2008.09.01 13:00 - Don't worry your pretty little head about that

Stim Morane was the guardian and asked Adams Rubble to comment because I "would provide much more relevant and insightful comments". Little did I guess that Stim seems to have been encouraging me to rethink my question to the group in light of their response. Nothing profound but a little lesson for me, Adams.

Stim arrives finding Quilty and Adams already in the Pavilion and were later joined by Corvuscorva and Adelene for what became a pleasant Monday afternoon discussion

Adams Rubble:  Hi Stim
Stim Morane: Hi Adams and Quilty
Adams Rubble:  Ah, now you changed back
Adams Rubble:  We are having strange things happening Stim
Stim Morane: Your avatars are changing?
Adams Rubble:  My camera is wacky and Quilty looked different
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. He's around.
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Stim.
Stim Morane: Hi Quilty
Stim Morane: Well, perhaps someone is giving things a cleaning
Adams Rubble:  :)
Stim Morane: What shall we talk about today?

I bring up the subject of talking in groups in real life. I never was particularly good at this but have been expecting more from myself after three months in PaB. Now I realize that this really was was my "self" talking. It did not matter whether I was heard or not in these conversations. What really was concerning me is an upcoming meeting. Taking my "self" out of the meeting is the best thing I can do. I can't be responsible for the result of the meeting, only to do the best I can to paraphrase Pema.

Adams Rubble:  I am finding it hard to take what I have learned about talking in groups into Real Life
Quilty Bookmite: What have you learned?
Stim Morane: I find it hard to talk in SL, or even email. Yes, what have you learned?
Adams Rubble:  Well, I have found it easy to interact in PaB
Adams Rubble:  Maybe not learned as much as have been doing
Quilty Bookmite: I think PaB is an exceptional group of people. Most of us are easy to talk to.
Adams Rubble:  Yes that is so
Adams Rubble:  I seem to be misunderstood more in RL
Stim Morane: Strange, isn't it?
Adams Rubble:  Talking volume is an issue too
Adams Rubble:  Sometimes it is hard to be heard
Stim Morane: But I have heard other people say this.
Quilty Bookmite: You are quiet in RL?
Adams Rubble:  Yes, I have been somewhat shy all my life I guess
Adams Rubble:  I have never been comfortable in groups until here

Quilty and Stim relate to my experience

Quilty Bookmite: I was very shy when I was younger.
Stim Morane: Several of my friends have mentioned finding it easier to express themselves in virtual reality than in rl
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. There is less worry abut what others think of you.
Stim Morane: Yes.
Stim Morane: I think several types of pressure are absent or reduced in SL.
Quilty Bookmite: Do you think anything from SL can help in RL in this case?
Stim Morane: I'm not sure. This is not something I'm very practiced in.
Stim Morane: I'm awkward in any form of mediated communication.
Quilty Bookmite: Even here Stim?

Corvuscorva joins the three of us

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Corvi.
Adams Rubble:  Hello Corvi
Stim Morane: Yes, definitely. Just the typing alone is a sticking point for me. I can't even recognize what I'm typing as reflecting me at all.
Stim Morane: Hi Corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all.
Stim Morane: My voice is not in my fingers.
Quilty Bookmite: You feel like you aren't communicating what you want to say?
Stim Morane: yes, that's right.
Stim Morane: But it's OK.
Stim Morane: Anyway, your observation is interesting, and important.
Stim Morane: Perhaps we will think of something you might try.
Adams Rubble:  This is such an interesting subject. And I am the opposite

Corvi notes that she hears the voice of the avatar and typist and notes a difference between mine

Corvuscorva Nightfire: The funny thing is...I can hear voices in the type.
Stim Morane: Say more?
Quilty Bookmite: Do you associate a different voice with each person?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Each person I meet in SL seem sto me to have a voice...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm
Corvuscorva Nightfire: exactly.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Adams has two.
Quilty Bookmite: Is it based on their appearance?
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: some.
Stim Morane: sounds like synesthesia
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I swear I can hear which avatar you have when I read the log.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes.

Adelene is next to make our group five

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I had that sometimes when I was a teenager.
Adams Rubble:  Hello Adelene
Quilty Bookmite: hi Adelene
Adams Rubble:  That is interesting too Corvi
Stim Morane: Plonk.
Adelene Dawner: hi, all
Stim Morane: Hi Adelene!
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Adelene.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: not often...but sometimes I saw loud noises.
Stim Morane: Yes.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: as bursts fo bright light.

Quilty introduces a term I had never heard...synesthesia and we discuss that

Quilty Bookmite: Definitely sounds like synesthesia. :-)
Stim Morane: Well, perhaps many people experience a bit of this.
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or an active imagination?
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Stim Morane: Yes
Quilty Bookmite: It is quite comon although I've never experienced it myself.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Never?
Quilty Bookmite: I think it is sometimes linked with very creative people.
Adelene Dawner: Threedee and I have talked about this a lot... current science suggests that synesthesia is actually pretty nearly universal, it's just conscious awareness of it that's odd.
Quilty Bookmite: No. Not that I can remember.
Stim Morane: I recall you are a Zen practitioner, is that right Quilty?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: interesting.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes Stim.
Stim Morane: It is more likely that you will have an explicit episode of this during an intense Zen retreat.
Stim Morane: That is quite common.
Stim Morane: But very transient.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, I have heard of that happening.
Stim Morane: It occurs most often just as the practitioner is going to sleep, or waking up from sleep.

