That morning I was the guardian for the session. When I arrived at
the pavilion, Corvuscorva, Doug and Wol were already there.
Wol Euler: hello again pema
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Pema.
doug Sosa: hi pema
Pema Pera: good morning!
Pema Pera: Quiet morning here, it seems :>)
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Indeed.
Wol Euler is all talked out from 1 a.m. already
Pema Pera: I hope you got enough sleep, Wol!
doug Sosa: raging interior dialogs I bet.
Pema Pera: don’t bet on it, Doug!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hello, adams.
doug Sosa: right, no bet.
Wol Euler: naah, flowing internal meditations
Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
Wol Euler: actually, 1am here is 10 am for me, no problem there.
Pema Pera: not much sleep for you either, hey, Adams!
Adams arrived, and I refered to the fact that Adams, Wol and I had
said goodbye to each other only about four hours ago.
Wol Euler: hello again, adams
Pema Pera: Ah, yes, Wol, of course
Adams Rubble: Hello Everyone :)
doug Sosa: i feel i miss out by not coming at 1.
Pema Pera: so hard to keep up with all those time zones
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Wol Euler: set an alarm :-)
Pema Pera: :)
doug Sosa: how to get more out of life ? go to bed late and get up early…
Wol Euler: … and make up the sleep with naps
doug Sosa: the psychology of effective napping is a science.
doug Sosa: and teaches us about meditation.
Pema Pera: a science?
doug Sosa: well, requires thoughtful observation and good theorizing.
Pema Pera: I generally take a nap when I have jet lag — when I am both tired and have no other obligations :>)
doug Sosa: and what happens at the edges between awake and sleep?
Pema Pera: oh, it is very interesting
Wol Euler: dreaming? slobbering on the pillow?
Pema Pera: especially the process of falling asleep
doug Sosa: yes.
Pema Pera: more slowly than usual with jetlag
Pema Pera: part of my mind/body does not want to go to sleep, part wants to
Pema Pera: or so it seems
doug Sosa: the brain feels threatened and doesn’t want to give up vigilance.
Pema Pera: so fantasy takes on different forms
Pema Pera: more lively
doug Sosa: so here is my simple idea..
Pema Pera: easier to observe my as a witness
doug Sosa: the brain (mind) is always active..
doug Sosa: but whe awake it is constrained to dealwit the input from the senses.
doug Sosa: this acts as a restraint on brain activity..
doug Sosa: when we seep, we let go of those constraints..
doug Sosa: and the brain conitnues its activity but now free..
doug Sosa: and dreams..
doug Sosa: the free state, not constrained by sensory unput, plays, hence dreaams, and it is looser, more flexible, hence rest.. even in actvity.
doug Sosa: waking up reties the brain activity to the constraints of the senses .. this room.. this noise, etc..
doug Sosa: done.
Wol Euler: ty
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the brain feels threatened and doesn’t want to give up vigilance.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like that quote very much, Doug.
doug Sosa: with jetlag..
doug Sosa: :)
Pema Pera: yes, that could be an interesting line of investigation, Doug
Pema Pera: it makes a lot of sense
doug Sosa: The hard part is..
Pema Pera: at the same time there are other lines of inquiry that do not focus on brain states
doug Sosa: most people think that when they “see” they are seeing reality without their own involvement. but since the same persons can dream, and see a whole world, itsuggests that seeing is a minor extension, or distortion, of dreaming.
An other way of approaching this is to say that observing the real world is a form of induced hallucination, induced by the senses.
doug Sosa: I think all i said could be said without the word brain.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Pema Pera: there are several ways to investigate, yes
Pema Pera: it is certainly interesting to study how the brain works
doug Sosa: with coffee and without.
Pema Pera: and also from within consciousness itself how we can describe what happens
Pema Pera: :)
doug Sosa: which i really prefer, without reference to “brain states”
Pema Pera: and then by observing in different ways, that within-consciousness can take many forms
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles at the coffee statement.
