2019.01.31 13:00 - Harari V - Happiness

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    Comparing version 18:02, 1 Feb 2019 by Bruce Mowbray? with version 18:05, 1 Feb 2019 by Bruce Mowbray?.

    ...

    Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
    Eliza Madrigal: Aloha, Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aloha!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Lovely dress!
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you, inspired by the Chrysler building
    Eliza Madrigal: but you look much cozier :)
    Eliza Madrigal: keeping snugly inside, away from freezing weather?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Darn polar vortex
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's just warm and rainy here...
    Eliza Madrigal: Is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: Even here it is rather cool, although dreary too
    Aphrodite Macbain: Typical of west coast weather
    Aphrodite Macbain: I've just come back from my optometrist - Things are improving
    Eliza Madrigal: excellent news
    Aphrodite Macbain: and and I now am in the lineup for a knee replace emnt
    --BELL--1.00
    Eliza Madrigal: getting all the bells and whistles :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: 4-5 months!
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- bionic aph!
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Aphrodite Macbain: Soon I'll be able to leap tall buildings at a single bound
    Eliza Madrigal: very useful
    Aphrodite Macbain: or at least walk comfortably...
    Bruce Mowbray's current display-name is "Bruce".
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce!
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi APh! Hi Eliza!
    Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Agatha, Bleu :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, aggers!
    Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Aggers
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu
    Bruce Mowbray: NICE coat, Aph!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Did everyone see Tura's comment?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, she can
    Bruce Mowbray: cannot be here today.
    Agatha Macbeth: No
    Eliza Madrigal: Email?
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Aphrodite Macbain: OK Ill post it here
    Aphrodite Macbain: What is happiness? People try to measure it by asking people to rate their present happiness on a scale of 1 to 5, but what does that mean? Is my 5 the same as your 5? Is my 5 today the same as my 5 last year? Maybe people automatically fit the scale to their general experience, and the "hedonic setpoint" (happiness returning to the same level after a change in circumstances for better or worse) is a myth? How "happy" am I right now? I really can't connect with this scale of 1 to 5. I mean, I'm quite well off, I have the leisure to take a trip to Lithuania to go to a concert of music on Armenian folk instruments, and right now I'm sitting on the train to the airport. On the other hand, that means I'll miss today's reading session again. Socrates said that it is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied. I think it's also better to be Socrates dissatisfied than Socrates satisfied. If "happiness" means anything to me, I'd describe it as the ongoing achievement of meaningful goals, like a
    Aphrodite Macbain: mountaineering expedition where every peak climbed reveals new peaks yet to climb, rather than some placid state of contentment. -- Tura
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd describe it as the ongoing achievement of meaningful goals, like a mountaineering expedition where every peak climbed reveals new peaks yet to climb, rather than some placid state of contentment.

