2008.09.01 13:00 - Don't worry your pretty little head about that

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    Stim Morane was the guardian and asked Adams Rubble to comment because I "would provide much more relevant and insightful comments". Little did I guess that Stim seems to have been encouraging me to rethink my question to the group in light of their response. Nothing profound but a little lesson for me, Adams.

    Stim arrives finding Quilty and Adams already in the Pavilion and were later joined by Corvuscorva and Adelene for what became a pleasant Monday afternoon discussion

    Adams Rubble:  Hi Stim
    Stim Morane: Hi Adams and Quilty
    Adams Rubble:  Ah, now you changed back
    Adams Rubble:  We are having strange things happening Stim
    Stim Morane: Your avatars are changing?
    Adams Rubble:  My camera is wacky and Quilty looked different
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. He's around.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Stim.
    Stim Morane: Hi Quilty
    Stim Morane: Well, perhaps someone is giving things a cleaning
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Stim Morane: What shall we talk about today?

    I bring up the subject of talking in groups in real life. I never was particularly good at this but have been expecting more from myself after three months in PaB. Now I realize that this really was was my "self" talking. It did not matter whether I was heard or not in these conversations. What really was concerning me is an upcoming meeting. Taking my "self" out of the meeting is the best thing I can do. I can't be responsible for the result of the meeting, only to do the best I can to paraphrase Pema.

    Adams Rubble:  I am finding it hard to take what I have learned about talking in groups into Real Life
    Quilty Bookmite: What have you learned?
    Stim Morane: I find it hard to talk in SL, or even email. Yes, what have you learned?
    Adams Rubble:  Well, I have found it easy to interact in PaB
    Adams Rubble:  Maybe not learned as much as have been doing
    Quilty Bookmite: I think PaB is an exceptional group of people. Most of us are easy to talk to.
    Adams Rubble:  Yes that is so
    Adams Rubble:  I seem to be misunderstood more in RL
    Stim Morane: Strange, isn't it?
    Adams Rubble:  Talking volume is an issue too
    Adams Rubble:  Sometimes it is hard to be heard
    Stim Morane: But I have heard other people say this.
    Quilty Bookmite: You are quiet in RL?
    Adams Rubble:  Yes, I have been somewhat shy all my life I guess
    Adams Rubble:  I have never been comfortable in groups until here

    Quilty and Stim relate to my experience

    Quilty Bookmite: I was very shy when I was younger.
    Stim Morane: Several of my friends have mentioned finding it easier to express themselves in virtual reality than in rl
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. There is less worry abut what others think of you.
    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Stim Morane: I think several types of pressure are absent or reduced in SL.
    Quilty Bookmite: Do you think anything from SL can help in RL in this case?
    Stim Morane: I'm not sure. This is not something I'm very practiced in.
    Stim Morane: I'm awkward in any form of mediated communication.
    Quilty Bookmite: Even here Stim?

    Corvuscorva joins the three of us

    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Corvi.
    Adams Rubble:  Hello Corvi
    Stim Morane: Yes, definitely. Just the typing alone is a sticking point for me. I can't even recognize what I'm typing as reflecting me at all.
    Stim Morane: Hi Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all.
    Stim Morane: My voice is not in my fingers.
    Quilty Bookmite: You feel like you aren't communicating what you want to say?
    Stim Morane: yes, that's right.
    Stim Morane: But it's OK.
    Stim Morane: Anyway, your observation is interesting, and important.
    Stim Morane: Perhaps we will think of something you might try.
    Adams Rubble:  This is such an interesting subject. And I am the opposite

    Corvi notes that she hears the voice of the avatar and typist and notes a difference between mine

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: The funny thing is...I can hear voices in the type.
    Stim Morane: Say more?
    Quilty Bookmite: Do you associate a different voice with each person?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Each person I meet in SL seem sto me to have a voice...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: exactly.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Adams has two.
    Quilty Bookmite: Is it based on their appearance?
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: some.
    Stim Morane: sounds like synesthesia
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I swear I can hear which avatar you have when I read the log.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes.

    Adelene is next to make our group five

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I had that sometimes when I was a teenager.
    Adams Rubble:  Hello Adelene
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Adelene
    Adams Rubble:  That is interesting too Corvi
    Stim Morane: Plonk.
    Adelene Dawner: hi, all
    Stim Morane: Hi Adelene!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Adelene.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: not often...but sometimes I saw loud noises.
    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: as bursts fo bright light.

    Quilty introduces a term I had never heard...synesthesia and we discuss that

    Quilty Bookmite: Definitely sounds like synesthesia. :-)
    Stim Morane: Well, perhaps many people experience a bit of this.
    Adelene Dawner chuckles.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or an active imagination?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Quilty Bookmite: It is quite comon although I've never experienced it myself.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Never?
    Quilty Bookmite: I think it is sometimes linked with very creative people.
    Adelene Dawner: Threedee and I have talked about this a lot... current science suggests that synesthesia is actually pretty nearly universal, it's just conscious awareness of it that's odd.
    Quilty Bookmite: No. Not that I can remember.
    Stim Morane: I recall you are a Zen practitioner, is that right Quilty?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: interesting.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes Stim.
    Stim Morane: It is more likely that you will have an explicit episode of this during an intense Zen retreat.
    Stim Morane: That is quite common.
    Stim Morane: But very transient.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, I have heard of that happening.
    Stim Morane: It occurs most often just as the practitioner is going to sleep, or waking up from sleep.

