2008.07.15 13:00 - Coffee and PaB?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are from whoever feels like writing them.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: hi Fael
    Faenik loves wells!
    Gaya Ethaniel: how r u today?
    Fael Illyar: I'm good, you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: not bad at all :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: r u always login?
    Gaya Ethaniel: logged in?
    Fael Illyar: First time I had a really busy day today after starting PaB.
    Fael Illyar: Usually, but not today
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: i'm here to meet Genesis
    Fael Illyar: Ah :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: don't think i've met him/her before
    Fael Illyar: her

    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok thanks :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Udge :)
    Udge Watanabe: hello!
    Gaya Ethaniel: hi Udge
    Udge Watanabe: hello fael, gyay
    Udge Watanabe: *gaya
    Udge Watanabe: sorry

    Gaya Ethaniel: np pls feel free to join us
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams
    Udge Watanabe: hello adams
    Gaya Ethaniel: hi Adams :)
    Fael Illyar: exceptional day, 4 people here before 1pm :)
    Adams Rubble: Hi Fael, Hi Gaya, Hi Udge :)
    Udge Watanabe smiles
    Udge Watanabe: brb

    Fael Illyar: Hi gen :)
    Adams Rubble: Hi Gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Fael!
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Adams!
    Gaya Ethaniel: hi genesis
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Gaya
    genesis Zhangsun: Nice to meet you
    Gaya Ethaniel: same here :)
    Udge Watanabe: hello genesis
    genesis Zhangsun: Nice to meet you too Udge
    Udge Watanabe: Fael, you're here incognito today?
    Fael Illyar: incognito?
    Udge Watanabe: no tag :-)
    Udge Watanabe: or do I mean "off duty"?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar: the tag is not necessary :)
    Adams Rubble: not mandatory
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fael Illyar: I had a rather busy day today. First time after starting PaB.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes?
    genesis Zhangsun: what kind of busy?
    Fael Illyar: Where that'd usually have left me very exhausted and worn out. Not only did I avoid that but I managed things better than usual. :)
    Fael Illyar: the sort that used to have me feeling like there is a whole truckload of things I need to do and not enough time to do them.
    genesis Zhangsun: ah nice sometime to test out the practice in this way not only in quiet times but chaotic times
    Fael Illyar: Well, the day felt sort of like I was meditating the whole day.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: but I was still doing things too
    Fael Illyar: even things requiring concentration.
    genesis Zhangsun: it seems the effect of the practice is very strong for you Fael
    Fael Illyar: interruptions had very little effect on my concentration
    Fael Illyar: Quite ... interesting experience.
    genesis Zhangsun: did you have a chime going during the day or were you able to drop in by yourself?
    Fael Illyar: I did have the chime since this was work from home.
    Fael Illyar: but I found I didn't need to especially do anything most of the time when it rang. I was already detached from things.
    genesis Zhangsun: and even in the business of the day did you feel that the quality of the 9 seconds was uncompromised?
    genesis Zhangsun: ah yes sorry you sort of answered this
    Adams Rubble: Wow that is something Fael
    Udge Watanabe nods.
    Fael Illyar: Well, it was sort of do it or "be crushed" sort of thing.
    genesis Zhangsun: hmmm yes I can relate to this
    Adams Rubble doesn't like to be crushed
    genesis Zhangsun: a time when it is necessary to stay calm and collected or be crushed
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes :)
    Fael Illyar: I wasn't in panic trying to remember what I had to do next :)
    Fael Illyar: although, the effect has worn off a bit now. I wonder if I'm "relaxing" the meditation now that I'm having a pause :P
    Faenik: why not?
    Gaya Ethaniel: anyone with negative experience due to meditation?
    Udge Watanabe shakes his head
    genesis Zhangsun: yes sure I guess I have
    genesis Zhangsun: not as a result of meditating
    Fael Illyar: I've talked with one person who was negative about it but not willing to share anything about why.
    genesis Zhangsun: but because what was already underneath was negative
    Udge Watanabe: ah, yes.
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes i know what u mean genesis
    Gaya Ethaniel: i guess 'due to' is not quite a right word for it
    Fael Illyar: I find meditation is simply a tool that helps in knowing yourself.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes but i suppose in these moments I would have been feeling negative anyway
    Faenik loves wells!
