Fael, Gaya, Pia, Wol and I shared the guardianship. I (Adams) posted the log and am reposnsible for the comments
Fael and Gaya were there when I arrived; we exchange greetings and a landmark
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Fael :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Gaya: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... lovely dress Adams
Gaya Ethaniel: one of my fav colour combination - green & red
Adams Rubble: Thanks, it is a Ryusho original
Gaya Ethaniel: oh... must visit his shop one day
Adams Rubble: He has a Korean dress
Fael Illyar: it's around 70 meters from here :)
Gaya Ethaniel: oh... pls send me lm
Fael Illyar: 70 meters east :)
Fael Illyar: or maybe 90 ... well, somewhere between I guess
Gaya Ethaniel accepted your inventory offer.
Gaya Ethaniel: cool cheers Adams
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar doesn't have a landmark there.
Adams Rubble: It's OK Fael, she got one :)
Fael Illyar: Well, as long as you know where it is, you'll get there fast enough by teleporting here :)
Faenik: why not?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble knows Fael is much better finding her away around PaB lands
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... severe lag here
Adams Rubble: yes, lag
Gaya Ethaniel nods re: Fael popping in and out of places quick
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: Oh right, I caught up with your blog a few days ago, Adams but I'm now out of date again
Adams Rubble: Yes, it's going bananas right now
Adams Rubble: But it will soon settle down
Gaya Ethaniel: at work?
Adams Rubble: I had one of those talks among myself yesterday which led to a bit of insight
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah second discussion
Adams Rubble: Yup
Pia arrived and I launch into an issue that is much on my mind this morning. The past two days I had learned about a big personal attachment in my way, pride. I wanted to know all I could about it. Later I found a comment from Pema on my blog which answered some of the questions I was raising here. Still, pride made for an interesting discussion
Adams Rubble: Hello Pia
Adams Rubble: Actually I much interested in the issue of pride if anyone cares to discuss it
Fael Illyar: Hi Pia
Gaya Ethaniel: why not, let's
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Fael Illyar: I guess I should try to catch up on the blog first :)
Adams Rubble: Stim once gave us a tool to use against anger
Adams Rubble: no need Fael
Adams Rubble: It's kind of personal anyway
Adams Rubble: If you do not understand why someone is doing something to you
Adams Rubble: then be compassionate to their lack of understanding
Adams Rubble: that is good for anger
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: what about a tool for pride?
Adams Rubble: lag again
Gaya, Pia and Fael begin to offer their view of pride
Gaya Ethaniel: well... things make me feel humble is when i realise how much i don't know...
Gaya Ethaniel: how little i do know
Fael Illyar: I think pride is the flip side of the same coin as self hate.
Fael Illyar: the opposite in a way
Fael Illyar: both being equally illusory
Gaya Ethaniel ponders on Fael's comments...
Adams Rubble: self love
Adams Rubble: hmmm
Maxine rezzes among us momentarily and we exchange greetings
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... would be helpful if you could give me an example of being proud Adams. There can be a shade of pride...
Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine
Adams Rubble: Hello Maxine
Pia Iger: Pride is also from the lack of understanding... some kind of blindness.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: yes Pia, I can see that
Maxine Walden: hi, all, just coming in to check my download, but not staying long right now, will see you at the guardian meeting soon, sorry if I am being disruptive
Pia Iger: np, Maxine
Adams Rubble: No no, good to see you Maxine. Hope you had a nice vacation :)
We continue
Gaya Ethaniel: different shaes of pride*
Maxine Walden: see you later
Adams Rubble: Well in some cases pride can be useful
Adams Rubble: like in making people do a good job
Adams Rubble: I am thinking of disruptive pride
Adams Rubble: as in conversation
Adams Rubble: disruption
Adams Rubble: "I know this, haha"
Fael Illyar: self love/hate becomes a disruption if one values it too much.
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... would that be because of pride or willingness to share? for a stranger, i won't bother spekaing my mind so much...
Adams Rubble: I am thinking real disruption I think....inserting irrelevant comments to show one's knowledge
Faenik: ah :)
Adams Rubble: You all are helping me shape this
Gaya notes that comments arising from the pride from one person might be useful to someone else
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... maybe it could appear as irrevelent but are you sure that everyone else feels the same?
