2008.08.17 08:00 - Being and Seeing and Sharing

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    This Sunday morning, at 8 am SLT, we had our weekly PaB guardian meeting. Until now, most of these meetings have been more technical/organizatorial, but recently we have decided to push all that off to email discussions, freeing up the weekly meeting to talk instead about the content of Play as Being, about Playing and Being. From now on, we will post the chat logs of these sessions here as well, bringing the total number of sessions each week to 29.

    When I (Pema) came in, there were already quite a number of guardians present. In total we would have 14 guardians, namely:

    Adams Rubble
    Avastu Maruti
    Caledonia Heron
    Doug Sosa
    Fael Illyar
    Gaya Ethaniel
    Genesis Zhangsun
    Maxine Walden
    Pema Pera
    Riddle Sideways
    Sky Szimmer
    Storm Nordwind
    Threedee Shepherd
    Wol Euler

    In addition, Tomo Yuitza also joined us. We had our usual rounds of greetings, and after a few minutes, when things quieted down, we were ready to take off. I have not added any comments. Given the vivid flow of ideas, reports and responses, comments didn't seem called for here, today.

    Pema Pera: So let's get started!
    Pema Pera: Thanks all for coming here on an early Sunday morning in the US or whatever time it may be elsewhere
    Pema Pera: Our theme is Play as Being -- let's talk about Play and about Being, anyone?
    genesis Zhangsun: There is a tendency sometimes to focus on the individual rather than being
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I can understand that Gen
    genesis Zhangsun: this seems to be happening a bit more intensely this week
    Sky Szimmer: yes. for me too. lately I have adopted Being seeing as a mantra and that seems to help a bit
    Pema Pera: Can you say more, Sky?
    genesis Zhangsun: Many of us here seemed to have strong individual experiences
    genesis Zhangsun: this week
    Pema Pera: sorry, Gen, didn't mean to interrupt
    genesis Zhangsun: no problem please Sky
    Sky Szimmer: i find that I don't appreciate Being enough
    Sky Szimmer: I take too much for granted
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Sky Szimmer: but when i use the mantra it changes the quality a bit
    Storm Nordwind: Can you describe what you mean by mantra Sky?
    Sky Szimmer: just repeating Being seeing
    Sky Szimmer: rather than me seeing
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Sky Szimmer: it changes the seeing quality
    Adams Rubble: Yesterday and this morning I have been thinking along lines similar to Gen and Sky
    Sky Szimmer: i hate to use the statement of reminding myself as Avastu set me straight that there is no self to remind
    genesis Zhangsun: how does the seeing quality change you?
    genesis Zhangsun: ah yes you answered
    Adams Rubble: This morning I was thinking of religious gestures, likes hands folded, bowing to the God in another, or lying prostrate and was wondering if these are universal symbols of understanding our place within Being
    Sky Szimmer: I realized that whatever it is that 'I" do, it is really Being doing, but somehow, I can't appreciate it enought but the mantra helps a bit, sorry if I am repetitive
    Maxine Walden: Adams, could you say more?
    Adams Rubble: My thought is similar to yours Sky
    genesis Zhangsun: it is amazing isn't it how often I think to myself "ah I have it now" and then it slips and we must continue to remind ourselves all the time
    doug Sosa: I am puzzled as to why beig as seeing still seems so local to where doug's body is.
    genesis Zhangsun: I understand why the repetition is necessary
    Adams Rubble: I got on the thought, Maxine, because, like Sky, I am thinking I need some reminders in RL
    Caledonia Heron: it's like peek-a-boo and..., it's always there anyway, whether seen or not :)
    Adams Rubble: As the fifteen minutes reminds us to stop
    Sky Szimmer: I am also trying to appreciate the quality of peace when the mind is quiet and observing that peace consciously
    Faenik loves wells!
    Faenik giggles. that tickles.
