2008.08.18 13:00 - It Can’t Be Attained, But It Is What We Are

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    Stim was the guardian that afternoon.

    Stim Morane: Doug!
    doug Sosa: hi stim
    Stim Morane: How does one assume a sensible posture here these days?
    doug Sosa: i think if you just click on the cushion itself
    doug Sosa: hey!
    Stim Morane: I see, thanks.
    doug Sosa: amazig how awkward that felt when i found myself mis seating.
    doug Sosa: hi.
    Stim Morane: Yes, it just looked/felt weird
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Starseed Xue: Hello everyone
    Stim Morane: Hi Gaya and Starseed
    Stim Morane: Let’s wait a minute and see who else shows up

    After waiting a minute, we started.

    Stim Morane: So, is there something anyone wants to discuss?
    Starseed Xue: ive been reading about spiritual awakening
    doug Sosa: always but quiet is good.
    doug Sosa: ah.
    Stim Morane: Do you have a comment or question about what you’ve been reading, Starseed?
    Starseed Xue: i guess im trying to find meaing
    Stim Morane: Does anything seem to help so far?

    At this point, Doug raised a question that we pursued only briefly during this meeting. Perhaps another time .

    doug Sosa: is there a difference between spiritual awakening and appreciating being?
    Stim Morane: AN interesting question, Doug
    doug Sosa: and i don’t know the answer :)
    Stim Morane: One simple difference may be that if Being is defined as being a very high-level thing, spiritual awakening can then be seen as involving a more broad, accessible range of discoveries
    Stim Morane: But that depends on how you define Being.

    Back to Starseed .

    Stim Morane: Anyway, Starseed, have you found something encouraging or nurturing of “meaning” in your reading?
    Starseed Xue: yes
    Starseed Xue: the idea of being a starseed
    Stim Morane: Ha.
    Stim Morane: Would you like to say more about that?
    Starseed Xue: im not sure if youre familiar with what a starseed is
    Gaya Ethaniel: Please tell us
    Stim Morane: OK. Good place to start
    Starseed Xue: Its a soul sent to earth to help awaken the planet
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Stim Morane: yes, I thought so.
    Stim Morane: I have read about this
    Starseed Xue: i feel like there is some higher purpose for me
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Stim Morane: well, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds
    Starseed Xue: haha
    Starseed Xue: very interesting

    At this point, Claire joined us, upset about some things that had happened elsewhere in SL.

    Stim Morane: Hi Claire, welcome
    Claire Beltran: Hi… I’m a bit panicked righ now, I have to say.
    Stim Morane: Welcome anyway!
    Stim Morane: Hi Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Stim
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Claire Beltran: Yes, thank you.
    Stim Morane: I hope it is not our gathering that is making you feel panicked, Claire
    Claire Beltran: Not at all… it is something I may have done.
    Stim Morane: Oh
    Stim Morane: Well rest here for a while.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Cup Of Green Tea whispers: Ah! Steaming Green Tea!
    Claire Beltran: Can I tell you what happened?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pls
    Stim Morane: If it can be described succinctly, sure. We’ll have to see after that.
    Claire Beltran: Well…
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb doug
    Claire Beltran: I may have inadvertently started spreading rumors about someone who made me uncomfortable around a roleplaying sim.
    doug Sosa: crashed.
    Claire Beltran: This one other person had doen some things that upset and embarrassed me, especially since they made me think of my own insecurities about myself.
    Stim Morane: So something has now been let loose that can’t be recovered?

    Claire indicated being very distressed.

    Claire Beltran: So I started avoiding him, and in the process I felt the need to explain *why* I was avoiding him. So I may have turned people against him.
    Stim Morane: I see
    Claire Beltran: And now he has told me that he has been ‘warned about me’, which has made me paranoid about the things other people might be saying about me…
    Stim Morane: THe situation is perhaps typical of modern media-based interactions.
    Claire Beltran: And when I told someone else about how I felt, she called me out on my own insecurity…about whether I am akind person or not.
    Stim Morane: But the essence is not so unusual, just part of the human condition of action and reaction.
    Claire Beltran: And now I’m just in a state of terror and self-loathing…
    Stim Morane: Yes. But you can stop now.

    This raised a question about what I meant.

