2008.07.26 01:00 - Meeting each other in a different world?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fael Illyar. The comments are Fael's.

    When I arrived, Adelene was already there but apparently away.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Adelene
    Faenik: ah :)

    A few minutes later, Bert appeared

     Fael Illyar: Hi Bert
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Fael
    Faenik: why not?
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Adelene
    Bertrum Quan: How is your vacation going?
    Fael Illyar: It's going ok, unless you count some loose bowels not ok :)
    Bertrum Quan: Hope the latter improves!
    Fael Illyar: Hopefully :)
    Fael Illyar: How about you?
    Bertrum Quan: I'm doing okay. Not on vaction though.
    Bertrum Quan: Do you know if Pema will be attending?
    Fael Illyar: That might still be possible. Although I suspect he might be taking the chance to sleep early since this is my slot now.
    Faenik: indeed?

    There seems to be a lot going on while I've been taking a short holiday and attending less often. I wonder if it'd be the same any week.

    Bertrum Quan: There were many interesting emails today! Have youo read them?
    Bertrum Quan: you
    Fael Illyar: At least some of them
    Fael Illyar: I haven't read my email since around 9 hours.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Bertrum Quan: Pema had an intense session with Maxine and Doug. Very useful discussion, I thought. Have you read the wiki?
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I did read some of it. Not completely though, I got distracted in middle.
    Bertrum Quan: Best to read the entire posting...
    Fael Illyar: I probably will. Did you notice the part I added to one of the 1PM logs in the wiki? Where I talked with Avastu.
    Fael Illyar: it was 2 or 3 days ago I think, Storm's session
    Bertrum Quan: I'm not sure I read that.
    Fael Illyar: I thought it was interesting, although might be slightly confusing. That's usual if you talk with Avastu though :)
    Bertrum Quan: About today's emails, there was some discussion about having an automatic recording of these sessions--not having to use (and edit) the wiki

    Feels sort of funny to be asked for opinion when the original idea is from me. Although, I haven't said anything on the general Guardian mailing list. Only in the technical discussion about the idea on pabwiki list.

    Bertrum Quan: What are your feelings about that>
    Fael Illyar: I doubt editing is going anywhere :)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: Just would do a big part of the work we do manually right now.
    Bertrum Quan: For me, I'd like the automated system if they can make it work.
    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar: playasbein mailing list has only part of the discussion. Technical talks concerning how it could be done were had in the pabwiki list.
    Fael Illyar: I actually started the thread by thinking about making a scripted object for doing the recording that we could activate and deactivate but the topic soon shifted to doing as close to full automation as possible.
    Bertrum Quan: That would be good if it happens, Automation will advance the sustainability of PaB.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, the less manual work, the better things will tend to progress, this being a volunteer run group.
    Faenik: could be
    Bertrum Quan: Right.
    Fael Illyar: It'll give people time to use on other things. Some of which will likely be other PaB things
    Bertrum Quan: Pema pointed out the the wiki logs are also not uniform now,,, that's a problem that would be solved vi automation,
    Bertrum Quan: via
    Fael Illyar: Yes, that's the reason I started thinking about making anything.
    Bertrum Quan: Adelene, are we leaving you out of the discussion?

    Bertrum notices Adelene hasn't said a thing.

    Fael Illyar: I doubt Adelene is there. I haven't seen a single line out of her.
    Bertrum Quan: Oh.
    Bertrum Quan: Last night's session had an away feel to it...
    Fael Illyar: away feel?
    Bertrum Quan: It didn't seem that the conversation went anywhere I could follow.
    Fael Illyar: Ah, that happens sometimes. what was it about?
    Bertrum Quan: I don't know, really. It was Pema, you, Rajah, (someone else--don't remember the name) and me...
    Bertrum Quan: But I could really follow the discussion...
    Fael Illyar: ah, right, I was there.
    Fael Illyar: I don't remember the topic though ...
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Bertrum Quan: I'm not sure there was one.
    Fael Illyar: yes, could be there wasn't
    Bertrum Quan: I felt if I brought one up though, I would be intruding. So I stayed quiet...
    Bertrum Quan: Sometimes it's hard to know...
    Fael Illyar: It's usually a good idea to ask if you can't figure it out :)
    Bertrum Quan: Couldn't figure it out!
    Faenik: ah :)
    Fael Illyar: It's often a source of new ideas when you have to explain things to someone who doesn't understand :)
    Bertrum Quan: What was your sense of the discussion?
    Fael Illyar: I don't remember what we talked about :)
    Fael Illyar: so ... probably similar

