2008.08.09 13:00 - Impressions, Faith, Lessons and Stories

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    The guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are Storm's.

    The old pavilion was not empty. I was picked up on radar as I approached.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Storm :)
    Storm Nordwind: Hi :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel: brb
    Fael Illyar: looks like I might be a bit idle for the start of the meeting. (RL disturbances)
    Fael Illyar just got advance warning.
    Storm Nordwind: No problem. Perhaps you want to go away and come back later, in case anyone addresses anything to you
    Fael Illyar: Hi Quilty.
    Storm Nordwind: Welcome
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi all
    Quilty Bookmite: Are you sitting in a fish tank Fael?

    This was a reasonable question. Fael's pet Faenik was gone. Instead she had a whole entourage of sea creatures circling her. Next to her, Gaya had a single fish doing a similar orbit.

    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Storm Nordwind: Fael cannot hear you as her ears are full of water
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: There are some strange looking fish.
    Storm Nordwind: As above, so below! :)
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bubbly says hello. He's my new pet :)
    Storm Nordwind throws Bubbly a morsel of food
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah how kind of you Storm. Thanks :)
    Storm Nordwind: Now if I wasn't Buddhist, you might think I was trying to fatten him up! ;-)
    Storm Nordwind hides his frying pan
    Quilty Bookmite: Sworn vegetarian. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: You won't get much sashimi out of Bubbly Storm. Tad too small for that.

    Pleasantries and general teasing over, we started discussing things. It turned out to be a long discussion on memories and impressions.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Since there doesn't seem to be any topic, can I ask Storm a question about 'memory'?
    Storm Nordwind: Of course Gaya. The topic(s) are set by any of us at any time
    Gaya Ethaniel: After what you said that it is possible for my 'vision' to be others' previous life... something strange happened to me
    Storm Nordwind: Please tell
    Gaya Ethaniel: The vision came back and this time the child I thought I was wasn't me
    Storm Nordwind: Oh!
    Gaya Ethaniel: It was someone I know
    Gaya Ethaniel: I then realised immediately I never actually believed that the child was me
    Storm Nordwind: Right!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Somehow I just categorised as one of my 'previous' lives
    Gaya Ethaniel: Because I couldn't understand it maybe
    Storm Nordwind: It is a popular model but often a cliche
    Gaya Ethaniel: I thought of myself plain silly... to have such visions and thoughts
    Storm Nordwind: Why silly?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Because it sounds like being illogical and supersticious etc
    Storm Nordwind: Not all things that make sense are logical Gaya!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe I'm projecting this person onto the vision?
    Storm Nordwind: Greetings Benedizione
    Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe I want to see this person in the vision?
    Storm Nordwind: Yes that's possible
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure anymore...
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Benedizione/
    Storm Nordwind: Many people are very sensitive to the thoughts and feelings of others
    Benedizione Vita: hello
    Benedizione Vita: where did all of the cushions go?
    Storm Nordwind: But often they just think they are their own
    Quilty Bookmite: The cushions are stil lthere.
    Benedizione Vita: my system must be having issues...
    Storm Nordwind: I suggest relogging Benedizione

    I hesitated before saying the next line because I was emphasising the separateness of people, which is something I've come to realise (through various PaB exercises) is more illusory that it may seem. However, I soldiered on...

    Storm Nordwind: It takes a lot of experience to be able to tell which thoughts and feelings originate from other people and which from yourself
    Quilty Bookmite: Gaya, who do you think the person in your vision was?
    Gaya Ethaniel: i c...
    Gaya Ethaniel: one of my friends
    Gaya Ethaniel: the child had always been blur before i recognise it for who i believe it is
    Gaya Ethaniel: i think it is*
    Gaya Ethaniel: i didn't even know if it was a boy or girl before then...
    Quilty Bookmite: Of course, it is possible that your viewpoint may have been changed by Storms suggestion. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes that's what i'd like to know
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: so it's my mind playing tricks?
    Storm Nordwind: "Playing tricks" is a loaded comment
    Quilty Bookmite: It may be. Maybe not.
    Storm Nordwind: Your mind can have terrific influence
    Storm Nordwind: and you can program it to achieve certain things
    Storm Nordwind: If you want to
    Storm Nordwind: But an unprogrammed mind (by you) can sometimes be programmed by someone else!
    Storm Nordwind: Or at least influenced

    I realised this sounded like I was talking about hypnosis but that wasn't what I had in mind.

