2019.01.31 13:00 - Harari V - Happiness

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    Comparing version 22:14, 31 Jan 2019 by Agatha MacBeth? with version 22:18, 31 Jan 2019 by Agatha MacBeth?.

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    The Guardian for this meeting were Aph and Bruce. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.

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    maggieemay Resident: 's current display-name is "Maggie ".
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Maggie.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maggie!
    Agatha Macbeth: G'day Mag
    stevenaia Michinaga: Come site
    stevenaia Michinaga: sit
    Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Maggie. We're discussing happiness and artificial intelligence.
    Bleu Oleander: hi Maggie
    druth Vlodovic: Hi Maggie
    Bruce Mowbray: Our chat logs are posted online, so let us know if that's OK with you, please.

    Maggie may...or may not

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    Version from 22:14, 31 Jan 2019

    This revision modified by Agatha MacBeth? (Ban)

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    The Guardian for this meeting were Aph and Bruce. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.

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                     2.jpg
    Bruce Mowbray: And Harari says that bio-monitoring, etc., etc., etc., can find what makes us happy. . . and can bring us more of those things. . . and then we'll be happier. I do NOT buy it.
    Aphrodite Macbain: wont you be my neighbour hints at the importance of society and others in one's life. Acceptance from one's community
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it surely does, Aph.
    Eliza Madrigal nods, trust and safety
    Aphrodite Macbain: Why dont you buy it Bruce?
    Agatha Macbeth: Too expensive?
    druth Vlodovic: lol, the last 15 seconds of silence was done to the song "I want to paint it black"
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, it's not a matter of quantities for one thing.
    Eliza Madrigal: lots of things have made life more convenient, but that doesn't necessarily mean more satisfying
    Bruce Mowbray: Ha ha -- (to druth).
    druth Vlodovic: I think it is important to recognize that "happy" is a general term with many sub meanings
    Agatha Macbeth: Hehe (to Bruce)
    Bruce Mowbray: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: no having lots does not mean having more happiness.
    Bruce Mowbray: Right!
    Agatha Macbeth: It can mean the opposite
    Aphrodite Macbain: But having a sense of accomplishment, or feeling one has value brings contentment
    druth Vlodovic: "If money can't buy you happiness then you don't have enough of it."
    druth Vlodovic: "accomplishment" is briefer but in some ways soaks into one's character more
    Aphrodite Macbain: heh
    Aphrodite Macbain: gimmme gimme gimme
    Bruce Mowbray: Can bio-monitoring actually detect happiness? Or, for that matter, can monitoring of my monetary wealth?
    Aphrodite Macbain: remembers the video "what about me?"
    Aphrodite Macbain: It did for that French monk Bruce
    Agatha Macbeth: St Bernard?
    Bruce Mowbray: Thich Naht Hanh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: We have pleasure centres in our brain that can be observed when they light up in the MRI
    Aphrodite Macbain: No He was French from France- caucasian
    Bruce Mowbray: Please does NOT equal happiness.
    Eliza Madrigal: there is also the stereotype of the sad clown... reread the other day, the Robin Williams quote that often people who seem the happiest, always wearing smiles, are in touch with deep suffering and don't want anyone else to feel that
    Aphrodite Macbain: please?
    Bruce Mowbray: That's the shole chocolate bar thing again.
    Bruce Mowbray: whole*
    maggieemay Resident: 's current display-name is "Maggie ".
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Maggie.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maggie!
    Agatha Macbeth: G'day Mag
    stevenaia Michinaga: Come site
    stevenaia Michinaga: sit
    Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Maggie. We're discussing happiness and artificial intelligence.
    Bleu Oleander: hi Maggie
    druth Vlodovic: Hi Maggie
    Bruce Mowbray: Our chat logs are posted online, so let us know if that's OK with you, please.
    druth Vlodovic: I think depression and happiness go together like striving and skill
    Bruce Mowbray: Please say more, druth.
    druth Vlodovic: depressives either fail or work hard to overcome, so they become good at the skills of observation and compensation
    Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
    Bruce Mowbray: So, like those "tides" Eliza was talking about.....
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Aphrodite Macbain: French Buddhist monk - Matthieu Ricard, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthieu_Ricard
    Aphrodite Macbain: He is the person I was talking about
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Aphrodite Macbain: He was able to meditate and become happy
