2008.07.28 07:00 - Open Source

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    That morning, a triple-A group of guardians, Adams, Adelene, and Avastu, is already present at the pavilion when I arrive.

    Pema Pera: Good morning!
    Avastu Maruti: hello again my friend
    Adams Rubble: Hello Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Adelene!
    Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
    Adams Rubble: Hello Avastu
    Adelene Dawner: ‘lo :)
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Adams Rubble: Hello Adelene
    Pema Pera: Has everybody here met each other yet?
    Adams Rubble: I haven’t met Adelene yet but I have read her poetry
    Adelene Dawner: I don’t think I’ve met Adams…
    Adams Rubble: nice to meet you Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Pema Pera: Adelene just accepted our invitation to become a guardian — thank you, Adelene!
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Adelene Dawner: …still somewhat word-impaired, sorry :)
    Pema Pera: It is so nice to see everyone bringing in his or her unique point of view
    Adelene Dawner should be back to ‘normal’ tomorrow.
    Pema Pera: just the four of us here, so different already :-)
    Pema Pera: Yes, Adelene
    Pema Pera: you mentioned that to me earlier
    Pema Pera: is this something that happens to you occasionally
    Pema Pera: for a few days at a time?
    Pema Pera: I like the way your avatar is weaving words . . . .
    Adelene Dawner: A bit more than ‘occasionally’, though it’s not an all-the-time thing. My brainstate tends to be un-constant in general… most specific states last three days plus one sleep.
    Pema Pera: it must be quite a challenge to live with that . . . I’m not sure what words to use here
    Adelene Dawner: (So for example, when I had that intense being-Being experience last Tuesday night, it lasted into Wednesday, then the aftereffects went on through Thursday and Friday, and I was back to normal when I woke up Saturday.
    Pema Pera: ah, three days holds as a duration, typically for most transitions?
    Adelene Dawner: Not really too challenging. I’m used to it. And it has its upside, too… strong emotional states follow that rule as well, for example, so even if something really upsets me I know that it’ll pass, all I have to do is wait it out.
    Adelene Dawner: ‘Transitions’ isn’t accurate, but the three days is a very recurring theme.

    I mention Adams’ blog.

    Pema Pera: Three days is an interesting duration — Two days ago I asked Adams to do something for three days. . . even overlapping with my previous three-day advise :) And reading your blog, Adams, it seems you’ve been at it!
    Pema Pera: http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress.com/
    Adams Rubble is not sure how to respond
    Pema Pera: you don’t have to
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: until you feel ready to
    Pema Pera: I am so impressed that you are willing to continue to write
    Pema Pera: even though you are going through experiences that are almost un-write-about-able :)
    Pema Pera: especially while they occur
    Pema Pera: much easier to write a few days later looking back
    Pema Pera: but then filtered through memory
    Pema Pera: I thoroughly admire your courage
    Pema Pera: to write about them while you are going through them,
    Pema Pera: and believe me, it shines through . . . far more than you may think . . . . not even so much what you write but the way in which you write it
    Pema Pera: thank you. Adams!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: I’m sure Cal will be pleased to :)
    Pema Pera: I can just see her wise cracking about it :>)
    Adams Rubble: Things are still a little mixed. I haven’t told you, maybe I didn;t recognize them earlier, that I still have some negative feelings bout our talk last Saturday
    Adams Rubble: As you say, a little time helps sort that out
    Pema Pera: please let me know, I would love to hear
    Pema Pera: honestly
    Adams Rubble: I still feel some resentment and some suspicion that wasn’t there before

    Doc drops by, and I see from his profile that Japanese is one of his languages.