    Bruce Mowbray: Beautiful statement.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes
    Bleu Oleander: hard to disagree with that!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nicely constructed argument (thanks, Tura and safe travels!)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I love this: Socrates said that it is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied. I think it's also better to be Socrates dissatisfied than Socrates satisfied.
    Bruce Mowbray: Sounds to me like Tura feels she is more than a lot of data bits.
    Agatha Macbeth: She probably is
    Aphrodite Macbain: I would imagine she is
    Eliza Madrigal: so Socrates is the measure of his own happiness and he judges it as the right one ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think that could be applied to all of us
    Bruce Mowbray: How many chocolate bars can one eat before even chocolate becomes unappealing ?
    Agatha Macbeth: 42
    Bruce Mowbray: Yeppers.
    Bruce Mowbray: That exact number.
    Aphrodite Macbain: But I am aware that once I have acheived a goal or obtained somehting I REALLY needed, I want more
    Aphrodite Macbain: Strivig iss good? Or is sit?
    Bruce Mowbray: but not more chocolate bars. . . . there is a shift in one's "goal" once one becomes saturated.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is it.
    Agatha Macbeth: It iss
    Bruce Mowbray: one's goal* Aphrodite Macbain: right Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: one could also try lots of different kinds of chocolate bars
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd settle for contentment over happiness
    Bruce Mowbray ponders diversity in chocolate bars.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Milk, plain, white
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders what it is about chocolate...
    Bleu Oleander: its probably fair to say that we all have a different version of what happiness is
    Bruce Mowbray: I suspect that I am continually requiring all sorts of stimulation -- or maybe it's just difference that I crave....
    Bruce Mowbray: something new.
    Bruce Mowbray: Like, today I played with my microscope.
    Bruce Mowbray: and wanted to increase magnification...
    Bruce Mowbray: or else changing the subject matter.....
    Aphrodite Macbain: I like Harari's suggestion that happiness- long term happiness - relates to our connection with community and with conquering new challenges
    Bruce Mowbray: and this kept me occupied and interested for about six hours...
    Bruce Mowbray: on a very cold day, inside my bedroom.
    Eliza Madrigal: nice, Bruce :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: were you any happier afterwards?
    Bleu Oleander: Harari: happiness depends on our expectations
    Bruce Mowbray: But Harari does not tell us what "community" means...
    Bruce Mowbray: I was happier, yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: feeling of time well spent/enjoyed
    Eliza Madrigal: rising to occasion
    Bruce Mowbray: Bleu is right, but it also depends on our openness to new experiences.
    Aphrodite Macbain: .all those experiences that pressour well-being buttons
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- openness requires a bit of courage
    Aphrodite Macbain: so it's a sort of loop
    Bruce Mowbray: New experiences can be disruptive - as Harari says - but they can also be exhilarating.
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I'm rather easily contented, but I could be a high maintenance who thinks she is low maintenance, as in When Harry Met Sally
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    --BELL--1.15
    Bruce Mowbray makes note to pirate that movie and watch it.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow
    Agatha Macbeth splutters
    Agatha Macbeth: Arr me bucko
    Bruce Mowbray: ARRRRR!
    Aphrodite Macbain: I was most struck by his comment about the correlation of happiness with connection with community. It seems to be one of his key answers to our well-being.
    Eliza Madrigal recommends the Mr. Rogers documentary, to feel wholesome and happy for a while
    Bruce Mowbray: No problem. Leave it in.
    Aphrodite Macbain: FOr long-term happiness
    Bruce Mowbray makes note to find and download Mr. Rogers doc.
    Aphrodite Macbain: What makes you happy?
    Bruce Mowbray: I make me happy.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Who else could possibly do that -- if I were determined to be unhappy?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think Harari is right, regarding connection... but it also opens a whole nother can of worms
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: which can?
    Agatha Macbeth: Worms can
    Aphrodite Macbain: ugh
    Bruce Mowbray: I dropped out of the only RL community I belonged to --- this weekend.
    Eliza Madrigal: connection within the context of meaning
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh Bruce , how hard
    Aphrodite Macbain: say more ELiza?
    Bruce Mowbray: NOOOOO!
    Bruce Mowbray: Easy!
    Aphrodite Macbain: It was too cold to get there, no?
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Bruce Mowbray: That community has changed ---- or else I have changed ---- and that community no longer meets my "happiness" needs.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it was very cold, but no matter.
    Bruce Mowbray: Been part of it since 1993. 1993Bruce Mowbray: (my men's group)
    Agatha Macbeth: Happiness is a changeable commodity then
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh yes
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, happiness is both changeable and circular.
    Bruce Mowbray: Remember Donovan?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Bruce Mowbray: "Happiness Moves in a Circular Motion"
    Agatha Macbeth: Hurdy gurdy man
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: just a sec....
    Bruce Mowbray: brb.
    Agatha Macbeth: The squirrels got him
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Druth
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya druth
    Bleu Oleander: hi druth
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth
    Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cGWTAe3M6U
    druth Vlodovic: Hey guys
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, druth!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie
    Agatha Macbeth: And hello Steve
    Bleu Oleander: hey steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, steve.
    Agatha Macbeth: A rare visitor
    druth Vlodovic: Hey Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: saw the topic, seemed appropriate
    Bruce Mowbray: Are you happy, Steve?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Stevenaia - gtsy!
    Aphrodite Macbain: What makes you happy and does it last?
    Bruce Mowbray: "You can have everything if you let yourself be."
    Aphrodite Macbain: Does he say that?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, over and over and over.
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    druth Vlodovic: That would be "contentment"
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! Excellent point, druth!
    stevenaia Michinaga: <=== always happy
    Eliza Madrigal: I think if you can find what you're doing in the context of a larger meaning, whether wonder and awe, or kindness, or benefit to family/world in a practical sense, and keep in touch with that, it makes it possible to ride the inevitable tides
    Bruce Mowbray nods. Tides are inevitabe.
    Eliza Madrigal: but if you lose that connection, it is hard to find trust and stay open
    Aphrodite Macbain: I agree Eliza?
    Bruce Mowbray: inevitable*
    Eliza Madrigal: so feeding things to keep sight of the connection seems important
    Bruce Mowbray: Contentment implies "enough." Whereas, "happiness" might be a constant quest for more.
    Aphrodite Macbain: For me happiness is short, brief; wereas contentment lasts
    Bruce Mowbray: Now, can AI make me happy?
    Eliza Madrigal: one of the things I liked about the Mr. Rogers doc is that his baseline was "you're likeable", "you're enough"
    Eliza Madrigal: that kids needed a strong foundation of acceptance
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure how AI would give that :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that was one of Mr. Rogers' continuing message to children. . . . "Woin't you be my neighbor?"
    stevenaia Michinaga: Happy is acceptance (of yourself and others)
    Aphrodite Macbain: AI is a means to a n infinity of possible ends. Some may make me happy.
    --BELL--1.30

