2008.07.31 19:00 - Faith or Knowing?

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    Pia Iger was the guardian on call (a.k.a. GOC). And she received below prompt reminder by our new GOC caller:)

    [18:58] Adelene Dawner:  *poke* ^.^

    Arriving at Pavilion and meeting Starseed and Adelene. The latter is a big purple light ball. Fred came the next.

    Adelene Dawner: 'lo Pia ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: [19:02] Adelene Dawner is moderately distracted reading about magnetic implants on her other screen.
    Starseed Xue: Hi Pia
    Pia Iger:Hi, Adelene, Starseed,
    Pia Iger:How is it going? Starseed? Still be happy, don't worry:)
    Starseed Xue: haha
    Starseed Xue: always
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hi everyone
    Starseed Xue: Hi Frie
    Adelene Dawner: 'lo Fred
    Pia Iger:Never difficulty to be happy?
    Pia Iger:Hi, Fred. I am probing Starseed's secrets to "already be happy, don't worry"..
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i liked something storm said the other day, about knowing how to be happy /now/ is sufficient, if all that exists is the present
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (paraphrasing)
    Pia Iger:do you find it very workable?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: not worrying?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: most of the time ;-)
    Pia Iger:Today I did have a moment of realization: when I was upset or worried, I have looked away from the present, the NOW and HERE.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: that's a nice twist.
    Pia Iger:If I come back to what is present, I found the worries and upsets are just in mind, and "illusion" so to speak.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i suppose, in the limit, the absolute present is outside of here and now, but that's great
    Pia Iger:outside of here and now? not sure if I understand it.

    Fred switched the topic to new YSBS practice.

    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: have you been playing with the new practices?
    Pia Iger:a little. YOu?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: a handful. it is certainly powerful, i have gotten that far.
    Pia Iger:really? I am surprised you said "powerful"!
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, potent. a rush.
    Pia Iger:can you give a bit more details?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, i have had the sensation of zooming out into the universe until i am a spec of nothingness
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: maybe not quite, but that's what i was imagining/aiming for
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: anyway, potent.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: not sure if i completely agree with the characterizations shared on the site - not about the experiences, but about recommendations for submitting entirely to Being
    Pia Iger:Maybe it was one kind of wording " submitting entirely to Being", sound quite religious, but I don't think they meant it that way. It is really hard to put Being in words, you know.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i think it’s an important phase of a cycle.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but yes. words don't help that much.
    Pia Iger:What you said about your experience is quite valid to me. ( it reminds me a pic of National Geographic)

    or on Discovery Channel!

    Pia Iger: more scientific than spiritual.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: if you insist
    Pia Iger don't insist:)
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what sounds religious about submitting to Being?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (teasing)
    Pia Iger: it sounds similar to "surrender to God", that religious preaching.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes, i think that's related.
    Pia Iger: as Being is something higher than us.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: maybe even derived from a similar experience?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: poof!

    Starseed poofed for a second, then returned and shared his meditation experience.

    Pia Iger: Some people have quite religious images.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: Adelene: I just realized you were an avatar, not an object! I've been sitting next to a ball
    Adelene Dawner: Here!
    Starseed Xue: I’m back
    Starseed Xue: =D
    Pia Iger:wb, Starseed.
    Starseed Xue: ty
    Starseed Xue: today when i was meditating
    Adelene Dawner: No worries, Fred. I'm less than 'here' at any rate.
    Starseed Xue: time became irrelevant
    Starseed Xue: usually when i meditate i try to focus on my breathe and clear my head
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: ;-). yes, you dnodded off.
    Starseed Xue: but today i decided to really listen to my thoughts
    Pia Iger:that is a step forward, sounds like.
    Starseed Xue: perhaps
    Starseed Xue: it felt good anyway
    Pia Iger:Do you notice anything new from the thoughts?
    Starseed Xue: yes
    Starseed Xue: happiness
    Pia Iger wonders if Starsees ever has any unhappiness.
    Pia Iger:(teasing)
    Starseed Xue: of course

    Starseed opened up more about himself. Neela and Stevenia joined us one by one.

    Starseed Xue: i have recovered from a major mental illness
    Neela Blaisdale: Hello everyone
    Starseed Xue: by faith and meditation
    Adelene Dawner is 'here' now.
    Starseed Xue: and meds of course
    Starseed Xue: hi Neela
    Pia Iger:Hi, Neela,
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn is Offline
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn is Online
    Adelene Dawner: I'm not going to push, Star - lord knows I wouldn't take kindly to being pushed about my own similar history - but I'm interested in hearing more, if you'd like to share.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: pardon me...
    Pia Iger:Wb, Fred
    Starseed Xue: i dont know what else to say, if you have a question i can try to answer
    Pia Iger:Yes. I am not sure to ask more from Starseed or not, in SL it is hard to see if it is proper.
    Adelene Dawner thinks carefully before responding.
    Starseed Xue: i dont mind talking about it
    Adelene Dawner: My story is a bit convoluted, but the relevant bit is that I had a very, very bad experience with the psychiatric profession, specifically related to meds. I'm curious to hear from someone whose experience with them was so different from my own.
    stevenaia Michinaga is Online
    Starseed Xue: it took a few years for me to find the right meds
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh. or perhaps you will find resonance and support ;-)
    Adelene Dawner suggests to Fred that he not try to comment on a sensitive situation that he knows so little about. :|

    Mmm, it was quite sensitive, though I was very curious about their recovery. A lot silence in between our conversation.

