Dream Interpretation
Fael Illyar: Hi Gen
Adams Rubble: Hi Gen
Fael Illyar: So, another breakthrough?
genesis Zhangsun: Hi all!
Adams Rubble: Yes, self in the way
genesis Zhangsun: whats the breakthrough?
Adams Rubble: I don;t know that I want to make myself the topic of conversation again :)
Adams Rubble: I have written it out in my blog
Fael Illyar: Do we have another?
Adams Rubble: I had a dream yesterday
Adams Rubble: interpreted it on the blog today
Adams Rubble: Mainly I’ve discovered that my “self” has been in the way
Adams Rubble: Thus me not being so anxious to talk about it all again :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes i am always tripping over my “self”
Faenik: why not?
Adams Rubble: :) faenik
Fael Illyar: :)
genesis Zhangsun: but its liberating in a way to figure it out even if I can’t stop doing it…well at least yet
genesis Zhangsun: maybe one day I will trip less
Adams Rubble: yes, but I also found it a bit painful
genesis Zhangsun: or fall more gracefully
Adams Rubble: :)
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Fael Illyar: painful, how?
Adams Rubble: first, writing out all the interpretation on the blog
Adams Rubble: and realizing what had been happening along the way
Adams Rubble: and discovering other things about myself that I didn;t talk about, or won’t or can’t
Adams Rubble: just going into the depths
Adams Rubble: of my “self”
Adams Rubble: However,
Adams Rubble: one thing I found very interesting
Adams Rubble: is that my sub-conscious was warning me about my self
Adams Rubble: I would have thought the sub-conscious was the self
genesis Zhangsun: and now what is the sub-conscious to u?
Adams Rubble: I haven’t thought that out yet Gen
Adams Rubble: This is all pretty new
Adams Rubble: but good question
genesis Zhangsun: does it have a voice?
Adams Rubble: Yes, it provided my dream
Fael Illyar: I think it’s mistake to expect your mind to be a cohesive entity :)
Adams Rubble: actually the “self” is the selfish
Adams Rubble: the desire aprt
Adams Rubble: part
genesis Zhangsun: and the subconscious is it selfless?
Adams Rubble: I doubt it
Adams Rubble: what do you think?
genesis Zhangsun: maybe I should read about the dream?
I went on to Adams’s blog Rubble Born Thoughts and read about Adams’s dream and her interpretation
Adams Rubble: At least it is very interesting
Fael Illyar: what I was trying to say is that you can’t divide it into parts properly but neither is it a single thing either.
Fael Illyar: that holds for subconscious and the whole mind
Adams Rubble: My experience would indicate that fael
Fael Illyar: Yes, mine too, that’s why I said that :)
Fael Illyar: I’ve often felt like I’m a detached observer observing myself … although at the same time also myself.
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar: hard to describe
Adams Rubble: I understand that
Adams Rubble: I have experienced that yes
Adams Rubble: Did you see my interpretation Fael?
Fael Illyar: Yes, I just read it.
Fael Illyar: It fits very well.
Faenik: なるほど^^
Adams Rubble: What is Faenik saying in Japanese?
Fael Illyar: something to the effect of “Ah, I see”
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar: or maybe “Ah, now I see”
Adams Rubble: Good for you Faenik
Adams Rubble: Does the green mean that it is a script?
Fael Illyar: yes, green means it’s a script
I finished reading about Adams’s dream made me feel tide up in knots
genesis Zhangsun: I just read your dream
genesis Zhangsun: sounds like turmoil
Adams Rubble: I think when we remember what our subconscious is telling us it often indicates some turmoil
Adams Rubble: at least in my expereince
Adams Rubble: for me
genesis Zhangsun: a war inside
Fael Illyar: Yes, in mine too.
Adams Rubble: Not quite a war Gen
Adams Rubble: just needing to understand that my “self” was in the way
Adams Rubble: Did you see my interpretation today?
genesis Zhangsun: hmmm I will look again
Adams Rubble: It can wait–I will have to be going pretty soon
Adams Rubble: But my “self” was in danger of
Adams Rubble: interfering with what I could learn from the group
Fael Illyar: I’ve got one thing you might want to think about. The things you’re not willing to talk about. Is the unwillingness because you don’t want to think about them or just not have others know about them?
Adams Rubble: they are very presonal, Fael
Adams Rubble: personal
Fael Illyar: That was not a question. Just something I think is worth answering, if just for yourself.