    I had been thinking of Corvi's observation and note that I react differently to my "practice" when using one or the other

    Adams Rubble:  Before we go to far I want to say to Corvi that I would not be surprised if I spoke with two voices
    Stim Morane: Oh.
    Stim Morane: More?
    Adams Rubble:  With my different avatars
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. Do you feel different in them?
    Adams Rubble:  I stagnated when I used Dubrovna earlier this week
    Adams Rubble:  last week
    Stim Morane: What changed?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Adams Rubble:  Everything just seemd to slow down to a halt
    Quilty Bookmite: I heard you use the name Dubrovna before but I didn't realise it was one of your avatars.
    Adams Rubble:  Yes
    Quilty Bookmite: Dubrovna has a different personality?
    Adams Rubble:  I don;t want to make too much of this. My concern is with what is happening outside on my own
    Adams Rubble:  Rubble is a bit of a spirit guide yet
    Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)

    Quilty probes the shyness issue and raises the "self" issue

    Quilty Bookmite: How do you feel about other people? Do you feel threatened by them?
    Adams Rubble:  The proof is in the stagnation, I guess
    Adams Rubble:  Oh my, Quilty. Do you mean here or in RL
    Quilty Bookmite: I mean in RL.
    Adams Rubble:  Hmmmm
    Quilty Bookmite: You don't have to answer. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I was just wondering what was at the root of your shyness.
    Adams Rubble:  Well it would be a reason to be uncomfortable ina group
    Quilty Bookmite: Are you worried about how others see you?
    Adams Rubble:  Yes, that may be part of it. More "self" in the mix
    Quilty Bookmite: In my own experience of shyness self was a big part of it.
    Quilty Bookmite: After some time I cared less and less about what others thought.
    Adams Rubble:  I think that may be why I have been surprised about my recent difficulty with conversation in RL
    Quilty Bookmite: You don't care what others think and yet you are still shy around them?
    Adams Rubble:  I am having trouble with the mechanics :)
    Adams Rubble:  I wouldn't say I am not completely not caring, but less so than before
    Adams Rubble:  much less so
    Quilty Bookmite: Of course.
    Quilty Bookmite: A large part of it is how you think but when that changes there is still the habit.
    Quilty Bookmite: Habits built up over a long time are hard to break.
    Adams Rubble:  Yes, I know about habits :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, I think shyness is a habit.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire considers how habits of increased adreniline in the presence of groups can be hard to break...
    Adams Rubble:  Well this is some help-some things to think about
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm. For me, too.

    From shyness as a habit to what can be done about it

    Stim Morane: Has anything helped, Corvi?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I get panicked, sometimes in groups...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: breathing helps, focusing on a person helps.
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, delierately slowing your breathing down.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: practicing doing it helps...but it is hard to do.
    Adams Rubble:  One thing about conversation here, is that one can through out an idea and eventually most people see it
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmm
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: one feels _seen_
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Adams Rubble:  ...and the idea is evaluated on its merits, good or bad
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe you are expecting a lot of the groups you are meeting in RL. :-)
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Or perhaps...you have challenges to overcome to have your ideas taken seriously?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I for instance, am bubbly and blonde in rl.
    Quilty Bookmite: Me too. :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sometimes, serious ideas get a pat on the head and dismissal..it can be very frustrating.
    Quilty Bookmite: Unfortunately that is disguised by my dark sparse hair and my sombre mood.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire pats him on the head.."don't worry your pretty little head about that"
    I just couldn't help myself...that line was too good not to be the title and a good message for me too
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Quilty Bookmite: It is because everyone is working to their own agenda.
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks Corvi. :-)
    Adams Rubble:  Or just being heard
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yes.
    Quilty Bookmite: It also depends on what sort of group it is.
    Quilty Bookmite: And what other factors are involved. Like alcohol. :-)
    Adams Rubble:  Yes, although I was trying to just compare the mechanics. yes alchohol
    Quilty Bookmite: alcohol makes people less aware of the effects of their words.
    Adams Rubble:  and louder
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)

    How is RL conversation different from SL conversation and we immediately slip into how PaB is different

