2008.06.12 07:00 - Rubble Rousing

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    That morning, I found Maxine and Gambhira already seated in the tea house, when I arrived. Adams would soon follow.

    Pema Pera: Hi Maxine, and hi Gambhira!
    Gambhira Skytower: hello
    Pema Pera: Glad to see you made it back quickly, Gambhira :)
    Gambhira Skytower: :)
    Pema Pera: Gambhira, what are your main interests, in SL, and/or in life in general?
    Gambhira Skytower: Buddhism, yoga, meditation
    Pema Pera: any particular form of Buddhism?
    Gambhira Skytower: I follow the Thai Forest Tradition of Theravada Buddhism
    Pema Pera: I have heard of that, but don’t know much about it — can you say a few words, to give us a flavor?
    Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
    Pema Pera: Nice o meet you here!
    Maxine Walden: hi, Adams
    Gambhira Skytower: Hi adams
    Adams Rubble: Hi everyone. I’m late
    Pema Pera: no problem, people come and go here all the time :)
    Pema Pera: Sorry about putting up your blog so quickly the other day . . .
    Pema Pera: I would have waited if I knew that it was not meant to be broadcasted yet
    Pema Pera: I just got the automatic pingback which led me to it (^_^)
    Pema Pera: but like Storm I really liked the raw reports — rare to see that

    I was refering to the blog Rubble Born Thoughts that Adams had put up recently, not realizing that a reference to my blog would result in an automatic signal to me, which then prompted me to make a link from the http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ blog to her blog.

    Adams Rubble: That’s Ok….just a bit of a shock at the time :)
    Pema Pera: I can imagine!
    Pema Pera: I would feel the same in your situation
    Pema Pera: so if you’re not totally happy with it, I will of course take the link of
    Adams Rubble: I’m Ok. We can talk about it :)
    Pema Pera: sure! Thanks
    Adams Rubble: I rewrote the personal part this morning which is one reason I’m late
    Pema Pera: I’ll have a look at it!
    Pema Pera: Adams, meet Gambhira, who visited us very recently
    Pema Pera: I just asked him to say a few words about his practice
    Gambhira Skytower: hi!
    Adams Rubble: Hello Gambhira :)
    Pema Pera: Thai Forest Tradition of Theravada Buddhism
    Gambhira Skytower: Well, the goal is to develop virtue, concentration, and discernment
    Pema Pera: through a type of Vipassana . . . or is that totally different?
    Gambhira Skytower: Vipassana and Samatha
    Pema Pera: wonderful!
    Adams Rubble: I do not know those terms
    Pema Pera: do you want to summarize them, Gambhira?
    Gambhira Skytower: insight and tranquility
    Pema Pera: watching the mind in action, calming the mind
    Pema Pera: two different approaches
    Gambhira Skytower: in this tradition it is said that they are done together
    Pema Pera: what is the actual form of practice, a kind of meditation?
    Gambhira Skytower: that is, in getting the mind to settle down, you gain some insight
    Gambhira Skytower: there are different objects to focus on, but breath is the most common
    Pema Pera: or also just watch any thought or emotion that arises?
    Gambhira Skytower: yes…

    I was very pleased that Gambhira had come back, to tell us more about his practice, after the brief first visit, the previous day. I have a deep respect for Theravavada approaches to practice, often very focused, no-nonse, direct.

    Pema Pera: all of that is perfectly compatible with the Pab, Play as Being practice
    Pema Pera: In itself, our approach is not specific to Buddhism
    Pema Pera: and in fact can be done by someone approaching it from a purely scientific or philosophical angle
    Pema Pera: but in practice, most people coming here seem to come in through Buddhism
    Gambhira Skytower: I would like to know how to do Pab
    Pema Pera: Hi Stargate!
    Stargate Tone: Hi all
    Adams Rubble: Hi Stargate
    Gambhira Skytower: hi stargate
    Maxine Walden: hi Stargate

    Stargate joined us, and I summarized PaB for Gambhira.