    Udge Watanabe: meditation happened to lift that particular rock, then?
    Gaya Ethaniel: for me meditation can amplify, does this make sense?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I think this is what I am trying to get at
    genesis Zhangsun: amplify negativity already present
    genesis Zhangsun: may i make a request?
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes
    genesis Zhangsun: Next time the bell chimes can we all write one word
    Fael Illyar: One thing I've noted after starting meditation and having been quite calm for several weeks is that if there is a disturbance, it comes out stronger.
    genesis Zhangsun: its nice to share :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: brb excuse me
    Adams Rubble doesn't have sound on this computer
    genesis Zhangsun: hmm how so Fael?
    Adams Rubble: BRB
    Fael Illyar: Well if I think back to the day before yesterday, I don't recall having that sort of mental storm before.
    Udge Watanabe: what happened then?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: Not much, really. I was just acting rather disturbed here.
    Udge Watanabe: that's unlike you.
    Fael Illyar: aware of it but not able to figure out what to do with it.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: and blaming coffee for it :P
    genesis Zhangsun: lol yes coffee!
    Udge Watanabe: well, y'know, there is some truth in that. It is a strong stimulant
    Adams Rubble: back
    Udge Watanabe: wb
    Fael Illyar: Even if coffee brought it out, it didn't cause it.
    genesis Zhangsun: I always feel horrible drinking coffee
    genesis Zhangsun: i don't know what that says about me :)
    Udge Watanabe: I discovered for the first time today, that I do too.
    Udge Watanabe: I had to give up coffee about two weeks ago because of medicatio I was taking.
    Adams Rubble: I don;t drink it
    Udge Watanabe: Had a cup this morning, and was irritable and jittery and unconcentrated after.
    Udge Watanabe: for *hours*
    genesis Zhangsun: Fael do you drink coffee regularly?
    Fael Illyar: I don't drink it often. I just bought this toblerone cappucino package that's got 8 packages in it and still a couple left.
    genesis Zhangsun: ummm that sounds evil :) I love toblerone
    genesis Zhangsun: is this the same as the chocolate?
    Fael Illyar: this is the only sort of coffee drink I actually like the taste of :)
    Fael Illyar: it's a cross between hot chocolate and coffee
    Fael Illyar: and milk of course
    genesis Zhangsun: i know i promised in the past not to be inane and ask you about what "FIns" do but do Finnish people generally drink a lot of coffee?
    Fael Illyar: anyway, the first 3 days drinking one cup per day, I did feel irritable, frustrated and such for seemingly no reason.
    Udge Watanabe: heheh
    Fael Illyar: it's usually written "Finns" though :P
    genesis Zhangsun: oops sorry
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I think majority do drink coffee
    Udge Watanabe: Germans certainly do, more than beer even.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes? are you German Udge?
    Fael Illyar: however, after my major disturbance at the 1pm meeting the day before yesterday, I was feeling completely calm, no problems whatsoever
    Udge Watanabe: no, but I live in Germany.
    genesis Zhangsun: in Berlin?
    genesis Zhangsun: by any chance?
    Udge Watanabe: Stuttgart, actually, where the cars come from :-)
    Fael Illyar: it continued the next day so I decided to test to make sure if it was the coffee or if the real cause was elsewhere and coffee just brought it out.
    genesis Zhangsun: hmm... ok just curious I was living in Berlin until November of last year
    Udge Watanabe: mm?
    Fael Illyar: so I continued drinking it. I haven't had a problem since.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes probably makes sense that coffee is not the "cause"
    genesis Zhangsun: of unpleasantness
    genesis Zhangsun: good that you continued perhaps?
    Udge Watanabe: it answered the quetsion, at least.
    Fael Illyar: Well, I don't know about good or bad :)
    genesis Zhangsun: oops was I getting dualistic again ;)
    Fael Illyar: I just don't want to leave them in the box unused if they're not the cause :)
    Fael Illyar: I like the taste, after all :)
    Faenik: why not?