    ...

    Version from 18:02, 1 Feb 2019

    This revision modified by Bruce Mowbray? (Ban)

    ...

    Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
    Eliza Madrigal: Aloha, Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aloha!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Lovely dress!
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you, inspired by the Chrysler building
    Eliza Madrigal: but you look much cozier :)
    Eliza Madrigal: keeping snugly inside, away from freezing weather?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Darn polar vortex
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's just warm and rainy here...
    Eliza Madrigal: Is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: Even here it is rather cool, although dreary too
    Aphrodite Macbain: Typical of west coast weather
    Aphrodite Macbain: I've just come back from my optometrist - Things are improving
    Eliza Madrigal: excellent news
    Aphrodite Macbain: and and I now am in the lineup for a knee replace emnt
    --BELL--1.00
    Eliza Madrigal: getting all the bells and whistles :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: 4-5 months!
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- bionic aph!
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Aphrodite Macbain: Soon I'll be able to leap tall buildings at a single bound
    Eliza Madrigal: very useful
    Aphrodite Macbain: or at least walk comfortably...
    Bruce Mowbray's current display-name is "Bruce".
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce!
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi APh! Hi Eliza!
    Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Agatha, Bleu :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, aggers!
    Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Aggers
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu
    Bruce Mowbray: NICE coat, Aph!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Did everyone see Tura's comment?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, she can
    Bruce Mowbray: cannot be here today.
    Agatha Macbeth: No
    Eliza Madrigal: Email?
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Aphrodite Macbain: OK Ill post it here
    Aphrodite Macbain: What is happiness? People try to measure it by asking people to rate their present happiness on a scale of 1 to 5, but what does that mean? Is my 5 the same as your 5? Is my 5 today the same as my 5 last year? Maybe people automatically fit the scale to their general experience, and the "hedonic setpoint" (happiness returning to the same level after a change in circumstances for better or worse) is a myth? How "happy" am I right now? I really can't connect with this scale of 1 to 5. I mean, I'm quite well off, I have the leisure to take a trip to Lithuania to go to a concert of music on Armenian folk instruments, and right now I'm sitting on the train to the airport. On the other hand, that means I'll miss today's reading session again. Socrates said that it is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied. I think it's also better to be Socrates dissatisfied than Socrates satisfied. If "happiness" means anything to me, I'd describe it as the ongoing achievement of meaningful goals, like a
    Aphrodite Macbain: mountaineering expedition where every peak climbed reveals new peaks yet to climb, rather than some placid state of contentment. -- Tura
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd describe it as the ongoing achievement of meaningful goals, like a mountaineering expedition where every peak climbed reveals new peaks yet to climb, rather than some placid state of contentment.

