2008.09.06 07:00 - Is Peace and Calm Just Another Emotional State?

Adams Rubble was the guardian and the comments are 100% Rubble

Gaya arrived a few seconds before me and then we were joined by Steve. For most of the session it was Gaya, Steve and I until Pia arrived at the end

Gaya Ethaniel: Hi Adams
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: HI Gaya :)
Adams Rubble: namaste
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: Hey Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: Morning

Gaya began the discussion reporting some new developments in her practice

Gaya Ethaniel: I've realised something important today about my practice in particular about PaB exercises
Adams Rubble: yes?
Gaya Ethaniel: Since I began to experience Being, I 'escape' into that experience as much as possible during the waking hours. This led me to unconsciously suppress my emotions and thoughts as I stopped observing them during meditations.
Gaya Ethaniel: Few years ago I did same thing but with meditation. 'Escaping' into calm state of mind which let me to feel flat/numb for many years
Adams Rubble is feeling a bit flat right now
Gaya Ethaniel: I meditated for a long time three times already this morning and managed to see emerging feelings/thoughts. I'm content now though it was uncomfortable to see thoughts/emotions.
Gaya Ethaniel: Adams, how do you feel? What do you mean?
Adams Rubble: Sorry to interrupt. So it is better for you not to see the thoughts and emotions?
Gaya Ethaniel: No... it's a bad idea for me not to see them as they are being suppressed. Unless they are being observed and dropped, they don't go anywhere. That's what I meant by 'escaping'
Adams Rubble: Ah yes

I had felt something about what Gaya was experiencing this week but found it was longer term for Gaya

Adams Rubble: I am in a period of calm which may be good since I am learning to deal with RL issues in a new way but I miss the excitement
Adams Rubble: And I am not seeing thoughts right now
stevenaia Michinaga: so your emotions are distactions? not a friendly bubble that's part of you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Calm isn't same as feeling blank Adams. Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant?
Adams Rubble: Maybe, sorry
Adams Rubble: I might be a little blank. I am not feeling the excitement I had been feeling
Gaya Ethaniel: Being calm and using meditation to feel calm only without observing/dropping thoughts/emotions led me to have a long period of feeling numb.
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps you are experiencing something similar to me Adams...
Adams Rubble: It seems I may be
stevenaia Michinaga: Adams, are you speaking of missing the "roller coaster" of emotional excitment
Gaya Ethaniel ponders...
stevenaia Michinaga: what you miss?
Adams Rubble: Sort of the excitement of the chase, Steve :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Just to clarify, I couldn't feel even joy during the numb period
Adams Rubble: Yes Gaya. I am working on an answer to your question Steve
Gaya Ethaniel: This time around, I managed to stop after about a month <sigh of relief>
Adams Rubble: It may be that I have switched my focus
Adams Rubble: That is great Gaya. That sounds like a wonderful realization
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes but last time, it lasted almost 5 years Adams
Adams Rubble: I have been a bit wooried all summer that when fall came I would slip back to my old self
Adams Rubble: So I am concentrating on my reactions to the rush of events around me

I knew Steve was interested because he had been asking questions along these lines the night before

stevenaia Michinaga: I am just trying to get a sense of your perspective from distracting emotions to no emotions (flat) to see where I might be relatvie to that
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah good point stevenaia
Adams Rubble: And maybe I am forcing a period of calm that has affected my seeing Being
stevenaia Michinaga: My seeing Beings tend to be devoid of emotions unless peace and calm are also emotional states
Adams Rubble: As Doug says, sometimes we see more when we are agitated and our thoughts are in motion
stevenaia Michinaga: but that follows my non-seeing Being states
Adams Rubble: For me, it a little of both
Gaya Ethaniel nods 'yes 'I' offers many useful lessons'

Gaya explains more about her practice

Gaya Ethaniel: Could you expand on that stevenaia?
stevenaia Michinaga: which part
stevenaia Michinaga: lack of emotion vs peace and calm?
Gaya Ethaniel: Both... could you describe in a bit more details of your experience of Being?
stevenaia Michinaga: it seems to be as if I were an observer and what washes over me of comfort in the observation, non-judgemetn is how I view things most of the time, that comes with me when I see Being
stevenaia Michinaga: is, not of
Gaya Ethaniel ponders...
stevenaia Michinaga: so I sit here looking at your group tag, Gaya, "Emotional Wreck", and ponders what that means as it is more rare if ever a place that exists within me... taking stock of our differing perspectives
stevenaia Michinaga: yet, I know some highly emotional an passionate people who are so much more intuitive than I and wonders what I am missing
Gaya Ethaniel: It's a reminder that I still have deep emotions to deal with. Seems that I still find it uncomfortable in dealing with them and often avoid doing so. I cannot be wrecked but it is there to stop myself going into denial
Gaya Ethaniel: Everyone is different and various temperament. Nothing missing stevenaia. You are perfect as you are.
stevenaia Michinaga: as I am is also ever changing, I would hope
Adams Rubble smiles at the voice of Avastu coming through Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes change is the only thing we can count on. Only thing.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles at Adams
Adams Rubble: Yes!
Gaya Ethaniel: With every step backwards, I recite how I trust the process and Being. And I am the best teacher to myself.
Gaya Ethaniel: This 'I'... offers a lot of lessons if only taken noticed
Gaya Ethaniel: Your experience above sounds much like YS. Have you also experienced BS stevenaia? If yes, could you tell us a little in details?