    Pema Pera: Hi Doc!
    Doc Freenote: hi
    Adams Rubble: Hello Doc
    Pema Pera: come join us
    Doc Freenote: i am waiting for someone to say “whats up doc”
    Doc Freenote: thanks
    Adams Rubble: hehe. I was resisting doing it
    Doc Freenote: what is going on here
    Pema Pera: haha, yes
    Pema Pera: we are getting together a few times a day
    Pema Pera: talking about the nature of reality
    Doc Freenote: sounds heavy
    Doc Freenote: but interesting
    Pema Pera: 日本語を話しますか?
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ is our web site
    Pema Pera: not so heavy
    Doc Freenote: 話せるよ
    Pema Pera: it is called Play as Being
    Pema Pera: ああ凄い
    Pema Pera: 日本人ですか?
    Doc Freenote: どうだどう
    Doc Freenote: 日本人ではありません

    At that moment, I hit a wrong key combination, and next thing I know is that I’m back at my home position, in front of my little hut, which happens to be only 50 meters or so from the pavilion. I quickly walk back to the circle. I then answer Doc question, whether I am Japanese, after Doc told me he isn’t Japanese either.

    Pema Pera: sorry about that!
    Doc Freenote: 日本人ですか
    Pema Pera: the conversion key between Japanese and English is close to the “go home” key
    Pema Pera: fortunately my home is just around the corner :)
    Doc Freenote: i see
    Pema Pera: No, I am not Japanese, I am from Holland
    Pema Pera: Briefly, we explore a kind of practice or exploration
    Doc Freenote: but you speak japanese well it seems
    Doc Freenote: can everyone here speak japanese?
    Pema Pera: dropping what we normally identify with
    Pema Pera: where we spend 9 seconds every 15 minutes in daily life and/or here in SL
    Adams Rubble thinks Pema is fluent in many kinds of languages
    Pema Pera: no, just me
    Pema Pera: and a few others who aren’t here yet
    Pema Pera: and four times a day we get together here to reflect on our explorations
    Doc Freenote: i don’t really follow
    Doc Freenote: about the first part
    Pema Pera: Play as Being : play means we do it lightly, but still seriously
    Pema Pera: Being is what we are interested
    Pema Pera: when you drop what you have, you may find what you are
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ will give more background
    Doc Freenote: this sounds Heideggerian
    Pema Pera: It touches on that as well as the core of most religions as well as what I think science is move too over the centuries
    Pema Pera: if you don’t mind
    Pema Pera: perhaps Adams can continue her story
    Pema Pera: about a discussion we had two days ago
    Doc Freenote: please
    Pema Pera: a bit more intense than most discussions
    Doc Freenote: sorry to intrude. . . i can observe . . .
    Doc Freenote: listen
    Pema Pera: thanks, Doc — this is an open meeting
    Pema Pera: anyone is free to come and go, any time
    Doc Freenote: i see

    Back to Adams.

    Adams Rubble: Maybe it is too soon to talk about it Pema but I thought you should know that the feelings are there.
    Doc Freenote: can i have that web address again though?
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
    Doc Freenote: or is there some way to see my chat history?
    Pema Pera: yes there is
    Adams Rubble: I find myself wondering why you were suddenly so harsh and I guess I am not completely accepting that it is Being talking
    Pema Pera: click on “communicate” in the lower left corner
    Pema Pera: then “local chat” is the label at the bottom of the window that opens up
    Pema Pera: it has the whole history of your session
    Doc Freenote: ah, got it thanks!
    Adams Rubble: The feelings are not as strong as they were on Saturday night but they are there lurking
    Adams Rubble: I thought you should know because maybe it is the wrong technique
    Adams Rubble: or maybe in time it will work out
    Pema Pera: edit->preferences->communication and then click on all boxes to mark them except the top one — that lets you record everything onto your hard disk, Doc
    Pema Pera: yes, we’ll see Adams, how it will work out, but definitely, I’d like to know about them
    Doc Freenote: thanks
    Adams Rubble: I think I told you :)
    Adams Rubble: The experience Saturday night was extraordinary though
    Pema Pera: what is it especially, can you put your finger on it, what caused, say, resentment? Yes, you mentioned it — the fact that I came on so strong, or that I gave different instructions at different times or . . . .?