    Gaya Ethaniel: that won't be true then if mind is under influence or some sort
    Gaya Ethaniel: so if i was under your influence Storm when i recognise the child... this is a false yes?
    Quilty Bookmite: The question is, does it matter?
    Storm Nordwind: Well, for one thing, you were not under my influence. But it could be you were doing it yourself.
    Gaya Ethaniel: because something else happened too... it matters i think
    Quilty Bookmite: Only you can get to the truth.
    Gaya Ethaniel: perhaps Storm, hard to tell really
    Gaya Ethaniel: i was going to let this go... until i had another vision, you guys call it 'deja vu' I think
    Storm Nordwind: True Quilty. But the power of the mind to influence our impressions and what we think of as reality is very high. And very easy to demonstrate
    Storm Nordwind: Please tell us Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: i had a vision of doing something which i'd never done in my life
    Gaya Ethaniel: after about 2 weeks later, i found myself doing that
    Gaya Ethaniel: i didn't expect it at all
    Storm Nordwind: Can you tell us what it was?
    Gaya Ethaniel: and my vision i was alone and when it actually happened i was with the friend
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm...
    Gaya Ethaniel: was flying in a hot air balloon
    Storm Nordwind: No problem if you don't want to say
    Storm Nordwind: Oh!
    Storm Nordwind: Well ... the reasons I asked is to find out whether it was something that could have been remembered from a long time ago
    Storm Nordwind: And that's probably no then!
    Gaya Ethaniel: no i don't think so...
    Storm Nordwind: But how did it happen? Had your friend already planned it?
    Gaya Ethaniel: no it just happened
    Gaya Ethaniel: no plans on either side
    Storm Nordwind: Do you think you would have done it if you hadn't had the vision?
    Gaya Ethaniel: i didn't have any recollection of the vision at the time
    Gaya Ethaniel: i just went like
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow cool i always wanted to go on a hot air balloon
    Gaya Ethaniel: that was my reaction...
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    Storm Nordwind: Lovely!
    Gaya Ethaniel: then
    Gaya Ethaniel: as i was looking out from the balloon
    Gaya Ethaniel: the vision started to overlap with what i was looking at
    Gaya Ethaniel: a little scary

    Quilty pronounced his confirmation of Gaya's previous suggestion, but Gaya needed clarification.

    Quilty Bookmite: As you say, deja vu. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: i didn't bring up the vision. it just came
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: what is deja vu?
    Quilty Bookmite: Is it scarey because you didn't expect to catch a glimpse of the future?
    Storm Nordwind: Literally it means "already seen"
    Quilty Bookmite: As in "oh no, it's deja vu all over again".
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Storm Nordwind: It's French in origin - the words anyway
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't think this is deja vu though. Deja vu is more like a feeling that you have done something before but can't quite remember it.
    Quilty Bookmite: This is more like a vision of the future. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: just strange feelings and sensations, not really scary but maybe creepy and spooky without being scared?

    I wanted to illustrate the power of mind, or faith, or belief, or certainty, or ... well, something here. Or perhaps it was letting go of what we'd programmed ourselves was not possible. (I have found this useful in PaB exercises: to know with confidence and certainty that I will see in a certain way.)

    Storm Nordwind: Perhaps now you have an opportunity
    Gaya Ethaniel: opportunity for what Storm?
    Storm Nordwind: Well you could give yourself permission for it to happen again - if you wished
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes the vision of the future... but
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... hm... don't quite understand you Storm. Is this something I can 'make' it happen again?
    Storm Nordwind: It is something you can *allow* to happen again
    Gaya Ethaniel: Surroundings of the vision and those of the actual event slightly differs in terms of types of trees in the forest... but they kind of emerged during the flight
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is that something I should do? Any good comes of that Storm? Anyhow how do I do it if I want to?
    Gaya Ethaniel: merged*
    Storm Nordwind: I cannot tell you "should". I don't speak in terms of "should" to anyone else!
    Storm Nordwind: However, the question remains, is it of any use.
    Gaya Ethaniel doesn't believe in 'should' either
    Storm Nordwind: The answer is "maybe"
    Storm Nordwind: It can be
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Avastu
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Storm Nordwind: Or can just be noise and irrelevance
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Storm Nordwind: Greetings!
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: Either way it is useful. :-)
    Storm Nordwind: It may be the beginnings of something useful or inspiring.
    Quilty Bookmite: If it's noise and irrelevance it can still help to show you something of the nature of reality.
    Gaya Ethaniel: What disturbs me is that in the actual event, the friend (=child in the other memory) was present while i was alone in my vision
    Storm Nordwind: Quite so, by contrast Quilty
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pls tell me more?
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, if you examine the experience you may be able to get below the surface of it. To see it for what it really is.
    Storm Nordwind: It may help you see what is really real
    Storm Nordwind: Or it may turn out to be a useful gift that can be developed

    Quilty wanted to investigate an earlier comment.

