2008.08.09 13:00 - Impressions, Faith, Lessons and Stories

The guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are Storm's.

The old pavilion was not empty. I was picked up on radar as I approached.

Fael Illyar: Hi Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Gaya Ethaniel: brb
Fael Illyar: looks like I might be a bit idle for the start of the meeting. (RL disturbances)
Fael Illyar just got advance warning.
Storm Nordwind: No problem. Perhaps you want to go away and come back later, in case anyone addresses anything to you
Fael Illyar: Hi Quilty.
Storm Nordwind: Welcome
Quilty Bookmite: Hi all
Quilty Bookmite: Are you sitting in a fish tank Fael?

This was a reasonable question. Fael's pet Faenik was gone. Instead she had a whole entourage of sea creatures circling her. Next to her, Gaya had a single fish doing a similar orbit.

Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Storm Nordwind: Fael cannot hear you as her ears are full of water
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Quilty Bookmite: There are some strange looking fish.
Storm Nordwind: As above, so below! :)
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Bubbly says hello. He's my new pet :)
Storm Nordwind throws Bubbly a morsel of food
Gaya Ethaniel: ah how kind of you Storm. Thanks :)
Storm Nordwind: Now if I wasn't Buddhist, you might think I was trying to fatten him up! ;-)
Storm Nordwind hides his frying pan
Quilty Bookmite: Sworn vegetarian. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: You won't get much sashimi out of Bubbly Storm. Tad too small for that.

Pleasantries and general teasing over, we started discussing things. It turned out to be a long discussion on memories and impressions.

Gaya Ethaniel: Since there doesn't seem to be any topic, can I ask Storm a question about 'memory'?
Storm Nordwind: Of course Gaya. The topic(s) are set by any of us at any time
Gaya Ethaniel: After what you said that it is possible for my 'vision' to be others' previous life... something strange happened to me
Storm Nordwind: Please tell
Gaya Ethaniel: The vision came back and this time the child I thought I was wasn't me
Storm Nordwind: Oh!
Gaya Ethaniel: It was someone I know
Gaya Ethaniel: I then realised immediately I never actually believed that the child was me
Storm Nordwind: Right!
Gaya Ethaniel: Somehow I just categorised as one of my 'previous' lives
Gaya Ethaniel: Because I couldn't understand it maybe
Storm Nordwind: It is a popular model but often a cliche
Gaya Ethaniel: I thought of myself plain silly... to have such visions and thoughts
Storm Nordwind: Why silly?
Gaya Ethaniel: Because it sounds like being illogical and supersticious etc
Storm Nordwind: Not all things that make sense are logical Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe I'm projecting this person onto the vision?
Storm Nordwind: Greetings Benedizione
Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe I want to see this person in the vision?
Storm Nordwind: Yes that's possible
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure anymore...
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Benedizione/
Storm Nordwind: Many people are very sensitive to the thoughts and feelings of others
Benedizione Vita: hello
Benedizione Vita: where did all of the cushions go?
Storm Nordwind: But often they just think they are their own
Quilty Bookmite: The cushions are stil lthere.
Benedizione Vita: my system must be having issues...
Storm Nordwind: I suggest relogging Benedizione

I hesitated before saying the next line because I was emphasising the separateness of people, which is something I've come to realise (through various PaB exercises) is more illusory that it may seem. However, I soldiered on...

Storm Nordwind: It takes a lot of experience to be able to tell which thoughts and feelings originate from other people and which from yourself
Quilty Bookmite: Gaya, who do you think the person in your vision was?
Gaya Ethaniel: i c...
Gaya Ethaniel: one of my friends
Gaya Ethaniel: the child had always been blur before i recognise it for who i believe it is
Gaya Ethaniel: i think it is*
Gaya Ethaniel: i didn't even know if it was a boy or girl before then...
Quilty Bookmite: Of course, it is possible that your viewpoint may have been changed by Storms suggestion. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: yes that's what i'd like to know
Storm Nordwind smiles
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: so it's my mind playing tricks?
Storm Nordwind: "Playing tricks" is a loaded comment
Quilty Bookmite: It may be. Maybe not.
Storm Nordwind: Your mind can have terrific influence
Storm Nordwind: and you can program it to achieve certain things
Storm Nordwind: If you want to
Storm Nordwind: But an unprogrammed mind (by you) can sometimes be programmed by someone else!
Storm Nordwind: Or at least influenced

I realised this sounded like I was talking about hypnosis but that wasn't what I had in mind.

