2008.09.01 19:00 - Sounds Like Sufi Turning.. @@@@@@@ and …

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    It took a while for folks to gather and exchange hellos, at which point The Host (threedee Shepherd said):

    Threedee Shepherd: I “suppose” I am responsible to ask whether anyone has an observation to tell about :D
    Sylectra Darwin: moving is hard?
    Sylectra Darwin: lol
    doug Sosa: yes, as often as possible. went to see a diebencorn exhibit yesterday, rally itense.
    doug Sosa: really
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was pondering a comment I made at a recent meeting about my experience and how it seems to be repeating itself
    stevenaia Michinaga: my moments tend to “move me from an inside observer to an external observer of me… starting with breathing then the motions leading to observation of myself
    doug Sosa: supposed to be “really intense”, not a comment on steve..
    stevenaia Michinaga: I understaood that as another bad typist would, doug
    stevenaia Michinaga: so it;s much like a 9 second movie clip I ma watching, cept it;s me in the clip
    doug Sosa: tell us more..
    Threedee Shepherd: does that view of self seem “detached”
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, I;m there watching, actually sencing the motion of turinng around
    stevenaia Michinaga: in an out-of-body kind of way
    Threedee Shepherd: I don’t recall experiencing that, except in dreams.
    stevenaia Michinaga: the turning is quick and almost dizzying
    Sylectra Darwin: steven, you are havng an out of body experience?
    stevenaia Michinaga: was that a question?
    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure who gets to answer that
    Threedee Shepherd: :)
    doug Sosa: sounds like sufi turning.. @@@@@@@ and …
    stevenaia Michinaga: if there is such a thing, nect time I;ll check out the top of my head to see if it’s observational at that level
    Adelene Dawner: Are you assuming that Being is something external, Steve? Something not-me?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I only see that view on TV when I walk into the convenience store, kind of shinny up there
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, I;m jsut desctibing my experience of perhaps Being seeing Me
    doug Sosa: in whirling i thin that after a hsort while, less than a minute, the wrold restabilizes and we turn almost as if notthere, but the world remains.
    Threedee Shepherd: I have never tried that doug. I think I would fall to the ground before I got there
    stevenaia Michinaga: I know a Sufi couple in town, I should ask
    doug Sosa: there are some simple guidlines, perhaps you already have them inbeing able to imagine this turning you are doing
    stevenaia Michinaga: strange that the turning has a physical sensation but I do not move
    doug Sosa: what kind of sensation, where?
    Threedee Shepherd: I just had the thought that it is interesting that many mystical practices involve physical action such as dancing, or even drumming.
    stevenaia Michinaga: like a quick turn of dizziness
    doug Sosa: do you stop it or let it go on?
    stevenaia Michinaga: it stops as I view back towards me, not sure if I seem me as I am preoccupied with where I am reather then what I am looking at
    Threedee Shepherd: infinite regress? :)
    doug Sosa: lost going on in that.
    stevenaia Michinaga: it;s of a short duration as that it, nine secs are up
    stevenaia Michinaga: or so it seems
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, what do you mean Three
    doug Sosa: what about colors?
    Threedee Shepherd: who is seeing who is seeing who is seeing….
    stevenaia Michinaga: look for Pema response, Being is seeing,
    stevenaia Michinaga: my eyes are usually closed, images are mostly back and grey, moreof moton than what I am looking at, except for the sense of direction…looking out and looking back
    stevenaia Michinaga: black and grey
    doug Sosa: hm, why do you close your eyes?
    Threedee Shepherd: interesting question. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t what about others of you?
    stevenaia Michinaga: my way of starting my moment
    stevenaia Michinaga: that and deep brathing gets me to obseve quicker, which makes no sense,.. closing eyes to obseve
    stevenaia Michinaga: deep breathing
    doug Sosa: i like to start just where i am, not do anything special.
    doug Sosa: i need to say bye :)
    Sylectra Darwin: steven that is great
    Threedee Shepherd: bye doug
    Sylectra Darwin: bfn doug
    stevenaia Michinaga: as I said yesterday, it reminds mw of Tomb Raider when a highly energetic object bursting with energy explodes into calm and tranquility
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am the energetic object, the bursting is the motion that leads me out of “myself”
    Threedee Shepherd: mmmmm
    stevenaia Michinaga: if anyone saw that movie?