    Bruce Mowbray: Beautiful statement.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes
    Bleu Oleander: hard to disagree with that!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nicely constructed argument (thanks, Tura and safe travels!)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I love this: Socrates said that it is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied. I think it's also better to be Socrates dissatisfied than Socrates satisfied.
    Bruce Mowbray: Sounds to me like Tura feels she is more than a lot of data bits.
    Agatha Macbeth: She probably is
    Aphrodite Macbain: I would imagine she is
    Eliza Madrigal: so Socrates is the measure of his own happiness and he judges it as the right one ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think that could be applied to all of us
    Bruce Mowbray: How many chocolate bars can one eat before even chocolate becomes unappealing ?
    Agatha Macbeth: 42
    Bruce Mowbray: Yeppers.
    Bruce Mowbray: That exact number.
    Aphrodite Macbain: But I am aware that once I have acheived a goal or obtained somehting I REALLY needed, I want more
    Aphrodite Macbain: Strivig iss good? Or is sit?
    Bruce Mowbray: but not more chocolate bars. . . . there is a shift in one's "goal" once one becomes saturated.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is it.
    Agatha Macbeth: It iss
    Bruce Mowbray: one's goal*
    Aphrodite Macbain: right Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: one could also try lots of different kinds of chocolate bars
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd settle for contentment over happiness
    Bruce Mowbray ponders diversity in chocolate bars.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Milk, plain, white
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders what it is about chocolate...
    Bleu Oleander: its probably fair to say that we all have a different version of what happiness is
    Bruce Mowbray: I suspect that I am continually requiring all sorts of stimulation -- or maybe it's just difference that I crave....
    Bruce Mowbray: something new.
    Bruce Mowbray: Like, today I played with my microscope.
    Bruce Mowbray: and wanted to increase magnification...
    Bruce Mowbray: or else changing the subject matter.....
    Aphrodite Macbain: I like Harari's suggestion that happiness- long term happiness - relates to our connection with community and with conquering new challenges
    Bruce Mowbray: and this kept me occupied and interested for about six hours...
    Bruce Mowbray: on a very cold day, inside my bedroom.
    Eliza Madrigal: nice, Bruce :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: were you any happier afterwards?
    Bleu Oleander: Harari: happiness depends on our expectations
    Bruce Mowbray: But Harari does not tell us what "community" means...
    Bruce Mowbray: I was happier, yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: feeling of time well spent/enjoyed
    Eliza Madrigal: rising to occasion
    Bruce Mowbray: Bleu is right, but it also depends on our openness to new experiences.
    Aphrodite Macbain: .all those experiences that pressour well-being buttons
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- openness requires a bit of courage
    Aphrodite Macbain: so it's a sort of loop
    Bruce Mowbray: New experiences can be disruptive - as Harari says - but they can also be exhilarating.
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I'm rather easily contented, but I could be a high maintenance who thinks she is low maintenance, as in When Harry Met Sally
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    --BELL--1.15
    Bruce Mowbray makes note to pirate that movie and watch it.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow
    Agatha Macbeth splutters
    Agatha Macbeth: Arr me bucko
    Bruce Mowbray: ARRRRR!
    Aphrodite Macbain: I was most struck by his comment about the correlation of happiness with connection with community. It seems to be one of his key answers to our well-being.
    Eliza Madrigal recommends the Mr. Rogers documentary, to feel wholesome and happy for a while
    Bruce Mowbray: No problem. Leave it in.
    Aphrodite Macbain: FOr long-term happiness
    Bruce Mowbray makes note to find and download Mr. Rogers doc.