    Sky Szimmer: Cal, that is the tricky part because everything is Being but then the self is so persistent is claiming it all as a separate entity
    Maxine Walden: Itry not to minimize my experience of the individual me, but to try to 'let it Be' as I then try to step aside for Being
    Faenik: indeed?
    Maxine Walden: when I try to push my 'self' to the side too much it becomes more mechanical, perhaps even withering
    Sky Szimmer: Can you explain how you do that Maxine?
    Sky Szimmer: than it seems to have dualisim, in the sense that there is a 'me" and there is Being
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Maxine it seems for some including myself sometimes to step away first there must be a confrontation of the self to see what we are stepping away from
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    genesis Zhangsun: in order to drop the "me" we must see the "me"
    Maxine Walden: I guess I first just try quietly to sense where I feel myself to be (Be) and appreciate that is part of Being, and then try gently to step aside to allow a greater appreciation of Being; not dual, but more unitary for me that way
    Caledonia Heron: lol, or you could be oblivious and step away anyway :)
    genesis Zhangsun: how so Cal?
    Caledonia Heron: it's a way to say things aren't linear
    genesis Zhangsun: hmmm good point
    Sky Szimmer: I love to hear more about that
    Caledonia Heron: but then I would have to tell a story :) ... kind of linear :)
    Storm Nordwind: I find when I see "what is", the "me" has already gone.
    Sky Szimmer: eagerly awaiting
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, nowhere in sight
    genesis Zhangsun: ah yes Storm!
    doug Sosa: Who is the I in "I see?"
    genesis Zhangsun: direct seeing
    Caledonia Heron: it might be more accurate to say "see" rather than "I see"
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Cal!
    Storm Nordwind: At that point there is no longer an I to see doug.
    Sky Szimmer: please Cal. tell your story!
    Caledonia Heron: that's all the business with using "I", "me" ... it's not a language exercise, it's a state
    Riddle Sideways: good morning all, sorry I am late
    Faenik: ah :)
    Wol Euler: hello riddle
    Sky Szimmer: I find that linear thinking is hard to rid, and would love another perspective
    Caledonia Heron: lol, sorry Sky I don't really have a story
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Sky Szimmer: shucks...
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Threedee Shepherd: My daily experience in LoR language has rocks, trees, cats and humans, (including the human that is associated with this Av). It is at the locus of this embodied human that "my" experiences of Being occur--when that momentarily happens.
    genesis Zhangsun: Yes I see "it", "it" sees me but if there is no "I" and there is no "it" there is only the seeing
    Sky Szimmer: Maxine, I am still not sure that one can keep a self and step away. It'd seem to me that self has to drop off
    doug Sosa: But it is still "local" to ..? :)
    Storm Nordwind: No doug, it need not be in my experience
    Caledonia Heron: it does not appear to me that self is relevant at that point Sky
    doug Sosa: "In my experience" has a lot of reference to space and person.
    Storm Nordwind: That's just playing with my polite words, doug! :)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Maxine Walden: Sky, maybe so, or maybe the self becomes a seeing self;
    Sky Szimmer: I agree Cal. so, I can't see how Being would still maintain a self
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, because I am aware of space and of this corporeal person.
    Caledonia Heron: ack, left out the not ! self is not relevant at that point
    Pema Pera: I think there is nothing wrong with a self per se, and we certainly don't have to suppress or deny it -- the challenge is to wear it lightly without identifying with it, and recognizing it as also Being
    Storm Nordwind nods and agrees
    Pema Pera: so I agree with Maxine and Threedee
    Pema Pera: and also with the other voices
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: the balance is the challenge
    Maxine Walden: maybe others are more evolved, but even when I feel that I am in touch, more touch with Being, more open to it, I am still experiencing it through a 'me'
    Threedee Shepherd searches for a different word than "identify"
    Caledonia Heron: which was the point - self is not relevant, nothing is really relevant, there is no relevance, no space, time, place, whatever reference point you care to hold on to
    Sky Szimmer: It does seem that the sensations are felt at the physical body level. so the point of reference is still from this body of mine
    Maxine Walden: I appreciate more and more Pema's note of 'wearing it lightly', all parts of our experience, even Being
    Pema Pera: Temperaments are different. We all have to follow our own nature, while opening for the one Nature, Being. And we can all learn from each other, without having to follow each other's example in any specific way -- that may not work.