    Adams Rubble: I must leave you now. bye everyone :)
    Fael Illyar: Bye Adams :)
    Udge Watanabe: bye adams
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Adams!
    genesis Zhangsun: take care
    Udge Watanabe: we need an alternative to the coffee machine. A juice bar, perhaps?
    Fael Illyar: whirlpool
    Udge Watanabe: heheheheh
    genesis Zhangsun: tuning fork
    Fael Illyar: (Gen wanted a word after the bell) ;)
    Udge Watanabe: massage
    Udge Watanabe: (my word)
    Faenik: ah :)
    Fael Illyar: in some ways today felt like tightrope walking too.
    Udge Watanabe: I missed the bell, thnks for the reminder.
    genesis Zhangsun: thanks for writing a word

    Fael Illyar: Hi Solo
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Solo!
    Solobill Laville: Hi!
    Udge Watanabe: hello solo
    Solobill Laville: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: ooo nice shirt!
    Fael Illyar: tightrope walking in the sense of having to correct the balance every once in a while.
    Fael Illyar: Well, slow motion though :)
    Udge Watanabe: brb, need to walk about a bit.
    Solobill Laville: ty - Ryusho...
    genesis Zhangsun: yeah I thought so!
    genesis Zhangsun: has he opened his shop?
    Solobill Laville: oh, yes, stright back behind you
    genesis Zhangsun: will have to check it out
    Fael Illyar: I guess modifying your shape (and face) and switching skin isn't visible enough to attract comments from most people.
    genesis Zhangsun: oops sorry?
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Solobill Laville: I just hadn't had time yet Fael
    genesis Zhangsun: funny the things we notice
    Solobill Laville: Wowza!
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Solobill Laville: Really amazing
    Fael Illyar: thank you :)
    Solobill Laville: Did you do all of the clothes Fael?
    Fael Illyar: I can only take credit for the shape. The skin isn't my doing. Neither are the clothes.
    Solobill Laville: Ok, still, wonderful!
    Fael Illyar: I only chose them from an ocean of alternatives :P
    Solobill Laville: Are you doing animations as well?
    Fael Illyar: no, not those ... at least not yet
    Fael Illyar: the wings are mine though
    Solobill Laville: Yes, I remembered that
    Faenik: why not?
    Solobill Laville: Wow, the new skins look so great...
    Fael Illyar: new skins?
    Solobill Laville: Sorry, some of the new skins I've seen lately...
    Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, I guess SL is attracting more talent :)
    Solobill Laville: But I don't mean to throw off the discussion...
    genesis Zhangsun: not at all
    genesis Zhangsun: you know Fael I have been meaning to ask you
    genesis Zhangsun: about something you said
    genesis Zhangsun: in one of the sessions I read
    genesis Zhangsun: I am sorry my memory is a little fuzzy
    genesis Zhangsun: so i don't exactly remember which one
    genesis Zhangsun: but you said something about how you at some point realized that you had "stopped caring" as a way of coping
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry if this is a total misstatement
    genesis Zhangsun: but maybe you can remember the context?
    Fael Illyar: no, it's quite correct.
    Solobill Laville: Sorry, all, must go, RL biz call...bye
    Fael Illyar: Bye Solo :)
    genesis Zhangsun: bye solo!
    genesis Zhangsun: nice to see you :)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes could you talk a bit more about this
    genesis Zhangsun: i found if very interesting
    Fael Illyar: I was recognising that caring about things makes it hard if you lose them.
    genesis Zhangsun: because at time I find such a fine line between "distancing" yourself in a calming way
    genesis Zhangsun: and distancing in a detaching way
    genesis Zhangsun: yes that is true
    genesis Zhangsun: and not caring?
    Fael Illyar: so my reaction at the time was to keep caring down
    Fael Illyar: I never succeeded at that completely.
    Fael Illyar: and I guess I never tried to completely stop caring about anything.
    Udge Watanabe: back, sorry
    Fael Illyar: but for things I felt I couldn't trust to stay, I'd hold back the caring.
    genesis Zhangsun: For me it is a difficult balance
    Fael Illyar: That balance is what I was trying to keep today. Hence the tightrope walking comparison.
    genesis Zhangsun: of caring enough to stay present and not caring so much I get "carried away"
    genesis Zhangsun: yes that is a good analogy
    Faenik: why not?
    genesis Zhangsun: eyes
    Fael Illyar: a couple of times I ended up momentarily not caring much of anything and I just sat and stared until I realized that's not a good idea.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes?
