2008.08.27 13:00 - GS, BS and ES - and sartorial elegance

 The guardian for this session was Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

Wol Euler: hello Quilty, Adams
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: Hello Wol. Quilty, Gaya :)
Quilty Bookmite: Hi everyone.
Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone have anything that they want to discuss?
Gaya Ethaniel zooms on Adams... 'looking good'
Quilty Bookmite: Indeed. Nice outfit. :-)
Adams Rubble: TY Gaya :)
Adams Rubble: and Quilty :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm, very nice.
Adams Rubble: and Wol :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Have you changed your shape Adams? Your face looks slightly different
Adams Rubble: No, just my hair
Wol Euler: new bits, haven't worn them before.

Fael arrives and isn;t accompanied by her usual school of fish.

Adams Rubble: Hello Fael :)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Wol Euler: hello fael
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Fael.
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams, Wol, Gaya, Quilty :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Quilty Bookmite: No fish todau Fael. :-)

The fish appear. :-)

Wol Euler: ah :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Ah.
Adams Rubble: Gee thanks Quilty
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble: :)
Quilty Bookmite: Any time. :-)
Wol Euler: really?
Fael Illyar: Wol, you look a bit different from usual :)
Wol Euler reaches for a mirror.
Gaya Ethaniel zooms on Wol
Quilty Bookmite: Your arms and legs look a bit short.
Fael Illyar was wondering if that's SL bugging or if your legs have really shrunk.
Fael Illyar: oh yes, arms too :)
Wol Euler: no, it's real. I made a zero-height av for a "size event"
Wol Euler: height, arm length, leg length all 0.
Wol Euler: th rest is pretty much my usual shape, just tuned to suit the height better.
Quilty Bookmite: I see. :-)
Fael Illyar: :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: but, um, don't let me hold us back from PaB matters.
Quilty Bookmite: I feel like I should make some change to myself to fit in. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: But I won't for now. :-)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

Fael brings up a core subject.

Fael Illyar: Ok, let's talk about the difference between YS,ES and BS (and GS?)
Quilty Bookmite: Sure.
Wol Euler: "God Seeing"?
Gaya Ethaniel nods 'ok'
Adams Rubble: Why the parentheses?
Quilty Bookmite: What would you like to say about it Fael?
Fael Illyar: more like ask, what do you think is the difference :)

We have a new arrival. Later in the talk the new arrival was asked if they wanted their words recorded on this blog. They didn't, so their name and words have been commented out. I have tried to keep the structure of the conversation as much as possible.

Wol Euler: hello *****, come and join us.
Quilty Bookmite: Hi *****.
Fael Illyar: Hi *****
Adams Rubble: Hello *****
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Quilty Bookmite: Have you been to these meetings before *****?
Fael Illyar: Adams the parentheses because I'm wondering if it needs to be separated from BS at all :)
***************************************
Quilty Bookmite: This is the meeting of a group called Play As Being. Anyone is welcome.
Adams Rubble: Fael, it helps some people who can relate to what God is but not what Being is
Quilty Bookmite: We meet 4 times a day. 1 a.m, 7 a.m., 1 p.m. and 7 p.m. PDT
Adams Rubble: The results are very different
Quilty Bookmite: If you'd like to read about what PaB is, take a look at this website: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Quilty Bookmite: Or, if you'd prefer we can explain it to you. :-)
Fael Illyar: depends on your understanding of God or Being I suppose.
Adams Rubble: Yes Fael
Quilty Bookmite: By the way *****, fish are not anything to do with PaB. :-)
Wol Euler: lol
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Fael Illyar: They aren't? I thought the go right in with the Play aspect :P
***************************************
Adams Rubble: Something is fishy about this group :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Quilty Bookmite: I guess they do Fael, but they aren't essential. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: fishy = unique
Quilty Bookmite: No need to carp on abut it Adams. :-)
Adams Rubble: Unless you do your nine seconds in a tank
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Fael Illyar: It's the fishy sort of humour we're bubbling up here :P
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble: Looking into the depths...
Quilty Bookmite: Anyway *****, PaB is a sort of experiment. Basically the idea is to "stop" for 9 seconds every 15 minutes.
Faenik: なるほど^^
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry to interrupt Fael. Thought I should at least give a basic explaination.
Adams Rubble wonders if the fish help feed Faenik
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel thanks Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: I have been neglecting my guardianly duties. :-)
Adams Rubble: Yes Quilty
Fael Illyar: no problem :)
Adams Rubble: No, not neglecting, yes to basic explanation
Faenik eyes the fish hungrily for a while ... then sighs deeply.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

Back to the subject...