    Pia Iger:I was curious when you said "recovered ... from faith". What is the faith?
    Starseed Xue: faith that i would recover
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: sorry, i think i may have been misunderstood. i meant that others might have similar experiences, not necessarily different ones.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: my apologies
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Starseed Xue: its ok Fried
    Adelene Dawner nods, not upset.
    Neela Blaisdale: Hi Steven
    Pia Iger:Do you mind to tell us how long it took to recover?
    Pia Iger:(waves to Steve)
    Starseed Xue: about 5 years of experimenting with meds
    Starseed Xue: and going in and out of the hospital
    Adelene Dawner: In my case, the faith that got me through - I wouldn't've even called it faith, at the time. It was just a knowing... knowing that there was a reason I was in the world, that there was a reason to keep going, to survive.
    Starseed Xue: and how are you today, Adelene?
    Adelene Dawner: Well, when I'm not poking at old wounds every few days like I have been recently, I'm fine. The issue was situational, not biochemical.
    Starseed Xue: i see
    stevenaia Michinaga: is Adelene purple ball tonight or am I still rezzing?
    Adelene Dawner is definitively purple and reflective and enigmatic. ^.^
    Pia Iger:Sorry if I have too many question. Starseed, how did you start meditation?
    Starseed Xue: thats a good question
    Starseed Xue: my thoughts were very negative at one point
    Starseed Xue: and i felt driven to face them head on
    Starseed Xue: i knew i could change them
    Starseed Xue: so i became interested in watching my thoughts, basically
    Starseed Xue: does that answer your question?
    Starseed Xue: if you took away all the technology
    Starseed Xue: and all the distractions
    Starseed Xue: all thats left is the mind
    Pia Iger:Yes. It seems to me the cure (in form of meditation here) was from inside of you, as you said ' i knew i could change them'.
    Pia Iger:isn't it similar to the knowing Adelene said about herself?

    Nobody responded to me. More silence, even after Cal's arrival. (see the Pic at bottom.)

    Starseed Xue: hi caledonia
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hi cal
    Pia Iger:Hi, Cal.
    Caledonia Heron: hi Starseed, Fried, Pia, Adelene :)
    Caledonia Heron: hey Stevenaia, Neela :)
    Adelene Dawner: 'lo
    Neela Blaisdale: Hi Cal
    Caledonia Heron: I am seeing you as a big purple ball Adelene, is that correct?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I said the same thing
    Caledonia Heron: lol, must be something to it :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: you have to click to be sure ;-)
    Caledonia Heron: realize I am very late, will sit quietly :)
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: adelene makes us all smile
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Pia Iger:We are all musing..
    Caledonia Heron: I thought about asking :)
    Adelene Dawner is back to looking at body modification.
    Starseed Xue: why is it so quiet?
    Caledonia Heron: what have been your topics this evening?
    Pia Iger:Star shared with us his story, but I felt not comfortable to keep asking questions.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: same thing we do every night, pink.. reality and being (jk)
    Starseed Xue: Pia, you may ask me anything
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: madness, faith, seeing as being...

    Adelene could not hold her breath anymore:) and we started to get familiar with her cues.

    Adelene Dawner: I keep waiting for someone to ask me *why* I'm looking at body modification, and/or why I keep bringing it up. ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: lots to consider :)
    Caledonia Heron: I'll bite, why Adelene?
    Pia Iger:Adelene, we are not that probing sometimes.
    Starseed Xue: ok =D
    Adelene Dawner: Well, I was looking at some of the experiments that Pema was doing for Kira, before - about different ways of perceiving the world - and I was reminded of a particular body modification that I'd read about a while ago.
    Starseed Xue: is everyone doing the 9 second thing
    Caledonia Heron: which one?
    Adelene Dawner: Apparently, if you implant small magnets into your fingers, they allow you to sense magnetic fields. I'm considering getting it done, actually, but I want to wait - it's still pretty experimental now.
    Starseed Xue: i forget sometimes
    Pia Iger:(most of us do , and forget sometimes, Star)
    Caledonia Heron: hmm, very small magnets are used in traditional chinese medicine... I have not sensed any magnetic fields as yet :)
    Caledonia Heron: *magnetic
    Adelene Dawner: Yeah, but I'm sure they don't *implant* them.
    Caledonia Heron: no, not implanted, topical application
    Adelene Dawner: Yeah. relevant difference.
    Caledonia Heron: interesting
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: is that related to your present form?
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: do you need help finding the right direction to migrate?

    Good one! Fred!

    Adelene Dawner: And now I'm pondering what else could be done by way of that - it starts to border on transhumanism pretty quickly, actually.
    Adelene Dawner swats Fred ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: Cal: No, not really.
    Caledonia Heron: k
    Caledonia Heron: as Freid suggests, maybe it could help if you're sailing, or practicing feng shui :)
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i've actually got 2 titanium rods fusing 5 of my vertabrae together
    Caledonia Heron: that's kind of transhuman :) ...bionic
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i like to imagine them forming a superconducting shunt for my kundalini energy, but that's just my overactive imagination
    Caledonia Heron: superconducting supercollider :)
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: no black holes in my spine, please

    Tara came, but I had to go. Wondering how long those 6 people stayed after I left?

    Neela Blaisdale: Hi Tara
    Caledonia Heron: hey Tara :)
    Tara Farmer: hey guys
    Pia Iger:Hi, Tara.
    Pia Iger need to leave and take the log with me.
    Caledonia Heron: bye Pia :)
    Pia Iger:Bye, enjoy.
    Friedrich Ochsenhorn: g'night Pia
    Neela Blaisdale: Bye Pia have a good night

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