    Fael Illyar: I can't really explain how I did it.
    Fael Illyar: but I somehow pushed myself back from there.
    Fael Illyar: I didn't have big problems with staying out of the other end.
    Fael Illyar: mostly because that actually feels bad to get closer to.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes i think i know what you mean not caring is seductive
    genesis Zhangsun: comfortable
    Fael Illyar: comfortable but not fun.
    Fael Illyar: if you have the balance right, it can become fun to do things.
    Udge Watanabe nods.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes thats right for me this is what PaB is essentially about
    genesis Zhangsun: this playfulness
    genesis Zhangsun: from a freedom
    genesis Zhangsun: of caring and not caring at the same time
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I felt quite free today.

    Fael Illyar: I almost could feel my mind being in liquid form.
    Gorobei Kaligawa: hi
    genesis Zhangsun: oh thats sounds delicious
    Fael Illyar: Hi Gorobei
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Gorbei
    Udge Watanabe: hello gorobei
    Gorobei Kaligawa: may I sit down with you?
    genesis Zhangsun: sure
    pillow - kneel: Rotation = <0.61359, -0.29019, 0.66386, 0.31400>
    genesis Zhangsun: you are welcome
    Gorobei Kaligawa: thanks
    Gorobei Kaligawa: well what's up?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: I'm new here
    genesis Zhangsun: well I guess it is a meeting of sort
    genesis Zhangsun: we are playing as being
    genesis Zhangsun: have you heard of this concept
    genesis Zhangsun: ?
    genesis Zhangsun: I am assuming perhaps not
    Gorobei Kaligawa: playing?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: who's playing
    genesis Zhangsun: yes well I guess discussing our experiences
    Fael Illyar: Playing at Being
    genesis Zhangsun: it is a practice
    Faenik: indeed?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: never heard of
    Udge Watanabe: well, in certain senses, everyone is all the time.
    genesis Zhangsun: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Gorobei Kaligawa: if there is no one to play who's the player?
    genesis Zhangsun: you can check it out here if you would
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry if you would like
    Gorobei Kaligawa: yes I would
    Udge Watanabe: roleplaying rather than playing cards :-)
    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar is having hard time thinking of this as roleplaying :)
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps playing the role of being?
    Udge Watanabe: oh but it is! quite definitely.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes udge explain?
    Udge Watanabe: just as RL is too
    Udge Watanabe: I am a different person in habits and voice and style, when I am with my sister and her kids, than when I am at work
    Udge Watanabe: differnet again in thte bar or the concert hall.
    Udge Watanabe: therse are roles I play.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes and being?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: I understand your point
    Gorobei Kaligawa: it could be interesting
    genesis Zhangsun: but in some ways isn't being the thing underlying all of those roles/
    Gorobei Kaligawa: see what chances you have in life
    genesis Zhangsun: oops ?
    Udge Watanabe: "being" I tzhink comes into this in the way we come back to "reality" in many of these sessions.
    Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
    Gorobei Kaligawa: that's the hard part I guess
    Udge Watanabe: as a subject for discussion
    genesis Zhangsun: would you equate reality with being?
    Fael Illyar: Being is hard to talk about :) pretty much anything you can say about it in words is wrong somehow.
    genesis Zhangsun: wrong?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: peraphs
    Udge Watanabe: "limitinig" perhaps rather than wrong?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: it depends on the life I guess
    Udge Watanabe: the six blind men and hte elephant, and all that :-)
    Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
    Faenik: why not?
    genesis Zhangsun: as you can see Gorobei this is all very much a thing that keep evolving
    genesis Zhangsun: and moving
    genesis Zhangsun: the practice and how we define it
    Fael Illyar: yes, for example, if you say "reality equals Being", you're assuming Being is something that can be defined (or you have redefined reality to point to Being)
    genesis Zhangsun: it is an experiment in some sense to ask questions
    Udge Watanabe: of ourselves :-)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes thank you Udge
    Udge Watanabe: and of the world
    Gorobei Kaligawa: I think it depends on your perception of reality
    genesis Zhangsun: yes?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: is this reality?
    genesis Zhangsun: Its a good question
    Fael Illyar: what is reality?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: if it is not, then what is reality?
