2008.08.26 01:00 - Plans, Postulates, Hypotheses

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    That morning at 1 am, I (Pema) was the guardian. Adelene, Claire, Gaya, Kat and Terri were already assembled when I arrived in the pavilion.

    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya, Kat, Adelene!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Kat Lemieux: HEllo, Pema & Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pema Pera: Hi Terri!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: Hi Claire!
    Terri Holrych: hi Pema
    Kat Lemieux: HI Teri, Claire
    Terri Holrych: hi All
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Terri Holrych: Hi Kat
    Terri Holrych: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: My last session at PaB, Stim raised another possible topic/exercise
    Pema Pera: yes, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel looks up her diary ‘one sec’
    Pema Pera: “my last session”, you mean Monday, 1 am?
    Gaya Ethaniel: [2008/08/25 13:52] Stim Morane: Being vs feedback about Being.
    Pema Pera: I only saw Adams and you present there, not Stim
    Gaya Ethaniel: Log not up yet… Stim didn’t have time to explain what he meant
    Pema Pera: ah, my as in “which you attended” not “where you were the guardian”
    Claire Beltran: How long will this session go on?
    Claire Beltran: I need to take a shower…
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry yes one I attended last…
    Pema Pera: we never know, Claire
    Pema Pera: what did he mean, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have no idea… he had to leave
    Claire Beltran: I’ll just sit here for now, then… but I’ll be afk.
    Pema Pera: well, then we won’t have any idea either, I think :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: k
    Gaya Ethaniel: Adele was there… did you understand where Stim was coming from Adele?
    Adelene Dawner: …when, Gaya? Refresh my memory?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Threedee started to relate his experience about alternate and different space
    Gaya Ethaniel: How his experience is essentially somatic
    Adelene Dawner: Ah.
    Adelene Dawner: I understood what Threedee was saying, though I don’t think I could really put better words to it. What were you saying about Stim, though?
    Pema Pera: Hmmm, perhaps we can talk about something that is actually being discussed here, rather than trying to reconstruct a previous session?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure I just wanted to follow up but that’s ok
    Pema Pera: Terri, how have you been? Long time no see!
    Terri Holrych: oh i have been busy
    Pema Pera: Gaya, if you know what Stim meant we can follow up, of course
    Terri Holrych: sorry i have been absent
    Pema Pera: but if we don’t know, we can’t very well
    Pema Pera: np, Terri!

    Terri talked about her building project

    Terri Holrych: i was building all the time
    Terri Holrych: lol
    Pema Pera: what did you built?
    Terri Holrych: a sim
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes seems like that Pema. Let’s leave it for now.
    Pema Pera: k
    Terri Holrych: Ryusho helped
    Kat Lemieux: That’s pretty exciting!
    Pema Pera: a whole sim?
    Terri Holrych: yes
    Terri Holrych: you know how i rented a few parcels
    Terri Holrych: the owner let me buid on the whole sim
    Terri Holrych: build
    Terri Holrych: like gift
    Kat Lemieux: Nice!
    Pema Pera: wow!
    Terri Holrych: it was very nice of him
    Terri Holrych: thanks
    Kat Lemieux: My museum is hoping to get a similar “gift” of another island soon
    Terri Holrych: look up Gaden gardens sometime
    Terri Holrych: it was an accident i wanst looking for it
    Terri Holrych: lol
    Pema Pera: lucky you!
    Kat Lemieux: The best kind of gift!
    Terri Holrych: hehe its so mysterious
    Terri Holrych: being a noob its hard but i try
    Pema Pera: I don’t think you’re still a noob Terri!
    Terri Holrych: thanks
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: so ISM is getting a third island, Kat?
    Pema Pera: or just a wish?

    And Kat talked about her building project, for the International Spaceflight Museum.