    I'm getting curious rereading this session now and the chatlog is posted too... I'll have to go read that now :)

    Bertrum Quan: Back to the automated system. Moving the meeting was discussed in the emails. Will we be moving soon?
    Fael Illyar: Depends on Storm I guess, he needs to make a new place first.
    Bertrum Quan: Storm's amazing.
    Bertrum Quan: It'll probaby be soon then...
    Fael Illyar: it'll probably take a week at least,
    Bertrum Quan: Another interesting item came up in the e-mail. The in-person meeting!
    Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, Pema wants people to meet in RL :)
    Faenik loves wells!
    Bertrum Quan: It's an exciting idea.
    Fael Illyar: It has it's merits. :)
    Fael Illyar: some people might be shockingly different in RL though.
    Bertrum Quan: True. But some will probably have similar characteristics.
    Fael Illyar: Of course :) Similarities will be there with everyone I guess :)
    Fael Illyar: At least in the way we act.
    Bertrum Quan: Yes.
    Bertrum Quan: Do you see it as undercutting PaB in SL?
    Fael Illyar: something like that happening once a year? perhaps not.
    Fael Illyar: it's too complex issue to be really able to say what it will do, if anything.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Bertrum Quan: I wonder about the "interpersonal dynamic" changing when the meeting is held in RL. The level of abstrraction is gone forever!

    Worry that something important will change perhaps?

    Bertrum Quan: abstraction.
    Fael Illyar: abstraction?
    Fael Illyar: Yes, you get to see the surface things that for some reason aren't visible in SL.
    Bertrum Quan: It take the virtual world and the SL magic, and reveals the RL identities. I wonder about the impact of that on SL.
    Fael Illyar: although, some have more or less separate personalities even.
    Fael Illyar: I've recently realized I have more of that than I thought.
    Fael Illyar: different personality when in SL
    Bertrum Quan: Yes, I understand.
    Bertrum Quan: So, it might change the way people see you in SL?
    Fael Illyar: perhaps, although, when meeting in RL, you're not meeting the exact same people in some ways. In other ways you are though.
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: I guess it comes down to how well you can see that.
    Fael Illyar: I guess some of us here have AVs modeled very closely after their RL selves here?
    Fael Illyar: in those cases the personality difference tends to be less.
    Bertrum Quan: It may change things more significantly ...
    Fael Illyar: certainly possible. Very hard to say how though :)
    Bertrum Quan: Creates new bonds based on RL interaction.
    Bertrum Quan: It could create a situation similar to video conferencing.
    Bertrum Quan: You generally work/know the people you are meeting with. You use the medium to interact with visuals.
    Bertrum Quan: Not a virtual world interaction at all, however.
    Bertrum Quan: Does that make any sense?

    RL meeting and SL meeting compared and comparing the RL meeting to video conferencing ... This feels somewhat strange comparison rereading this now.

    Fael Illyar: My own experiences of video conferencing have been... well, rather disappointing. I much prefer audio-only over those.
    Bertrum Quan: I agree. But my point is the SL experience will significantly change.
    Bertrum Quan: The in-person meeting will have implications.
    Faenik: ah :)
    Bertrum Quan: I'm sure Pema has thought it all out.
    Bertrum Quan: I'm just speculating about the unintended consequences...
    Fael Illyar: A lot of virtual communities hold RL gatherings once or twice a year.
    Fael Illyar: Well, looks like I crashed
    Bertrum Quan: Welcome back!
    Fael Illyar: I most likely missed your last few lines
    Bertrum Quan: How far back does you log go?
    Fael Illyar: I remember seeing you writing something just before I crashed.
    Fael Illyar: I commented on a lot of virtual communities holding RL gatherings once or twice a year last
    Fael Illyar: after that I didn't see anything
    Bertrum Quan: I commented that may be the case. But I wonder if these RL meetings change the nature of those communities. Whether there are unintended consequences...
    Fael Illyar: unintended consequences follow, what ever we do :)
    Bertrum Quan: Well, that's a good place to leave the speculation on this point!
    Faenik: ah :)
    Bertrum Quan: I do need to sign off now for the night. Always good to talk with you.
    Fael Illyar: Ok, Good night Bert :)
    Fael Illyar: Well, that's it for this meeting I guess.

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