2008.08.27 01:00 - Hit Me Later

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    That night, at 1 am, I (Pema) met Gaya at the pavilion. It would be a quite night, with no one else visiting. It reminded me of the olden days, where two-people meetings were much more frequent.

    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya, how are you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel: Middling thanks and you?
    Pema Pera: oh, fine, trying to catch up with everything
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: from email to IM to all the other forms of modern communication
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Must be difficult…
    Pema Pera: I just found an email about another email service called HitMeLater
    Pema Pera: The idea is quite interesting:
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs ‘HitMeLater’
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes?
    Pema Pera: you can take an email that you got, which is quite important, but you really don’t have to time to respond right away
    Pema Pera: now the problem is — I know this all too well — that if you don’t answer immediately, it will be buried under other emails
    Pema Pera: while your inbox keeps filling up
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: so:
    Pema Pera: you can send the email back to HitMeLater with a number attached, say 12
    Pema Pera: then after 12 hours you get the same email back, as if it was fresh
    Pema Pera: they call it an email snooze button
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh
    Gaya Ethaniel: But I just use ‘flag’?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hm… but a long list of reminders do crash my Outlook yes
    Pema Pera: yes, but if you have a 1000 emails with 100 flags . . . .
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: http://www.hitmelater.com/
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is that a freewear?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks
    Pema Pera: seems free yes
    Pema Pera: I haven’t tried it yet, but it is tempting
    Pema Pera: oh well
    Gaya Ethaniel: Lovely
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you think we are just delaying the inevitable?

    Always the optimist:

    Pema Pera: I think we will find a new etiquette for information exchange
    Pema Pera: it just will take a few years to find a new equilibrium
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: nice combination, your flower and your somewhat more formal dress :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty
    Pema Pera: I have to learn to do shopping in SL, haven’t found the time yet
    Pema Pera: one of these days!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles ‘I can imagine but I’m kinda fond of how you look Pema, quirky’
    Pema Pera: do you shop by going somewhere in person, or do you use one of those web site portals?
    Pema Pera: ty :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Mostly to shops but I’ve learnt to use SLexchange yesterday
    Pema Pera: ah! I got stuck halfway, trying to learn it
    Gaya Ethaniel: It’s quite amazing… things ppl worked out in/around SL
    Pema Pera: when I had to go in-world click somewhere and didn’t get a reply
    Pema Pera: yes, indeed, that’s the power of SL
    Pema Pera: the people and their networks
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, I needed help from friends… they walked me through it
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: yes, 95% of what I know about SL is thru word of mouth
    Gaya Ethaniel: I’m curious why ‘popluation’ of SL isn’t growing fast
    Pema Pera: the “knowledge base” is pretty awful
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: you can find others asking the same questions you ask without clear answers — not very helpful :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: good question, Gaya, maybe several reasons
    Gaya Ethaniel listens
    Pema Pera: (^_^)
    Pema Pera: I really don’t know, would need market research
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah… I’ve heard that ppl call SL, sad life (from Register)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps some find it diff to get into?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps mostly it’s ‘boring’?
    Pema Pera: there is quite a steep learning curve
    Pema Pera: hard to say
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: I’ve been re-reading logs again for adding excerpts
    Pema Pera: yes, thank you!
    Gaya Ethaniel: It’s amazing how I still find something new in them
    Gaya Ethaniel: yw
    Pema Pera: yes, I have the same experience when I do that

    Gaya talked about PaB and change.

    Gaya Ethaniel: I must be changing real fast…
    Pema Pera: so much stuff there, a small encyclopedia by now!
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: can you say more?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well… mostly I find new things in something, say a book… every few months or up to a year?
    Gaya Ethaniel: But since PaB, I find new things in same thing I see every few days?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Even same day?
    Pema Pera: yes, I recognize that feeling. SL seems to have a much faster sense of time change than RL, and PaB maybe even faster . . . .
    Pema Pera: every week seems to have a distinct sense to it here
    Pema Pera: at each guardian meeting, Sunday morning, when I look back, I see a totally different week than the week before
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel needs to slow down… but find it hard to do so
    Pema Pera: yes, SL can be addictive, and PaB too, I guess
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Extremely… my interests in world is enormous, fundamental
    Gaya Ethaniel: With ppl in the centre
    Gaya Ethaniel: And myself
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not saying the world evolves around me here :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: Just a starting point
    Pema Pera: meeting people here is so easy, I also find it fascinating — the first months that I explored in SL I met a larger variety of people than I normally do in many years
    Gaya Ethaniel: Variety is the key isn’t it?
    Gaya Ethaniel: In RL, we circle around a ’set’ group
    Gaya Ethaniel: With RL responsibilities, it’s natural
    Pema Pera: yes, and easy access: even in ten minutes of time you can go somewhere and come back
    Gaya Ethaniel nods

    About excerpts.