    Caledonia Heron: good point Pema, part of why I have not story, everyone has their own "story", way, non-relevance
    genesis Zhangsun: isn't our own nature the one nature?
    Caledonia Heron: *no story
    Pema Pera: ultimate, yes, Gen, but it appears as many natures
    Pema Pera: like colors in a rainbow
    Pema Pera: or leaves on a tree
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    doug Sosa: unity and multiplicity are both real and only diverge in thought.
    Sky Szimmer: ok. correction in my last statement, while in Being seeing, there is no sense of a physical body, but then when the wind blows, chill is felt. but it seems to be felt where a perceived body is., do you guys have another desciption of where wind is felt
    Adams Rubble: wind can be a warm breeze warming the body
    Pema Pera: Being can see the semblance of a physical body, its appearance, without imputing a solid existence
    Storm Nordwind: while in Being seeing, the wind and where the chill is felt is all part of Being
    Threedee Shepherd: At present my sense of Being is that its nature is fractal, not holographic. I know this sounds technical and I can say more, but that will take lots of words.
    Maxine Walden: maybe the wind reminds you of many simultaneous levels of reality
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps where "chill" becomes self, local is when we let that sensation become "I'm cold" "I'm unhappy in this cold" "I hate cold in general"
    Maxine Walden: nice thought, Gen
    Maxine Walden: I would appreciate hearing more Threedee, appreciate it may be a complex thought
    Caledonia Heron: turquiose looks like blue to some, green to others, it is a fine tuned perception, all are valid as turquiose it would seem
    Maxine Walden: when I feel at peace, the holographic view is possible, when I feel fractured, Being seems fractured
    Faenik: indeed?
    Riddle Sideways: I also jump between Fratal and holographic
    Riddle Sideways: had not heard others put that before
    Adams Rubble: Could someone describe what you mean by fractal and holographic? I think of a holograph as an illusion
    Wol Euler: nice description.
    Riddle Sideways: *Fracta;
    Threedee Shepherd: A fractal is a single large pattern when seen from afar, say a spiral. When you move closer, it can be seen to be made up of self-identical smaller spirals, look even closer and each of those parts can be seen to be made up of even smaller self-identical spirals. At every *level* of viewing there are parts and THE pattern. In a hologram every region of the image contains a representation of every object in the image, there are no *parts*.
    Adams Rubble: Thank you
    Maxine Walden: great description, Threedee!
    Threedee Shepherd: Actually I misspoke slightly. In the piece of film that generates the hologram when light is shone through it, there are no parts
    Pema Pera: Yes, thank you, Threedee! That's a nice couple of metaphors -- and Being, as beyond dichotomies, shows up in both guises
    Pema Pera: and we oscillate in our understanding between both
    Maxine Walden: Afraid I was coming from a much simpler place when I mentioned fractured (not fractal): my experience seems to depend upon how quietly wholeminded I can be at the start of the experience; if I am feeliing frustrated etc, it is difficult to step aside gently. So settling the mind seems an important first step for me at this point
    genesis Zhangsun: could love be the light that unifies the parts? ;)
    Riddle Sideways: yes, when the light (eyes) shines thru the 'film' is important focal
    Adams Rubble: Sometimes I begin understand better when I am agitated
    doug Sosa: I find that preparing for the 9 sec is couner productive. what i like is eneering in and lettin the frustration etc be part of what is being seen by being.
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Pema Pera: yes, Gen, Love is another word for Being (but not the needy and possessive love that is the more common currency....)