Adams Rubble: Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: yes
Adams Rubble: I don't know what you mean
Gaya Ethaniel: ok maybe i offer an example, a personal one
Gaya Ethaniel: This person has been viewed as 'disruptive' in coversation, firing 'knowledge & opinions'
Pia Iger: (I think Gaya is saying there are real disruptive pride, also just perceived pride)
Gaya Ethaniel: But one of the things this person shouted out made me have an 'eureka' moment
Gaya Ethaniel: What one sees as disruptive may not always mean the same to everyone else.... that's all I'm saying
Adams Rubble: Ah, I am thinking personally, about pride geting in the way...as an attachment
Gaya Ethaniel: unless we know fully the intention of the speaker
Gaya Ethaniel: yes... some people may feel 'impulse' to speak in that case maybe you're right about being pride... but still i cannot be entirely sure
Fael Illyar: Just because something is said to bolster one's pride doesn't mean it's useless. It's just very likely to be. Also it's rather hard to say whether it really was said because of pride.
Fael Illyar: or just pride.
Gaya Ethaniel: yes Fael that was what i meant, took so many sentences!
Adams Rubble: I understand what you both are saying and it is a good point
I turn it back to the issue of ones own pride
Adams Rubble: I was thinking more of tools to deal with ones own pride when it is recognized
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Pia. Precisely my point also (pride and perceived pride)
Fael Illyar: but I guess Adams is interested in internal pride, not pride perceived in others
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... one's own pride ok
Adams Rubble: yes Fael
Pia Iger: ok. let's deal with our own pride:)
Gaya Ethaniel: so how do you recognise when you are being proud Adams? Again speaking for the its own sake?
Adams Rubble: Well, in my case it is usually much afterwards
Adams Rubble: but I will give you an example of one I recognized right away
Gaya Ethaniel: k
I try an example but it confuses the issue some more
Adams Rubble: Last night I was admiring Storm's new pavilion
Adams Rubble: and Sorm made reference to something I said
Faenik: could be
Adams Rubble: and I said that it is something every architectural historian would know
Adams Rubble: you may or may not recognize that as pride
Adams Rubble: but I did
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... is Storm well versed in history of architecture?
Adams Rubble: and I said 'ouch' to myself
Fael Illyar: you feel pride about being an architectural historian?
Pia Iger: I don't see it being disruptive.
Adams Rubble: Gaya, I don't know but I am giving an example of a way pride made a statement
Fael Illyar: so you feel pride because that sentence puts you there as a hidden assumption?
Gaya Ethaniel: no not disruptive... guess Adams said 'ouch' because she were worried about how Storm may have felt by her comments?
Adams Rubble: Pia, it was disruptive to my own thought process
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Gaya Ethaniel: well I'm thinking here Adams 'is this really pride issue or not? Let's dig it a bit deeper' hence my clarification questions...
I try a more general example but my first example won't go away. I later realized that this was a "one way" example as far as I knew. The comment was not aimed at Storm or a reaction to anything he said. It just sounded snooty to me. And it was the last example that had to illustrate the point
Adams Rubble: I have gotten in stupid arguments in PaB sessions by making statements that are disruptive :)
Fael Illyar: for you or for others?
Adams Rubble: Probably both Fael
Adams Rubble: Let me step backwards a little
Adams Rubble: I am identifying identity/attachments
Adams Rubble: Last night my sub-conscious brought out this one
Adams Rubble: What I was identifying as "self" was actually pride
Adams Rubble: Now that I have done that
Adams Rubble: I want to able to recognize pride
Adams Rubble: and learn how to deal with it
Gaya Ethaniel is thinking what kind of comments Storm made to make Adams feel 'defensive' or 'proud' enough to say 'it is something every architectural historian would know'
Adams Rubble: hehe, Gaya. it concerned an oculus
Faenik: indeed?
Adams Rubble: faenik!!?!
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
Fael Illyar: what's with this reaction to Faenik's line?
Gaya Ethaniel: but i'm not so interested in the subject matter which brought up your comments to Storm, interested in how Storm said to you that resulted in you saying that statement...
Adams Rubble: His reation to "oculus"
Wol completed our group making it a fivesome; I answer Gya's question and then we exchange our greetings
Adams Rubble: Gaya, we were having a polite conversation when pride spoke through me
Fael Illyar: Hi Wol :)
Adams Rubble: Hi Wol
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pia Iger: Hi Wol
Wol Euler: good morning, grey friends :-)
Adams Rubble: Mybe only I knew it, but I recognized it
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry Adams, I'm going to keep quiet until I understand how pride relates to your experiences... at the moment it's very confusing
I am truly sorry that I am making this more muddled but Pia comes to my rescue but then we go back to "self"
Adams Rubble: Yes, this is new to me and I am not doing a good job of describing it
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm happy to listen while you go through the thinking process Adams
Pia Iger: I understand that Adams realized Pride as ego is in her way. and she wants to know how to deal with this proud self.