    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ has a brief introduction
    Pema Pera: did you get a chance to look at it?
    Gambhira Skytower: no
    Pema Pera: you can take your time, of course, afterwards, to read it
    Pema Pera: only a couple pages of instructions
    Gambhira Skytower: ok
    Pema Pera: the rest is lots and lots and lots of conversations :)
    Pema Pera: in a nut shell
    Pema Pera: the idea is that traditionally, you spent first several years of meditation
    Pema Pera: and then many more years to integrate what you have seen into daily life
    Pema Pera: the latter being the more difficult of the two
    Pema Pera: PaB is a rather crazy attempt to do something new for the modern mind :-)
    Pema Pera: it turns the order on its head
    Pema Pera: you start integrating before you have something to integrate
    Pema Pera: or in fact you take an absolutely minimal form of meditation
    Pema Pera: 9 seconds every 15 minutes, roughly
    Pema Pera: and whatever you find there, you immediately start integrating in life
    Pema Pera: you can’t help it: if you do it a few hours a day
    Pema Pera: and four times each hour
    Pema Pera: you can’t help but let it sink in
    Pema Pera: it is like walking in a fog
    Pema Pera: you can wet somehow

    And then reflected a bit on what has been happening here.

    Pema Pera: I started this on April 1, fool’s day
    Pema Pera: and to my delight and great surprise
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: many dozens of people have tried it and to their own surprise have gotten a lot more out of it than they and I expected
    Pema Pera: so there seems to be something to the idea . . . .
    Pema Pera: the combination
    Pema Pera: of four times an hour doing the practice yourself
    Pema Pera: and four times a day being able to talk here with friends
    Pema Pera: seems to be especially effective.
    Pema Pera: When you start you have no idea what you are doing
    Pema Pera: but whatever happens, within at most 6 hours you can get feedback here
    Pema Pera: wherever in the world you are, as long as you have an internet connection
    Pema Pera: It is a way to combine what traditionally was separate:
    Pema Pera: 1) monastic life
    Pema Pera: 2) lay practice
    Pema Pera: we have the intensity and continuity and availability of monastic life
    Pema Pera: and yet we can all continue with our own work and family
    Pema Pera: a truly novel gift of the internet . . . .

    Alas, it was time for me to leave, which was the reason I had spend more time than usual on a quick monologue . . .

    Pema Pera: sorry to talk so much :)
    Pema Pera: generally I prefer to listen
    Pema Pera: but this is the first time I met Adams, after having read her fascinating questions in the blog :)
    Pema Pera: and the first time to really be able to talk with you too Gambhira
    Pema Pera: and unfortunately, I have to leave in 2 or 3 minutes . . . .
    Pema Pera: next time I hope to hear more from both of you!
    Pema Pera: I’m here most of the time
    Pema Pera: except for the 1 pm meetings
    Pema Pera: I’m in Japan right now, and at that time it is 5 am here, so I’m asleep
    Pema Pera: and generally I stay here for an hour
    Pema Pera: it’s just that right now I have another meeting in another virtual world (Qwaq) . . . .
    Pema Pera: Gam, I’m really looking forward to hearing how your vipassana jibes with the 9-second explorations!
    Adams Rubble: This has been helpful. Much of what you just said is new to me
    Pema Pera: glad to hear I’m not repeating too much :)
    Pema Pera: I tried to address some of the concerns that I saw you bringing up in the previous sessions
    Pema Pera: through reading the blog
    Adams Rubble: Yes, I think you have done just that
    Pema Pera: sorry everybody, have to run now!
    Pema Pera: glad to hear that Adams!
    Pema Pera: Bye *, Max, Gam, Adams!
    Maxine Walden: as will I need to go, bye Pema
    Adams Rubble: bye
    Gambhira Skytower: bye Pema!
    Pema Pera: feel free to stay here, of course, as long as you like!
    Maxine Walden: and hope to see others very soon.

    Adams later kindly send me the chat log covering the rest of the meeting. The comments I added are mine. After Maxine and I had left, Adams, Gambhira and Stargate continued the conversation.

    Gambhira Skytower: are either of you buddhists?
    Stargate Tone: I do not represent any certain religion or culture
    Adams Rubble: I may on the way to becoming one
    Stargate Tone: about Buddhims I’m sad that people changes so much what Siddharta Gautama did teach
    Adams Rubble: Please explain
    Gambhira Skytower: I feel that way sometimes too
    Adams Rubble: The teaching is there for us to use as we can
    Stargate Tone: as he actually did ‘practice’ them two former incarnations, and found the truth of moderation in the incarnation as SG
    Adams Rubble: SG?
    Stargate Tone: but SG did teach that people should not have any other god but onesel, and also the
    Adams Rubble: oh
    Gambhira Skytower: Siddhartha Gotama
    Stargate Tone: Siddharta Gautama
    Adams Rubble: yes, thanks
    Stargate Tone: The most known Buddha
    Stargate Tone: sry; Siddharta Gautama is so close to me….use to speak about SG often that’s why
    Adams Rubble: That’s fine. I’m a bit thibk, that’s all. I would like to know more
    Adams Rubble: thick
    Stargate Tone: U shall know much much more
    Stargate Tone: You know why ?
    Adams Rubble: no
    Stargate Tone: becouse You want to :)*
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stargate Tone: …and do remember to let Your own heart to guide and keep You asking *
    Stargate Tone: as long as You have any kind of questions in Your mind *
    Stargate Tone: the most hard trap is that stop the asking

    Gambhira shared some background about Buddhist activities here in Rieul with Adams.