    Kat Lemieux: Well, we have to finish the proposal, but the CEO told me it’s a virtual shoo-in
    Pema Pera: which CEO?
    Kat Lemieux: IT’s from NMC
    Kat Lemieux: Larry Pixel
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Terri Holrych: cool
    Pema Pera: within SciLands?
    Kat Lemieux: No, over at the NMC area
    Kat Lemieux: We’re calling it a “branch”
    Pema Pera: isn’t that a problem, to break things up?
    Kat Lemieux: I don’t think so.
    Kat Lemieux: We’re going to have different stuff ther
    Kat Lemieux: IT will let us have a fresh start, do things right as regards copy permissions, etc.
    Pema Pera: while continuing the old place?
    Kat Lemieux: Also, instead of historical builds, we’re planning to explore current and proposed space exploration
    Pema Pera: (we are talking about the International Spaceflight Museum, of which Kat is the Director)
    Kat Lemieux: YEs, we will definitely keep the old stuff running
    Kat Lemieux: But we’ve run out of space, and the builders are getting bored
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: For us, too, the question has arisen
    Pema Pera: where to grow Play as Being land here on the mainland
    Pema Pera: or get our own islands
    Terri Holrych: wow
    Kat Lemieux: Larry had offered to pay to move our existing islands to NMC, but we didn’t think it would be cool to abandon the SciLands
    Pema Pera: since we are creating forests, we like to keep it all here
    Pema Pera: so that you can really walk from one place to another
    Pema Pera: I bet Larry would consider it cool :)
    Kat Lemieux: Mainland has a lot of advantages, certainly.
    Kat Lemieux: Right, Larry is doing a little bit of empire building, apparently
    Pema Pera: a bit?
    Kat Lemieux: Well, a LOT of empire building!
    Pema Pera: hehe, understatement of the month :)
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Er… who is Larry?
    Kat Lemieux: Larry Pixel is CEO of the New Media Consortium
    Terri Holrych: o
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Kat Lemieux: IT’s a large RL organization who also have a lot of islands in SL
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok thanks Kat
    Kat Lemieux: YW

    I switched the topic to the PaB exploration.

    Pema Pera: Kat, if I may ask
    Kat Lemieux: I’ve known him for a couple of years
    Pema Pera: did you get any chance to play a bit with the 9-sec idea of Play as Being?
    Kat Lemieux: Well, no
    Pema Pera: haha, that’s fine!
    Pema Pera: I’m just curious
    Kat Lemieux: My schedule is so mixed up that I didn’t really think it was feasible
    Pema Pera: no 9 seconds left in your schedule?
    Pema Pera: (just teasing)
    Kat Lemieux: And I was worried about distracting me from stuff I really need to do
    Kat Lemieux: IT’s more a problem of the interruptions, I think
    Terri Holrych: i felt the same way
    Kat Lemieux: I find it too difficult to concentrate sometimes as it is, much less having the alarm go off every so ofthen
    Pema Pera: perhaps you are viewing it as far heavier than most of us do — just a few times a day, take a few deep breaths — is that an interruption? That is really all we start with, and what many people do
    Terri Holrych: o
    Pema Pera: and even that is interesting, to see what happens
    Kat Lemieux: There’s also a matter of motivation. I’m not sure what it’s supposed to accomplish, so difficult to think of why to do it
    Pema Pera: the truly amazing things is that a few deep breaths can change a day
    Pema Pera: AH!
    Pema Pera: no assumptions
    Pema Pera: just do it :)
    Pema Pera: but I can give an explanation if you want one :-)
    Kat Lemieux: Well, yes, but deep breaths on an appointed schedule seems so…. rigid
    Pema Pera: doesn’t have to be appointed
    Pema Pera: just a few times an hour is fine
    Pema Pera: or even once an hour
    Pema Pera: the point is more that we all experiment with the question of what happens when we take a brief break period
    Pema Pera: once a day
    Pema Pera: or a few times a day
    Pema Pera: or twenty times
    Pema Pera: and then compare notes
    Pema Pera: nothing more than that!
    Kat Lemieux: Hmmmm. Well, I do have to take breaks and get up and stretch, but don’t like to watch the clock to do it
    Terri Holrych: -.-
    Pema Pera: no reason to do it with a clock — many people do find it easier with a clock, one thign less to worry about
    Pema Pera: others prefere free form
    Pema Pera: either way is fine