Gaya Ethaniel: that won't be true then if mind is under influence or some sort
Gaya Ethaniel: so if i was under your influence Storm when i recognise the child... this is a false yes?
Quilty Bookmite: The question is, does it matter?
Storm Nordwind: Well, for one thing, you were not under my influence. But it could be you were doing it yourself.
Gaya Ethaniel: because something else happened too... it matters i think
Quilty Bookmite: Only you can get to the truth.
Gaya Ethaniel: perhaps Storm, hard to tell really
Gaya Ethaniel: i was going to let this go... until i had another vision, you guys call it 'deja vu' I think
Storm Nordwind: True Quilty. But the power of the mind to influence our impressions and what we think of as reality is very high. And very easy to demonstrate
Storm Nordwind: Please tell us Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: i had a vision of doing something which i'd never done in my life
Gaya Ethaniel: after about 2 weeks later, i found myself doing that
Gaya Ethaniel: i didn't expect it at all
Storm Nordwind: Can you tell us what it was?
Gaya Ethaniel: and my vision i was alone and when it actually happened i was with the friend
Gaya Ethaniel: hm...
Gaya Ethaniel: was flying in a hot air balloon
Storm Nordwind: No problem if you don't want to say
Storm Nordwind: Oh!
Storm Nordwind: Well ... the reasons I asked is to find out whether it was something that could have been remembered from a long time ago
Storm Nordwind: And that's probably no then!
Gaya Ethaniel: no i don't think so...
Storm Nordwind: But how did it happen? Had your friend already planned it?
Gaya Ethaniel: no it just happened
Gaya Ethaniel: no plans on either side
Storm Nordwind: Do you think you would have done it if you hadn't had the vision?
Gaya Ethaniel: i didn't have any recollection of the vision at the time
Gaya Ethaniel: i just went like
Gaya Ethaniel: wow cool i always wanted to go on a hot air balloon
Gaya Ethaniel: that was my reaction...
Storm Nordwind smiles
Storm Nordwind: Lovely!
Gaya Ethaniel: then
Gaya Ethaniel: as i was looking out from the balloon
Gaya Ethaniel: the vision started to overlap with what i was looking at
Gaya Ethaniel: a little scary

Quilty pronounced his confirmation of Gaya's previous suggestion, but Gaya needed clarification.

Quilty Bookmite: As you say, deja vu. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: i didn't bring up the vision. it just came
Storm Nordwind nods
Gaya Ethaniel: what is deja vu?
Quilty Bookmite: Is it scarey because you didn't expect to catch a glimpse of the future?
Storm Nordwind: Literally it means "already seen"
Quilty Bookmite: As in "oh no, it's deja vu all over again".
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Storm Nordwind: It's French in origin - the words anyway
Quilty Bookmite: I don't think this is deja vu though. Deja vu is more like a feeling that you have done something before but can't quite remember it.
Quilty Bookmite: This is more like a vision of the future. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: just strange feelings and sensations, not really scary but maybe creepy and spooky without being scared?

I wanted to illustrate the power of mind, or faith, or belief, or certainty, or ... well, something here. Or perhaps it was letting go of what we'd programmed ourselves was not possible. (I have found this useful in PaB exercises: to know with confidence and certainty that I will see in a certain way.)