Pema Pera: for example what I suggested, Doug, a few weeks ago, when we meet in RL in Berkeley
Pema Pera: this sentence about appreciation
Pema Pera: which is pretty independent of states of awareness, in principle
I described the practice that I had suggested to Doug, to focus on a short sentence related to Being.
Pema Pera: I suggested to focus lightly on the sentence:
Pema Pera: appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being
Pema Pera: approaching everything from the Being side rather than the body/brain/mind side
doug Sosa: It took me a week to understand it, a week to practice, and .. now workingwith it as a friend.
Corvuscorva Nightfire wrinkles her nose, not really liking this idea.
Pema Pera: how nice, to befriend it, Doug! — and Corva, what do you not like?
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about this…that was a gut reaction to what you said..I’m not sure.
Pema Pera: that’s fine!
Pema Pera: gut and brain are complementary :)
Adams Rubble: So hard to see from the Being side (Adams muses to herself)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I guess, I don’t want to give up seeing from the other side, too.
Pema Pera: Corva, I probably have to unpack a sentence like that a lot, for it to make sense
Pema Pera: just to give one sentence without context doesn’t mean much
doug Sosa: th alliteration got in the way for me inth e beginning..
Pema Pera: I talked with Doug for half an hour about it at least
doug Sosa: but then i took the music of it as part of the larger story, so to speak.
doug Sosa: It is part of a series, drop assumptions, imagine being, see being, be seen by being.. (my paraphrase).
Pema Pera: (nothing to give up there, Corva, can do both!)
Pema Pera: yes, Doug, wonderfully put!!!
Adams Rubble thinks we all have a song to sing after talking to Pema in RL
Pema Pera: ah, Adams, did you catch my song, hehe ?
Pema Pera: I thought you had left by that time
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: It is good to hear that about you Doug :)
Pema Pera: Corva, part of the idea is to appreciate from one side, while possibly analyze from the other
Pema Pera: the two can go together very well
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, considering.
Adams Rubble: Excuse me, I have to leave you all for now. Good seeing you all. bye :)
Pema Pera: see ya, Adams!
Wol Euler: bye adams
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye adams
Adams left, and Doug told us more about befriending the APAPB sentence.
Pema Pera: Doug, can you say a bit more?
Pema Pera: how you befriended?
Pema Pera: or was befriended?
doug Sosa: ?
Pema Pera: or both?
doug Sosa: ah
doug Sosa: well, the sentence feels like a teffy bear, a walking companion, a bird in paradise when flying with thoughts. its just friendly.
doug Sosa: teddy
Pema Pera: wow, how nice!
Wol Euler smiles
To give a bit more background for the others, I repeated what I had told Doug almost a month earlier, in RL.
Pema Pera: the funny thing about that sentence is that you can best read it backwards
Pema Pera: there is Being
Pema Pera: which presents
Pema Pera: what does it present?
Pema Pera: appearance, all that appears
Pema Pera: what do we know about appearance, directly, empirically
Pema Pera: only that it is presence
Pema Pera: *present
Pema Pera: so what can we appreciate?
Pema Pera: ultimately only the presence of appearance
Pema Pera: the rest is added theory
Pema Pera: encrusted thoughts
Pema Pera: the pure core of what is is the presence of appearance
Pema Pera: presented by Being
Pema Pera: does that make the sentence more palitable, Corva?
doug Sosa: i must needs leave. :)
Pema Pera: bye Doug!
Wol Euler: bye doug, take care
Doug left, and Corva and I talked about different approaches.
Corvuscorva Nightfire considers..I think what I like about the idea of seeing is finding a bit of data in it.
Pema Pera: yes, but the notion of data itself has many prior assumptions
Pema Pera: which means you have bought into a detailed framework, context
Corvuscorva Nightfire listens.
