2008.10.07 13:00 - Purposeful Being

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     The Guardian this session was Genesis Zhangsun the comments below are hers.

    I arrived into SL quite late a result of a RL meeting for Kira and SL forced downloading.

    genesis Zhangsun: HI everyone
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry I am late
    Solobill Laville: Hey, GEn
    Wol Euler: hello gen
    Avastu Maruti: love to you my friend
    Wol Euler: we haven't started yet.
    You: love to you to Avastu :)
    Wol Euler: bye avastu, take care.
    Gaya Ethaniel: thank you all and have a good day
    Wol Euler: bye gaya.
    Wol Euler: oh, sorry avastu, I misread taht :-)
    Avastu Maruti smiles
    Solobill Laville: You seem busy these days, Gen :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Very busy
    genesis Zhangsun: meeting with someone right now for Kira
    genesis Zhangsun: so I actually won't be able to stay for too long
    Wol Euler: :-)
    Solobill Laville: ah, too bad
    genesis Zhangsun: what the heck was going on?
    Wol Euler: running repairs, you might say.
    Solobill Laville: RL
    Wol Euler: very rael
    genesis Zhangsun: hmmm... yes SL drama
    genesis Zhangsun: fascinating
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
    Solobill Laville: Maybe we can start the PaB session...now
    You: ok lets start!
    Solobill Laville: moving forward from ...now...!
    Solobill Laville: :)

    A newcomer came to join us and asked to remain anonymous she will be referred to as "X" from here on.

    Solobill Laville: Hi "X"!
    Anonymous: Hello :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi "X"
    Anonymous: Hi
    Anonymous: May I come in ?
    Anonymous: Thank you.
    Solobill Laville: Please join us!
    genesis Zhangsun: Sure you are welcome
    Solobill Laville: hmmm...I'm laggy too Adelene.
    Solobill Laville pokes Gen
    Adelene Dawner: I heard in group chat that the SL servers are dodgy today. :P That's probably it.
    Solobill Laville: Ah
    Wol Euler nods , there was just a warning not to rezz no-copy objects.
    Solobill Laville: oh, missed that
    Solobill Laville thinks he loses more cool stuff that way...
    Wol Euler: anyway, I must step out for a few minutes. Hopefully I'll be back before the end.
    Adelene Dawner: cya wol
    Wol Euler: bye for now
    Solobill Laville: ok, see ya Wol
    Solobill Laville: "X", have you been here before?
    Anonymous: Not to this meeting no.
    Anonymous: I visited the sim the other day.
    Solobill Laville: ah, Ok
    Solobill Laville: There are quite a few cool places around these parts ;)
    Anonymous: :)
    Adelene Dawner: One of these months I should get a guardian plot here and do something interesting with it.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Solobill Laville: The folks here meet every so often and discuss, what it real, I'd guess from an experiential viewpoint...
    Solobill Laville: *what is real* I mean to say
    Anonymous: That's interesting
    Anonymous: Has anyone decided what is
    Solobill Laville: Gen, do you have one of them fancy new notecards??
    Adelene Dawner thinks Avastu has ^.-
    Avastu Maruti blinks
    Solobill Laville: Anyway, we all come from our own perspectives and share our experiences
    Solobill Laville: There are also recommended practices, like 9-sec meditations, etc. on our wiki site
    Solobill Laville: Where we also post chat logs
    Solobill Laville: Is it OK to include you on the chat log?
    Anonymous: Me ?
    Solobill Laville: Just as we post the discussion, that's all
    Anonymous: oh - I'll listen if its going public !
    Solobill Laville: the entire discussion I mean
    Solobill Laville smiles
    Solobill Laville: listening is absolutely fine!
    Anonymous: pity - I would have liked to have joined in.
    Anonymous: but I understand.
    Adelene Dawner: We can also anonimize your name, if that'll make you more comfortable.
    Anonymous: ok.
    Anonymous: Thank you.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville blinks and smiles
    Adelene Dawner: hm?
    Solobill Laville: Oh, just wondering if there was, you know, any topic to discuss...

    The conversation turns to the topic of "purpose" and "Purpose" this was at least the way that I interpreted it.  A conversation of purpose in the relative and Purpose in the absolute.