    Sylectra Darwin: what precipitates the bursting?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t write these script, jsut live them
    stevenaia Michinaga: but I love the calm on the outside
    A group member named Rowan Masala gave you Purple PaB T-shirt.
    Threedee Shepherd: can you imagine bringing that calm “inside”
    stevenaia Michinaga: well, yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: most of the time
    stevenaia Michinaga: more energy in the moment than I usually experience
    Threedee Shepherd: are you surprised?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, seems like an appropriate affect to releasing yourself
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems it;s not a gentle “step out” for me
    Sylectra Darwin: that doesn’t sound weird; I would think each person would have a slightly different way
    Threedee Shepherd: or even a greatly different way
    stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t look at anyof this as anything more than a change of perspective and going from one observers view to another
    Threedee Shepherd: hi rowan
    Rowan Masala: hi all
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Rowan
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks for the PaB wear
    Sylectra Darwin: rowan thanks for the t shirt!
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Rowan Masala: you’re welcome :)
    Rowan Masala: is good practice for me
    Threedee Shepherd wonders about a t-shirt on a lion and decides to find out privately, later :D
    Rowan Masala grins
    Adelene Dawner: It goes poorly, Three.
    Sylectra Darwin: haha threedee!
    Sylectra Darwin: I have a llama avatar that I should try the t shirt on.
    stevenaia Michinaga: so I am hoping eventuially to spend more time in the observation and the moment rather than getting there
    Threedee Shepherd: 9-se is short
    Threedee Shepherd: *sec is
    Threedee Shepherd: actually the better typo is: 9-sec is shor
    Adelene Dawner laughs. “Too short to type all the letters in!”
    stevenaia Michinaga: hang around me long enough and you will loose youir ability to type coherently
    Adelene Dawner: assuming one has one to begin with, anyway. ^.^
    Threedee Shepherd: we could have a “come as you aren’t party” where you need to not be your usual av…
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think that happens at the PaB fest in october
    Threedee Shepherd: I just notices at that gong, the tenseness of some part of my body, and how that is often the case when I start. I am going to ponder on that
    Threedee Shepherd: noticed
    stevenaia Michinaga: just don;t tell us your ears are ringing
    Sylectra Darwin: threedee, come as you aren’t party! funny.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I usually take a deep breath before the gong even stops
    Sylectra Darwin: hey guys have you ever thought of having a meeting where all we do is have 9-second moments and observe, in chat, what is going on with us?
    Threedee Shepherd: Rowan, we are discussion a topic Steve brought up, about the 9-sec experience sometimes having a looking at yourself from out-of-body, quality
    Threedee Shepherd: Interesting idea Syl, I’m willing.
    Rowan Masala nods
    Rowan Masala: sort of dissociated rather than associated
    Sylectra Darwin: me too
    Rowan Masala: Sylectra, I think that’s a great idea
    Sylectra Darwin: grins
    Sylectra Darwin: what a hoot that would be.
    Threedee Shepherd: Steve, is there more you want to say about the thread you started?
    Threedee Shepherd: How about we try Syl’s idea for the last ten minutes of this hour?
    Threedee Shepherd: Gong
    Adelene Dawner: present… thinking about colors for my av… thinking about thinking… pause… deciding if that ‘counts’… typing… ooh, pretty av hand movement… need to change colors of my typer… wonder what anyone else is typing…
    Threedee Shepherd: eyes open seeing a word in the chat window and all the words around it faade away
    Sylectra Darwin: Joy….and a smile trying to turn up my lips even if I try to relax them.
    stevenaia Michinaga: ………begins to pay attention
    Threedee Shepherd: GONG
    Sylectra Darwin: threedee, what word?