    Gambhira Skytower: Adams, there is a Buddhist monk that logs on sometimes here in SL, u might want to talk to him sometime
    Stargate Tone: but when U can know that You have got the answer ; The Truth
    Adams Rubble: I have met some zen monks, are there others?
    Stargate Tone: Do You know how You have found a piece of the Truth ?
    Adams Rubble: I am not sure, I expect I will feel content in some way
    Stargate Tone: You many times feel suprise; oh; this easy this was….
    Stargate Tone: but always You feel relief; grace and piece
    Stargate Tone: and dont have any questions left to THAT matter; You ‘just’ know
    Stargate Tone: but in case You get supporto to only opinion
    Stargate Tone: You feel hurry to go and tell that to others; and say; hear; that’s what I always said
    Stargate Tone: and feel exitement and so
    Stargate Tone: but findign the piece of the Truth, You ‘just know’ that You may share it one day with some other people
    Stargate Tone: and ‘let all be’ within peace and silence for a while *
    Stargate Tone: and soon You get hunger to find more *
    Stargate Tone: because You are honest *
    Gambhira Skytower: there is also a Theravada monk named kusaladharma demar

    Stargate spread her message.

    Stargate Tone: You take him to be higher than You ?
    Gambhira Skytower: i think so yes
    Adams Rubble: I have a question…
    Stargate Tone: well…in case he gives you even more that feeling , he’s not teaching what Buddha did teach
    Stargate Tone: but sure U need to look upon Urself at first, that U do not give that ‘platform’ to hime…
    Stargate Tone: can I hear the quesiton You have in Your mind ?
    Adams Rubble: Do you both of you find meditation to be a key “tool”
    Stargate Tone: I have never meditated ; yet; I found myself ‘ages ago’
    Stargate Tone: I never either seacrhed for anything; I’ve just ‘got’ all…
    Gambhira Skytower: i find meditation to be a tool in some sense
    Adams Rubble: I accept the path. I am having trouble living it
    Stargate Tone: then You surely do use it
    Stargate Tone: but dont let it to be the issue…that’s a trap
    Adams Rubble: I need something to keep me on the path
    Stargate Tone: You can do anytihing within Urself what U wanna do
    Stargate Tone: You can listen and see anything ever
    Stargate Tone: the key is Your own heart
    Stargate Tone: not meditation
    Stargate Tone: or anything else
    Gambhira Skytower: meditation should be getting to know your own heart
    Stargate Tone: not nesessarely
    Stargate Tone: You know why ?
    Gambhira Skytower: why?
    Stargate Tone: when You meditate, You kind of leave Your fears ‘behind’
    Adams Rubble: Is that bad?
    Stargate Tone: but when You are pondering; You can make differencies better that what You are ilistening; your heart or your fears
    Stargate Tone: to learn to truely listen to your heart, is not easy
    Stargate Tone: so many people hide there fears and sorrows with the help of meditation
    Stargate Tone: and do not ‘meet’ them
    Stargate Tone: as well so few people still do the most urgent question;
    Stargate Tone: this
    Stargate Tone: WHY
    Adams Rubble: I am finding this interesting but I am not sure I completely understand….
    Stargate Tone: You shall ‘get it’ :)***
    Adams Rubble: possibly because I do not know how to listen to my heart
    Stargate Tone: just remembering that there’s no other expert to Your life but Yourself
    Adams Rubble: My brain tells me the path is good
    Stargate Tone: the feeling in Your heart shacra
    Stargate Tone: is the answer *
    Adams Rubble: maybe I do not “feel” it
    Adams Rubble: Is feeling it the heart
    Stargate Tone: You can check evrything listening how the thought gives the feeling from Your chest
    Adams Rubble: is that what you mean?
    Adams Rubble: I did feel a feeling in my chest in one of the 9 second intervals
    Adams Rubble: but I stopped and looked in my brain and it was empty then
    Stargate Tone: to check things, is to ask from Yourself; give the thought to yourself and lisen how Your heart speaks
    Stargate Tone: to feel it
    Stargate Tone: the real thinking is ‘full body’ action
    Adams Rubble: Gambhira, is that what you use meditation to do?
    Stargate Tone: the spirit connection is the heart shacra
    Stargate Tone: but the information do rise from the spine
    Stargate Tone: from the lower back
    Stargate Tone: to brain
    Gambhira Skytower: I look at how my body feels yes…but another way I meant about using it as a tool is to abandon anger
    Stargate Tone: and it is Your own subconsiousness which give ‘alerts’ throgh Your heart
    Adams Rubble: yes I can see that
    Gambhira Skytower: I have not learned yet how to do Gab though
    Adams Rubble: Gab?
    Gambhira Skytower: I mean pab
    Gambhira Skytower: sorry
    Adams Rubble: oh :)
    Stargate Tone: when You can feel that Your fear do rise form ur ’stomache’ ; that’s the message that there’s no reason to the fear
    Stargate Tone: but when Ur heart do give the ‘alert’
    Stargate Tone: then You need to check, what’s wrong
    Adams Rubble: Stargate, I am having a harder time understanding what you are saying but I will think much about it
    Stargate Tone: the Truth gives alwasy the good feelings only
    Adams Rubble: Do either of you know how to copy the cimmunicate window?
    Stargate Tone: well; I use to say people this;