Adams Rubble: yes exactly, Pia. thanks
Gaya Ethaniel: oh... egoistic
Gaya Ethaniel: ok got it now
Gaya Ethaniel: So you want to know how to deal with your ego Adams?
Fael Illyar: don't we all?
Fael Illyar: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: mm hmm
Wol Euler: heheh
But I am seeing pride as an attachment, not ME
Adams Rubble: Last night I began to see this an attachment rather than "self"
Adams Rubble: Dealing with it as "self" seems kimpossib;e
Adams Rubble: imposible
Adams Rubble: impossible
It was impossible to type too and Gaya makes a helpful observation
Gaya Ethaniel: self is a sum of attachments in a way...
Adams Rubble: yes Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: but you're right to deal one by one
Adams Rubble: and we deal with them one by one
Adams Rubble: yes Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: typed same thing :)
Fael Illyar: It's probably too much to take on all at once :)
Pia Iger: As Fael said, either self love/hate is illusory. We are here to learn the true nature of ourselves. The knowing of our truth will disolve pride, or any other illusions.
Adams Rubble: It si not ME who is puffed up and boastful
Gaya Ethaniel recently has a few times when she and others type same thing at the same time :)
Gaya Ethaniel: yes Pia. I think so too, with awareness and understanding, attachment issues will dissolve naturally
Fael Illyar: at first, my thought was to say "great minds think alike" but it felt a bit stale so I gave up and then it dawned on me. "Being thinks alike"
Wol Euler smiles
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: again!
Wol Euler: lol
Faenik: could be
Wol Euler: Taoists would say this proves that we are together in the Moment.
Pia Iger: who said, there is only ONE mind, but we thinks there are individuls.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: it's a great to feel the connection this way
Adams Rubble: Yes
Gaya Ethaniel: 1AM session we were talking about differences now we are talking about connections at PaB
I ask again about tools
Adams Rubble: Going back a bit...
Adams Rubble: if there are tools to deal with anger
Adams Rubble: can we think of something to deal with pride?
Gaya Ethaniel: I've said my piece before 'so much to know yet i know so little' helps me in that department
Gaya Ethaniel: so much to know - diff people have something unique to offer so makes me more open-minded also
Pia Iger: yes. Adams. as Stim said, we can ask ourself , "what makes us feel pride/boastful? what did I not see as truth?" those questions.
Gaya Ethaniel: did you feel when you made that statement to Storm, you were being 'better' in some ways than him Adams?
Adams Rubble: Good questions, Pia
Fael Illyar: isn't that what pride is? Feeling better than others? At least the other side of the coin is feeling worse than others.
Gaya Ethaniel: Isen said something funny about this. one sec
Gaya Ethaniel: Tahuti Thor: and people fight over the concepts Wol Euler nods at Quilty. Isen Enzo: My concepts are better than your concepts! Isen Enzo: are too! Isen Enzo: are no! Gaya Ethaniel smiles Fael Illyar: :) Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Adams Rubble: Well, I can't honestly say I felt that, Fael and Gaya but I really do not think it is important unless it has to do with Pia's (Stim's) questions
Gaya Ethaniel: yes... at the end of day I agree with Pia that (sorry for repeating) with understanding/awareness such attachment issues will dissolve naturally
Fael Illyar: it doesn't necessarily have to be targeted at a specific person
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: yes, thank you Fael
Gaya Ethaniel: maybe we don't have a 'tool' as you're looking for here
Gaya Ethaniel: if that's not how you felt... I'm still confused here Adams. Did you feel defensive when you make that statement then?
Ah, back to the first example. I try to address Gaya's questions while we discuss a shining example
Pia Iger: as a good example, we can take Pema. He definitely is knowledgable. But he does not take his pride in that. I think part of reason is he can see the whole picture, can see who he really is.
Fael Illyar: it could be just feeling better than a vague idea of a group of "would be architectural historians".
Gaya Ethaniel: Strom must have hurt your pride to prompt such a comment imo
Adams Rubble: Pema is a wonderful example of someone who has "pride" under control :)
Adams Rubble: no no Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel takes her hands off keyboard slowly
Wol Euler is now very curious to read the transcript of what whe missed :-)
Adams Rubble: Please stop trying to analyze the situation
Pia Iger: but I don't think he is doing any 'control'.