    We talked more about PaB methods and approaches

    Kat Lemieux: But free form rather eliminates the methodology, doesn’t it? Ruins it as an experiment
    Pema Pera: The thing is, if you don’t use a clock, you stop to breath when you are no longer caught up in something — when you do a clock, or a random number generator, you can catch yourself in the act of narrowing down; and that gives an interesting opportunity to see your own mind in action
    Pema Pera: the sudden realization that you were far more caught up and narrowed down than you realized can open your eyes
    Pema Pera: widenyour horizons
    Terri Holrych: shock ur mind into opening up
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Kat Lemieux: On the other hand, I’m very practiced at introspection, and don’t find it at all surprising to get very immersed in a project
    Kat Lemieux: So i’m afraid I don’t see a lot of point….
    Kat Lemieux: Maybe I could be the “control” subject?
    Pema Pera: of course you don’t have to do it, Kat
    Gaya Ethaniel: Introspection and 9 sec experiences are somewhat different for me
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Pema Pera: it’s up to you, obviously
    Pema Pera: but what puzzles me no end
    Pema Pera: is that you let theory win over experiment
    Pema Pera: concluding theoretically that there is nothing to be found
    Pema Pera: rather than experimentally checking that there is nothign to be found
    Pema Pera: even when the experiment takes only a few seconds or minutes
    Kat Lemieux: I don’t think that’s what I said. It’s not what I meant
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Pema Pera: what did you mean?
    Terri Holrych: what do u use as a control
    Terri Holrych: lol
    Kat Lemieux: But I don’t understand what the project is really intended to discover, so how will I know what it proves, or not?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you need to know in order to try out Kat?
    Kat Lemieux: It’s one thing to let theory trump experiment, but experiment without a hypothesis confuses me no end
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I can only speak for myself…
    Gaya Ethaniel: 9 sec experiences somewhat ‘calmer’ ‘clear’ & ‘broader’ than my other ‘day-dreaming’
    Gaya Ethaniel: That’s the closest I can describe the diff…
    Pema Pera: the first satellite with a gamma ray telescope just looked at the sky, without knowing what to find
    Pema Pera: nobody had at that time every looked at the sky in gamma ray wavelength
    Pema Pera: there was no hypothesis
    Kat Lemieux: But the scientists who designed it certainly had some notion that there was something to look for
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    The conversation then gave a natural opening to talk about the new collection of excerpts from PaB sessions.

    Kat Lemieux: Even if it was to see if there was nothing there, that would have been a result
    Pema Pera: oh yes, for sure
    Pema Pera: well, we also have various ideas of what can happen
    Pema Pera: and in fact we have a list of excerpt of what people have reported
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_SESSIONS_EXCERPTS/Notable_excerpts_(short)
    Pema Pera: putting it together this week for the first time
    Kat Lemieux: Handy!
    Pema Pera: but again, no reason to go into that if you don’t have time, or are not particularly interested, of course
    Gaya Ethaniel covers her eyes… more excerpts to add still
    Pema Pera: :)
    Kat Lemieux: Pages says, “(There is currently no text in this page)”
    Pema Pera: ? for me there is
    Pema Pera: how about http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_SESSIONS_EXCERPTS/
    Pema Pera: ?
    Kat Lemieux: OH, the browser truncated the URL
    Kat Lemieux: There’s stuff there
    Pema Pera: !
    Kat Lemieux: I’ll bookmark it

    And on to hypotheses: Zeroth Life.

    Pema Pera: Actually, if you prefer experiments with a hypothesis to test, like me suggest one, for our 9-sec explorations:
    Kat Lemieux: ok
    Pema Pera: The hypothesis is that what we really are is something in zeroth life
    Pema Pera: and our first life body/mind is like an avatar
    Pema Pera: and the avatars here are twice removed from what we really are
    Pema Pera: The 9-secs can then be seen as tests
    Terri Holrych: or maybe closer to what we really are
    Pema Pera: is it really possible to go beyond body+mind in RL?
    Terri Holrych: yes
    Pema Pera: to consider them as what we have rather than what we are?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good stuff Pema
    Pema Pera: we indentify pretty completely with our avatar, while immersed in SL
    Terri Holrych: i have a lot of junk in my trunk
    Pema Pera: also with a dream body in a dream
    Pema Pera: or even with a hero or heroin in a novel or movie
    Pema Pera: so perhaps we do the same thing with our first life body
    Pema Pera: so let’s find out :-)
    Pema Pera: (I know it sounds pretty wild)
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs
    Terri Holrych: thats hot
    Terri Holrych: someone just imed me that they were going to hit a castle with a shrink ray
    Kat Lemieux: Well, my first question is, how do you know what is zeroth life and what is 1st life? Don’t you nneed to know to tell the difference?
    Pema Pera: you need to see first
    Kat Lemieux: maybe some definitions are in order
    Pema Pera: observations -> experiments -> theory
    Pema Pera: definitions come along the way, to make sense of the observations
    Pema Pera: not beforehand, then they will limit you — fishing with definitions in hand is like using a net that doesn’t capture the smaller fish
    Kat Lemieux: But it sounds like you already have some expectations — this 0th and 1st lives, for instance
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ‘Moon also used a phrase - eating soup with a fork’

    About hunches.