    And she then asked to let go of her message.

    Stargate Tone: pls; forget all of my words now
    Stargate Tone: and they shall rise withing Your own scedule; based on your True Will
    Stargate Tone: just ‘let go’ my words :)*** <3<3<3
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stargate Tone: words are alwasy too little to the answers You do wish *
    Stargate Tone: I take that You do know that we are neve alone, in case we do not wanna be :)***
    Stargate Tone: and the next best guide are the dreams which You remember ; examine them and You find more
    Adams Rubble: Do you mean friends?
    Adams Rubble: the subconscious
    Stargate Tone: and the next best friend You have ‘behind’ You ; beside You all the time
    Stargate Tone: I call them all to be angels, even most of them has been a person on Earth
    Stargate Tone: anwyay; the one who’s beside You always; do know You more than You do, and love You specially much
    Stargate Tone: there’s sure are many kind of beings helping people
    Stargate Tone: there’s also such life forms that are created specially to help people
    Stargate Tone: on needs only to ask clearly
    Stargate Tone: in case one wants to know more of ones personal guide and quardian
    Stargate Tone: next to one
    Stargate Tone: but not to be seen with bare eyes normally
    Stargate Tone: …having doupts to such being, not bad idea that either
    Stargate Tone: I had doupts; but then I felt that somebody beside me felt bad
    Stargate Tone: and I realized
    Stargate Tone: then I asked his forgiveness saying this;
    Stargate Tone: ‘Please 4give me, as I am a human being now, but I promise to trust that You are
    Stargate Tone: and I promise to learn to take that to be obvious *
    Stargate Tone: and after that I’ve had many conversations with him …and with few others…
    Stargate Tone: doupts
    Stargate Tone: are included to human way of thinking….
    Stargate Tone: to win them; just ask this; ‘what am I afraid of now’
    Stargate Tone: and Ull get the answer
    Stargate Tone: or let Your doupt to be so clear, that U can experience the same than I did
    Adams Rubble: I like that question “What am I afraid of?”
    Stargate Tone: it’s not wrong to make mistakes
    Stargate Tone: Your words are ointment to my wounds Love *
    Stargate Tone: Thank you
    Stargate Tone: cuz them fears, which we know
    Stargate Tone: they are already halfly won
    Stargate Tone: them fears we donno yet; they are the prob
    Stargate Tone: but they are such that makes Your somacke go upside down sometimes
    Stargate Tone: even U donno why
    Stargate Tone: but remembering, that the message of them fears r, that there’s no reason to them
    Stargate Tone: I cannot make clarity, if either one of You or both
    Stargate Tone: have now released much such fears
    Stargate Tone: I only know this;
    Stargate Tone: my ’stomacke’ is now full of fears I’ve received here now…
    Stargate Tone: and I shall transform those
    Stargate Tone: that’s the main reason I appeared here now
    Stargate Tone: we could’ve been talking as well about the weather….
    Adams Rubble: rstand
    Stargate Tone: I thank You very much for Your given time *
    Stargate Tone: and wish that we can meet again *
    Adams Rubble: It was nice to meet you and thank you for your words
    Stargate Tone: …sry I forgot my this group tag…it is yes given to me honestly..yet
    Gambhira Skytower: take care now
    Stargate Tone: please remember that all ARE equal
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Stargate Tone: people are only different; with diffrent charachters and skills *
    Adams Rubble: all seeking the same path
    Stargate Tone: wishing you all the best
    Adams Rubble: yes bye
    Stargate Tone: stargate
    Adams Rubble: That was quite an exit
    Gambhira Skytower: nice hearts
    Gambhira Skytower: lol
    Adams Rubble: :)

    Adams and Gambhira returned to Buddhism, after Stargate had left.