Adams Rubble: This is a public blog and I do lay out many things about myself
Adams Rubble: These things that I left out don;t have anything to do with my growth pertaining to PaB
Faenik: ah :)
Adams Rubble: I think they are irrelevant
Adams Rubble: someday I may wish to reveal some of them
Adams Rubble: but not now
Adams Rubble: but I am not ignoring them, no :)
Fael Illyar: Ok, that’s what I wanted to know :)
Adams Rubble: thanks Fael :)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I need to go very soon and I think gen is still reading
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Adams :)
Adams Rubble: I’ll wait as long as I can and then go suddenly :)
Adams Rubble: brb
I finished reading Adams’s interpretation which was very insightful and I completely concurred with.
genesis Zhangsun: bye adams
genesis Zhangsun: interesting dream
genesis Zhangsun: so fael do you usually come to the 1pm meetings?
Fael Illyar: I often do
Adams Rubble: still here - any questions Gen?
genesis Zhangsun: i think its interesting this part about the “magic” which the PaB members offer
genesis Zhangsun: and the dynamics between the magicians
genesis Zhangsun: and your search for your role in these dynamics
genesis Zhangsun: and your desire to know to learn more
Faenik: indeed?
genesis Zhangsun: and your conflict in ways of knowing
genesis Zhangsun: the way in which the self aids or presents in obstacle in knowing
genesis Zhangsun: *an obstacle
Adams Rubble: yes that is the key point :)
Adams Rubble: and that is the kind of breakthrough I was mentioning to Fael when you came in
genesis Zhangsun: I find myself often tripping on myself in these PaB sessions and for some reason it becomes so glaring to me here in SL then it is in RL
genesis Zhangsun: clearer to myself when my “self” is getting in the way
Faenik: why not?
Adams Rubble: that is an intersting point Gen
Fael Illyar: There is less to keep your mind focused on others so you have more time to focus on yourself.
Adams Rubble: hmmm
Adams Rubble: I must go now. I will read the log. Bye to both of you and thanks for your comments :)
Fael Illyar: Hope you’re not losing the track of time :)
Adams Rubble: I am off :)
genesis Zhangsun: by Adams
Adams leaves us and it is just me and Fael and we turned to comparing RL and SL and “self” identification
Fael Illyar: Anyway, as I was saying, there are less things to divert your attention away from yourself here as compared to RL conversation.
genesis Zhangsun: yes thats true or perhaps more space
genesis Zhangsun: more space to experience more subtle emotions
genesis Zhangsun: subtle states of awareness
genesis Zhangsun: then when you are actually in conversation being observed by the other person engaged with the other person completely
genesis Zhangsun: like everything is slowed down a bit
genesis Zhangsun: by the text
Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, more time to think too
genesis Zhangsun: yes more time to think and less things to judge
genesis Zhangsun: less information
genesis Zhangsun: provided visually
Fael Illyar: less is more :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes perhaps because that can be very distracting
genesis Zhangsun: that is the interesting thing about SL
genesis Zhangsun: you know nothing about what the other person really looks like, where they live, what language they speak
genesis Zhangsun: what they do for a living
genesis Zhangsun: all of these things which we usually use to judge
genesis Zhangsun: which are distracting often
genesis Zhangsun: to meeting the true other
Fael Illyar: well, the language some speaks usually is known I’d think :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes well maybe not
genesis Zhangsun: i wouldn’t have guessed you were Finnish ;)
genesis Zhangsun: your english is very good
Fael Illyar: Well, yes, some people, like me, can hide that they’re not native English speakers, if they want to :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes even in RL
Fael Illyar: It’s pretty easily guessable from my profile where I’m from though :)
Fael Illyar: Although I haven’t written it there directly. Not really relevant information :)
genesis Zhangsun: well I guess my point is here I am not distracted by it
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps its somewhere in the background
genesis Zhangsun: but we don’t really need to focus on it
genesis Zhangsun: In RL I probably would feel obligated to engage in conversation about Finland
genesis Zhangsun: ask you Oh wow where do you live! Oh when did you learn English!
genesis Zhangsun: these sorts of things
genesis Zhangsun: here we are just sort of being
Faenik: なるほど^^
genesis Zhangsun: because being Finnish doesn’t necessarily define who you are
genesis Zhangsun: and here I remember this
Fael Illyar: Yes, the normal, questions … I keep hoping people don’t ask me those :)
Fael Illyar: But yes, being Finnish doesn’t define who I am … although, I’m not exactly sure what does :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes me neither but I also prefer that others don’d define my identity for me
genesis Zhangsun: before they know me at least ;)
genesis Zhangsun: you know what i mean?