    Pema Pera: not so much expectations, more experiences that point in that direction, and that I now try to put into words
    Pema Pera: it started with a combination of hunches and glimpses
    Pema Pera: followed by reading in various traditions
    Pema Pera: then exploring in mediation and contemplation and talking with various people with long experience in this area
    Pema Pera: and then I began to see all kind of patterns
    Gaya Ethaniel wonders if Pema can say more about hunches & glimpses as well as ‘traditions’
    Pema Pera: the traditions are various, Buddhist, Hindu, Sufi, Taoism, Christianity too (especially Medieval mysticism)
    Pema Pera: the hunches were things like well let me give just one example
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure
    Pema Pera: when I was 13 or so, I was walking on the street, and suddenly stopped
    Pema Pera: I realized that when I was talking to others, that when I started a sentence, I would not know the end of the sentence
    Pema Pera: I found that momentously startling
    Pema Pera: a huge shock
    Pema Pera: I had been considering myself as in charge of the sentences I spoke
    Pema Pera: but suddenly I realized that my conscious mind really was more like an avatar (in SL speak)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Pema Pera: so that was one hunch, of many dozens, in my teenage years
    Gaya Ethaniel nods and thanks Pema
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pretty deep even when you were small Pema :P
    Pema Pera: :) I think many children think about these things
    Pema Pera: but then adult life comes with pragmatic considerations
    Pema Pera: perhaps I never grew up !
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles ‘ts a good thing
    Terri Holrych: growing up is over rated

    So what’s the plan?

    Kat Lemieux: Hmm. So the plan is to try to get in touch with or at least observe your inner in charge person?
    Pema Pera: that would be a psychological way of interpreting it, perhaps
    Kat Lemieux: I agree that many children consider things like this — it’s part of trying to figure out what life is about
    Pema Pera: yes indeed!
    Pema Pera: but it has extremely practical consequences
    Pema Pera: if we identify with our RL body/mind, then the only way to improve is to add
    Pema Pera: add more considerations, skills, complexities
    Pema Pera: but if we realize that who we really are is not that,
    Pema Pera: then we can simplify instead of adding, subtracting and cleaning the windows instead
    Pema Pera: we can drop things
    Pema Pera: like overly worrying
    Pema Pera: to give just one example
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: but all this cannot be reasoned out — only a little, to get started, the rest has to be experienced, to make sense
    Pema Pera: and we certainly don’t ask you to accept this on faith :-)
    Pema Pera: on the contrary
    Kat Lemieux: This seems to imply a belief in some other existence, or a soul or something like that?
    Pema Pera: not a belief
    Pema Pera: first there is experiment and observation
    Pema Pera: then theory can follow, with descriptions and implications
    Pema Pera: some religions talk about souls, yes
    Pema Pera: I prefer not to
    Gaya Ethaniel took a long while before giving a ‘genuine’ try at 9 sec also…
    Kat Lemieux: Thr problem I have with “experimentation” based on introspection is that it’s too easy to convince oneself that you’re observing something even if it’s just what you secretly only want to see to support some unvoiced idea.
    Pema Pera: yes, I agree!
    Green Tea (Hojicha): Mmmhh… leaves perfectly roasted, enjoy it Terri Holrych
    Pema Pera: so “introspection” is a tricky notion . . . .
    Pema Pera: we are not looking “into” something . . .
    Pema Pera: rather we try to drop all ideas
    Pema Pera: as much as we can
    Pema Pera: without following a dogma or system
    Pema Pera: and then we compare notes
    Pema Pera: really following the scientific model in that sense
    Gaya Ethaniel: Alas… RL calls. Thank you all for the conversation. Good day.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

    Gaya had to leave, and the conversation moves to Kira.

