2008.09.11 19:00 - Why ARE we HERE

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    Pia Iger was the guardian, and she post the main part of the conversation.

    It took a while for 6-7 guardains to greet each other and settle down. Doug started with his observation. The whole conversation would circle around the difference between RL and SL meetings.

    doug Sosa: On Monday i was at a symposium and looked at the ten panelists sitting in front, and for the first time i looked at them as though they were avatars..
    Adams Rubble: :)
    doug Sosa: and i realized, what i think you all know before me, that, of course, and i knew i couldn't really read them either.
    doug Sosa: They all have such masks on.
    doug Sosa: It was actually comforting., because i knew that behind each one there was a more real person, but it wouldn't be the person I was seeing..
    Adams Rubble: interesting thought Doug
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Gen ^.^
    Adams Rubble: Hello Gen :)
    doug Sosa: hi :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi All!
    Pia Iger: Hi, there,
    Threedee Shepherd: hi
    Pia Iger: I just came from a RL meeting, too,
    Pia Iger: similar discussion as here,
    Threedee Shepherd: Doug, in a given moment, how can someone be a less or "a more real person"?
    Pia Iger: I know many people for a few years,
    Pia Iger: but I feel the meeting and discussion quite similar to here
    Pia Iger: RL did not really add too much on the discussion itself.
    doug Sosa: yes, you can hang me on that one. Old speak, but it still feels right. I mean the person I would get to know behind the mask if we were to talk about politics, sex, childhood, money..
    Adelene Dawner: There's a concept Three and I have talked about that seems relevant here - 'surface self' and 'deep self'.
    Pia Iger: now I feel it can easily just see through or bypass the mask
    doug Sosa: of course all illusion but some strawberries you can taste and others you can't.
    Threedee Shepherd: So, doug, are you suggesting that some *topics* are more real than others?
    doug Sosa: yes.
    Threedee Shepherd: Can you say more?
    doug Sosa: I am a recidivist.
    doug Sosa: real strawberries and digital ones.
    Threedee Shepherd: Meetings often serve two functions--social (re)-connection, which is the main unspoken topic--and the apparent agendas.
    doug Sosa: i think there is a third... the person that can be touched by more sincere conversation..
    Threedee Shepherd: yes
    Threedee Shepherd: sounds like RL is being further divided into work-life and non-work-life. If so, both can be a basis for right-action, I think.
    doug Sosa: to me the work is the deeper conversation.
    Threedee Shepherd: deeper in what sense
    doug Sosa: not "the" work, just work.
    Pia Iger: not clear to me, can you say more, doug?
    doug Sosa: for me, my work is trying to have the deeper conversation. It's what i get paid for.
    Pia Iger: now I understand what you meant
    doug Sosa: :)
    doug Sosa: how did we get here, where are we, and what should we do?
    Pia Iger: I felt I need to converse with myself of those questions in daily life ,too.
    Pia Iger: They are not just ‘work' issues.

    Adams quitted for the night first. Then Doug's computer was disconnected for a minute, when 3D asked him a question.

    Adams Rubble: Good night all. Good to see you all :)
    doug Sosa: bye..
    doug Sosa: to Adams
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Adams
    Threedee Shepherd: Doug, not being flippant, even knowing reasonable answers to those questions, it seems that so little *can* be done.
    Pia Iger thinking how to understand: in the absolute sense, nothing needs to be done.
    Adelene Dawner: And in the relative sense, 'doing' is so ineffective, why bother?
    Threedee Shepherd: compassion prevails
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pia Iger: in the relative sense, a lot needs to be done, housework, office work, and self-maintenance.
    doug Sosa: forgot to plug in my computer..
    Pia Iger: wb, doug. 3D was reverting to your ' what should we do?', with 'it seems that so little *can* be done."
    doug Sosa: hmm?
    Pia Iger: 3D, do you want to explain your reply to Doug.
    doug Sosa: ah, i don't think so. First, what do you want to do?
    Threedee Shepherd: I was pondering the agony of knowing how little one person can accomplish when considering broad, global needs. I guess think globally, act locally is a good answer.

    Doug gave a real life example of 'something can be done', but I was asked to take it off the log.

    After a long silence, 3D started another topic.

    Threedee Shepherd: OK. I will try something: Why ARE we HERE, each of us?
    Pia Iger: "HERE" is RL or SL?
    doug Sosa: I love you all. learning a lot. able to apply it.
    Threedee Shepherd: SL PaB
    Adelene Dawner: Habit/Threedee's here.
    Pia Iger: anyway, Doug said it very well.
    Threedee Shepherd: It is the only place I know where I can seriously discuss and think deeply about the *mystery* on an ongoing basis
    Pia Iger: the *mystery* -- life itself?
    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
    genesis Zhangsun: Yes I would agree I am here to engage with the mystery
    genesis Zhangsun: and all of you lovely folks
    Pia Iger: I am lucky to have found a similar group in RL.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes very lucky
    Threedee Shepherd: ye, in RL, you ARE lucky
    Pia Iger: but here is wonderful, too, nonetheless,
    Pia Iger: even more colorful.
    Pia Iger: RL has no lion sitting next to me
    Threedee Shepherd: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: I think there are maybe only handful of people I can talk to about this stuff in RL and most of them don't live near me
    doug Sosa: and in some way easier, easier to hide when necessary, and easier of others to hide when they need to.
    doug Sosa: hid'hide
    Pia Iger: Doug, you mean RL easier to hide?
    doug Sosa: no, here in sl
    doug Sosa: I mean, i can sit here calmly in SL while passing up and down, making an espresso, watching the reports on IKE...
    doug Sosa: did i reveal too much?

    Solo joined us. We continued the RL/SL comparison.

    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Solobill!
    Solobill Laville: Hey, everyone
    Pia Iger: both in RL and SL , we have choices of how much to hide ourselves.
    genesis Zhangsun: Perhaps it’s because we hide ourselves in RL that we don't have these types of conversations
    Adelene Dawner: agreed
    Pia Iger: and RL has too much noise, distraction.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes appearances are distracting
    genesis Zhangsun: hiding is distracting
    Threedee Shepherd: I will "do an experiment" tomorrow. We are having a group over for dinner who have all known each other a long time and see each other regularly, in various permutations. I will *listen* more closely to what is (and perhaps is not) talked about.
    Pia Iger: today in my RL meeting, I also found myself consciously observe and compare them with SL meetings.
    Solobill Laville: And how do they compare, Pia?
    Pia Iger: essentially, they are the same. I have to say.
    doug Sosa: Circle back to the beginning this evening -- that the more we know the more RL looks more like SL than we expected..
    Pia Iger: I mean the impression that left in my mind is similar.
    Pia Iger: the difference is really superficial.
    doug Sosa: and the similarity is profound.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I agree Doug when u can get past appearances
    doug Sosa: well, part of the profound similarity is that it is no easier in RL than in SL. that's the shock for me.
    Pia Iger: conversation is not easier in RL, even you are facing a person in real flesh.
    Pia Iger: there is lot of barrier.
    doug Sosa: in rl people are more defensive and that causes pain to everyone. here the person "may be defensive, but we don't see it.
    Pia Iger: here we don't see a lot, which actually make interaction smoother, easier.

    At this time, a new visitor came in, but I did not get a chance to ask for pemission of quoting her. So that part was erased.

    Afterwards, time for all to call it a day.

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