    Aphrodite Macbain: What makes you happy?
    Bruce Mowbray: I make me happy.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Who else could possibly do that -- if I were determined to be unhappy?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think Harari is right, regarding connection... but it also opens a whole nother can of worms
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: which can?
    Agatha Macbeth: Worms can
    Aphrodite Macbain: ugh
    Bruce Mowbray: I dropped out of the only RL community I belonged to --- this weekend.
    Eliza Madrigal: connection within the context of meaning
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh Bruce , how hard
    Aphrodite Macbain: say more ELiza?
    Bruce Mowbray: NOOOOO!
    Bruce Mowbray: Easy!
    Aphrodite Macbain: It was too cold to get there, no?
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Bruce Mowbray: That community has changed ---- or else I have changed ---- and that community no longer meets my "happiness" needs.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it was very cold, but no matter.
    Bruce Mowbray: Been part of it since 1993.
    Bruce Mowbray: (my men's group)
    Agatha Macbeth: Happiness is a changeable commodity then
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh yes
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, happiness is both changeable and circular.
    Bruce Mowbray: Remember Donovan?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Bruce Mowbray: "Happiness Moves in a Circular Motion"
    Agatha Macbeth: Hurdy gurdy man
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: just a sec....
    Bruce Mowbray: brb.
    Agatha Macbeth: The squirrels got him
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Druth
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya druth
    Bleu Oleander: hi druth
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth
    Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cGWTAe3M6U
    druth Vlodovic: Hey guys
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, druth!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie
    Agatha Macbeth: And hello Steve
    Bleu Oleander: hey steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, steve.
    Agatha Macbeth: A rare visitor
    druth Vlodovic: Hey Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: saw the topic, seemed appropriate
    Bruce Mowbray: Are you happy, Steve?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Stevenaia - gtsy!
    Aphrodite Macbain: What makes you happy and does it last?
    Bruce Mowbray: "You can have everything if you let yourself be."
    Aphrodite Macbain: Does he say that?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, over and over and over.
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    druth Vlodovic: That would be "contentment"
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! Excellent point, druth!
    stevenaia Michinaga: <=== always happy
    Eliza Madrigal: I think if you can find what you're doing in the context of a larger meaning, whether wonder and awe, or kindness, or benefit to family/world in a practical sense, and keep in touch with that, it makes it possible to ride the inevitable tides
    Bruce Mowbray nods. Tides are inevitabe.
    Eliza Madrigal: but if you lose that connection, it is hard to find trust and stay open
    Aphrodite Macbain: I agree Eliza?
    Bruce Mowbray: inevitable*
    Eliza Madrigal: so feeding things to keep sight of the connection seems important
    Bruce Mowbray: Contentment implies "enough." Whereas, "happiness" might be a constant quest for more.
    Aphrodite Macbain: For me happiness is short, brief; wereas contentment lasts
    Bruce Mowbray: Now, can AI make me happy?
    Eliza Madrigal: one of the things I liked about the Mr. Rogers doc is that his baseline was "you're likeable", "you're enough"
    Eliza Madrigal: that kids needed a strong foundation of acceptance
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure how AI would give that :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that was one of Mr. Rogers' continuing message to children. . . . "Woin't you be my neighbor?"
    stevenaia Michinaga: Happy is acceptance (of yourself and others)
    Aphrodite Macbain: AI is a means to a n infinity of possible ends. Some may make me happy.
    --BELL--1.30