    druth Vlodovic: He has spent a total of 5 years in solitary meditation, largely in a remote mountain hut.[20]
    druth Vlodovic: Lucky bastard
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: and I would be miserable
    Bruce Mowbray ponders being "the happiest person in the world."
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd be talking to the mountain goats
    Aphrodite Macbain: Baaaaa
    Agatha Macbeth: Didn't any mormons visit him then?
    Eliza Madrigal: many of these monks go away for a time, and find that they no longer need all the things they may have believed they needed, but then they come back :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: lol probably
    Aphrodite Macbain: They need people
    druth Vlodovic: speaking fluent goat
    Eliza Madrigal: re-entry isn't so easy for some of them, but some retain the memory of joy I think
    Bruce Mowbray hums "I talk to the trees, but they don't listen to me..."
    Bleu Oleander: I don't think spending 5 years in solitary meditation in a remote hut would make me happy ... maybe not matched to my expectations
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Eliza- just having that memory would be valuable
    Eliza Madrigal: it is something I'd do, if life allowed, so far it hasn't :)
    Bruce Mowbray also hums "People who need people are the luckiest people in the world..."
    Aphrodite Macbain: It just goes to show that each of us has their own separate needs
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bruce Mowbray: I think my typist needs trees and goats more than he needs people.
    Eliza Madrigal: I need people, but I often feel I'm not really connecting
    Agatha Macbeth: And squirrels
    Aphrodite Macbain: Me too Eliza!
    Bruce Mowbray: YES! and squirrels!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Squirrels can help you find your nuts
    Bruce Mowbray: hahahahahahahaha
    Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
    Aphrodite Macbain: :D
    Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
    Aphrodite Macbain: smirks
    Agatha Macbeth dies from laughing....
    Eliza Madrigal: so there is a kind of depth of personal openness I think it would be worth going toward/cultivating, which might open those doors with others, deeper listening, etc. It is just a theory though
    Bruce Mowbray: Did you know that the average squirrel can retrieve 70% of the nuts it has hidden?
    Aphrodite Macbain: picks Aggers and Bruce up from the floor
    Agatha Macbeth: Grazie
    Aphrodite Macbain: shakes them
    Aphrodite Macbain: and puts them back on their pillows
    Agatha Macbeth: Zzzz
    Aphrodite Macbain: Deeper listening would do the whole world good
    Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps happiness has something to do with contrasts -- and relativity. . . .
    Aphrodite Macbain: especially politicians
    Agatha Macbeth: Einstein?
    Aphrodite Macbain: say more Bruce?
    Eliza Madrigal: don't you feel most trusting of others when you are deeply connected with openness in yourself? It is like a confidence
    --BELL--1.45
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods
    Bruce Mowbray: I knew men in a state prison doing life sentences.... for whom even mild contrats could produce happiness.
    Aphrodite Macbain: or when someone "really" hears you
    Bruce Mowbray: contrasts*
    Aphrodite Macbain: we need deeper connections rather than more of them
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm. I would agree with that, Aph.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ricard was meditating on compassion when his brain lit up
    druth Vlodovic: "People today have many more friends, but hoy many of those could you stay with for a week if you lost your house?"
    Eliza Madrigal: :) but not sure one can will it... can mostly cultivate the capacity in oneself?
    Bruce Mowbray: "Deeper" does not necessarily mean more "intense."
    Aphrodite Macbain: so thinking of others makes you happier? Like Tonglen?
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, thinking of others can take you mind out of the loops of self-worry.
    Eliza Madrigal nods Druth... how many could you even tell
    Bruce Mowbray: your*
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods- we look outwards, beyond our own needs
    Aphrodite Macbain: I find it's the best way for me to cure depression
    Aphrodite Macbain: getting involved in the world outside myself
    Eliza Madrigal: cosmos cures all
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Or painting
    Aphrodite Macbain: or digging in the garden
    Eliza Madrigal: that's big for me too... getting hands dirty in some way
    Bruce Mowbray: Whatever "needs" you feel that you have, there are thousand of people in the world with those same needs -- and far more than those.... so bringing them to mind with Tong-len will make you less concerned for your own needs.
    Aphrodite Macbain: or going on a protest march?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: well said
    Bruce Mowbray remembers all of those protest marches in Berkeley in the 1960's.