    Quilty Bookmite: Going back to the previous point, was your vision influenced by what Storm says? On the face of it than can be difficult to answer.
    Gaya Ethaniel: which vision? Hot air balloon?
    Quilty Bookmite: however, it's still a question worth asking even if you don't get an answer.
    Quilty Bookmite: No, where you saw the child as one of your friends.
    Gaya Ethaniel: My memory of the child comes from when I was very small... I can't even remember when that was maybe 5-7?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Always had this since then
    Quilty Bookmite: then maybe it is too far gone. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ?
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't know.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's always been same thou
    Gaya Ethaniel: until the PaB session
    Quilty Bookmite: So why did it change?
    Gaya Ethaniel: when Storm said that it could be others' lives I see
    Gaya Ethaniel: That somehow triggered me to see the vision again
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe. :-)
    Storm Nordwind: I was just opening a door of possibility
    Storm Nordwind: It surprising we can be in the room of our own lives and not see all the doors that are there!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes it made me think and brought my vision back to be seen again
    Gaya Ethaniel: Storm... you are way too advanced for me!

    Hmm... I couldn't see how. And all I wanted to do was suggest ways of looking at the same information that hadn't yet been considered. Again, a letting go.

    Storm Nordwind shakes his head
    Storm Nordwind: If I am *too* advanced, I need to keep my mouth shut! :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah oh wait
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry I recognised the child as the friend once before or after. Not sure whether it was before or after...
    Gaya Ethaniel: the PaB session
    Gaya Ethaniel: I just wonder what this friend is doing in my memory and vision
    Gaya Ethaniel: Am I conjuring up stuff here?
    Quilty Bookmite: Only you can know.
    Storm Nordwind: Well I know that telepathy can work. And I know that emotional resonance can work. So I see no reason not to extend that to memories too.

    It is strange to find myself using old models of reality to explain things to people. I'm not entirely comfortable doing so. It stems from having used those models for decades (while paying lip service to the real models). Perhaps it was just as well we didn't dig into this further.

    Gaya Ethaniel: My heart tells me neither 'true' nor 'false' when asked about this
    Gaya Ethaniel: there is no answer coming to me on this one
    Storm Nordwind: Then perhaps you do not need such an answer
    Storm Nordwind: Or at least not yet
    Quilty Bookmite: So which of us can provide an answer that you can't?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps I should just let go for now
    Quilty Bookmite: Sounds good. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can provide answer yes Quilty or we all can
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe the answer will come to you or maybe you have already had it.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Think I should let go for now until I have more experiences

    It is tempting to look for answers from others. On occasion that can be good. But it depends on whether we need to learn for the future or get a one-off job done. It's difficult to generalise. As someone who teaches in RL, I shared an opinion on that.

    Storm Nordwind: Education is not teaching. It is allowing others to learn. Leading them to that point. Not stuffing their heads with things that will fall out! :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Possibly Quilty. I will look deeper into it in case I'm rejecting the answer.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods at Storm
    Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)
    Storm Nordwind: Greeetings Adams!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks both for allowing me to discuss it

    Quilty voiced a feeling that many people have, and it's interesting the different trajectories that lead to this same impact point.

    Quilty Bookmite: Even if you reject the answer it will no doubt come back if it needs to. :-)
    Storm Nordwind: You are most welcome Gaya
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Adams.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Rather a scary thought Quilty :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Is it?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Could be :P
    Quilty Bookmite: It wasn't meant to be. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    I touched lightly on those trajectories.