    Pema Pera: was there anything particular in the excerpts that you found that was interesting or unexpected?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Ah… was re-reading ESBS just now
    Gaya Ethaniel: I understand more about what you were saying compared to when I was actually talking to you back then
    Gaya Ethaniel: It flows better… you know what I mean?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I don’t have to stop in the middle of the log to ponder so much before moving on
    Pema Pera: yes, it always takes a while to let new ideas sink in and take form
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: and it keeps going, keeps changing
    Gaya Ethaniel: Some of metaphors you used makes more sense too
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles and nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Lightbox for example
    Pema Pera: which one was that?
    Gaya Ethaniel looks up her document
    Gaya Ethaniel: Must be related to projector metaphor
    Pema Pera: ah yes, that makes sense
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pema Pera: You let Being see. Being sees in/as everything. Being has no need for eyes. No need for you even. Certainly no need for your eyes :-) Sky Szimmer: But still, I sense that the perspective is still somewhat linked to my body. It is not like I am floating above and looking down as I do now. Pema Pera: No, it isn’t. The light of the projector is not linked to any particular person appearing in the movie Pema Pera: Can you say more, Sky? Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe Pema, Sky is talking about my previous experience we talked about, like something looking down above my body. Sky Szimmer: I sense what you just described. Pema, but yet I can’t see in back of my head, i can’t see above myself. My point of view is still through “mouseview” Pema Pera: That is YS in YSBS. The BS part has no perspective, no vantage point. It is everywhere, like mist floating in a valley. Like the love of a mother being everywhere in the room of the child. Sky Szimmer: ah. I sense what you are saying. I am not there yet. The awareness
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sky Szimmer: ah. I sense what you are saying. I am not there yet. The awareness is not there yet
    Pema Pera: Ah yes, I now remember the exchange clearly
    Gaya Ethaniel: Didn’t quite understand back then…
    Pema Pera: that is a very tricky point to get across at first
    Pema Pera: and then once you get a bit of a sense of it
    Pema Pera: your understanding keeps growing

    More about change.

    Pema Pera: certainly for me, it keeps changing
    Pema Pera: sometimes almost every day, as you said
    Pema Pera: we are so centered on our own body & mind, to relax that perspective is really tough
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: certainly at first, but later too, we tend to keep falling back in the way we learned while growing up
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: So any new things or changes to add to the projector metaphor Pema?
    Pema Pera: well, the latest suggestion I have made, over the last few days, has been a kind of variation on the BS of YSBS
    Pema Pera: the Beeing seeing
    Pema Pera: but in a more direct form, you might say
    Pema Pera: through the sentence:
    Pema Pera: Appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being
    Pema Pera: APAPB for short
    Pema Pera: rather than saying “LET Being see”
    Pema Pera: to focus on “appreciate what Being is already doing”
    Pema Pera: may help
    Pema Pera: what do you think?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Kind of mid-way point yes?
    Pema Pera: hmmm, it is squarely on the side of Being, on the BS not the YS side
    Pema Pera: if anything further thank BS perhaps
    Pema Pera: hard to say

    Gaya brought up another question.