Storm Nordwind: Perhaps now you have an opportunity
Gaya Ethaniel: opportunity for what Storm?
Storm Nordwind: Well you could give yourself permission for it to happen again - if you wished
Gaya Ethaniel: yes the vision of the future... but
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... hm... don't quite understand you Storm. Is this something I can 'make' it happen again?
Storm Nordwind: It is something you can *allow* to happen again
Gaya Ethaniel: Surroundings of the vision and those of the actual event slightly differs in terms of types of trees in the forest... but they kind of emerged during the flight
Gaya Ethaniel: Is that something I should do? Any good comes of that Storm? Anyhow how do I do it if I want to?
Gaya Ethaniel: merged*
Storm Nordwind: I cannot tell you "should". I don't speak in terms of "should" to anyone else!
Storm Nordwind: However, the question remains, is it of any use.
Gaya Ethaniel doesn't believe in 'should' either
Storm Nordwind: The answer is "maybe"
Storm Nordwind: It can be
Quilty Bookmite: hi Avastu
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Storm Nordwind: Or can just be noise and irrelevance
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Storm Nordwind: Greetings!
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Quilty Bookmite: Either way it is useful. :-)
Storm Nordwind: It may be the beginnings of something useful or inspiring.
Quilty Bookmite: If it's noise and irrelevance it can still help to show you something of the nature of reality.
Gaya Ethaniel: What disturbs me is that in the actual event, the friend (=child in the other memory) was present while i was alone in my vision
Storm Nordwind: Quite so, by contrast Quilty
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls tell me more?
Quilty Bookmite: Well, if you examine the experience you may be able to get below the surface of it. To see it for what it really is.
Storm Nordwind: It may help you see what is really real
Storm Nordwind: Or it may turn out to be a useful gift that can be developed

Quilty wanted to investigate an earlier comment.

Quilty Bookmite: Going back to the previous point, was your vision influenced by what Storm says? On the face of it than can be difficult to answer.
Gaya Ethaniel: which vision? Hot air balloon?
Quilty Bookmite: however, it's still a question worth asking even if you don't get an answer.
Quilty Bookmite: No, where you saw the child as one of your friends.
Gaya Ethaniel: My memory of the child comes from when I was very small... I can't even remember when that was maybe 5-7?
Gaya Ethaniel: Always had this since then
Quilty Bookmite: then maybe it is too far gone. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: ?
Quilty Bookmite: I don't know.
Gaya Ethaniel: It's always been same thou
Gaya Ethaniel: until the PaB session
Quilty Bookmite: So why did it change?
Gaya Ethaniel: when Storm said that it could be others' lives I see
Gaya Ethaniel: That somehow triggered me to see the vision again
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe. :-)
Storm Nordwind: I was just opening a door of possibility
Storm Nordwind: It surprising we can be in the room of our own lives and not see all the doors that are there!
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes it made me think and brought my vision back to be seen again
Gaya Ethaniel: Storm... you are way too advanced for me!

Hmm... I couldn't see how. And all I wanted to do was suggest ways of looking at the same information that hadn't yet been considered. Again, a letting go.

Storm Nordwind shakes his head
Storm Nordwind: If I am *too* advanced, I need to keep my mouth shut! :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah oh wait
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry I recognised the child as the friend once before or after. Not sure whether it was before or after...
Gaya Ethaniel: the PaB session
Gaya Ethaniel: I just wonder what this friend is doing in my memory and vision
Gaya Ethaniel: Am I conjuring up stuff here?
Quilty Bookmite: Only you can know.
Storm Nordwind: Well I know that telepathy can work. And I know that emotional resonance can work. So I see no reason not to extend that to memories too.

It is strange to find myself using old models of reality to explain things to people. I'm not entirely comfortable doing so. It stems from having used those models for decades (while paying lip service to the real models). Perhaps it was just as well we didn't dig into this further.