    Storm Nordwind: People who have faith in ... something ... even Being, can believe that it will reappear when it is 'right' for it to do so
    Gaya Ethaniel: I vaguely believe it Storm... only vaguely for now
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe my faith is showing too much. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: The 'surrender' part won't come just yet :)
    Storm Nordwind: The faith helps you. Not 'it'. If it is true in any way at all, it will happen anyway. I believe! :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: No Quilty it's a good thing
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Will keep you posted
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Adams Rubble doesn't want to disturb but there is something fishy about Fael
    Storm Nordwind has a clothes peg on his nose
    Quilty Bookmite: I noticed that too Adams.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I've been brought up with my parents telling me that having a faith, belief or a religion is a positive thing for people
    Quilty Bookmite: She seems happy though. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So sometimes I find it strange to see so much scepticism and negativity people attach to 'religion'
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Genesis
    Adams Rubble: Hi Gen
    Storm Nordwind: Faith is a powerful force, and is independent of religion as such. Religion makes a useful target for it though
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Gaya Ethaniel 's mother is a buddhist and her father is a christian!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Storm Nordwind: Greetings Gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi All!
    Quilty Bookmite: Interesting mix!
    Gaya Ethaniel: indeed
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes Storm

    Quilty wanted to make a distinction between faith and belief. We found we needed some definitions, or attempts at them.

    Quilty Bookmite: As I think I have said here before, faith and belief are not the same thing.
    Storm Nordwind: It could be a semantic identity for many people Quilty. Would you like to remind us of the difference by your definition?
    Quilty Bookmite: OK. As you say, it's semantics...
    Quilty Bookmite: belief is where you know something to be true even without what a scientist might call solid evidence.
    Storm Nordwind: ok
    Quilty Bookmite: Faith is where you trust that something is true and act accordingly but you don;t have to believe it.
    Quilty Bookmite: Does that make sense?
    Storm Nordwind: So the difference is between 'trust' and 'know'?
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Do I then have to define those terms? :-)
    Storm Nordwind: Of course not!
    Storm Nordwind: But I know people who would have reversed your definitions
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. OK.
    Quilty Bookmite: Would you?
    Storm Nordwind: probably
    Storm Nordwind: But then I know the power of faith, self-generated faith, to make something actually real, actually happen
    Storm Nordwind: I don't really call what I trust others have said as either faith or belief
    Quilty Bookmite: Is that real or is that just our perception of what is real?
    Storm Nordwind: And the difference is? :)
    Quilty Bookmite: the difference is only there if you think that what we perceive is not what is real.
    Storm Nordwind: What I perceive is real for me
    Storm Nordwind: Or unreal
    Quilty Bookmite: Is what you perceive real for me?
    Storm Nordwind: I just don't know what 'we' perceive
    Storm Nordwind: How can i tell?
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: You can't and neither can I.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    Rather than use the example of PaB, or YSBS, or ESBS, which perhaps might have seemed too big a step, I tried to illustrate, in a different way, the power to make something 'Be'.

    Storm Nordwind: What I do know is, for practical purposes, my self-generated faith can concretely change how my world works
    Storm Nordwind: Or is that belief? :)
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't really know any more. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Storm Nordwind: I learned about this 30 years ago when I first took up water divining (or dowsing)
    Storm Nordwind: I found that if I had faith I was looking for water, my divining rods would find me water.
    Storm Nordwind: If I had faith my rods were going to show me direction of flow of water instead, or the depth of the water instead, they would do.
    Quilty Bookmite: If your faith changed your reality then it could be argued that you made the water be there.
    Storm Nordwind: Possibly. Except when I'd turned on the tap, it was previously there!
    genesis Zhangsun: brb
    Storm Nordwind: I was looking for the pipe flow
    Storm Nordwind: because I was living in a country cottage
    Storm Nordwind: and I needed to find the stopcock

    Quilty interjected a fascinating question that I'd not considered before.

    Quilty Bookmite: So your ability to change reality is restricted to the present moment?
    Storm Nordwind: Hmmm...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ?
    Storm Nordwind: I can convince myself that events did or didn't happen in the past, but most people I guess do that! :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... never tried that Storm
    Quilty Bookmite: The past is a bit of a blur to most of us anyway. :-)

    I'd evaded the question with humour. But genesis caught a related point about time and expanded on it.

    genesis Zhangsun: Does the "past" really exist?
    Gaya Ethaniel: A good question gen
    Quilty Bookmite: The buddhist viewpoint is that it doesn't,any more than the future does.
    Storm Nordwind: perhaps in no more way than the future
    Adams Rubble: Past did exist
    Quilty Bookmite: Only the present moment exists.
    Quilty Bookmite: But then I don;t know if I believe that or not. :-)
    genesis Zhangsun: does time exist?
    Storm Nordwind: Once upon a time I used to be a Heathen - religion-wise
    Storm Nordwind: And we believed in past and non-past
    Quilty Bookmite: If only the present moment exists then there is no time.

    Adams looked at the past and saw possible lessons for the present - learning from our experiences. genesis picked up on that and our discussion surfed on to the next wave.