    Kat Lemieux: Bye Gaya
    Pema Pera: of course we can make mistakes — but not trying anything because it is possible to make mistakes is not very productive
    Pema Pera: bye Gaya!
    Terri Holrych: peace
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Kat Lemieux: True!
    Pema Pera: I do very well understand what you mean, Kat — I come from the same background of “objective science”
    Pema Pera: which has produced beautiful results
    Pema Pera: amazingly clear knowledge
    Pema Pera: one of the main jewels of what humankind has found
    Pema Pera: but we like to ask the question “what else is true”
    Pema Pera: besides science
    Pema Pera: that is the Kira slogan
    Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/
    Kat Lemieux: OK
    Pema Pera: facts and values are what makes up our life
    Pema Pera: facts can be studied by science to a large degree, objective facts
    Pema Pera: but what about values?
    Pema Pera: they are equally important, can’t live without them
    Adelene Dawner should go get a few more hours’ sleep before the sun comes up. See you next time, Pem.
    Pema Pera: I don’t want to leave them to pundits, mullahs, priests
    Pema Pera: bye Adelene!
    Terri Holrych: peace Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Kat Lemieux: Indeed, can’t appreciate science without valuing “truth” and “objectivity”
    Pema Pera: I want to study values in the same approach as science, but without insisting on the same definition of “objective”
    Pema Pera: yes, Kat, very true!
    Pema Pera: Scientists tend to say “you should not use values, only facts”
    Pema Pera: but “should” is a value judgment
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Kat Lemieux: Exactly
    Pema Pera thinks of a cartoon of a scientist, shouting “science is rational, not emotional!” and banging on the table
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)

    On to intersubjectivity.

    Pema Pera: what we call objective is really inter-subjective
    Pema Pera: there is no way a physicist can step outside her/his mind or world
    Pema Pera: but by comparing notes, with enough people involved, we get pretty close to objective
    Pema Pera: but it remains inter-subjective, with enough trained individuals agreeing
    Pema Pera: there is no reason that when doing forms of meditation we cannot get inter-subjective agreement
    Kat Lemieux: Actually, since my science (Linguistics) isn’t as closely tied to physical phenomenon, it might actually be easier for me to do this than it has been for you, coming from physics.
    Pema Pera: sorry what is “this”?
    Kat Lemieux: What you’re trying to accomplish
    Kat Lemieux: Discovering something intangible
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Pema Pera: as for “evidence”
    Pema Pera: let us take a very simple mundane situation
    Pema Pera: I am arguing with somebody
    Pema Pera: and for every thing I say, the other counters with another argument
    Pema Pera: let’s say I’m in some kind of silly quarrel
    Pema Pera: and then suddenly I see that there is no point in continuing the quarrel
    Terri Holrych:
    Pema Pera: I can smile, relax, perhaps offer an apology
    Pema Pera: and find a way to start anew
    Pema Pera: or move side ways
    Kat Lemieux: or just walk away
    Pema Pera: rather than continuing to fuel — yes
    Pema Pera: so that is a form of subtraction rather than addition
    Pema Pera: sometimes progress is made by finding more: facts, skills, whatever
    Pema Pera: sometimes by dropping something
    Pema Pera: now “evidence:
    Pema Pera: when you drop a silly fight, the evidence is there very clearly and very quickly:
    Pema Pera: the fight stops, you feel better, you see clearly how you were caught up
    Pema Pera: Now the idea of the 9-sec is:
    Pema Pera: much of the time we are fighting with ourselves
    Pema Pera: we are caught up in all kind of silly misunderstanding withing ourselves
    Pema Pera: and by briefly walking away
    Pema Pera: we give ourselves the luxury to drop a few sillinesses
    Pema Pera: then after 9 sec we pick up most of them again, habitually
    Pema Pera: but we may be careless, and forget to pick up a few
    Pema Pera: bingo!
    Pema Pera: we have made our life a bit easier — and more efficient too
    Pema Pera: so there is nothing mysterious about what we are doing, from that point of view.
    Kat Lemieux: ok.
    Pema Pera: Thanks for being such a good sports, Kat!
    Pema Pera: I very much appreciate it

    It was time for Terri to leave, and we then talked about postulates and hypotheses.