YSBS

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, i believe so, and it runs from BS (see correction below) as in interal observation which is highly energetic to BS which is very calm and external to me, and in between there is locationa movement from within to outside a view of myself
stevenaia Michinaga: .... I should make a movie of this
stevenaia Michinaga: hard to explain
Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'would be interesting pls do so'
stevenaia Michinaga: I may know an animator who has pleanty of time on her hands..laughs
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... you typed BS twice above stevenaia. Would one of them be YS?
stevenaia Michinaga: but the incremental 9 seconds I give will hopefulle turn to more detail in what is seen over time
stevenaia Michinaga: Beeing Seeing?
stevenaia Michinaga: looking back
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes - it runds from BS as in interal observation which is highly energetic to BS which is very pcalm and external to me, and in between there is locationa movement from within to outside a view of myself
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the first BS is a YS
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah ok
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks, as you can see, I rarely proofread what I type..smile
Adams Rubble: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: or spellcheck
Gaya Ethaniel: So in both, you experience 'a state of mind', ie energetic or calm. Do you see these as emotional states?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: I just read it back later and laugh quite a bit
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

And is the peace and calm connected to emotions?

stevenaia Michinaga: that's what I was asking earlier, is peace and calm just another emotional state
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes...
Adams Rubble: I think many emotions are clues to the "self". Just like watching our toughts, we can watch our emotions
Gaya Ethaniel: Thought I experienced BS but now looking back they have been YS or ES hence attachment to the experience & consequent 'escaping'
stevenaia Michinaga: and is observing is also an emotional state
stevenaia Michinaga: *it
Adams Rubble: I would want to ask why I am I feeling emotion about my observations
Gaya Ethaniel: Because calm, joyful and peaceful emotions experienced during was in fact subjective so I was always there... my experiences were not BS. I see this now
Gaya Ethaniel: What kind of emotions stevenaia?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Adams
stevenaia Michinaga: observing peace and calm
Gaya Ethaniel: Could be that is YB?
Gaya Ethaniel: YS*
Adams Rubble: and you are a bit worried that you only see peace and calm
stevenaia Michinaga: or serenity, as someone nicely put it once
Gaya Ethaniel: I haven't been able to see anything other than peace, calm or serenity during YS/ES
Gaya Ethaniel: Only during my regular meditations, I was able to see other emotions/thoughts
stevenaia Michinaga: no, not worried at all, just pondering what it is, non-judgement pleasent place or emotional state
stevenaia Michinaga: or both
Adams Rubble: I think I have a similar experience Gaya but the YS/BS has helped me see things in a larger perspective away from my self. The other exercises have been better for self discovery
Gaya Ethaniel: For me that's same as what I experience in meditations, the initial stage of feeling calm stevenaia
Adams Rubble: especially the one where one watches the thoughts
Gaya Ethaniel: Care to say more Adams?
Adams Rubble: It is an exercise from the Time, Pace and Time book that Steven Tiner wrote or helped write
Adams Rubble: Chapter 11
Adams Rubble: In it one watches the thoughts and tries to figure out where the come from
Adams Rubble: and where they go
Adams Rubble: One also can watch the spaces between thoughts
Adams Rubble: It has been very powerful for me in conjunction with the other exercises
Adams Rubble: I could see my "self" playing games, hiding things
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah, same as my formal meditations. Great so more or less back on the right track now. Combine formal meditations with PaB exercises <smile>
Adams Rubble: Time, Space and Time*

Wrong again, Adams. The book is Time, Space and Knowledge by Tarthang Tulku.

Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I remember this book from Pema a while ago
Adams Rubble: I have the title all wrong
Gaya Ethaniel smiles 'ts ok, I've heard of the book'
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Niasaragdata talks about the person who was there at birth and will be there at death

That is Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, in the book, I Am That

Adams Rubble: I think I have found seen that person
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: maybe found and seen
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble: but not am ET
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Adams Rubble: BUT NOT am YET
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah
Adams Rubble: Not ET either
Adams Rubble: hehe
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Gaya Ethaniel: Interesting typo Adams

Gaya asks for my opinion of what Steve is feeling and I dodge the question by telling of some of my own experience

Gaya Ethaniel: So what are your feelings about stevenaia's question then Adams?
Gaya Ethaniel: [7:37] stevenaia Michinaga: no, not worried at all, jsut pondering what it is, non-judgement pleasent place or emotional state [7:37] stevenaia Michinaga: or both
Gaya Ethaniel: [7:38] Adams Rubble: For me that's same as what I experience in meditations, the initial stage of feeling calm stevenaia
Adams Rubble: I can only tell what I have experienced right now. I am not wise enough, not have had enough experience, to understand what oters are experiencing
Adams Rubble: others, not otters
Adams Rubble: But is good to share our expereinces
Gaya Ethaniel: It doesn't sound like Being to me though
Gaya Ethaniel: In the beginning of my PaB, I used to think it was
Adams Rubble: For me, equating Being with God has helped because I had strong experiences as a youth
Adams Rubble: Then I felt God in me I felt great power
Adams Rubble: I feel the same when I connect with Being
Adams Rubble: It takes me out of myself
stevenaia Michinaga: isn't that what the repub VP feels? sorry, to much politics lately
Adams Rubble: Politics is much on the minds of we Americans right now

Uh Oh. Politics. It has been a rough week in my country; there are so many angry people who think the worst of each other. When I awoke this morning, I had an urge to write what I think about the whole thing in my blog but decided it would be a distraction that I would regret later

Gaya Ethaniel: What's republic VP?
Adams Rubble: But please do not equate me with the narrow views of the VP
Gaya Ethaniel is somewhat ignorant of US politics
stevenaia Michinaga: republican Vice President candiate
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah
Adams Rubble: Sarah Palin, the Republican candidtae for Vice President of the US
stevenaia Michinaga: let's ignore that comment
Gaya Ethaniel: The woman... much talked about atm in media
Adams Rubble: Thanks Steve. I could have to get angry. hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: So what did you mean by the question then stevenaia? Still not sure here
Adams Rubble: I rode my bike this morning to forget about politics and work
stevenaia Michinaga: my question?
Adams Rubble: The VP feels the power of her God
Adams Rubble: Not my God
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah ok
Gaya Ethaniel: Doesn't sound like Adams' god no
Adams Rubble: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, she is a Penticostal
Adams Rubble: well, was pentecostal to be fair. Too much misiformation being bandied about
Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... penticostal?
stevenaia Michinaga: an evangelical christian religion, if I am correct
Adams Rubble: Yes Steve
Gaya Ethaniel: Ah ok
Gaya Ethaniel: ty
Adams Rubble: She likes to shoot moose
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... not great that
Adams Rubble is goping to need another bike ride
Adams Rubble: going
stevenaia Michinaga: well, there is a Rl cole slaw production disaster in the kichen that I must clean up
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

Pia arrived as Steve was leaving

Adams Rubble: Good to talk Steve
Adams Rubble: Hi Pia :)
stevenaia Michinaga: Thanks, see you soon
Gaya Ethaniel: Nice talking to you stevenaia. Have a good rest of the weekend.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: bye :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pia, bye Pia
Pia Iger: Hi I am too late, just in time to clean table?
Adams Rubble: hehe
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pia Iger: My pc could not start windows, have to restore the system.
Adams Rubble is in no hurry, just waiting for the storm
Adams Rubble: Oh my Pia
Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... sorry to hear that
Gaya Ethaniel can stay a bit longer
Adams Rubble: Are you guardian Gaya?
Pia Iger: are you here all the time? Adams. Maybe I can swap with you, and do tomorrow 7am?
Pia Iger: Pia is goc
Adams Rubble: Oh you are guardian Pia
Gaya Ethaniel: Hm... thought it's your session Adams?
Adams Rubble: Well I don;t mind posting it. If you would like to do tomorrow, that's fine Pia
Pia Iger: ok. I will do tomorrow. thanks. Adams.
Adams Rubble: Thanks Pia
Adams Rubble: I have been away from PaB and it is just good to be back
Adams Rubble: away all wek
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble: week
Adams Rubble: :)
Pia Iger: school started?
Adams Rubble: Yes, with a big bang!
Pia Iger: sounds exciting:-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pia Iger: Gaya, is this a new AV? very nice.

Pia, Gaya and I discussed outfits for a bit then went off to Pia's place for more friendly chat. Wondering slowly up the coast, we finally arrived at Riddle's house. Gaya then left and Pia continued discussion about the wonders PaB and the help we have given each other along the way, while enjoying Riddle's campfire and Storm's waves crashing against the lighhouse rocks. Thanks for the hospitality Riddle! Ah, life in PaB is very good