    We talk about harshness.

    Adams Rubble: The resentment is to the harshness; I thought it wasn’t necessary
    Pema Pera: ah, thank you!
    Pema Pera: If I may, I can describe from my side what I felt
    Adams Rubble: The instructions turned out to be perfect
    Pema Pera: but I have to speak two languages
    Pema Pera: In the language of identifying me with Pema Pera / Piet Hut as the roles I am playing here in SL and RL
    Adelene Dawner: Sometimes it’s necessary to be harsh, and often it’s hard to tell whether it’s necessary or not. Pema’s human and falable just like the rest of us.
    Pema Pera: the harshness was simply a way to push through a kind of barrier
    Pema Pera: yes, indeed Adelene
    Pema Pera: looking back, I am 95% sure it was the right thing
    Pema Pera: and 5% unsure
    Adams Rubble knows that, but thank you Adeline :)
    Pema Pera: how do I know?
    Pema Pera: both my own experience and that of others
    Pema Pera: I have been pushed myself by many different teachers
    Pema Pera: face-to-face
    Pema Pera: in dreams sometimes
    Pema Pera: through books sometimes
    Pema Pera: just walking on the street sometimes
    Pema Pera: I’d be happy to say more, at some other occasion
    Pema Pera: and I’ve seen very many others being pushed
    Pema Pera: where I was present myself in RL
    Pema Pera: or having read about them in historical accounts
    Pema Pera: but this is all the one language I talked about
    Pema Pera: Now let me tell the story in the other language
    Pema Pera: The language of what I call Being
    Pema Pera: what I did while I was talking was not calculating
    Pema Pera: or judging
    Pema Pera: or thinking “what would help Adams”
    Pema Pera: if I had done that, I would not have said anything at all
    Pema Pera: who am I to know/judge?
    Pema Pera: I’ve never met you in person, I’m talking from av to av
    Pema Pera: how can I possibly take the risk to speak so harshly
    Pema Pera: across all these communication barriers?
    Pema Pera: However, I did not do anything but
    Pema Pera: stepping aside
    Pema Pera: very literally so
    Pema Pera: I was watching while I was typing
    Pema Pera: and I was equally amazed at and interested in each sentence as it came out
    Pema Pera: if at any time I would have wanted to steer, making what I said less hars or more harsh or anything else
    Pema Pera: I would have done grave violence to the situation
    Pema Pera: so I had no choice
    Pema Pera: I was like a passenger in a jet
    Pema Pera: watching over the shoulder of the pilot
    Pema Pera: I was in no position to hijack the plane :-)
    Pema Pera: and I trusted what happened
    Pema Pera: I have learned to trust that over the years and decades
    Pema Pera: The only role of the first language is to look back and do a kind of customer’s check
    Pema Pera: like “was that the right airline to take?”
    Pema Pera: and so far so good — seems like it was :)
    Pema Pera: Does that make any sense, Adams?

    It must have been a somewhat puzzling conversation for Doc.