    Gaya Ethaniel: But ‘appreciate’… that invovles ‘I’ still…
    Pema Pera: yes, ah, I see
    Pema Pera: interesting question
    Pema Pera: what has more “I” involved: to let or to appreciate?
    Pema Pera: to let it rain or to appreciate the rain
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders
    Pema Pera: I could argue either way, I guess
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let - when letting happens ‘I’ is involved but not afterwards
    Gaya Ethaniel: Appreciate - ‘I’ all the time
    Pema Pera: yes, I see
    Pema Pera: what I thought earlier was: by “letting” you may seem to still have a bit of control, in the very fact of trying to give up that control, in letting something or someone do something
    Pema Pera: while appreciation could be more totally control free perhaps?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: We understand these two words differently as we should do
    Gaya Ethaniel: we do*
    Pema Pera: but yes, there are differences
    Pema Pera: “let it be” versus “appreciate what is”
    Gaya Ethaniel: Appreciation = immerse onyself?
    Pema Pera: the first one seems colder
    Pema Pera: or could be colder
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhpas yes
    Pema Pera: or instead of immerse, dissolve, let go?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ‘Detachment’
    Pema Pera: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes dissolve is a good one
    Pema Pera: or “wear lightly”, not really dissolving, but perhaps dissolving the attachment?
    Gaya Ethaniel: This ‘wear lightly’… still doesn’t ring a bell for me after all these weeks
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders on ‘dissolving the attachment’… sounds right somehow
    Pema Pera: wearing lightly - something in between avoiding and sticking to it
    Gaya Ethaniel: Attachment being ’selves’… ‘thoughts’… ‘emotions’…. ‘baggages’…
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pema, lightly is the word that just bothers me…
    Pema Pera: can you say more?
    Gaya Ethaniel: If we are talking about dissolving… lightly doesn’t sound right
    Gaya Ethaniel: It does feel light that state yes
    Pema Pera: let’s take a concrete example
    Gaya Ethaniel: But ‘wearing’ and ‘lightly’… together… not sure
    Pema Pera: would you like to choose one?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let me re-read. One sec
    Pema Pera: sure
    Gaya Ethaniel: Dissolving is better than appreciation

    About wearing lightly.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Wearing lightly… still unsure
    Pema Pera: the idea is that we can wear a jacket by buttoning up completely
    Pema Pera: and wearing it day and night
    Pema Pera: thinking we can’t live without
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pema Pera: Yes and that is not wrong. That may well be a good way to start to begin to feel your way out of your usual perspective. But that is not yet Being seeing. It is more like “you seeing You seeing” :) Stepping aside means giving up, even giving up any notion of center. No center means no separation, the greatest intimacy possibly Pema Pera: The intimacy of Love
    Gaya Ethaniel: Dissolving… fits what you said above
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah… wearing lightly… not attached?
    Pema Pera: and “wearing lightly” would be to unbotton and be ready to take it off and put it on again, whenever the situation calls for it
    Pema Pera: not attached yes
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles ‘got it’
    Pema Pera: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: That quote is also from ESBS
    Pema Pera: ah, thanks!
    Pema Pera: the reason to focus on appreciation is that it is a kind of alternative to doing and not-doing
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Pema Pera: doing here in the sense of reaching, trying to grab, find, search
    Gaya Ethaniel: Observing…
    Pema Pera: and non-doing here that can deteriorate in giving up and waiting
    Gaya Ethaniel: Stepping aside and observe?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles ‘ok’
    Pema Pera: and observing in a positive sense
    Pema Pera: not cold or distanced
    Pema Pera: immersed as you said earlier
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes not detached nor attached
    Pema Pera: into it
    Pema Pera: yes, exactly
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: like a mother watching a child
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: not attached to its games
    Gaya Ethaniel: Alert… aware
    Pema Pera: but very appreciative
    Pema Pera: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: and ideally the mother would not even be attached to the child — but that is extremely hard, almost impossible . . . .
    Gaya Ethaniel: Now that sounds like BS again… for what I do
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hm…
    Pema Pera: caring for yes, responsible for yes, but not attached (ideally)
    Gaya Ethaniel: YS*
    Pema Pera: in the sense of letting the child choose what it wants, when it grows up
    Pema Pera: rather than having plans for it
    Gaya Ethaniel: See Pema… BS YS just very similar to me
    Pema Pera: in what way, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: When you mentioned so far about appreciation, wearing lightly and so on. You meant YS or BS?
    Pema Pera: BS
    Gaya Ethaniel: For me those are what I do to do YS or BS…
    Pema Pera: of course it is great to do in YS too for sure!
    Pema Pera: but the sentence APAPB is fully BS
    Pema Pera: there is no room in YS to do that
    Gaya Ethaniel: So… I’ve been doing BS but thought it YS?
    Gaya Ethaniel descends into the world of words confusion again
    Pema Pera: sorry, in what way?
    Gaya Ethaniel: What you’ve described so far… I thought it was YS somehow

    I try to summarize.