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Talk more about mechanics?
    Stim Morane: ?
    Adams Rubble:  By mechanics I was comparing the methodology
    Adams Rubble:  Here we each type in our thoughts and they appear before us as a group of about 10 lines
    Adams Rubble:  We can look back to recent statements or scroll abck to get something we missed
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
    Adams Rubble:  back
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and in real life?
    Quilty Bookmite: And they can't be drowned out. :-)
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Adams Rubble:  Conversation in RL is afected by how loud people talk. People talk over other people
    Adams Rubble:  we can;t look back
    Adams Rubble:  it is hard even to go back to an earlier thought
    Adams Rubble:  conversation gets lost
    Adams Rubble:  and for some reason, I seem to be more misunderstood there
    Adams Rubble:  one would think it would be the other way around
    Stim Morane: given the factors you mention, maybe not.
    Quilty Bookmite: But most conversations in groups involve lots of lost comments and lots of misunderstanding.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Even here...it depends on the group.
    Adams Rubble:  It is easier to nitice and fix miscommunication here
    Adams Rubble:  notice
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sort of...but sometimes even groups here, talk fast and loud.
    Adams Rubble:  But maybe we are more on the same wavelength so to say?
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.
    Adams Rubble:  Maybe people have to get used to me thinking diofferently?
    Quilty Bookmite: I have interesting conversations with groups of Zen Buddhists. Quite a different dynamic to most RL conversations...
    Adams Rubble:  ah
    Quilty Bookmite: People listen to each other and are not afraid to sit in silence.
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know other groups here...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: some are like this one...some are not.
    Quilty Bookmite: One person can change the dynamic dramatically. I have known it to happen here.
    Adams Rubble:  yes. They have to be fast typers or pasters
    Stim Morane: :)
    Adams Rubble:  fast typing=loud person
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Probably. :-)
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Stim Morane: I'm very tired today, not enough sleep lately. So I will be leaving in a minute.
    Quilty Bookmite: OK Stim.
    Stim Morane: Adams, would you send me the rest of the chat log?
    Adams Rubble:  Ok. bye Stim :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I will also go soon. I'm a bit overworked.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye stim!
    Stim Morane: Sorry to duck out. I'm just at the end of my energy.
    Quilty Bookmite: Look after yourself Stim
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye
    Stim Morane: Thanks! Perhaps another time I can actually mumble something.
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Stim Morane: Bye all!
    Quilty Bookmite: I will be going too. Thank you for an interesting chat. I think a lot more could be said on this subject.
    Adams Rubble:  Yes it could. bye Quilty :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye all
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!

    Stim and Quilty depart leaving Corcuscorva, Adelene and I. Corvi and I continue the discussion of Avatars and their different voices

    Adams Rubble:  Funny, I sort of ran out of things to say about it :)
    Adams Rubble:  It is interesting about your associating voices with avatars. I wonder if I may do that some too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Your avatars..you have more than two?
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Adams Rubble:  Yes, I have three but one I do not use for PaB
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have...about five shapes I wear...each very different, with different personalities in my mind.
    Adams Rubble:  Yes, I do give them personalities although the others have much less than this one
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...this is the best fleshed personality of my bunch, too.
    Adams Rubble:  But in PaB that does not come out intentionally
    Adams Rubble:  But I may react to something diferently I guess
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that I do that very much..react from different areas of my personality depending on the avatar.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It helps, sometimes, create a conversation.
    Adams Rubble:  Yes, exactly!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Adams Rubble:  Ah, I misunderstood you...read it wrong :)
    Adams Rubble:  I read connection instead of conversation :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahahah...that too.
    Adams Rubble:  yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: tell me what _you_ meant by connection?

    I get to talk about my avatar as a Spirit Guide again

    Adams Rubble:  as I said, Rubble is a bit of a spirit guide for me
    Adams Rubble:  Sort of like a shaman putting on a bear skin
    Adams Rubble:  to go into the spirit world
    Adams Rubble:  Rubble takes me a bit out of myself
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm.
    Adams Rubble:  out of my "self" probably but more than that
    Adams Rubble:  I had dreams as Adams and I learned to identify it as a spiritual message
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh, lovely!
    Adams Rubble:  Now I seem to be beyond the need for that but the fact that I stagnated as Dubrovna means something still is going on
    Adams Rubble:  connection
    Adams Rubble:  That is why I misread your senetnce :)
    Adams Rubble:  sentence
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is Dubrovna to you? Besides...stagnation?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is stagnation?
    Adams Rubble:  Maybe the control subject of an experiment
    Adams Rubble:  test the hypothesis :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah.
    Adams Rubble:  Rubble is the active ingredient :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahah.
    Adams Rubble:  You asked two questions
    Adams Rubble:  I have been moving toward identifying the real person, the "I AM" as Avastu calls it
    Adams Rubble:  the inner mind
    Adams Rubble:  the basic person
    Adams Rubble:  I got very close and then everything just stopped
    Adams Rubble:  with Dubrovna
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: interesting.
    Adams Rubble:  yes, very :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Adams Rubble:  I am going to have to go soon
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. I ought to, as well.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have loved talking with you.
    Adams Rubble:  Thank you, you too :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!
    Adams Rubble:  bye Corvi :)
    Adams Rubble:  bye Adelene :)
    Adelene Dawner: cya
    Adams Rubble:  :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!!!
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