Adams Rubble: What would you like to know from us exactly, fael?
Fael Illyar: Well, I was hoping someone would have a description of the difference :)
Adams Rubble: Well the you seeing is what we see now
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: The ES enlightened seeing, or ahat we may see once we get to where we think we would like to be, imagines what we would like to be seeing
Adams Rubble: *what
Wol Euler counds the levels of indirection in that...
Adams Rubble: Pema has described Bing as a bigger concept than God
Adams Rubble: counds?
Quilty Bookmite: Ah, one more point *****. These conversations are recorded in the online Wiki I sent you. Do you have any objection to your words going on the internet?
Wol Euler: *counts
Adams Rubble: ah
Wol Euler: (sorry)
Adams Rubble: :)
Quilty Bookmite: Bing? Crosby? i never rated him that much. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble: haha
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Adams Rubble: Being
Wol Euler: ha, I read right past that.
Quilty Bookmite: I gues, as Fael said, it depends on how you view God.
Adams Rubble: But GS helps some of us get started
Adams Rubble: I often think of BS/GS which touches on each
***************************************
Adams Rubble: God Seeing

A discourse on "God Seeing" and "Being Seeing"...

Adams Rubble: *****, these are exercises to help us see
Quilty Bookmite: I think if you don;t believe in God then you should ignore GS.
Adams Rubble: We look at what we see and then imagine what Being Sees or God Sees
Adams Rubble: Yes Quilty. Twould be a very useless exercise :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps not Quilty. I see 'God' as 'Being'
Faenik: why not?
Adams Rubble: Unless you have been brought up with God and the concept has a meaning to you
Quilty Bookmite: Then you believe in God Gaya?
Adams Rubble: Or as Wol says:)
Adams Rubble: Sorry as Gaya says :)
Adams Rubble: Sorry Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: 'God' I meant isn't strictly the Christian God...
Fael Illyar: that's just it ... if it's a concept ... it's already missing the mark :)
Quilty Bookmite: Of course.
Adams Rubble: Yes Gaya
Adams Rubble: Only for Christians
Gaya Ethaniel: Also not really in any religious sense...
Adams Rubble: that is the Christian God is only for Christians :)
Quilty Bookmite: I certainly see the two as the same thing and also as what is sometimes called the Cosmic Buddha.
Adams Rubble: Yes, Gaya, exactly
Adams Rubble: Yes Quilty
Gaya Ethaniel: Until I came to PaB, used to call 'Being' 'God'
Gaya Ethaniel: Just words...
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Labels. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: So for me, GS = BS, which is diff from how Adams started on GS
Adams Rubble sees a difference but cannot explain it and accepts that they are the same for many
Quilty Bookmite: So we have a fair idea of what BS or GS is?
Faenik: ah :)
Wol Euler agrees with Adams.
Gaya Ethaniel: difference between Adams?
Quilty Bookmite: GS and BS.
Adams Rubble: Well Dubrovna can speak for Dubrovna but I am here
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps GS means something diff to each of us?
Adams Rubble: Yes Gaya, it very well might
Quilty Bookmite: As does BS I suspect. :-)
Fael Illyar: most definitely :)
Gaya Ethaniel: BS too Quilty?
Adams Rubble: I think so
Quilty Bookmite: Well, we may each have a different idea of what Being is.
Gaya Ethaniel: Or experience of BS is different?
Quilty Bookmite: And perhaps none of those ideas quite hits the mark. :-)
Wol Euler: both are quite likely to be different, I think
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps...
Fael Illyar: Like a fractal looks different depending on which part you look at, we also perceive Being differently because we do not all see the same part.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes Fael.
Adams Rubble: Also for me, my understanding of Being is constantly changing
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe we even see Being as something different at different times.
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Wol Euler: probably only a difference of degree, though, I expect that our conceptions would widely overlap.
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Yes Wol
Wol Euler: (RL, brb)
Gaya Ethaniel: k
Faenik: ah :)

Disjointed part where we talk to our newcomer...