Gaya Ethaniel: My heart tells me neither 'true' nor 'false' when asked about this
Gaya Ethaniel: there is no answer coming to me on this one
Storm Nordwind: Then perhaps you do not need such an answer
Storm Nordwind: Or at least not yet
Quilty Bookmite: So which of us can provide an answer that you can't?
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps I should just let go for now
Quilty Bookmite: Sounds good. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: I can provide answer yes Quilty or we all can
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe the answer will come to you or maybe you have already had it.
Gaya Ethaniel: Think I should let go for now until I have more experiences

It is tempting to look for answers from others. On occasion that can be good. But it depends on whether we need to learn for the future or get a one-off job done. It's difficult to generalise. As someone who teaches in RL, I shared an opinion on that.

Storm Nordwind: Education is not teaching. It is allowing others to learn. Leading them to that point. Not stuffing their heads with things that will fall out! :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Possibly Quilty. I will look deeper into it in case I'm rejecting the answer.
Gaya Ethaniel nods at Storm
Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)
Storm Nordwind: Greeetings Adams!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks both for allowing me to discuss it

Quilty voiced a feeling that many people have, and it's interesting the different trajectories that lead to this same impact point.

Quilty Bookmite: Even if you reject the answer it will no doubt come back if it needs to. :-)
Storm Nordwind: You are most welcome Gaya
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Adams.
Gaya Ethaniel: Rather a scary thought Quilty :)
Quilty Bookmite: Is it?
Gaya Ethaniel: Could be :P
Quilty Bookmite: It wasn't meant to be. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

I touched lightly on those trajectories.

Storm Nordwind: People who have faith in ... something ... even Being, can believe that it will reappear when it is 'right' for it to do so
Gaya Ethaniel: I vaguely believe it Storm... only vaguely for now
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe my faith is showing too much. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: The 'surrender' part won't come just yet :)
Storm Nordwind: The faith helps you. Not 'it'. If it is true in any way at all, it will happen anyway. I believe! :)
Gaya Ethaniel: No Quilty it's a good thing
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Will keep you posted
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Adams Rubble doesn't want to disturb but there is something fishy about Fael
Storm Nordwind has a clothes peg on his nose
Quilty Bookmite: I noticed that too Adams.
Gaya Ethaniel: I've been brought up with my parents telling me that having a faith, belief or a religion is a positive thing for people
Quilty Bookmite: She seems happy though. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: So sometimes I find it strange to see so much scepticism and negativity people attach to 'religion'
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Genesis
Adams Rubble: Hi Gen
Storm Nordwind: Faith is a powerful force, and is independent of religion as such. Religion makes a useful target for it though
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Gaya Ethaniel 's mother is a buddhist and her father is a christian!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Storm Nordwind: Greetings Gen
genesis Zhangsun: Hi All!
Quilty Bookmite: Interesting mix!
Gaya Ethaniel: indeed
Gaya Ethaniel: yes Storm

Quilty wanted to make a distinction between faith and belief. We found we needed some definitions, or attempts at them.

Quilty Bookmite: As I think I have said here before, faith and belief are not the same thing.
Storm Nordwind: It could be a semantic identity for many people Quilty. Would you like to remind us of the difference by your definition?
Quilty Bookmite: OK. As you say, it's semantics...
Quilty Bookmite: belief is where you know something to be true even without what a scientist might call solid evidence.
Storm Nordwind: ok
Quilty Bookmite: Faith is where you trust that something is true and act accordingly but you don;t have to believe it.
Quilty Bookmite: Does that make sense?
Storm Nordwind: So the difference is between 'trust' and 'know'?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Do I then have to define those terms? :-)
Storm Nordwind: Of course not!
Storm Nordwind: But I know people who would have reversed your definitions
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. OK.
Quilty Bookmite: Would you?
Storm Nordwind: probably
Storm Nordwind: But then I know the power of faith, self-generated faith, to make something actually real, actually happen
Storm Nordwind: I don't really call what I trust others have said as either faith or belief
Quilty Bookmite: Is that real or is that just our perception of what is real?
Storm Nordwind: And the difference is? :)
Quilty Bookmite: the difference is only there if you think that what we perceive is not what is real.
Storm Nordwind: What I perceive is real for me
Storm Nordwind: Or unreal
Quilty Bookmite: Is what you perceive real for me?
Storm Nordwind: I just don't know what 'we' perceive
Storm Nordwind: How can i tell?
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: You can't and neither can I.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

Rather than use the example of PaB, or YSBS, or ESBS, which perhaps might have seemed too big a step, I tried to illustrate, in a different way, the power to make something 'Be'.