I had been thinking of Corvi's observation and note that I react differently to my "practice" when using one or the other

Adams Rubble:  Before we go to far I want to say to Corvi that I would not be surprised if I spoke with two voices
Stim Morane: Oh.
Stim Morane: More?
Adams Rubble:  With my different avatars
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. Do you feel different in them?
Adams Rubble:  I stagnated when I used Dubrovna earlier this week
Adams Rubble:  last week
Stim Morane: What changed?
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Adams Rubble:  Everything just seemd to slow down to a halt
Quilty Bookmite: I heard you use the name Dubrovna before but I didn't realise it was one of your avatars.
Adams Rubble:  Yes
Quilty Bookmite: Dubrovna has a different personality?
Adams Rubble:  I don;t want to make too much of this. My concern is with what is happening outside on my own
Adams Rubble:  Rubble is a bit of a spirit guide yet
Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)

Quilty probes the shyness issue and raises the "self" issue

Quilty Bookmite: How do you feel about other people? Do you feel threatened by them?
Adams Rubble:  The proof is in the stagnation, I guess
Adams Rubble:  Oh my, Quilty. Do you mean here or in RL
Quilty Bookmite: I mean in RL.
Adams Rubble:  Hmmmm
Quilty Bookmite: You don't have to answer. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I was just wondering what was at the root of your shyness.
Adams Rubble:  Well it would be a reason to be uncomfortable ina group
Quilty Bookmite: Are you worried about how others see you?
Adams Rubble:  Yes, that may be part of it. More "self" in the mix
Quilty Bookmite: In my own experience of shyness self was a big part of it.
Quilty Bookmite: After some time I cared less and less about what others thought.
Adams Rubble:  I think that may be why I have been surprised about my recent difficulty with conversation in RL
Quilty Bookmite: You don't care what others think and yet you are still shy around them?
Adams Rubble:  I am having trouble with the mechanics :)
Adams Rubble:  I wouldn't say I am not completely not caring, but less so than before
Adams Rubble:  much less so
Quilty Bookmite: Of course.
Quilty Bookmite: A large part of it is how you think but when that changes there is still the habit.
Quilty Bookmite: Habits built up over a long time are hard to break.
Adams Rubble:  Yes, I know about habits :)
Quilty Bookmite: Well, I think shyness is a habit.
Corvuscorva Nightfire considers how habits of increased adreniline in the presence of groups can be hard to break...
Adams Rubble:  Well this is some help-some things to think about
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm. For me, too.

From shyness as a habit to what can be done about it

Stim Morane: Has anything helped, Corvi?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I get panicked, sometimes in groups...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: breathing helps, focusing on a person helps.
Stim Morane: Yes
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, delierately slowing your breathing down.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: practicing doing it helps...but it is hard to do.
Adams Rubble:  One thing about conversation here, is that one can through out an idea and eventually most people see it
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmm
Corvuscorva Nightfire: one feels _seen_
Adams Rubble:  :)
Adams Rubble:  ...and the idea is evaluated on its merits, good or bad
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe you are expecting a lot of the groups you are meeting in RL. :-)
Adams Rubble:  :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Or perhaps...you have challenges to overcome to have your ideas taken seriously?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I for instance, am bubbly and blonde in rl.
Quilty Bookmite: Me too. :-)
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sometimes, serious ideas get a pat on the head and dismissal..it can be very frustrating.
Quilty Bookmite: Unfortunately that is disguised by my dark sparse hair and my sombre mood.
Corvuscorva Nightfire pats him on the head.."don't worry your pretty little head about that"

Adams Rubble:  :)
Quilty Bookmite: It is because everyone is working to their own agenda.
Quilty Bookmite: Thanks Corvi. :-)
Adams Rubble:  Or just being heard
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yes.
Quilty Bookmite: It also depends on what sort of group it is.
Quilty Bookmite: And what other factors are involved. Like alcohol. :-)
Adams Rubble:  Yes, although I was trying to just compare the mechanics. yes alchohol
Quilty Bookmite: alcohol makes people less aware of the effects of their words.
Adams Rubble:  and louder
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)

How is RL conversation different from SL conversation and we immediately slip into how PaB is different