    Doc Freenote: can i ask the context of all this? what happened? an impartial perspective might be useful
    Pema Pera: http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress.com/ is her blog, Doc
    Adams Rubble: Especially from what you said, it is important for me to understand this…
    Adams Rubble: one thing you are saying was that this was kind of impersonal
    Adams Rubble: but still directed at me
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: at the impersonal Being represented by you
    Adams Rubble: that is a bit of a paradox for me but I will think about that
    Pema Pera: that wanted to come out
    Pema Pera: hidden a bit still in you
    Pema Pera: under the bandaids
    Pema Pera: I was pulling off some bandaids
    Adelene Dawner: Sounds like it was personally directed to Adams but not personally coming from Pema. :)
    Pema Pera: we used that image literally
    Adams Rubble: The bandaid analogy is better than the dentist one :)
    Pema Pera: hahaha, yes
    Pema Pera: just wanted to show you that I had still only been very meek in comparison to going full throttle :)
    Pema Pera: I think that was Cal’s image, the bandaid one, wasn’t it?
    Pema Pera: Yes, Adelene, not personally coming from me, for sure!
    Adams Rubble doesn’t remember all the details
    Adams Rubble: Well, from what you said, then you understand the residual feelings
    Pema Pera: of course I did!
    Adams Rubble: I guess that was a question
    Adams Rubble: Ah
    Pema Pera: As I emailed you, I would not have believed you if you said you didn’t
    Pema Pera: I would in your case
    Pema Pera: if you had said you didn’t I would have had to hammer harder, to get through THAT denial :)
    Adams Rubble: Oh my
    Pema Pera: perhaps take my dentist drill haha — sorry to joke about it –
    Pema Pera: but I’m very glad you could be so honest
    Adams Rubble: no no, you should drop the dentist
    Pema Pera: and show your honest feelings
    Pema Pera: hahaha, no need for dentist now
    Adams Rubble: first I wasn;t in evident pain…
    Adams Rubble: secondly dentists fix teeth…not pull them
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: may I quote a few lines, Adams?
    Pema Pera: from that conversation
    Pema Pera: btw, Doc, we put most of what we talk about here on our web site, on the blog
    Pema Pera: is it okay to include your part of the conversation too?
    Doc Freenote: on your blog?
    Doc Freenote: this is interesting . . .from what i gather, it gets at the imperfect nature of language and communication
    Adams Rubble: and yes, Pema, go on
    Adams Rubble: please

    Doc’s questions give us an extra opening to clarify ourselves.

    Doc Freenote: is this therapy or training with Pema as guru?
    Adams Rubble: Doc, just let me interject that out conversations usually aren’t as intense as this one. It is not a good one to understand us in that way. We usually share more gently. But this is necessary :)
    Doc Freenote: i think when a zen monk thwacks his student he is not called on to justify himself
    Adams Rubble: Pema, I am sorry that I used the interjection before the door handle
    Adams Rubble: I am not zen, Doc
    Pema Pera: no, I’m not a guru or teacher in any way, Doc
    Doc Freenote: i see
    Pema Pera: I am a scientist
    Pema Pera: and an open source programmer
    Pema Pera: I like “open source” and full disclosure
    Pema Pera: a new mode of dealing with old teachings
    Doc Freenote: but your role here seems somewhat didactic
    Pema Pera: I have learned enough about the old teachings over the years that I could play the role of a teacher if I wanted
    Adams Rubble: Doc, that is what I am trying to understand with this conversation
    Pema Pera: but I don’t want to do that
    Pema Pera: would be too limited
    Pema Pera: I am trying to explore a whole new approach
    Pema Pera: the image of a fish and a fishing rod comes to mind
    Pema Pera: teaching is like giving someone a fishing rod
    Pema Pera: better than a fish
    Pema Pera: what I’m doing is trying to establish a fishing rod factory
    Pema Pera: a new approach to teaching, as a groups process, as open source
    Pema Pera: not like microsoft, more like Linux
    Doc Freenote: but ultimately we learn to fish on our own
    Pema Pera: of course
    Doc Freenote: it is not the rod that catches the fish
    Pema Pera: sure
    Pema Pera: traditionally, a teacher showed you — perhaps in this day and age, a group of peers is a better way, or at least an alternative way, to show each other how to find and use fishing rods
    Doc Freenote: i grasp your concept, but from what i have observed, there does not seem to be a lot of back and forth / collaboration
    Pema Pera: so you’re right, if I were a Zen teacher I would not justify myself, but in PaB here, I do want to justify, to the extent I can
    Pema Pera: can you say more, Doc?
    Doc Freenote: well, just from my observation
    Doc Freenote: brief as it has been
    Doc Freenote: my sense is that you are deeply invested in your approach
    Pema Pera: in an open source collaboration, there are brief moments in which one more experienced programmer sets up something, for others to work on and with further
    Doc Freenote: and you feel quite justified about what you wrote
    Pema Pera: so you are seeing a snapshot
    Doc Freenote: to adams
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: and I am willing to stand corrected
    Doc Freenote: i see
    Pema Pera: sorry to talk so much right now — but texting is slow, and I wanted to give a complete answer