Storm Nordwind: What I do know is, for practical purposes, my self-generated faith can concretely change how my world works
Storm Nordwind: Or is that belief? :)
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I don't really know any more. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Storm Nordwind: I learned about this 30 years ago when I first took up water divining (or dowsing)
Storm Nordwind: I found that if I had faith I was looking for water, my divining rods would find me water.
Storm Nordwind: If I had faith my rods were going to show me direction of flow of water instead, or the depth of the water instead, they would do.
Quilty Bookmite: If your faith changed your reality then it could be argued that you made the water be there.
Storm Nordwind: Possibly. Except when I'd turned on the tap, it was previously there!
genesis Zhangsun: brb
Storm Nordwind: I was looking for the pipe flow
Storm Nordwind: because I was living in a country cottage
Storm Nordwind: and I needed to find the stopcock

Quilty interjected a fascinating question that I'd not considered before.

Quilty Bookmite: So your ability to change reality is restricted to the present moment?
Storm Nordwind: Hmmm...
Gaya Ethaniel: ?
Storm Nordwind: I can convince myself that events did or didn't happen in the past, but most people I guess do that! :)
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... never tried that Storm
Quilty Bookmite: The past is a bit of a blur to most of us anyway. :-)

I'd evaded the question with humour. But genesis caught a related point about time and expanded on it.

genesis Zhangsun: Does the "past" really exist?
Gaya Ethaniel: A good question gen
Quilty Bookmite: The buddhist viewpoint is that it doesn't,any more than the future does.
Storm Nordwind: perhaps in no more way than the future
Adams Rubble: Past did exist
Quilty Bookmite: Only the present moment exists.
Quilty Bookmite: But then I don;t know if I believe that or not. :-)
genesis Zhangsun: does time exist?
Storm Nordwind: Once upon a time I used to be a Heathen - religion-wise
Storm Nordwind: And we believed in past and non-past
Quilty Bookmite: If only the present moment exists then there is no time.

Adams looked at the past and saw possible lessons for the present - learning from our experiences. genesis picked up on that and our discussion surfed on to the next wave.

Adams Rubble: There are valuable lessons in the past
genesis Zhangsun: but don't sometimes these lessons provide more traps for us in the future
Quilty Bookmite: What we perceive as the past is just memory.
genesis Zhangsun: sometimes lessons are very binding
Adams Rubble: They don;t have to be
Storm Nordwind: sometimes, but other times they can be freeing
Storm Nordwind: It depends if the lesson says, "Do this" or whether it says "Let go of that"
Adams Rubble: There is personal past and shared past
Adams Rubble: We can see mistakes people made and avoid them. The lessons are in the results
genesis Zhangsun: where do these lessons come from?
Quilty Bookmite: Just as it gets really interesting, I must go. :-(
Gaya Ethaniel: Gaining an insight from the past is useful as long as we don't invest emotions and thoughts into the past (attachments) I heard
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Storm Nordwind: Thank you for your contribution Quilty
Adams Rubble: bye Quilty
genesis Zhangsun: bye quiltym :)
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Quilty Bookmite: Thank you for an interesting discussion.
Storm Nordwind waves goodbye to Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: Bye all.

genesis wanted to know what the point of these 'lessons' was. I wanted to point out the trap of using the word 'lesson'.