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps some start with love and move to Love
    Sky Szimmer: i have been finding it useful to separate out the emotional sensation, physical sensation, and the thoughts that accompanying them
    genesis Zhangsun: being to Being
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Sky Szimmer: taking each on separately and not lumping them altogether
    Pema Pera: and then looking back you see all that as already in/as Being
    Caledonia Heron: in the shift from being to Being maybe even love drops away
    genesis Zhangsun: are becomes part of
    genesis Zhangsun: the whole
    genesis Zhangsun: *or
    genesis Zhangsun: not *are
    Adams Rubble: Yes, pema. I am beginning to think of love/compassion of my measuring stick in real life for how I am doing breaking through the "self" (Whoa lots of thoughts since I started typing that!)
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Pema Pera smiling at the "breaking through" notion
    Adams Rubble: *as
    Caledonia Heron: mybe in the Being you don't need love, you are love
    Pema Pera likes "seeing through" but very much appreciates attempts at "breaking through"
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps this is why Love/Being is always just beyond our grasp because it is not something we can possess
    Maxine Walden: I agree, Cal
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Cal
    genesis Zhangsun: that is more direct
    Storm Nordwind nods at Cal
    Fael Illyar: gen, we are it. you can't possess what you are.
    Maxine Walden: agree we cannot possess love
    genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed
    Pema Pera agrees with Fael
    genesis Zhangsun: the mind wants to conceptualize to possess
    Maxine Walden: but if we love touch with what we are we may try to possess in a false attempt to regaain what we feel we have lost
    Maxine Walden: if we lose touch
    Wol Euler: (sorry, I must go, duty calls. Thank you for the great ideas, enjoy the rest of the weekend)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes but then we stay in a vicious cycle
    Pema Pera: bye Wol!
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Wol!
    Storm Nordwind waves to Wol
    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: bye Wol
    genesis Zhangsun: always attempting to replace what has been lost
    Riddle Sideways: bye Wol
    genesis Zhangsun: filling the holes with objects
    Fael Illyar: nothing is lost.
    Adams Rubble: I didn;t imply that one could possess love did I?
    Maxine Walden: agree, gen, just trying to illustrate that vicious cycle
    Caledonia Heron: I'm telling you my conclusions from experiences I've had but still can't really quantify or "conceptualize" what actually happens, just the sense of what is left with me afterwards
    Threedee Shepherd: A difficulty: Being is, talking about it Isn't :D
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Faenik: ah :)
    Pema Pera: but talking can help Being regain Being
    Maxine Walden: agree, Threedee, our experience is what counts
    Pema Pera: recognizing Being playing Us
    Caledonia Heron: hmmm, my brain says ok Pema :)
    Pema Pera: while we try to Play as Being
    genesis Zhangsun: yes perhaps PaB has become BPU
    genesis Zhangsun: ;)
    Pema Pera wonders how to say hi to Cal's brain -- Hi, brain!
    Caledonia Heron: lol, back atcha :)
    Pema Pera: ;)
    Pema Pera: Perhaps this is a good place to stop
    Pema Pera: would love to continue
    Pema Pera: but it's been an hour
    Pema Pera: what a wonderful conversation!!!!
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Pema Pera: this is PaB in action, in my books :)
    Threedee Shepherd: :)
    Pema Pera: let's continue this a week from now
    Pema Pera: and leave the organizational drudgery to the email list
    Pema Pera: shall we?
    Riddle Sideways: ok, yes
    Storm Nordwind: Works for me
    Maxine Walden: sounds good
    genesis Zhangsun: fine
    doug Sosa: :)
    Caledonia Heron: yes,
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
    Pema Pera: thank you all so much !!
    Sky Szimmer: hugs all!
    Pema Pera: yay!
    genesis Zhangsun: hugs all around :)
    doug Sosa: bye :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Everyone :)
    Pema Pera: bye everybody!
    Maxine Walden: bye all
    Adams Rubble: Bye everyone :)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

    At this point I left the meeting, feeling grateful in a way hard to express in words, and counting myself blessed with this wonderful group of friends.
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