Adams Rubble: Ok Pia :)
Adams Rubble: But a wonderful example!!!
Fael Illyar: Yes, there probably isn't anything there for Pema to "control" :)
Adams Rubble: It was a bad example which I used because I used it in my blog
Pia Iger: I meant once he can see himself in true light, there is not much of issue of pride for him to 'work on'.
Adams Rubble: I only wanted to show a moment when I recognized this attachment in an admittedly mild form
Wol Euler: / ty
Gaya Ethaniel: yw :)
Pia Iger: that is great, Adams!
Gaya Ethaniel nods
That settled, we discuss ways in which we identify these kinds of issues
Pia Iger: I see this is the benefits of 9-sec, that can shed lights on our mild, minor emotional moves.
Pia Iger: expose it, then we can learn to handle it.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: Yes, that is what I hope to do
Adams Rubble: This was a big attachment that I knew was there but didn't fully recognize until last night
Pia Iger: that is a good thing! the recognition.
Fael Illyar: big, slow and sneaky :=
Fael Illyar: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Pia Iger: I myself found some of these sneaky things in my mind during 9-sec. Feel good catching them!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'me too'
Adams Rubble: That is great you can do it in the 9 seconds
Faenik: indeed?
Adams Rubble: Mine seem to come to me through dreams
Gaya Ethaniel: oh.. that's interesting Adams
Fael Illyar: Whatever the messenger, the message comes through :)
Adams Rubble: yes Fael
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pia Iger: (9-sec is a term only. may actually takes a half hour)
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Fael Illyar: Perhaps, in your case, the path of least resistance for the messages in dreams.
Wol Euler: could be
Adams Rubble: Yes, I am learning that may be the case, Fael
And a great number of thoughts every day
Pia Iger: The best part is that you can notice it and pay attention to the message. To think, we have tons of thoughts fleet by everyday, but most time, we don't pay attention at all.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler nods
Adams Rubble: Yes Pia
Gaya Ethaniel: again! Wol you're a mind reader
Wol Euler smiles
Adams Rubble can't even blog them all
Gaya Ethaniel writes all in diary instead
Fael Illyar rarely writes anything at all.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: ok ok you've got fantastic memory Fael
Wol Euler mues while walking, and hgas forgotten by the time she gets home.s
Fael Illyar: ... umm, I wasn't trying to highlight that part.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope it was helpful Adams though I couldn't really offer much advice
Fael Illyar: but you just made me realize I'm looking at that very one sided.
Gaya Ethaniel: ?
Pia Iger wants to write diary too, but lack of continuity.
Adams Rubble: My blog has provided some discipline for me
Gaya Ethaniel: well i let that attachment go Pia - if i don't write a few days so what it's ok, i just write when i have impluse to do so
Adams Rubble: To anser Gaya's question, yes you all raised some ideas I had not considered
Adams Rubble: answer
Gaya Ethaniel: cool something to chew on :)
Then Fael surprises me with an observation about me gleaned from my blog
Fael Illyar: Adams, perhaps the exhaustion is feeling the presence but keeping yourself separate? the effort required for that
Adams Rubble has no idea what fael just said
Adams Rubble: ?
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Fael Illyar: reading your log. you've twice mentioned getting exhausted by connecting.
Fael Illyar: uh blog
Gaya offers the same advice as Pema was later to do
Gaya Ethaniel: so you mean Adams should cut some slack on herself Fael?
Gaya Ethaniel: Be kind to herself and patient to herself etc
Fael Illyar: Um, no, I mean that the exhaustion she got after the vision was the price of staying out of the 'oneness' while feeling the presence of God.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... after that experience ok i see
Wol Euler: well, that is IMHO always good advice for everyone :-)
Adams Rubble: Fael, what an interesting insight
Gaya Ethaniel always cuts a generous slack on herself
Time to go and Pia helps us to "go with smiles" (Güle güle)[Turkish farewell]
Adams Rubble: Unfortunately it appears it is time for us to move :(
Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, Guardian meeting
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for the conversation
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Fael Illyar: Yes, it was interesting :)
Adams Rubble: Thanks all
Pia Iger: feel like Charles' angels
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar: see you at HoA :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pia Iger: Action!
Wol Euler: it was interesting, thank you all. Sorry I came late.
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