    Gambhira Skytower: why do you feel like you can’t follow the path
    Gambhira Skytower: is that what you feel?
    Adams Rubble: Sorry, things just flashed on the screen…
    Adams Rubble: I think I forget to follow the path
    Adams Rubble: It is not engrained in me yet
    Adams Rubble: Maybe I need reminders
    Adams Rubble: I don;t feel at peace
    Adams Rubble: I am not unhappy but something is missing in me
    Gambhira Skytower: i see. what path are you following?
    Adams Rubble: Well, I was talking about the Buddha-way
    Gambhira Skytower: ok
    Gambhira Skytower: mindfulness and inner peace can grow within you but I think it takes a long time and alot of practice
    Gambhira Skytower: i was reading my old journal recently and see that I used to have more anger in my past… i think it has reduced over the years

    The conversation turned to anger, a potentially very powerful form of fuel for explorations.

    Adams Rubble: yes anger is a symptom
    Adams Rubble: In Christianity one just trusts in God for forgiveness
    Adams Rubble: it is harder to find the peace in oneself
    Gambhira Skytower: in Buddhism I think that if you are sorry about doing something you also need to not do it again in the future
    Adams Rubble: yes, but hard to do
    Adams Rubble: especially with anger
    Gambhira Skytower: yes
    Adams Rubble: It is easy not to kill somebody
    Adams Rubble: but hard not to say something cruel
    Adams Rubble: once in a while anyway
    Adams Rubble: or inadvertantly
    Gambhira Skytower: lol
    Adams Rubble: hard not to kill a spider
    Gambhira Skytower: here we have a “bug catcher”
    Gambhira Skytower: it is a little clear pyramid with a sliding bottom to catch the bug and bring it outside
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gambhira Skytower: most spiders will not hurt you
    Adams Rubble: no they won;t but there is a response
    Gambhira Skytower: a killing reflex u mean?
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble: wham!!!
    Gambhira Skytower: lol. I think u can change that

    And on to mindfulness.

    Adams Rubble: no but I have gotten us off track. anger probably is the bigger problem
    Adams Rubble: and remembering compassion
    Adams Rubble: to be compassionate
    Adams Rubble: when we are angry
    Gambhira Skytower: controling our bodily actions and speech is easy than controling anger
    Gambhira Skytower: well, we can stop the anger from pouring out into bodily or verbal actions with mindfulness
    Adams Rubble: yes, good, back to mindfulness…and that from meditation?
    Gambhira Skytower: you mean does mindfulness come from meditation?
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble: or can it?
    Gambhira Skytower: yes
    Gambhira Skytower: it is like exercising a weak muscle to make it stronger

    And the conversation circled back to PaB.

    Adams Rubble: I am understanding PaB may be a good way to start learning to meditate
    Gambhira Skytower: i still don’t know how to do Pab, i haven’t read the webpage yet
    Adams Rubble: It is pretty easy…maybe good for those us with very weak muscles :)
    Adams Rubble: those of us
    Adams Rubble: I am keeping a blog there. I am kind of a laboratory experiment
    Gambhira Skytower: i see
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gambhira Skytower: have you been doing Pab
    Adams Rubble: Yes. I am new at it; you will find my struggle laid out there for all to see :)
    Gambhira Skytower: how long have you been doing it?
    Adams Rubble: A little more than a week
    Adams Rubble: The blog is just in its fourth day
    Adams Rubble: It was meant to be private but Pema found it and put it up
    Adams Rubble: It was what he was talking about when he came in
    Adams Rubble: when I came in
    Adams Rubble: He thinks it will help others

    Yes, he is convinced it will! :-)

    Gambhira Skytower: i hope it helps
    Adams Rubble: that would be good :)
    Adams Rubble: It will help me learn to suppress my ego :)
    Adams Rubble: or make it worse :)

    Or better still, see through the illusion of there being a self, or ego, in the first place. Perhaps what we call self/ego is just a way to look at the world, a type of mindset or filter, and nothing substantial that could even be suppressed or gotten rid of — just a tool that we can view for what it is and use it without being distracted by it. To be continued!

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