    Adams Rubble: There are valuable lessons in the past
    genesis Zhangsun: but don't sometimes these lessons provide more traps for us in the future
    Quilty Bookmite: What we perceive as the past is just memory.
    genesis Zhangsun: sometimes lessons are very binding
    Adams Rubble: They don;t have to be
    Storm Nordwind: sometimes, but other times they can be freeing
    Storm Nordwind: It depends if the lesson says, "Do this" or whether it says "Let go of that"
    Adams Rubble: There is personal past and shared past
    Adams Rubble: We can see mistakes people made and avoid them. The lessons are in the results
    genesis Zhangsun: where do these lessons come from?
    Quilty Bookmite: Just as it gets really interesting, I must go. :-(
    Gaya Ethaniel: Gaining an insight from the past is useful as long as we don't invest emotions and thoughts into the past (attachments) I heard
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you for your contribution Quilty
    Adams Rubble: bye Quilty
    genesis Zhangsun: bye quiltym :)
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: Thank you for an interesting discussion.
    Storm Nordwind waves goodbye to Quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye all.

    genesis wanted to know what the point of these 'lessons' was. I wanted to point out the trap of using the word 'lesson'.

    genesis Zhangsun: what is their "use"? Is it to make us better people?
    genesis Zhangsun: and what is better?
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Adams Rubble: Well there is shared past and personal past
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's kind of a guide gen in how we live now
    Storm Nordwind: The use of lessons?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes
    Storm Nordwind: The term lesson is subjective Gen
    Fael Illyar finds it weird that the conversation is very interesting but that she has nothing to say.
    Storm Nordwind: If you believe it's a lesson, someone else may not see that
    Gaya Ethaniel: if it is us who is gaining the insight then we are guiding ourselves, which I believe is a good way
    Storm Nordwind: If you see it is as a lesson, then it will be you that sees what it is trying to achieve or tell you
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Fael
    genesis Zhangsun: yes ok are lessons insights>
    genesis Zhangsun: ?
    Fael Illyar had to entertain her guest.
    Adams Rubble: There is a difference in we as persons and in our relationship with others
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... I just used 'insight'... didn't see lessons typed out
    Storm Nordwind: They can be insights Gen if you choose them to be
    Adams Rubble: History offers lessons mostly for the latter
    Storm Nordwind: "History repeats itself because most people don't listen first time!"
    Adams Rubble: But I may learn from things my mother or father did, or an older sibling did (or not do) too
    genesis Zhangsun: and were these insights always present or were they discovered at certain moments providing a "lesson"?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed
    Storm Nordwind: Who can say for anyone else?
    Adams Rubble: The lessons are not just there, we need to look at history and see what happened
    Storm Nordwind: Every experience of every moment can be full of insight
    Storm Nordwind: It is the personal attitude that transforms them from 'neutral' to 'important for us'
    Adams Rubble: The past is interpreted by results

    Gaya gave us a nice image for the way she learned from her own experiences and those of others.

    Gaya Ethaniel: learning from others' mistake for me is more like storing info... notes to be compared later for my own experience. Insights is something I gain as I go along
    genesis Zhangsun: Yes I like that Gaya :0
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: not sure how 'lessons' fit into this
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    genesis now revealed why she had steered the discussion into this area. What are lessons of experience? Are they real? Are they complete? What are they?

    genesis Zhangsun: I just ask because sometimes I find some danger in interpreting events as a lesson
    Storm Nordwind: What sort of danger?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Insights stays with me naturally and affect how I live without 'forcing' myself to be a certain way. Lessons I guess are stories that I remember and some stick out more and some doesn't...
    genesis Zhangsun: sometimes one tells a story that is convenient, easily understood and overly simplistic
    Adams Rubble: I agree Gen
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    genesis Zhangsun: and the past is them in the future interpreted by the conclusion one has made
    genesis Zhangsun: leaving out a lot of other things
    genesis Zhangsun: which may have been "important" as well
    Storm Nordwind: Even the best storytellers miss things out when they tell stories
    Adams Rubble: yes
    genesis Zhangsun: sure Storm
    genesis Zhangsun: that is the key
    genesis Zhangsun: that they are stories
    Storm Nordwind: EVen the best listeners miss things out too
    Adams Rubble: A good historian looks at everything very carefully
    Storm Nordwind used to be a professional storyteller
    genesis Zhangsun: which is more playful, more lightly worn then lessons
    Adams Rubble: But that is literature...a different animal
    Storm Nordwind: Storytelling, as far as I'm concerned, is an oral tradition, far more than a written one
    Adams Rubble: yes, of course Storm
    Adams Rubble: When the oral tradition is written then it is literature :)
    Storm Nordwind: Yes. I doubt people have recorded many of my stories!
    genesis Zhangsun: interesting to think of the stories we tell about our ourselves
    genesis Zhangsun: the ones we pick and choose to repeat over and over
    Storm Nordwind: And who is the audience?
    genesis Zhangsun: anyone who is willing to listen ;)
    Storm Nordwind chuckles

    So we were telling stories about ourselves, to ourselves and others. But what happens when we tell stories about other people to those same people?