    Claire Beltran: What?
    Stim Morane: Stop the chain reaction.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Stim Morane: Here

    Gaya Ethaniel asks Claire not to panic and to take a couple of deep breath

    Stim Morane: We all have to do this, every moment.
    doug Sosa: maybe not stop, but let …go…etc.
    Stim Morane: If you act as best you can now, on behalf of all, then it will still work out.
    Stim Morane: But start by stopping.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let it be. Not meddling, forcing, thinking…
    Gaya Ethaniel: Past is past. Nothing you can do about it. Only thing you can do is to decide what to do with the time left to you.

    At this point, Starseed lost his connection.

    Stim Morane: I think we lost Starseed. Perhaps another time. Are you familiar with the Starseed movement, Storm?
    Claire Beltran: I’m sorry to put all this on you.
    Storm Nordwind: No I don’t think so. Can you fill me in?
    Stim Morane: It’s a google-able thing. Interesting

    Claire expressed regret about raising disturbing experiences.

    Gaya Ethaniel smiles ‘no problem at all Claire. Just sit and take deep breath’
    Stim Morane: Claire, no problem. You are welcome to rest and recover here.
    Stim Morane: For PaB, the issue is to see that we are always in the midst of a kind of sanctuary and field of meaningfulness, even if we are not “special” (starseeds)

    Or that we all are .

    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Starseed
    Stim Morane: Hi again, Starseed
    Starseed Xue: hello
    Stim Morane: Gaya, do you have comments about the recent Play as Being practices?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thought we are going back to Starseed… am I wrong?
    Stim Morane: who knows?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Starseed I’d be interested to hear more. Would you like to pick up from where you left?
    doug Sosa: i must leave, apologies… bye :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Stim, to answer your question. I don’t have any comments at this time but will ponder on it.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Stim Morane: OK, bye Doug
    Stim Morane: THanks Gaya. Just checking in.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Much appreciated Stim. Thank you.

    Genesis entered .

    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Stim Morane: Is Gen with us?
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Everyone :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Lag
    Stim Morane: I see … or actually I don’t
    Stim Morane: Nice to hear you’re around though
    genesis Zhangsun: Hmmm ok I will be back
    Stim Morane: IS that a common thing, Storm … for one’s avatar to not be visible?
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb gen
    Storm Nordwind: Yes. If the avatar’s PC is having a slow connection, it cannot confirm enough info to the server
    Stim Morane: Welcome gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Thanks
    Stim Morane: I see, Storm. Interesting. Can you tell this is happening, or must someone else point it out?
    Storm Nordwind: That depends on whether you have the info cached on your machine. Sometimes you cannot tell yourself
    Claire Beltran: Hello, Genesis ^-^/
    Storm Nordwind: It’s a nice metaphor
    genesis Zhangsun: Oh wow Hi Claire :)
    Storm Nordwind: It’s hard to see ourselves as others see us!

    This was a nice comment on what started as a merely technical issue.

    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Stim Morane: Perhaps impossible
    Stim Morane: gen, we seem to be in a “hanging out together” mode today genesis Zhangsun: ah yes I see no hard topics ;)
    Stim Morane: not unless you have one.

    Gen did, as it turned out.

    genesis Zhangsun: well since you ask I wanted to ask you about what meditation is really about if we use the starting point that we have already attained what we want
    Stim Morane: have you an answer?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Excuse me. Thanks for the conversation.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    genesis Zhangsun: hmmm well I guess it becomes more of a communing experience
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Gaya
    Stim Morane: Oh, bye Gaya.
    genesis Zhangsun: hope my question didn’t put u off ;)
    Stim Morane: No, it’s a fine question.
    genesis Zhangsun: oh yes I meant Gaya because she took off
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Stim Morane: oh right, sorry.
    genesis Zhangsun: I say communing becomes it seems like it becomes more about something like seeing as being or seeing as enlightened being
    Storm Nordwind nods
    genesis Zhangsun: rather than any kind of training focused on self
    Stim Morane: sorry brb
    Storm Nordwind: Are you asking this, gen, from your personal experience?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I just noticed that my view has shifted on meditation
    Stim Morane: back
    genesis Zhangsun: or that my meditation experience has shifted
    Storm Nordwind: I suspect that’s a mutually dependent cycle
    Stim Morane: yes
    genesis Zhangsun: before I felt like meditation was a sort of hard training
    genesis Zhangsun: now it feel much more effortless
    Storm Nordwind nods
    genesis Zhangsun: which makes me feel as though I am doing nothing
    genesis Zhangsun: which is sort of a relief