genesis Zhangsun: what is their "use"? Is it to make us better people?
genesis Zhangsun: and what is better?
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Adams Rubble: Well there is shared past and personal past
Gaya Ethaniel: It's kind of a guide gen in how we live now
Storm Nordwind: The use of lessons?
genesis Zhangsun: yes
Storm Nordwind: The term lesson is subjective Gen
Fael Illyar finds it weird that the conversation is very interesting but that she has nothing to say.
Storm Nordwind: If you believe it's a lesson, someone else may not see that
Gaya Ethaniel: if it is us who is gaining the insight then we are guiding ourselves, which I believe is a good way
Storm Nordwind: If you see it is as a lesson, then it will be you that sees what it is trying to achieve or tell you
Gaya Ethaniel: wb Fael
genesis Zhangsun: yes ok are lessons insights>
genesis Zhangsun: ?
Fael Illyar had to entertain her guest.
Adams Rubble: There is a difference in we as persons and in our relationship with others
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... I just used 'insight'... didn't see lessons typed out
Storm Nordwind: They can be insights Gen if you choose them to be
Adams Rubble: History offers lessons mostly for the latter
Storm Nordwind: "History repeats itself because most people don't listen first time!"
Adams Rubble: But I may learn from things my mother or father did, or an older sibling did (or not do) too
genesis Zhangsun: and were these insights always present or were they discovered at certain moments providing a "lesson"?
genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed
Storm Nordwind: Who can say for anyone else?
Adams Rubble: The lessons are not just there, we need to look at history and see what happened
Storm Nordwind: Every experience of every moment can be full of insight
Storm Nordwind: It is the personal attitude that transforms them from 'neutral' to 'important for us'
Adams Rubble: The past is interpreted by results

Gaya gave us a nice image for the way she learned from her own experiences and those of others.

Gaya Ethaniel: learning from others' mistake for me is more like storing info... notes to be compared later for my own experience. Insights is something I gain as I go along
genesis Zhangsun: Yes I like that Gaya :0
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: not sure how 'lessons' fit into this
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

genesis now revealed why she had steered the discussion into this area. What are lessons of experience? Are they real? Are they complete? What are they?

genesis Zhangsun: I just ask because sometimes I find some danger in interpreting events as a lesson
Storm Nordwind: What sort of danger?
Gaya Ethaniel: Insights stays with me naturally and affect how I live without 'forcing' myself to be a certain way. Lessons I guess are stories that I remember and some stick out more and some doesn't...
genesis Zhangsun: sometimes one tells a story that is convenient, easily understood and overly simplistic
Adams Rubble: I agree Gen
Gaya Ethaniel nods
genesis Zhangsun: and the past is them in the future interpreted by the conclusion one has made
genesis Zhangsun: leaving out a lot of other things
genesis Zhangsun: which may have been "important" as well
Storm Nordwind: Even the best storytellers miss things out when they tell stories
Adams Rubble: yes
genesis Zhangsun: sure Storm
genesis Zhangsun: that is the key
genesis Zhangsun: that they are stories
Storm Nordwind: EVen the best listeners miss things out too
Adams Rubble: A good historian looks at everything very carefully
Storm Nordwind used to be a professional storyteller
genesis Zhangsun: which is more playful, more lightly worn then lessons
Adams Rubble: But that is literature...a different animal
Storm Nordwind: Storytelling, as far as I'm concerned, is an oral tradition, far more than a written one
Adams Rubble: yes, of course Storm
Adams Rubble: When the oral tradition is written then it is literature :)
Storm Nordwind: Yes. I doubt people have recorded many of my stories!
genesis Zhangsun: interesting to think of the stories we tell about our ourselves
genesis Zhangsun: the ones we pick and choose to repeat over and over
Storm Nordwind: And who is the audience?
genesis Zhangsun: anyone who is willing to listen ;)
Storm Nordwind chuckles

So we were telling stories about ourselves, to ourselves and others. But what happens when we tell stories about other people to those same people?