    Pema Pera: let me step back, and sum up briefly:
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks
    Pema Pera: appreciation is wonderful, in the YS and the BS way
    Pema Pera: In the YS way, appreciation is for things and people and circumstances
    Pema Pera: very helpful
    Pema Pera: but in the BS way there are no separate things, not even beings, no time, no fixed identities . . . . .
    Pema Pera: . . . the ONLY thigns there are are appearances
    Pema Pera: something appears, and we stop there
    Pema Pera: we don’t reify it
    Pema Pera: we don’t solidify it into objects and beings and things
    Pema Pera: we just appreaciate how each appearance appears
    Pema Pera: very thin and subtle and ethereal — and very lightly :-)
    Pema Pera: now that kind of appreciation is the BS kind
    Pema Pera: does that make sense?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Ah ok… so more BS than YS recently for me then thou… I don’t mind either way… both nice
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for the summary
    Pema Pera: If I can go back one more step, starting from daily-life perspectives
    Pema Pera: if someone once steals something, we tend to call him a thief
    Pema Pera: that is reifying
    Pema Pera: from one act we construct a whole identity lasting over time
    Gaya Ethaniel: But ppl change…
    Pema Pera: that is far too much, and that hinders the “thief” to change back into a normal non-thief person
    Pema Pera: exactly
    Pema Pera: so instead of giving permanent labels, it is better to talk about what happens each moment
    Pema Pera: about what appears
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: and we can draw that line of tracing back, of unpacking, further:
    Pema Pera: instead of saying “I have a body” and I can see “each moment there is the appearance of a body”
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: with that attitude it may be possible to heal your body much more than if you thought it was solid
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pema Pera: it is called the placebo effect in medical science
    Pema Pera: but I would call it a shift back to appearance
    Pema Pera: appearance as a research
    Gaya Ethaniel remembers Adams cuddling her resentment
    Pema Pera: appearance as a resource, sorry
    Pema Pera: typo
    Gaya Ethaniel nods

    I refer to the power of placebos.

    Pema Pera: appreciation of appearance can save your life!
    Pema Pera: how so, Gaya, about Adams?
    Gaya Ethaniel subtly points to clock…. bed time for Pema soon?
    Pema Pera: no, 6 pm here, dinner time :)
    Pema Pera: but thank you!
    Pema Pera: the 7 am SLT session is bedtime for me
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: So about Adams
    Gaya Ethaniel: When I read that description on her blog… that was BS… my feelings that is
    Gaya Ethaniel: That could have been an ‘appearance’
    Gaya Ethaniel: That moment… does that make sense?
    Pema Pera: sorry, which blog entry, about what situation?
    Gaya Ethaniel looks up her diary
    Pema Pera: ah, Adams wrote about “cuddling resentment”?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Saying no to new Attachments - 46th Daily Log http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress....6th-daily-log/
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm hmm
    Pema Pera: I have it up, yes; which point on that page, do you remember?
    Gaya Ethaniel: 8. F. Remembering to sooth the attachments crying for attention which I forgot at this morning’s session. “There, there resentment and suspicion, everything is going to be OK. Thank you for your input, which was important to me. I think your concerns were addressed. Now go out and play and thanks”
    Pema Pera: ah, yes, I see, nice!
    Pema Pera: Like Rumi
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: yes, this can be done in the YS and BS mode
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: But as Adams R wrote this
    Gaya Ethaniel: Possibly leaning more on BS
    Pema Pera: in fact, the distinction between the two is something I don’t want to push too hard — everything we say about BS we do here in the YS mode after all . . .
    Gaya Ethaniel: Adams R or something else…
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ‘yes… that is for another time Pema’
    Gaya Ethaniel: Relative and absolute…
    Pema Pera: probably yes :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: We’ve discussed this before anyhow
    Pema Pera: yes, and I guess I should get going for dinner now
    Pema Pera: nice talking with you, Gaya!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you Pema. Enjoy your evening
    Pema Pera: _/!\_
    Pema Pera: enjoy your, let’s see, . . . .
    Pema Pera: morning?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: noon?
    Gaya Ethaniel: 10 AM
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Pema Pera: enjoy your time :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty!
    Pema Pera: see you soon again
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes bfn

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