    Udge Watanabe: it is as real to me as many things in socalled real life are.
    Gorobei Kaligawa: but you cannot eat here, or drink or touch things (yet?)
    Gorobei Kaligawa: Fael Illyar is very quiet, is she meditating?
    Fael Illyar: why would those be required for reality?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: as a matter of fact I'm becoming hungry
    Gorobei Kaligawa: to survive?
    Faenik loves wells!
    Fael Illyar: isn't the reality of SL that you'll survive without those?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: maybe here
    Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
    Gorobei Kaligawa: not in RL
    Gorobei Kaligawa: just try it for yourself
    Gorobei Kaligawa: can I ask a question?
    Fael Illyar: Oh, I'm not claiming you can survive without them in RL :)
    Gorobei Kaligawa: do you use first or third view here'
    Gorobei Kaligawa: ?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: yes
    Gorobei Kaligawa: but here we can
    Fael Illyar: third
    Udge Watanabe: no idea :-) what do you mean?
    Fael Illyar: mouselook (first) or not (third)
    Gorobei Kaligawa: I think that's the diference
    Udge Watanabe: oh, right. Always third, in that case.
    Udge Watanabe: hmm, do you not occcasionally observe yourself "from outside" in RL too?
    Fael Illyar: I use first rarely.
    Gorobei Kaligawa: I think first view gives you a more indeep look on SL
    Udge Watanabe: brb
    Gorobei Kaligawa: reality is in your mind but hungry is in your stomach I belive
    Gorobei Kaligawa: eh eh
    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar: These meetings are logged and posted on the wiki later, are you ok with your name being included, Gorobei?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: fine with me
    Gorobei Kaligawa: but I will be going now
    Gorobei Kaligawa: want to look around before dinner
    Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
    Fael Illyar: Ok, have fun :)
    Gorobei Kaligawa: take good care
    Gorobei Kaligawa: thanks for the tea
    Fael Illyar: we have meetings every day 4 times.
    genesis Zhangsun: bye gorbei!
    Fael Illyar: 1am,7am,1pm,7pm SLT
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Fael...
    genesis Zhangsun: could I ask you a BIG favor?
    genesis Zhangsun: I really have to run back to studies now
    genesis Zhangsun: would you mind posting the session?
    Gorobei Kaligawa: I don't know what's sl time
    Gorobei Kaligawa: me?
    Fael Illyar: I suppose I could.
    genesis Zhangsun: Thank you for last week by the way
    Gorobei Kaligawa: what you study?
    genesis Zhangsun: law
    Fael Illyar: the time that shows on the upper right corner of your SL window.
    Fael Illyar: should say 2:09 PM now
    genesis Zhangsun: Nice to meet you Udge
    genesis Zhangsun: and Gorbei
    genesis Zhangsun: I am off now
    Fael Illyar: See you again Gen :)
    genesis Zhangsun: and thank Fael
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry *thanks
    genesis Zhangsun: See you later Fael!
    Udge Watanabe: back
    Fael Illyar: Well, the meeting seems to be mostly over :)
    Udge Watanabe: I missed a lot, it gets harder for me to sit still towards night.
    Udge Watanabe: today is especially ... irritated.
    Gorobei Kaligawa: but it's day outside lol
    Udge Watanabe: depends where you are. lol
    Fael Illyar: It's midnight in Finland
    Gorobei Kaligawa: that's not right
    Udge Watanabe: anyway, RL calls. Must get to bed.
    Fael Illyar: that's where I'm from
    Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
    Fael Illyar: See you later Udge :)
    Gorobei Kaligawa: finland?
    Udge Watanabe: Take care, Fael, nice meeeting you Gorobei
    Fael Illyar: Yes, Finland
    Gorobei Kaligawa: nice meating
    Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
    Gorobei Kaligawa: take care
    Udge Watanabe: bah
    Udge Watanabe: can't TP out
    Fael Illyar: Bye Gorobei

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