    Adams Rubble: I was reading how parent can shape a child's sense of self by what stories they chose to tell about childhood
    Adams Rubble: parents
    Gaya Ethaniel: pls go on
    Adams Rubble: Parents pick and choose from the events that happen to a child
    Adams Rubble: They may be positive ones or negatives ones
    Adams Rubble: They remember how a child spilled something on the rug and tell it again and again giving a child a sense that he/she is clumsy
    Adams Rubble: Or there may be a story about something heroic the child did
    Fael Illyar: Interesting that I've never had stories I've kept telling to everyone I meet.
    Adams Rubble: and give a child a sense that he/she is a hero/heroine
    Adams Rubble: We all have a mix
    Adams Rubble: I am noticing it with photographs too
    genesis Zhangsun: that is very interesting Adams
    Fael Illyar: Well, it's more like I've been avoiding telling things about myself.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I used to Fael but I have lost those stories somewhat over last few years
    Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must run now :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: See you all. Nice chatting :0
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Adams!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Storm Nordwind waves to Adams

    Fael brought up an interesting point about relating her experience in a story.

    genesis Zhangsun: so we have been talking about stories as ways in which the past and ourselves are represented are insights then just stories or representations of the "truth"
    Fael Illyar: When I try to think of stories to tell people about myself, nothing comes to mind
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm... that's interesting Fael
    Fael Illyar: Stories do come to mind when I hear/read something that relates to the particular story and that's when I might tell a story but ...
    Fael Illyar: I can't recall them without the topic of the conversation being related in some way
    Gaya Ethaniel: what do you mean by stories of yourself here?
    Fael Illyar: well, stories about things I've done or I've seen others do.
    Fael Illyar: If someone just asks me to tell one, I come up with nothing :)
    Gaya Ethaniel recalls something about 'bees'
    Storm Nordwind: That's perhaps because you have no original personal purpose for a story
    Fael Illyar: if you give me a context, story will come up :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: i c what you mean now Fael
    Gaya Ethaniel: you told me the bee story because we were talking about phobia was that right?
    Fael Illyar: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok got it
    Gaya Ethaniel: so you don't recall the past at leisure sometimes?
    Fael Illyar: no, I can't recall doing that

    gen and I both looked at what Fael had said and came to the same conclusion at the same time. (This is what happens when you type long sentences!)

    genesis Zhangsun: That is an interesting thing about personal stories it speaks so much more to the purpose for telling the story then the story itself
    Storm Nordwind: That's a very pragmatic approach to stories - linked in with a need, even if that need is just someone else's question
    Gaya Ethaniel: For me I recall the past if something triggers me to do so... i.e. photos or people etc
    genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed perhaps you just have no agenda Fael
    genesis Zhangsun: which would be so refreshing :)
    Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
    genesis Zhangsun: in general everyone has an agenda ;)
    Fael Illyar: when I'm analysing myself, I sometimes remember the past but ... I don't remember those at leisure.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel frowns at the word 'agenda'
    Fael Illyar: come to think of it, my leisure has tended to be either lost in thought about an interesting problem or, more recently, not thinking at all.
    Storm Nordwind: I used to tell stories for money. People paid to see and listen. I have to remind myself that most people have not paid and therefore are probably not interested!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel 's leisure often exclude pondering too much!

    It had been a long session. Real Life was calling. It was time for me to go.

    Storm Nordwind: Well it's soon time for me to tell the story of this meeting on the Wiki!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Storm Nordwind: Well if anything else of interest comes up, please add it on after my entry. :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure Storm
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Storm :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Storm :)
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Gaya Ethaniel: Must get going here too. I'm PaBed out.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Fael Illyar: See you later Gaya :)
    Storm Nordwind: Good to see you all. Quite fascinating discussion
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste
    genesis Zhangsun: Bye Gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day everyone. Thank you again.
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