    Having mentioned the open nature of our enterprise, I invited other voices to come in, even though Adelene had already hers a few times.

    Pema Pera: Adelene and Avastu, what do you think?
    Doc Freenote: yes, my observations are somewhat dangerous because they are based on such limited exposure
    Pema Pera: we hope you’ll be coming back :)
    Pema Pera: I’d love to hear from both Avastu and Adelene how what I say fits with their understanding
    Pema Pera: what they recognize
    Doc Freenote: yeah you guys are silent
    Avastu Maruti: you are doing fine, my friend
    Pema Pera: http://avastu0.blogspot.com/ is Avastu’s blog, very much worth reading
    Adams Rubble thinks she was collaborating
    Avastu Maruti: beliefs become hard - sometimes a hammer is necessary to break through
    Pema Pera: yes, you were Adams
    Pema Pera: and I appreciate that very much!
    Pema Pera: Adelene, shall I give a blog URL for you too?
    Pema Pera: in http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/being-is-seeing-being/ there are several URLs
    Doc Freenote: thanks
    Pema Pera: relevant for Adelene’s background
    Adelene Dawner is not here, in IM with Gaya, moderately important, sorry.
    Pema Pera: fine, Adelene!
    Pema Pera: so now you have pointers to all of us, Doc :)
    Doc Freenote: i just checked out Avastu’s
    Pema Pera: Avastu has his own group here in SL
    Doc Freenote: interesting. kind of eerie, i had a thought similar to some of the ideas expressed there just about an hour ago
    Pema Pera: can you say more?
    Doc Freenote: well it is a concept that i have kicked around for a while
    Doc Freenote: but always hard to remember
    Pema Pera: oops
    Pema Pera: I have to go to an astro meeting
    Pema Pera: sorry
    Pema Pera: completely forgot the time
    Pema Pera: already 3 minutes late
    Pema Pera: this was too interesting!
    Doc Freenote: something like samsara=nibbana
    Adams Rubble: bye Pema
    Pema Pera: Adams, can you send me the chat log later?
    Doc Freenote: being human
    Pema Pera: I do want to hear what Doc said
    Pema Pera: sorry again — c u all later!
    Doc Freenote: hard to convey
    Adams Rubble: yes Pema
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Doc Freenote: leaving?
    Adams Rubble: Yes, Doc. He is leaving but if you finish, I will send him the log
    Doc Freenote: okay
    Doc Freenote: thanks, , , see ya pema