    Adelene Dawner: We've been hot on intentional/purposeful living recently...
    Solobill Laville: ah!
    Solobill Laville: I read your post on that Adelene :)
    Adelene Dawner: I think the last unresolved question, from this morning, was "do we choose our purpose"... there've been several discussions in the last few days :)
    Solobill Laville: yeah, good one
    Solobill Laville: What are your thoughts?
    Anonymous: its easy to drift.
    Solobill Laville: purposeless?
    Anonymous: Not realising you have a choice.
    Solobill Laville: So, "X", is it to you a question of "personal empowerment" perhaps?
    Anonymous: Depends what you mean by empowerment....
    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville: What would you mean by it?
    Anonymous: I ythink its more a question of being awake to the situation.
    Adelene Dawner: hm... Yes, life involves choices... so given the choice of chosing to do X or Y, how do you decide? Having a purpose is part of the answer to that.
    Anonymous: empowerment to me suggests somebody givgong you the possibility.
    Anonymous: rather than looking for it yourself.
    Solobill Laville: I agree Adelene
    Solobill Laville: Oh, I see your point "X"
    Solobill Laville: I was thinking of "empowering" yourself to self-select purpose, I guess
    Solobill Laville: Adelene, how is purpose not chosen at all?
    Adelene Dawner finds words.

    I could appreciate this I think Adelene was trying to find words to describe Big "P" purpose which is like trying to explain the source of all things, emptiness, God, Being whatever framework one chooses to talk about this.

    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville sincerely appreciates Adelene's perspective
    Adelene Dawner: My perspective is that the purpose exists prior to the choices that show it. The choice to donate to starving children in Africa or a local homeless shelter is a choice that *uses* one's purpose. But the purpose exists before that choice comes up.
    Anonymous: thank you

    I realize that Solobill had asked me to distribute a note card so I happily pulled out the one Pia had made for us.

    genesis Zhangsun: sorry little late on the notecard
    Solobill Laville: (can I have one too, Gen?)
    Anonymous: Thank you.
    Adelene Dawner: And even if you sit down and say "I'm going to choose my life's purpose and write it on theis piece of paper"... the purpose exists prior to *that* choice, too. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to make that choice at all.
    Solobill Laville: So, Adelene, it is almost as if the situation and choice form a symbiotic relationship

    Here I see Solo tring to get at the relationship between "Purpose" in the sense of Being's "purpose" if it could have one ;)

    Anonymous: I don't uinderstand that.
    Adelene Dawner: How so, "X"?
    Solobill Laville: my comment?
    Anonymous: Is it not true that the circumstances help to create possioble choices.
    Anonymous: We need to define what we mean by purpose.
    Solobill Laville: That is always a great place to start :)
    Anonymous: i thought you were talking about reasons and motivation.
    Adelene Dawner: agreed, Solo. A purpose that can't be worked woked toward will naturally evolve into on the can.
    Adelene Dawner: *one that
    Adelene Dawner: :P
    Anonymous: Do you mean goal ?
    Solobill Laville: I think reasons and motivation are part of it
    Anonymous: purpose = goal ?
    Anonymous: that's what we are talking about.
    Adelene Dawner: Kind of. Not really.
    Anonymous: purpose is the wring word surely.
    Solobill Laville: Hmmm...it should be in the context or purposeful living
    Adelene Dawner: A goal is something that can be actually achieved... a purpose, not so much.
    Adelene Dawner: A book I once read put it this way:
    Anonymous: Whats your purpose - whats the point you mean ?
    Solobill Laville: doesn't necessarily have to be goal-oriented
    Anonymous: No its diosen't
    Anonymous: what is the question ?
    Adelene Dawner: A purpose is like 'go West'. A goal could be 'get to California' or 'get to Japan' or 'get to Russia'. You can achieve all the goals you want, and make lots of progress, but there's always more West to travel.

    I interpret this as the way we can understand "Purpose" as "purpose."