Adams Rubble: I was reading how parent can shape a child's sense of self by what stories they chose to tell about childhood
Adams Rubble: parents
Gaya Ethaniel: pls go on
Adams Rubble: Parents pick and choose from the events that happen to a child
Adams Rubble: They may be positive ones or negatives ones
Adams Rubble: They remember how a child spilled something on the rug and tell it again and again giving a child a sense that he/she is clumsy
Adams Rubble: Or there may be a story about something heroic the child did
Fael Illyar: Interesting that I've never had stories I've kept telling to everyone I meet.
Adams Rubble: and give a child a sense that he/she is a hero/heroine
Adams Rubble: We all have a mix
Adams Rubble: I am noticing it with photographs too
genesis Zhangsun: that is very interesting Adams
Fael Illyar: Well, it's more like I've been avoiding telling things about myself.
Gaya Ethaniel: I used to Fael but I have lost those stories somewhat over last few years
Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must run now :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
Adams Rubble: See you all. Nice chatting :0
genesis Zhangsun: bye Adams!
Adams Rubble: :)
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Storm Nordwind waves to Adams

Fael brought up an interesting point about relating her experience in a story.

genesis Zhangsun: so we have been talking about stories as ways in which the past and ourselves are represented are insights then just stories or representations of the "truth"
Fael Illyar: When I try to think of stories to tell people about myself, nothing comes to mind
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... that's interesting Fael
Fael Illyar: Stories do come to mind when I hear/read something that relates to the particular story and that's when I might tell a story but ...
Fael Illyar: I can't recall them without the topic of the conversation being related in some way
Gaya Ethaniel: what do you mean by stories of yourself here?
Fael Illyar: well, stories about things I've done or I've seen others do.
Fael Illyar: If someone just asks me to tell one, I come up with nothing :)
Gaya Ethaniel recalls something about 'bees'
Storm Nordwind: That's perhaps because you have no original personal purpose for a story
Fael Illyar: if you give me a context, story will come up :)
Gaya Ethaniel: i c what you mean now Fael
Gaya Ethaniel: you told me the bee story because we were talking about phobia was that right?
Fael Illyar: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: ok got it
Gaya Ethaniel: so you don't recall the past at leisure sometimes?
Fael Illyar: no, I can't recall doing that

gen and I both looked at what Fael had said and came to the same conclusion at the same time. (This is what happens when you type long sentences!)

genesis Zhangsun: That is an interesting thing about personal stories it speaks so much more to the purpose for telling the story then the story itself
Storm Nordwind: That's a very pragmatic approach to stories - linked in with a need, even if that need is just someone else's question
Gaya Ethaniel: For me I recall the past if something triggers me to do so... i.e. photos or people etc
genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed perhaps you just have no agenda Fael
genesis Zhangsun: which would be so refreshing :)
Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
genesis Zhangsun: in general everyone has an agenda ;)
Fael Illyar: when I'm analysing myself, I sometimes remember the past but ... I don't remember those at leisure.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel frowns at the word 'agenda'
Fael Illyar: come to think of it, my leisure has tended to be either lost in thought about an interesting problem or, more recently, not thinking at all.
Storm Nordwind: I used to tell stories for money. People paid to see and listen. I have to remind myself that most people have not paid and therefore are probably not interested!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Fael Illyar: :)
Gaya Ethaniel 's leisure often exclude pondering too much!

It had been a long session. Real Life was calling. It was time for me to go.

Storm Nordwind: Well it's soon time for me to tell the story of this meeting on the Wiki!
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Storm Nordwind: Well if anything else of interest comes up, please add it on after my entry. :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure Storm
genesis Zhangsun: bye Storm :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Storm :)
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Gaya Ethaniel: Must get going here too. I'm PaBed out.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Fael Illyar: See you later Gaya :)
Storm Nordwind: Good to see you all. Quite fascinating discussion
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
genesis Zhangsun: Bye Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Good day everyone. Thank you again.