    The rest of the log was supplied by Adams Rubble with just one comment

    Doc Freenote: the thing is i think it is just perhaps a concept that comes from a kind of perhaps orientalist view of buddhism
    Doc Freenote: anyways
    Doc Freenote: this time it was not in buddhist terms
    Doc Freenote: i don't really think in those terms anymore
    Doc Freenote: but just the idea is that being human is sometimes suffering and drama
    Doc Freenote: and it doesn't matter
    Doc Freenote: that is being human
    Doc Freenote: it is not MY suffering or anything
    Doc Freenote: it is just human stuff
    Doc Freenote: so there is an idea of being able to let go more easily with that concept in mind
    Doc Freenote: some of the stuff on your blog reminded me of this when i scanned it
    Avastu Maruti: yes
    Doc Freenote: but it is all easy to postulate
    Doc Freenote: the important thing is good habits isn't it
    Doc Freenote: habits of calmness and centerdness
    Doc Freenote: and sleep and wakefullness
    Doc Freenote: what do you think?
    Avastu Maruti: IN WHAT does this human experience happen?
    Doc Freenote: our minds?
    Avastu Maruti: isn't the mind part of this experience?
    Doc Freenote: sure
    Doc Freenote: but what are you getting at?
    Avastu Maruti: what is the truth of your existence?
    Doc Freenote: that is all so pie in the sky. . . truth of your existence is a phrase without much meaning to me
    Avastu Maruti: of course
    Doc Freenote: the truth though is ups and downs
    Doc Freenote: and ideally it is practicing some kind of peace
    Doc Freenote: of mind and spirit and action
    Avastu Maruti: does Peace need practicing?
    Doc Freenote: well i think peace is a practice
    Avastu Maruti: who thinks?
    Avastu Maruti: aren't thoughts arising in awareness?
    Avastu Maruti: who is the thinker?
    Doc Freenote: who cares
    Avastu Maruti: exactly
    Doc Freenote: why do you ask then
    Avastu Maruti: why do I ask what?
    Doc Freenote: who is the thinker
    Avastu Maruti: I am not asking "you"
    Doc Freenote: sure, i know
    Doc Freenote: i mean why ask the question in general
    Avastu Maruti: questions come, answers come - what I AM, what YOU ARE, is not affected
    Adams Rubble: Yes
    Doc Freenote: okay, , ,
    Doc Freenote: so?
    Avastu Maruti: so what?
    Doc Freenote: great tune
    Doc Freenote: think i am going to spin that in itunes
    Doc Freenote: you guys know that one?
    Doc Freenote: miles
    Avastu Maruti: not sure what you're speaking ok
    Avastu Maruti: *of
    Adams Rubble: me neither
    Doc Freenote: a tune by miles davis on Kind of Blue: So What
    Doc Freenote: sorry
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Doc Freenote: unbelievable song
    Doc Freenote: a zen paining
    Doc Freenote: painting
    Adams Rubble likes that typo
    Doc Freenote: haha
    Doc Freenote: it could easily fill in for the chimes in this room
    Adams Rubble wonders what Avastu's hammer might look like
    Doc Freenote: hammer?
    Adams Rubble: Avastu said that sometimes a hammer is needed to break through resistance
    Adams Rubble: Avastu does very well without a hammer :)
    Adams Rubble: That is said with great respect
    Doc misunderstands me and thinks I am referring to him when I was reflecting on myself
    Doc Freenote: do i need to be hammered?
    Adams Rubble: Please don;t take that personally
    Doc Freenote: how could i
    Adams Rubble: I was talking in generalities
    Doc Freenote: the thing is
    Doc Freenote: why is a hammer ever necessary, unless it is a case where we are trying to get through to someone we are really invested in
    Doc Freenote: i will leave here with my view of the world and you each with your own
    Doc Freenote: which is the nature of the world
    Doc Freenote: so my sense is that if someone has a strong desire to hammer through to reach someone
    Doc Freenote: there has to be some kind of real need for a relationship there or something. a need for respect . . .
    Doc Freenote: i don't think it is possible to take anything "personal" in SL
    Doc Freenote: do you?
    Adams Rubble: But people do all the time
    Doc Freenote: really?
    Adams Rubble: Yes
    Doc Freenote: bizarre
    Doc Freenote: well, don't take this personally, but I have to hit they hay
    Adams Rubble: We form relationships in SL much like in RL
    Doc Freenote: i see
    Adams Rubble: Wll, it was nice meeting you, Doc :)
    Doc Freenote: likewise
    Adams Rubble: bye :)
    Doc Freenote: bye
    Doc Freenote: see ya Avatsu
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Doc Freenote: so long
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Doc Freenote: whoa, i think my legs fell asleep
    Adams Rubble: Avastu, it is good to see you again. I need to go now. Take care :)
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Adams Rubble: bye :)
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