    ...

    Version as of 18:05, 1 Feb 2019

    This revision modified by Bruce Mowbray? (Ban)

    ...

    Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
    Eliza Madrigal: Aloha, Aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aloha!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Lovely dress!
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you, inspired by the Chrysler building
    Eliza Madrigal: but you look much cozier :)
    Eliza Madrigal: keeping snugly inside, away from freezing weather?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Darn polar vortex
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's just warm and rainy here...
    Eliza Madrigal: Is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: Even here it is rather cool, although dreary too
    Aphrodite Macbain: Typical of west coast weather
    Aphrodite Macbain: I've just come back from my optometrist - Things are improving
    Eliza Madrigal: excellent news
    Aphrodite Macbain: and and I now am in the lineup for a knee replace emnt
    --BELL--1.00
    Eliza Madrigal: getting all the bells and whistles :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: 4-5 months!
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- bionic aph!
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Aphrodite Macbain: Soon I'll be able to leap tall buildings at a single bound
    Eliza Madrigal: very useful
    Aphrodite Macbain: or at least walk comfortably...
    Bruce Mowbray's current display-name is "Bruce".
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce!
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi APh! Hi Eliza!
    Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Agatha, Bleu :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, aggers!
    Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Aggers
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu
    Bruce Mowbray: NICE coat, Aph!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Did everyone see Tura's comment?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, she can
    Bruce Mowbray: cannot be here today.
    Agatha Macbeth: No
    Eliza Madrigal: Email?
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Aphrodite Macbain: OK Ill post it here
    Aphrodite Macbain: What is happiness? People try to measure it by asking people to rate their present happiness on a scale of 1 to 5, but what does that mean? Is my 5 the same as your 5? Is my 5 today the same as my 5 last year? Maybe people automatically fit the scale to their general experience, and the "hedonic setpoint" (happiness returning to the same level after a change in circumstances for better or worse) is a myth? How "happy" am I right now? I really can't connect with this scale of 1 to 5. I mean, I'm quite well off, I have the leisure to take a trip to Lithuania to go to a concert of music on Armenian folk instruments, and right now I'm sitting on the train to the airport. On the other hand, that means I'll miss today's reading session again. Socrates said that it is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied. I think it's also better to be Socrates dissatisfied than Socrates satisfied. If "happiness" means anything to me, I'd describe it as the ongoing achievement of meaningful goals, like a
    Aphrodite Macbain: mountaineering expedition where every peak climbed reveals new peaks yet to climb, rather than some placid state of contentment. -- Tura
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd describe it as the ongoing achievement of meaningful goals, like a mountaineering expedition where every peak climbed reveals new peaks yet to climb, rather than some placid state of contentment.