Pema Pera: which is fun, like deciding to play chess
Pema Pera: and within those rules you can play a fun game
Pema Pera: or deciding to play within a culture, a language
Pema Pera: very rich all
Pema Pera: but if you really want to look into reality
Pema Pera: it may be better to drop all systems
Pema Pera: and start with appreciating the presence of appearance
Pema Pera: the most minimal and at the same time most purely empirical approach
Pema Pera: BUT at the same time you can analyze date
Pema Pera: data
Pema Pera: while also appreciating them as giving in appearance
Pema Pera: like appreciating a beautiful painting
Pema Pera: done in beautiful paint pigments
Pema Pera: both painting and paint can be appreciated separately
Pema Pera: data as well as the very fact of data being available
Pema Pera: does that make sense?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Stevenaia.
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
Wol Euler: hello steve
Steve joined us, slowly rezzing.
Corvuscorva Nightfire looks frustrated…sort of.
Wol Euler: “painting is not pigment” makes a lot of sense
Pema Pera did not mean to frustrate in any way . . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Oh, no..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I’m frustrated in the sense that it only sort of makes sense.
stevenaia Michinaga: Just stopped in for a few minutes
Pema Pera: where does the frustration bit start, Corva?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I suspect that is more a lack of experience and language on my part than any problems in communicating ideas on yours.
Pema Pera: frustration is the best guide, often, in exploration!
Pema Pera: like bugs in a computer program — show you where to go, what to explore next
Pema Pera: without frustration, no progress
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Pema Pera smiles 2
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am very much attracted to puzzles.
Wol Euler: oh! yes, as happened this morning. A bug in X’s program.
Pema Pera: we all have lots of bugs . . .
Pema Pera: . . . perhaps that’s why we dream, hehe
Wol Euler: true enough
Corvuscorva Nightfire: must go all…I will eagerly read this log..
Wol Euler: dreaming is debugging, perhaps.
Pema Pera: bye Corva!
Wol Euler: bye corvi, get some sleep.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: byee!
Pema Pera: let’s continue some other time
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins..I’ll work on that one, Wol.
Pema Pera: I love the way you want to investigate step by step
Wol Euler smiles. Do.
Pema Pera: and actually I have to go too
Pema Pera: an astronomy meeting
stevenaia Michinaga: Pema, I just wanted to thank you for that interesting article on the conscious mind from last night
Pema Pera: already a bit late
Wol Euler wonders who is guardian?
Pema Pera: oh, yw Steve!
Pema Pera: I am guardian Wol
At this point I had to leave; my duty in MICA, the astronomy initiative in SL, was calling.
Wol Euler: ok, bye pema, see you later on perhaps.
Wol Euler: ah, ok. well, let’s just end here then.
Pema Pera: so either of you can later add the rest, or email it to me
Pema Pera: sorry, Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: so much (perhaps 1000 words) can be what a picture is truly worth
Pema Pera: fun discussion it was!
Wol Euler: true, and true
Pema Pera: thanks, Steve, that was a fun meeting too, with that journalist
Pema Pera: first time that I had a publication turn around of one da
Pema Pera: day
Pema Pera: between writing and having it published!!
Wol Euler: wow
Pema Pera: http://www.ids.ias.edu/~piet/act/nat/experience/nyt97.html
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps we should put related links in the wiki as well
Pema Pera: yes, we could
Wol Euler: yes, a cross-refs page.
stevenaia Michinaga: such as your recent article in the journal
Pema Pera: Wol, I drew on a napkin, while talking with a journalist
Wol Euler nods. I saw it already :-)
Wol Euler: “confusing s and s prime”
Pema Pera: and he then called me asking whether he could use it as the main illustration for the article
stevenaia Michinaga: nice
Wol Euler: ah :-)
Pema Pera: he had a hard time finding an illustration about consciousnes :)
Pema Pera: well gotta go!
stevenaia Michinaga: you need to work on your napkin sketches pema
stevenaia Michinaga: bye
Pema Pera: hehe, Steve!
Wol Euler: heheheh. bye again
Pema Pera: c u both!