Quilty Bookmite: *****, are you OK with your words going on an online blog?
***************************************
Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)
***************************************
Quilty Bookmite: No problem. Do you have any questions? This must seem quite strange.
Adams Rubble was thinking today how looking back over the logs helps her to watch her mind at work
Adams Rubble: just watch her mind (forget the work part) :)
***************************************
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
***************************************
Adams Rubble: If Pema was here, he'd say, take your time, no worries ***** :)
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Some of what is being said here is the result of some new ideas that have come up recently about the experiment.
Quilty Bookmite: Absolutely Adams.
Fael Illyar initially found Being an interesting mystery.
Quilty Bookmite: The basic practice is the 9 seconds pause. There are a couple of enhancements concerning what you do in that 9 seconds pause.
Gaya Ethaniel was confused most of time initially but was drawn back to PaB time aftertime
Adams Rubble is often still confused
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel has been confused most of time but drawn back to PaB time after time*
Adams Rubble: :)
Quilty Bookmite: Also, note that this isn't a religious practice although many of us have our own religious practice.
Adams Rubble: No fish worshippers though
***************************************
Quilty Bookmite: I'm a Cod worshipper myself.
Faenik: why not?
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Why not <smile>
Adams Rubble: We have a Cape for you
Wol Euler: once again Faenik asks the right question.
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
***************************************
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Quilty Bookmite: OK *****. I will edit your words out of the log.
***************************************
Adams Rubble: Bye ***** :)
***************************************
Quilty Bookmite: NP. Bye *****.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: bye, take care
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope to see you again *****
Fael Illyar: Bye ***** :)
Adams Rubble wonders if ***** did not like the fish smell
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: perhaps she was hungry
Fael Illyar: too many fish jokes?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Fael Illyar: umm... fishy jokes
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Both works
Adams Rubble thinks this will a hard editing job

Well, it wasn't easy. :-)

Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Quilty Bookmite: Yeah.
Adams Rubble: You could just say someone was here
Quilty Bookmite: Still, she didn;t say much.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
Adams Rubble: no but we did to her
Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
Fael Illyar: well, you could just change her name :P
Adams Rubble: Jane Doe
Quilty Bookmite: Well, I'll put in an explanation for the gaps.
Wol Euler: A.N. Other
Faenik: indeed?
Gaya Ethaniel Googles 'Jane Doe'
Wol Euler: there's no user with that name, so it would be good.
Quilty Bookmite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Doe
Adams Rubble: Maybe it is a U.S. think. John Doe and Jane Doe are used in courts when a name is not used
Adams Rubble: thing
Quilty Bookmite: I think it is a US thing. I know of it but we don't use it in the UK.
Gaya Ethaniel: Wiki - This practice is widely used in the United States and Canada, but is rare in other English-speaking countries (including England itself, from where it probably originates)

Doing my duties as a guardian...

Quilty Bookmite: Anyway, back to the subject...
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: k
Adams Rubble is the only 'yank' here
Quilty Bookmite: We aven't touched on what ES is.
Gaya Ethaniel: Dollar not 'yank' Adams <smile>
Adams Rubble touched it
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, it's the European hour. :-)
Fael Illyar: well, almost :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Quilty Bookmite: So what is ES?
Adams Rubble: Somebody else want to give a stab?
Fael Illyar: My current idea of what it is would be what you're seeing.
Gaya Ethaniel: Pema Pera: So in ES there is a "be all you can be" and there are many many levels. You can do this for the rest of your life and discover new levels all the time. More and more subtle ways of noticing how there is some egg shell of the self left sticking to what you thought was BS. Being Seeing Gaya Ethaniel: So Pema in regards to E, really there isn't a being that is enlightened we could say? Pema Pera: That is correct Gaya. The whole notion of enlightenment is totally false. Absolutely speaking and yet can be very inspiring, relatively speaking Gaya Ethaniel: Wow... finally i think i understand what you meant Pema when you said the other day " 'fully enlightened' " Pema Pera: Paradox of paradoxes. Everything is fully enlightened as it is, already . . . "Reaching" enlightenment is totally impossible.
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry tad a long quote
Adams Rubble: Pema used a different word in the Monday 13:00 log and I don;t remeber what it was
Fael Illyar: as in, with YS, you'd have filters (judgements, opinions, etc) in place that dominate your seeing.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Fael Illyar: BS would then be seeing without filters
Adams Rubble: Yes, but different ones, Fael. It would help us see the filters
Faenik: could be
Quilty Bookmite: I had this question for Storm once but I would like to see if anyone else has an idea...
Quilty Bookmite: How do you know what it feels like to be an enlightened being in order to imagine yourself as one?
Adams Rubble: Quilty, that is why Pema has been qualifying this
Wol Euler chuckles. That is good.
Fael Illyar: no need to imagine. You already are, you only need to realize it.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Quilty Bookmite: Fair enough Fael, but how do you do that?
Fael Illyar: Simple, stop believing you aren't :)

This answer is so simple and to the point I'm a bit stunned by it.