    Kat Lemieux: Sounds to me like you have a few postulates there, though.
    Terri Holrych: i have to go
    Pema Pera: yes?
    Terri Holrych: sorry
    Pema Pera: bye Terri!
    Pema Pera: Thanks again for stopping by!
    Kat Lemieux: You’re positing that there are sillnesses…
    Terri Holrych: seee u soon
    Terri Holrych: thanks
    Pema Pera: ah! okay, let me reformulate
    Kat Lemieux: and that by dropping them momentarily and perhaps not picking them up again, you can eliminate them
    Pema Pera: we are testing the working hypothesis that there are all kinds of sillinesses :-)
    Kat Lemieux: OH I’ll freely grant you the sillinesses! ;-)
    Kat Lemieux: Every way of thought has to start from somewhere, after all!
    Pema Pera: sure, but the working hypothesis is then also that we can reduce the number of bad habits, so to speak
    Pema Pera: inefficient ways we are internally quarreling with ourselves
    Kat Lemieux: YEs, I’d say that’s something that could be tested, once you postulate the “sillinesses”
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Pema Pera: now we have a package!
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Pema Pera: and don’t worry, it’s wonderful to have you here to talk about all this
    Kat Lemieux: TY
    Pema Pera: independent of whether you’d like to test something or not
    Pema Pera: I very much enjoy hearing your angle
    Pema Pera: on what we are doing

    How to get into the PaB exploration?

    Kat Lemieux: I really am curious about what you’ve been up to with this, and I enjoy exploring it, just don’t think I have he self-discipline to actually try it myself on a sustained level
    Claire Beltran: Me, either….
    Pema Pera: how about doing it a few times, say, tomorrow you take a few breaths, a few times, and during that time you imagine that internally there are a few children quarreling — and you just let them back off
    Pema Pera: A small experiment, for only one day, and only a few seconds for each of the five times, say, you do it
    Pema Pera: less than the time it takes to brush your teeth
    Kat Lemieux: OK, I can do that
    Pema Pera: If you’re game I’d love to hear what you find.
    Pema Pera: Thank you!
    Pema Pera: You really ARE a good sports, Kat :)
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Pema Pera: perhaps I should build a rocket for you now !
    Kat Lemieux: And you are very patient with me!
    Pema Pera: oh no, you are
    Kat Lemieux: Oh, yes! Love to have a rocket!
    Pema Pera: I am enjoying this very much
    Pema Pera: o o
    Pema Pera: there I go
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Pema Pera: but that will take more time than brushing my teeth . . . . .
    Kat Lemieux: But if you take it just a few seconds at a time….
    Kat Lemieux: ;-)
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: well, let me see
    Pema Pera: it would be fun!

    Now it was time for me to leave.

    Pema Pera: talking about time
    Pema Pera: I’d better go to dinner here in Kyoto
    Kat Lemieux: Yep. Or a spacecraft.
    Kat Lemieux: OH, you’re back in Japan?
    Kat Lemieux: will you be in Princeton this Fall like you thought a few months ago?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: September Kyoto,
    Kat Lemieux: We’re still thinking of trying to get up there in October
    Pema Pera: october november Princeton
    Pema Pera: WOW
    Pema Pera: that would be wonderful !!!!
    Pema Pera: We actually have a RL gettogether of Play as Being
    Pema Pera: Oct. 17-19
    Kat Lemieux: Well, no promises. We’re not sure we can afford it
    Kat Lemieux: Wow!
    Pema Pera: and you, too, Claire, are of course welcome to join!
    Kat Lemieux: That might make it easier to plan — having an actual event/target
    Kat Lemieux: right now we’re getting a bad case of cabin fever. Talking about a trip to Colorado & Utah, but not in the RV
    Kat Lemieux: New England is a bit more of an expedition, of course
    Pema Pera: October should be beautiful though
    Pema Pera: you can start in teh North and migrate South
    Pema Pera: from Vermont
    Kat Lemieux: YEs, and maybe with gas prices not as many people will be on the highway
    Kat Lemieux: YEs! Or Rowley, Mass.
    Kat Lemieux: That’s where some of my ancestors settled in 1639
    Kat Lemieux: Phil has never been to New England
    Pema Pera: high time!
    Kat Lemieux: Yep!
    Pema Pera: Ah, RL is calling
    Pema Pera: have to leave now
    Kat Lemieux: OK, thanks for your explanations!
    Kat Lemieux: And your patience
    Kat Lemieux: Have a good lunch!
    Pema Pera: thank you!
    Pema Pera: Great seeing you again, Kat!
    Kat Lemieux: YOu, too!
    Pema Pera: and you too, Claire!
    Pema Pera: c u later!

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