    Eliza Madrigal: what did you think of the orthodox community he described?
    Aphrodite Macbain: or in MOntreal :)
    Eliza Madrigal: we touched on it last week a little
    druth Vlodovic: to be meaningful
    Bruce Mowbray: Amazing to me that Israel supports them.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes that was interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: it seems their culture respects/ascribes dignity
    Bruce Mowbray: average number of children per Orthodox family is SEVEN!
    Aphrodite Macbain: they worry more about the state of the world that their own worldly possessions
    Aphrodite Macbain: they need litle
    Aphrodite Macbain: also little
    Agatha Macbeth: Probably don't have time
    Aphrodite Macbain: they pray most of the time
    Bruce Mowbray: I feel grateful to monks all over the world who are in regular prayer.
    Bruce Mowbray: I did not realize that until I visited a few monasteries.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I might get bored. A repetitive way of life would kill my energy
    Bruce Mowbray: Right, Aph. I need change.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I dont know how they can do so few things!
    Bleu Oleander: the quest for meaning and community, not so much which community ... just one where you can find meaning ... I think that it was just one example -- Orthodox Jews that he gave
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes Bleu
    Bruce Mowbray nods.
    Aphrodite Macbain: community keeps popping up all the time.
    Eliza Madrigal: so there are things to see in the example, about valuing more than earning potential
    Aphrodite Macbain: But there are those like Bruce and druth who really value solitude...
    Bleu Oleander: even this community, PaB, provides some meaning to many who participate
    Aphrodite Macbain: I agree Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I value solitude more than I value community.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder what we've collectively learned from PaB in terms of community... anything that could benefit the larger world?
    Aphrodite Macbain: But we are all social creatures, so we usually make efforts to occasionally connect with others
    Bruce Mowbray: Likewise, I would give up both power and love to have freedom.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Good question Eliza
    Bruce Mowbray ponders whether learning is a collective phenomenon.
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think I have learned that we have more in common than we have differences
    druth Vlodovic: I think people need to individually value life, this will bring the best benefit to the world
    Aphrodite Macbain: Or perhaps we select the communities we want to be part of
    Aphrodite Macbain: nods at druth
    stevenaia Michinaga: or.. communities select us
    Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, everyone. I need to run off to a meditation session now. Thanks for leading today, Aph.
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
    Eliza Madrigal: worth of living "examined life" perhaps too
    Bleu Oleander: bye Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for coming Bruce
    Agatha Macbeth: Happy scrapings Brucie
    Aphrodite Macbain: Take care and happy meditating!
    druth Vlodovic: lol, imaginging him running to a meditation session, welcome to the modern world
    Aphrodite Macbain: heh
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: In SL I think druth
    Aphrodite Macbain: It's easy to run
    Aphrodite Macbain: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Except when laggy
    stevenaia Michinaga: must go, thanks this was a treat,
    Eliza Madrigal: bye for now
    Bleu Oleander: bye steve
    Agatha Macbeth: Byee x
    druth Vlodovic: Bye Steve
    Bleu Oleander: must go too
    druth Vlodovic: etc
    Bleu Oleander: take care all
    Eliza Madrigal: etc. :)
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Bleu, thanks for links yesterday
    Bleu Oleander: til next time
    Eliza Madrigal: haven't had a chance to see them yet though
    Bleu Oleander: yw! Eliza
    Aphrodite Macbain: Next week (Feb 7) we discuss Februaryliberty and truth!!
    Eliza Madrigal: big topic :)
    Eliza Madrigal: another one
    Bleu Oleander: ok!
    --BELL--2.00
    Aphrodite Macbain: sort of!
    Agatha Macbeth ponders February liberty
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Bleu Oleander: bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: how about truth?
    druth Vlodovic: you only get the one month, so enjoy it
    Eliza Madrigal: hears School House Rock in her head... lovely lady liberty...
    Agatha Macbeth: How about it
    Eliza Madrigal: :) hah
    Eliza Madrigal: take care guys, bfn
    Eliza Madrigal: THANKS
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Eliza
    druth Vlodovic: cya
    Agatha Macbeth: Au revoir
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ciao bella

    Version as of 22:18, 31 Jan 2019

    This revision modified by Agatha MacBeth? (Ban)

    ...

    Maggie may...or may not

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