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Talk more about mechanics?
Stim Morane: ?
Adams Rubble:  By mechanics I was comparing the methodology
Adams Rubble:  Here we each type in our thoughts and they appear before us as a group of about 10 lines
Adams Rubble:  We can look back to recent statements or scroll abck to get something we missed
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
Adams Rubble:  back
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and in real life?
Quilty Bookmite: And they can't be drowned out. :-)
Stim Morane: Yes
Adams Rubble:  Conversation in RL is afected by how loud people talk. People talk over other people
Adams Rubble:  we can;t look back
Adams Rubble:  it is hard even to go back to an earlier thought
Adams Rubble:  conversation gets lost
Adams Rubble:  and for some reason, I seem to be more misunderstood there
Adams Rubble:  one would think it would be the other way around
Stim Morane: given the factors you mention, maybe not.
Quilty Bookmite: But most conversations in groups involve lots of lost comments and lots of misunderstanding.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Even here...it depends on the group.
Adams Rubble:  It is easier to nitice and fix miscommunication here
Adams Rubble:  notice
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sort of...but sometimes even groups here, talk fast and loud.
Adams Rubble:  But maybe we are more on the same wavelength so to say?
Quilty Bookmite: I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.
Adams Rubble:  Maybe people have to get used to me thinking diofferently?
Quilty Bookmite: I have interesting conversations with groups of Zen Buddhists. Quite a different dynamic to most RL conversations...
Adams Rubble:  ah
Quilty Bookmite: People listen to each other and are not afraid to sit in silence.
Adams Rubble:  :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know other groups here...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: some are like this one...some are not.
Quilty Bookmite: One person can change the dynamic dramatically. I have known it to happen here.
Adams Rubble:  yes. They have to be fast typers or pasters
Stim Morane: :)
Adams Rubble:  fast typing=loud person
Adams Rubble:  :)
Quilty Bookmite: Probably. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO SHOUT HERE.
Adams Rubble:  :)
Stim Morane: I'm very tired today, not enough sleep lately. So I will be leaving in a minute.
Quilty Bookmite: OK Stim.
Stim Morane: Adams, would you send me the rest of the chat log?
Adams Rubble:  Ok. bye Stim :)
Quilty Bookmite: I will also go soon. I'm a bit overworked.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye stim!
Stim Morane: Sorry to duck out. I'm just at the end of my energy.
Quilty Bookmite: Look after yourself Stim
Quilty Bookmite: Bye
Stim Morane: Thanks! Perhaps another time I can actually mumble something.
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Stim Morane: Bye all!
Quilty Bookmite: I will be going too. Thank you for an interesting chat. I think a lot more could be said on this subject.
Adams Rubble:  Yes it could. bye Quilty :)
Quilty Bookmite: Bye all
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!

Stim and Quilty depart leaving Corcuscorva, Adelene and I. Corvi and I continue the discussion of Avatars and their different voices

Adams Rubble:  Funny, I sort of ran out of things to say about it :)
Adams Rubble:  It is interesting about your associating voices with avatars. I wonder if I may do that some too
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Your avatars..you have more than two?
Adams Rubble:  :)
Adams Rubble:  Yes, I have three but one I do not use for PaB
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have...about five shapes I wear...each very different, with different personalities in my mind.
Adams Rubble:  Yes, I do give them personalities although the others have much less than this one
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...this is the best fleshed personality of my bunch, too.
Adams Rubble:  But in PaB that does not come out intentionally
Adams Rubble:  But I may react to something diferently I guess
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that I do that very much..react from different areas of my personality depending on the avatar.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It helps, sometimes, create a conversation.
Adams Rubble:  Yes, exactly!
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Adams Rubble:  Ah, I misunderstood you...read it wrong :)
Adams Rubble:  I read connection instead of conversation :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahahah...that too.
Adams Rubble:  yes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: tell me what _you_ meant by connection?

I get to talk about my avatar as a Spirit Guide again

Adams Rubble:  as I said, Rubble is a bit of a spirit guide for me
Adams Rubble:  Sort of like a shaman putting on a bear skin
Adams Rubble:  to go into the spirit world
Adams Rubble:  Rubble takes me a bit out of myself
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm.
Adams Rubble:  out of my "self" probably but more than that
Adams Rubble:  I had dreams as Adams and I learned to identify it as a spiritual message
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh, lovely!
Adams Rubble:  Now I seem to be beyond the need for that but the fact that I stagnated as Dubrovna means something still is going on
Adams Rubble:  connection
Adams Rubble:  That is why I misread your senetnce :)
Adams Rubble:  sentence
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is Dubrovna to you? Besides...stagnation?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is stagnation?
Adams Rubble:  Maybe the control subject of an experiment
Adams Rubble:  test the hypothesis :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah.
Adams Rubble:  Rubble is the active ingredient :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahah.
Adams Rubble:  You asked two questions
Adams Rubble:  I have been moving toward identifying the real person, the "I AM" as Avastu calls it
Adams Rubble:  the inner mind
Adams Rubble:  the basic person
Adams Rubble:  I got very close and then everything just stopped
Adams Rubble:  with Dubrovna
Corvuscorva Nightfire: interesting.
Adams Rubble:  yes, very :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Adams Rubble:  I am going to have to go soon
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. I ought to, as well.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have loved talking with you.
Adams Rubble:  Thank you, you too :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!
Adams Rubble:  bye Corvi :)
Adams Rubble:  bye Adelene :)
Adelene Dawner: cya
Adams Rubble:  :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!!!