Fael Illyar: Yes, I think I do :)
genesis Zhangsun: I am just amazed by the number of judgments people make in everyday life about others
genesis Zhangsun: which have no foundation in reality often
genesis Zhangsun: for example in RL I look Japanese
genesis Zhangsun: but I was raised in the States
genesis Zhangsun: so I don’t really consider myself Japanese
genesis Zhangsun: but others have decided that I am Japanese
genesis Zhangsun: as a starting point for interaction
genesis Zhangsun: this is funny to me!
Fael Illyar: Yes, I think I can see that :)
genesis Zhangsun: identities are complicated and getting even more so and so I think it is almost evolution
genesis Zhangsun: necessary for survival not to judge
genesis Zhangsun: which is very counter intuitive in some wyas
Fael Illyar: more a revolution :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes perhaps that for some
genesis Zhangsun: :)
genesis Zhangsun: how do you feel being Finnish defines who you are?
Fael Illyar: it doesn’t
genesis Zhangsun: not at all?
Fael Illyar: I’m not sure if I’d say not at all but I’m not aware of any.
Fael Illyar: not at all sounds impossible :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes…it has been interesting in my experience deconstructing how culture has affected the construction of my identity
genesis Zhangsun: to find out ways in which my “culture” gets in the way
Faenik: why not?
genesis Zhangsun: the same way as understanding how the “self” gets in the way
Fael Illyar: I somehow ended up abandoning all parts of identity I felt came from “outside” some years back.
Fael Illyar: probably more than ten years ago
Faenik: ah :)
genesis Zhangsun: but did you have to go through a process of realizing what you were leaving behind?
genesis Zhangsun: were you conscious of what you left behind?
Fael Illyar: I think so, although I no longer remember what it was.
I was astounded!
genesis Zhangsun: that is profound
genesis Zhangsun: fascinating!
Fael Illyar: or how much there was actually :)
genesis Zhangsun: you just left it all behind and what was left?
genesis Zhangsun: was there anything leftover?
genesis Zhangsun: or just being?
Fael Illyar: I didn’t leave it all at once, I don’t think.
genesis Zhangsun: may I ask you how you did it?
genesis Zhangsun: were there steps?
Fael Illyar: My memories of it are very hazy
Fael Illyar: I’m not sure why I started but I got the idea somehow that I shouldn’t have my identity constructed by others.
Faenik loves wells!
genesis Zhangsun: yes but I wonder if it is possible
genesis Zhangsun: for me anyway
Fael Illyar: Well, considering there isn’t much to say about my identity now, I did leave much behind.
Fael Illyar: I’d say it’s probably not possible fast and probably requires a change in your core values somehow.
Faenik: ah :)
genesis Zhangsun: Yes I just find it an incredible process
genesis Zhangsun: of self realization
genesis Zhangsun: for me I have to locate what it is I am leaving behind before leaving it behind
genesis Zhangsun: it is a sort of logical analytical process for me
Fael Illyar: I think I did something like that
genesis Zhangsun: wonderful though that you can talk about it in so much hindsight
Fael Illyar: I feel I remember very little about it
genesis Zhangsun: yes exactly wonderful to come to a point where all of that was so long ago
genesis Zhangsun: to have so much history where you are acting without all those constructs controlling you
Fael Illyar: I think I started doing it at some point when I had lost whatever I had based myself on.
Building a house on sand…
Fael Illyar: I didn’t want to base myself on sand again :)
genesis Zhangsun: what do you base yourself on now?
Fael Illyar: That’s a good question :)
genesis Zhangsun: is it harder to dissolve than sand?
genesis Zhangsun: a diamond?
genesis Zhangsun: ;)
Fael Illyar: :)
Fael Illyar: It could be I’ve ended up basing myself on that I try to see how things really are.
Fael Illyar: notice, not on seeing things as they really are. But on pursuing that
genesis Zhangsun: I like the sand metaphor though
Fael Illyar: well, it’s from the bible actually :P
Fael Illyar: there is a story in there about building your house on sand
genesis Zhangsun: was it from the house’s perspective?
genesis Zhangsun: ;)
Fael Illyar: nope
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: but I don’t think that’d make much of a difference :)
genesis Zhangsun: oh no it was a joke didn’t work well
Fael Illyar: It did make laugh, actually.
genesis Zhangsun: I guess I just read what you said about being “based” on sand as being made of sand
genesis Zhangsun: hence was it from the house’s perspective
genesis Zhangsun: though I’m glad it made u laugh anyway
Fael Illyar: well, the story’s point was that no matter how good a house you build on sand, it’s useless when the sand eventually swallows it.
genesis Zhangsun: ah yes that is a good point
genesis Zhangsun: and fitting to the point you were making
genesis Zhangsun: Fael it has been nice talking to you
genesis Zhangsun: I must go now
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later :)
genesis Zhangsun: bye