    I wanted to clarify gen’s question:

    Stim Morane: gen, by “that we have already attained what we want”, do you mean “we have what is most important”?
    genesis Zhangsun: but sometimes it leaves me with doubt
    Stim Morane: I ask because this is different from alleging that we have what we want
    genesis Zhangsun: well what is most important Stim?
    Stim Morane: !
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    Stim Morane: This the question, for sure. But note that it isn’t what we usually grasp for, or wish for.
    Stim Morane: It can’t be attained, but it is what we are.

    This latter comment is probably the essence of most higher-level meditation instruction, but we didn’t run with it too far in this meeting.

    Stim Morane: So perhaps you’re asking about meditation based on this …?
    genesis Zhangsun: I guess I ask because those who are attracted to meditation tend to seek clarity
    Stim Morane: Yes, sometimes
    genesis Zhangsun: they want to discipline themselves their restless mind
    Stim Morane: Yes. And that is part of the point.
    Stim Morane: A meditation based on the view you mention, as slightly restated by me, is one that helps us point out the ways in which we still don’t accept that we are complete.
    Stim Morane: A View can show what remains discrepant
    genesis Zhangsun: A View?
    Stim Morane: for example, the View you mentioned
    Stim Morane: you asked about “what meditation is really about if we use the starting point that we have already attained what we want”
    genesis Zhangsun: yes
    Stim Morane: My comment is, “it’s about the fact that we don’t fully accept this nice sense of our completeness”
    Stim Morane: Seeing this can be very helpful
    Stim Morane: the holdouts are interesting
    genesis Zhangsun: which goes back to the comment I walked in on about how we do appear to others as we appear to ourselves
    genesis Zhangsun: others hold up mirrors revealing these holdouts
    Stim Morane: I see
    genesis Zhangsun: *do not
    Stim Morane: perhaps that can happen too, yes.

    A dancer glided in and entertained us for a while.

    jerome Sweetwater: hello
    Stim Morane: Hi Jerome
    genesis Zhangsun: hey jerome
    genesis Zhangsun: u are really rockin out :)
    Claire Beltran: Haha! Hi, Jerome ^-^/
    jerome Sweetwater: how we all doing
    Stim Morane: that is our question

    Dancer exits, we continue.

    Stim Morane: oh well
    Stim Morane: anyway, gen, your question bears on some of the recent PaB exercises, and my answer points at one possible use of such exercises, in addition to the “positive” perspectives they may engender.
    genesis Zhangsun: but those “positive perspectives” are not whats important is it…seems like a side effect
    genesis Zhangsun: the happiness
    genesis Zhangsun: from taking the view
    genesis Zhangsun: what other uses are there?
    Stim Morane: there are many possibilities, partly due to people’s unique natures
    Stim Morane: such exercises are mainly pointers, like so much of meditation teaching. But pointers at awakeness can be supplemented by pointers at unawakeness.
    Stim Morane: Another value is simply to push us through a door, when we tend to shift about or hold back slightly
    genesis Zhangsun: hmmm how so?
    Stim Morane: You’re asking about the first or second of my last comments?
    genesis Zhangsun: about the supplementing pointers at unawakeness
    Stim Morane: I basically commented on that … perhaps there’s nothing more to add unless you can think of a question …
    Stim Morane: Anyway, what do the rest of you think about these matters?
    Stim Morane: by “unawakeness” I simply meant the holdouts we already mentioned, gen.
    Stim Morane: Hi dowd.
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Dowd
    dowd Breen: hey
    dowd Breen: vs parlez franC?
    Storm Nordwind: pas ici
    Stim Morane: I will have to leave … will some of you be staying on for a while?
    Claire Beltran: I might be.
    Stim Morane: If so, could someone please send me the remainder of the chat
    Stim Morane: Claire, how are you feeling now?
    dowd Breen: ciao
    Storm Nordwind bows and excuses himself from the gathering for this evening
    genesis Zhangsun: bye
    Stim Morane: Well, gotta go! Please enjoy the rest of your time together.

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