    Bruce Mowbray: Beautiful statement.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes
    Bleu Oleander: hard to disagree with that!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nicely constructed argument (thanks, Tura and safe travels!)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I love this: Socrates said that it is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied. I think it's also better to be Socrates dissatisfied than Socrates satisfied.
    Bruce Mowbray: Sounds to me like Tura feels she is more than a lot of data bits.
    Agatha Macbeth: She probably is
    Aphrodite Macbain: I would imagine she is
    Eliza Madrigal: so Socrates is the measure of his own happiness and he judges it as the right one ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think that could be applied to all of us
    Bruce Mowbray: How many chocolate bars can one eat before even chocolate becomes unappealing ?
    Agatha Macbeth: 42
    Bruce Mowbray: Yeppers.
    Bruce Mowbray: That exact number.
    Aphrodite Macbain: But I am aware that once I have acheived a goal or obtained somehting I REALLY needed, I want more
    Aphrodite Macbain: Strivig iss good? Or is sit?
    Bruce Mowbray: but not more chocolate bars. . . . there is a shift in one's "goal" once one becomes saturated.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is it.
    Agatha Macbeth: It iss
    Aphrodite Macbain: right Bruce
    Eliza Madrigal: one could also try lots of different kinds of chocolate bars
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd settle for contentment over happiness
    Bruce Mowbray ponders diversity in chocolate bars.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Milk, plain, white
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders what it is about chocolate...
    Bleu Oleander: its probably fair to say that we all have a different version of what happiness is
    Bruce Mowbray: I suspect that I am continually requiring all sorts of stimulation -- or maybe it's just difference that I crave....
    Bruce Mowbray: something new.
    Bruce Mowbray: Like, today I played with my microscope.
    Bruce Mowbray: and wanted to increase magnification...
    Bruce Mowbray: or else changing the subject matter.....
    Aphrodite Macbain: I like Harari's suggestion that happiness- long term happiness - relates to our connection with community and with conquering new challenges
    Bruce Mowbray: and this kept me occupied and interested for about six hours...
    Bruce Mowbray: on a very cold day, inside my bedroom.
    Eliza Madrigal: nice, Bruce :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: were you any happier afterwards?
    Bleu Oleander: Harari: happiness depends on our expectations
    Bruce Mowbray: But Harari does not tell us what "community" means...
    Bruce Mowbray: I was happier, yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: feeling of time well spent/enjoyed
    Eliza Madrigal: rising to occasion
    Bruce Mowbray: Bleu is right, but it also depends on our openness to new experiences.
    Aphrodite Macbain: .all those experiences that pressour well-being buttons
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- openness requires a bit of courage
    Aphrodite Macbain: so it's a sort of loop
    Bruce Mowbray: New experiences can be disruptive - as Harari says - but they can also be exhilarating.
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I'm rather easily contented, but I could be a high maintenance who thinks she is low maintenance, as in When Harry Met Sally
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    --BELL--1.15
    Bruce Mowbray makes note to pirate that movie and watch it.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow
    Agatha Macbeth splutters
    Agatha Macbeth: Arr me bucko
    Bruce Mowbray: ARRRRR!
    Aphrodite Macbain: I was most struck by his comment about the correlation of happiness with connection with community. It seems to be one of his key answers to our well-being.
    Eliza Madrigal recommends the Mr. Rogers documentary, to feel wholesome and happy for a while
    Bruce Mowbray: No problem. Leave it in.
    Aphrodite Macbain: FOr long-term happiness
    Bruce Mowbray makes note to find and download Mr. Rogers doc.
    Aphrodite Macbain: What makes you happy?
    Bruce Mowbray: I make me happy.
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Who else could possibly do that -- if I were determined to be unhappy?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think Harari is right, regarding connection... but it also opens a whole nother can of worms
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: which can?
    Agatha Macbeth: Worms can
    Aphrodite Macbain: ugh
    Bruce Mowbray: I dropped out of the only RL community I belonged to --- this weekend.
    Eliza Madrigal: connection within the context of meaning
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh Bruce, how hard
    Aphrodite Macbain: say more ELiza?
    Bruce Mowbray: NOOOOO!
    Bruce Mowbray: Easy!
    Aphrodite Macbain: It was too cold to get there, no?
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Bruce Mowbray: That community has changed ---- or else I have changed ---- and that community no longer meets my "happiness" needs.
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it was very cold, but no matter.
    Bruce Mowbray: Been part of it since 1993 (my men's group)
    Agatha Macbeth: Happiness is a changeable commodity then
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh yes
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, happiness is both changeable and circular.
    Bruce Mowbray: Remember Donovan?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
    Bruce Mowbray: "Happiness Moves in a Circular Motion"
    Agatha Macbeth: Hurdy gurdy man
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: just a sec....
    Bruce Mowbray: brb.
    Agatha Macbeth: The squirrels got him
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Druth
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya druth
    Bleu Oleander: hi druth
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth
    Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cGWTAe3M6U
    druth Vlodovic: Hey guys
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, druth!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie
    Agatha Macbeth: And hello Steve
    Bleu Oleander: hey steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, steve.
    Agatha Macbeth: A rare visitor
    druth Vlodovic: Hey Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: saw the topic, seemed appropriate
    Bruce Mowbray: Are you happy, Steve?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Stevenaia - gtsy!
    Aphrodite Macbain: What makes you happy and does it last?
    Bruce Mowbray: "You can have everything if you let yourself be."
    Aphrodite Macbain: Does he say that?
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, over and over and over.
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    druth Vlodovic: That would be "contentment"
    Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh! Excellent point, druth!
    stevenaia Michinaga: <=== always happy
    Eliza Madrigal: I think if you can find what you're doing in the context of a larger meaning, whether wonder and awe, or kindness, or benefit to family/world in a practical sense, and keep in touch with that, it makes it possible to ride the inevitable tides
    Bruce Mowbray nods. Tides are inevitabe.
    Eliza Madrigal: but if you lose that connection, it is hard to find trust and stay open
    Aphrodite Macbain: I agree Eliza?
    Bruce Mowbray: inevitable*
    Eliza Madrigal: so feeding things to keep sight of the connection seems important
    Bruce Mowbray: Contentment implies "enough." Whereas, "happiness" might be a constant quest for more.
    Aphrodite Macbain: For me happiness is short, brief; wereas contentment lasts
    Bruce Mowbray: Now, can AI make me happy?
    Eliza Madrigal: one of the things I liked about the Mr. Rogers doc is that his baseline was "you're likeable", "you're enough"
    Eliza Madrigal: that kids needed a strong foundation of acceptance
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure how AI would give that :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that was one of Mr. Rogers' continuing message to children. . . . "Woin't you be my neighbor?"
    stevenaia Michinaga: Happy is acceptance (of yourself and others)
    Aphrodite Macbain: AI is a means to a n infinity of possible ends. Some may make me happy.
    --BELL--1.30

    ...

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