    Threedee Shepherd: wherever my eyes happened to be, Syl
    Adelene Dawner: av… shiny… untranslatable synesthetic color-thought… ‘can’t translate that’… mild annoyance… typing… hear someone else typing…
    stevenaia Michinaga: deep breathign, deep space inside a hollow shell of myself, a warming blackness surrounds me
    Sylectra Darwin: wow, I find it interesting that some of us kept our eyes on the chat window and some of us closed our eyes.
    Threedee Shepherd: eyes defocus and all depths merge like an abstract Picasso painting
    Sylectra Darwin: I had no visual imagery. Maybe just a color…pink.
    Threedee Shepherd: Ade, you seem to be observing right here right now?
    Adelene Dawner: Yup.
    Adelene Dawner: That’s where I am, after all.
    Sylectra Darwin: grin
    Sylectra Darwin: some of us interpret SL to be right here and some RL.
    Sylectra Darwin: very interesting.
    Threedee Shepherd: I wonder, how often people experience the 9-sec as NOW, but not necessarily the physical HERE?
    Threedee Shepherd: either in RL or SL not here?
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if HERE and NOW need to be related
    stevenaia Michinaga: that do, but not really for me
    Adelene Dawner: imagining some other here and now happens in *this* here and now, really.
    stevenaia Michinaga: not then I do the Nines
    Sylectra Darwin: thanks all, I have to sign off for tonight.
    Sylectra Darwin: Really interesting discussion!
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Sylectra
    Threedee Shepherd: g’night Syl
    Rowan Masala: night Sylectra
    Adelene Dawner: ‘night Syl
    Threedee Shepherd: Interesting idea Steve, NOW *is*, here is more of an invention
    Adelene Dawner: ‘here’ appears to be slightly more voluntary than ‘now’ does.
    Adelene Dawner: (though ‘appears to be’ is a very relevant concept for some interpretations of that statement)
    Threedee Shepherd: In a small room here has a different meaning than afloat in the middle of the ocean (in a lifevest). Yet Now is always just now
    Adelene Dawner: …I’m not following you, Three.
    Threedee Shepherd: here has a spatial sensation that varies with situation. Now just is.
    Jax’s free AO: Could not find animation ‘Preen’
    Adelene Dawner: …if you say so…
    Threedee Shepherd: for me, I don’t know about others
    Jax’s free AO: Could not find animation ‘Preen’.
    Adelene Dawner: My sense of local space is fairly consistent - physical body plus a few feet of personal space. My sense of ‘now’ is moderately consistent, but does vary with my working memory.
    Threedee Shepherd: steve, your being “aia” I am interested on your sense of “here”
    stevenaia Michinaga: Interesting there is no here when I am focusing, there is just in me and out me
    Jax’s free AO: Could not find animation ‘Preen’
    Adelene Dawner thinks some and hmms. “Three, your idea of variable sense of ‘here’ does remind me of something. If I’m in a very familiar place and absolutely alone, my personal space does change to encompas the entirety of the room I’m in. That’s a rare situation for me to be in, though.”
    Threedee Shepherd: Ade, I “suspect” I am describing more than personal space, sort of place in the world space
    stevenaia Michinaga: a start and an end to my short journey
    Adelene Dawner: Yeah, that does sound related. Everyplace outside of my personal space is… theoretical, I guess. Not entirely real, even if I can see it, in some sense.
    Threedee Shepherd: When I go to an unfamiliar city I initially do not have a sense of “being here” that is comfortable
    Adelene Dawner: If I’m interpreting what you’re saying correctly, that’s my normal state of affairs… including right now.
    Threedee Shepherd: so, when you do have a comfortable sense of here, the experience is notable?
    Adelene Dawner: Yup.
    Adelene Dawner: And fairly rare - an hour a week at best.
    Threedee Shepherd: pretty much the reverse of my experience.
    Adelene Dawner shrugs.
    Threedee Shepherd: Simply noting, not evaluating :)
    Adelene Dawner: yup.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must leave, see you all soon
    Threedee Shepherd: g’night Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: night
    Rowan Masala: night Steven
    Rowan Masala: goodnight, all
    Threedee Shepherd: goodnight all. The LOG is closed

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