Quilty Bookmite: Hmmmmmmm
Quilty Bookmite: I don't know what to say to that Fael. :-)
Fael Illyar: note, don't believe you are, just stop beliving you aren't :)

Even clearer!

Quilty Bookmite: Very good. :-)
Adams Rubble: When I have done these exercises I have felt that my imaginings were pretty lame and for that reason I do not like to do them. However, each time, I have gotten results mostly getting seeing beyond my "self" or the "filters" as Fae called them
Adams Rubble: Fael
Fael Illyar: the self is the collection of filters and perhaps something else too.
Adams Rubble: yep
Fael Illyar: which is why we talk about the self stepping out of the way.
Faenik: why not?
Quilty Bookmite: somehow the word "simple" doesn't seem to fit. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: The self is not so easily moved out of the way.
Fael Illyar: oh, it is simple but ... I never said doing it is that :P
Gaya Ethaniel is tempted to paste another quote regarding 'arrogance and pride and confusion' re: BS
Faenik: could be
Quilty Bookmite: Go ahead Gaya.
Fael Illyar: Yes, go ahead please :)

Corvuscorva appears

Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
Wol Euler: hi corvi
Gaya Ethaniel: Pema Pera: But trying to embed the absolute in terms of the content of memory in the relative is the dangerous part. There is where arrogance and pride and confusion can easily come about. Gaya Ethaniel: So be aware of where we are and be responsive to each situation? Pema Pera: Yes, Gaya. And in case of doubt, leave it out (the absolute perspective) Sky Szimmer: Yes it is easy to get sucked into the arrogance, pride and confusion because we have a memory and an insight. Gaya Ethaniel: So an example for the dangerous situation could be clinging onto the experience of Being? Pema Pera: Sure, yes Pema Pera: Being sees a glimpse of Being, and then a moment later, the "I" says "hey, that's great, I just saw Being" -- and that's putting things on its head. But saying "wow, Being saw Being, how neat, I'd like to learn to step aside better and more often" -- that's perfect
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all.
Adams Rubble: Nisaragadatta said that we are looking for the person who was present at our birth and who will be there at our death
Gaya Ethaniel: That's... a good one Adams

At this point I lose connection and can't get back again. Adams sent me the rest of the log on which I won't comment. Thank you Adams!

Adams Rubble: Hi Corvi :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Adams...Hi!
Gaya Ethaniel: My music teacher said that we un-learn how to breath... differently from how we did as newborns
Gaya Ethaniel was discussing spiritual aspects of breathing/singing
Fael Illyar: for the longest time I just couldn't not control my breathing if I was paying attention to it :P
Wol Euler nods. that was hard to learn, yes.
Fael Illyar: I used to get scared I'd stop breathing if I stopped controlling it :P
Adams Rubble: My local chat window has split. The tabs are no longer there. Is that a simple fix?
Wol Euler: are they separate windows?
Adams Rubble: yes
Wol Euler: just drag them back into the main one and let go
Wol Euler: IIRC
Adams Rubble: hmmm. doesn;t seem to work
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think I fix mine by touching the little arrow in a box on the top ritght hand corner.
Wol Euler: ah, no, use the left orange icon, at the top right
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Gaya Ethaniel: Fael, don't follow... could you rephrase?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: [14:01] Fael Illyar: I used to get scared I'd stop breathing if I stopped controlling it :P
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was interested in that too.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Fael Illyar: um... rephrase? I think it's all there just fine.
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, I crashed.
Gaya Ethaniel: wb
Faenik: ah :)
Quilty Bookmite: TY
Fael Illyar: wb Quilty
Wol Euler: wb quilty
Adams Rubble: wb Quilty
Gaya Ethaniel: You stop breathing when get scared?
Fael Illyar: no but I used to get scared that I'd stop breathing if I stopped controlling my breathing when I did control it for some reason :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok got it
Fael Illyar: I used to consider it rather amusing but rather inconvenient trait :P
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: ping goes the quilty. ah well.
Adams Rubble: I was just trying to send him the missing chat :(
Faenik loves wells!
Gaya Ethaniel wonders how to type an emote for :(
Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must leave you all :(
Adams Rubble: bye :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Adams!