    Anonymous: I don't understand that.. honestly.
    Anonymous: A purpose - to me means a reason for
    Anonymous: a reason for doing something.
    Solobill Laville: OK, what would it mean to live purposefully?
    Anonymous: Is that what we are talking about ?
    Solobill Laville: I think so, would you agree Adelene?
    Adelene Dawner: Yes, "X", a purpose is a reason-for. So if my purpose was to travel west, that'd be a reason for me to go to California, which is west of here.
    Anonymous: i see.
    Anonymous: To me this would be a value judgement...
    Solobill Laville: Good point, and ultimately it would be

    To me 'X" begins to get at how "Purpose" is translated to "purpose" through individual experience, existence.

    Anonymous: what is purposeful to somebody is not to somebody else becuase we all have differernt experiences.
    Solobill Laville: yup
    Anonymous: There is no absolute purpsoefullness in my mind.
    Solobill Laville: So, it part of living purposefully to me is to be nicer to the environment
    Anonymous: me too :)
    Solobill Laville: That will affect my decisions
    Adelene Dawner: Indeed, "X" - though I was thinking about that earlier and I think that many of the relative purposefulnesses are similar in fundamental ways - but there are relative, individual purposes.
    Solobill Laville: I would choose "X" (hybrid car) over "Y" (Hummer H2)
    Solobill Laville: So do we tie that in to what you were saying Adeline, about them being somehow inter-related, but, hmmm, "before purpose"?
    Solobill Laville: (Bad way to put it...)
    Adelene Dawner: No, purpose is before goals and choices.
    Adelene Dawner: I don't know what's before purpose.

    Nice one Adelene...I don't know either.  That is the million dollar question.

    Anonymous: thats true.
    Anonymous: No purpose :)
    Solobill Laville smiles
    Anonymous: no circumstances that help you to create one.
    Adelene Dawner: I do kind of wonder if there is *a* purpose, that manifests in many different ways depending on a person's formative experiences.
    Anonymous: yes - there must be
    Adelene Dawner: Been trying to put words to that purpose, too.
    Solobill Laville thinks kindness is a good one :)
    Anonymous: Our circumstances create our opinions and belifes and motivations and they cause us to have a purpose.
    Solobill Laville: Can we break free of our circumstances, "X"?
    Anonymous: Yes and no.
    Adelene Dawner: So far: "Nobody should have to suffer just to survive, or just to contribute to society." There should perhaps be a bit in there about how suffering is sometimes *part of* contributing to society, and a choice that can be taken on, but that should not be forced onto anyone for any reason.
    Solobill Laville: Yep, things are. We can and should do what we can and should do.
    Solobill Laville wonders if that is purposeful enough...
    Adelene Dawner: we *can* do lots of things, and 'should' always needs context to be meaningful.
    Solobill Laville: Yeah, I agree, and to "X"'s point it is always subjective
    Anonymous: Is it possible to understand the context everytime though ?
    Anonymous: Thats the problem.
    Anonymous: It's diffocult tos e ethe context of most things.
    Anonymous: well - i mean - other peoples circumstances and the contexts in which they do things.
    Solobill Laville: But is it difficult to see the context of "what you should do" most of the time, I'd argue not
    Solobill Laville: ah, yes :)
    Adelene Dawner: Seeing-context is a learnable skill - not something one can become perfect at, of course, but you can get better. I know I have.
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Solobill Laville: On that note, I must be off!
    Solobill Laville: Thanks all!
    Anonymous: People in power - politicians etc... They do not see the contexts.
    Adelene Dawner: cya Solo
    Adelene Dawner: Maybe they do, maybe they don't - I get the impression that most politicians have to have a rather different set of priorities than the ones we'd consider right, in order to get elected in the first place.

    Big thanks to Adelene, X, and Solobill for an interesting conversation.  It got me thinking about whether "Being" could have a purpose.  My instinct is to say no but "purposeful living" is a way we can talk about what it is to "play as Being."  I can understand the idea that we can "play" as Being meaning we can learn how to live better, become more aware of contexts but I began to wonder if we could really go beyond and "See as Being" or "Be Being."  People talk about what it is to become more aligned with one's true purpose, which is how I interpret "purposeful living" which means to "See as being" but what about "Being Being" which is more to me about going back to the source to become big "P" purpose.  Amazing to be human oscillating between the two but I wonder if it is possible to just Be the emptiness, the source, which as I write this I realize there is no becoming emptiness...emptiness just is and we just are.  Hmmm....food for thought.  Thanks guys!

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