2008.10.08 13:00 - Let sleeping geeks lie

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    The guardian for this session was Wol Euler, filling in for Quilty Bookmite.


    Wol Euler: hello vertigo
    Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste
    Vertigo Ethaniel: wol
    Vertigo Ethaniel: been gone for a while
    Wol Euler: I hope you were OK?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yea, nothing major
    Wol Euler: good
    Vertigo Ethaniel: just work work work, stress, other issues etc
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: oh, I wonder if you are in the list.
    Wol Euler: (list of guardians, I mean,, for auto-loggig.)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: the email list? yea
    Wol Euler: I'm filling in for Quilty this evening/afternoon, but also working on the autologging, trying to get it to run.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: ah ok... quiet night :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: hi fael :)
    Wol Euler: hello fael, how are oyu?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: lovely wings today
    Fael Illyar: I'm quite good today, thank you :) You?
    Fael Illyar smiles at Vertigo.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: and grass skirt? lol
    Vertigo Ethaniel likes grass
    Wol Euler: frazzled, but ok.
    PaB Listener Master: Recording has started!
    PaB Listener: rezzing with param -14596308
    PaB Listener: starting with "862704de-77cd-4090-a72c-be684dd7aef2◊1223495466".
    Vertigo Ethaniel: whoa, gibberish
    Wol Euler: yes, but very important gibberish.
    Wol Euler: the dog barked :-)
    Wol Euler: before, it wasn't barking.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i have numbers above my head :P
    Vertigo Ethaniel: guess im being recorded
    Fael Illyar: it's the recorder.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: does that mean i have a max of 11902 chars? haha
    Vertigo Ethaniel: after that i cease talking
    Wol Euler: nope, that is the amount of memory available at any one time.
    Wol Euler: I had been having overflow problems, i.e. running out.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yea
    Wol Euler: there's no limit to what you can say, except your own imagination and good taste
    Vertigo Ethaniel: :) wise words
    Fael Illyar: Yes, if you forget good taste, ... well, enough about that.
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wol Euler: fael, you'll notice that hte listeners are invisible.
    Fael Illyar loves Wol... yes, as a close friend.
    Wol Euler smiles. awww, thank you.
    Wol Euler: solo was ehre earlier, we were experimenting and he found a problem.
    Wol Euler: he can delete his listener even if I make them no-modify. Which cuts him out of the log.
    Wol Euler: worse, he can delete mine too.
    Wol Euler: the potential for griefing is enormous.
    Fael Illyar: delete? how?
    Wol Euler: so I made them invisible.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: this one isnt invisible?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i can see it
    Wol Euler: "take" removes it from the world., it gest sent back to me.
    Wol Euler: what? how?
    Vertigo Ethaniel: its right there
    Vertigo Ethaniel: on the table
    Wol Euler: ah, no.
    Wol Euler: that stays visible.
    Wol Euler: though killing it would be a problem too
    Vertigo Ethaniel: mm
    Wol Euler: the number above our heads are attached to an invisible object, a Listener. we each have one.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: ahh ok
    Wol Euler: though I wonder (the reason I'm talking about this) if it makes sense to try so hard to prevent malicious action.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yea honestly, when do we get random walk ins :P
    Wol Euler: oh, every day!
    Vertigo Ethaniel: sometimes, but they dont usually try to mess with things
    Fael Illyar: but does the Take trick work for just anyone?
    Wol Euler: I'm going to hve my alt come by and try it, she is not a guardian.
    Wol Euler: hello gaya
    Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: o/ gaya!
    Faenik: could be
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel: long time no talk Vertigo. nice to see you again
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, you too,
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Vertigo Ethaniel: have had no time for SL lately
    Gaya Ethaniel: RL does that sometimes
    Vertigo Ethaniel nods
    Wol Euler: (brb, RL calls :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Fael Illyar: Yes, RL tends to eat a lot of time sometimes.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: i think im going to do something ive wanted to do for some time now
    Gaya Ethaniel listens
    Vertigo Ethaniel: learn tai chi chuan :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Gaya Ethaniel: why tai chi in particular?
    Fael Illyar: I keep hearing about tai chi everywhere :) I'm starting to get somewhat interested :P
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Vertigo Ethaniel: its the most peaceful, least agressive, and something you can just chill out and practice anywhere
    Gaya Ethaniel: true
    Vertigo Ethaniel: for me, itd be like meditation, or hackey sack
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Wol Euler: it looks fascinating, I love to watch people doing it very slowly in the park.
    Wol Euler: wb andy
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Wol
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_


    Brief visitations, and some gossip. 

    Fael Illyar: Hi andy :)
    andypandy Snoodle: hi
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yea! id like to learn it with some friends, so we could go to the park and all practice together
    Gaya Ethaniel: sounds lovely
    Vertigo Ethaniel: greetings andy
    andypandy Snoodle: oh I just realised what you are talking about
    andypandy Snoodle: Tai Chi
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yupyup
    andypandy Snoodle: I wondered ....!!!!
    andypandy Snoodle: what else could people do slowly in the park?!!!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Vertigo Ethaniel: haha wol
    Wol Euler: eh?
    andypandy Snoodle: I have to go now, goodnight everyone
    Fael Illyar ponders when Wol's alt is coming... well, unless it's andy :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night andy
    Wol Euler: ah, bye andy.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: byebye
    Wol Euler: oh, I see. no, vertigo, andy isn't me :-)
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "andypandy Snoodle" from list.
    Fael Illyar grins.
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Vertigo Ethaniel: oh no, more laughing at what andy thought you said when you said you like to watch people doing it in the park slowly
    Vertigo Ethaniel laughs
    Wol Euler: ah, I see...
    Wol Euler: missed that.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Gaya Ethaniel: andy was rather funny yes <smile>
    Wol Euler: mind you it's 8°C here now, I don't think people are doing anything _slowly_ in the park these days.
    Fael Illyar: who knows, people do the strangest things sometimes :)
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Fael Illyar: some of them, in Finland, actually make holes in the ice and go jumping in deliberately during winter.
    Wol Euler: ack!
    Gaya Ethaniel has seen people standing under waterfall during the winter even in a far far away country somewhere in Asia
    Fael Illyar: call them ice baths
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm... Finnish are also a bit...
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yea but then the finnish jump into a sauna afterwards :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes sounds healthier then
    Fael Illyar: it's sauna before and after :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Isen :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Vertigo Ethaniel: lol isen
    Fael Illyar: but it's more fun to not mention that :P
    Wol Euler: hello isen
    Wol Euler: long time no see.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: do you like jumping up and down on the table when noone is around?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Isen Enzo: I apologize....
    Isen Enzo: didnt know I'd land on the table!
    Wol Euler: no worries.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Isen Enzo: okay.
    Isen Enzo: must go to another location..
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Gaya Ethaniel: kinda cool really a zennie suddenly appears right in front of my eyes
    Isen Enzo: nice to see you all!
    Gaya Ethaniel: have fun Isen
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: ah, bye isen
    Isen Enzo: ...poof...
    Wol Euler: take care
    Fael Illyar: see you later Isen :)
    Isen Enzo: he appears...
    Isen Enzo: ....poof....
    Isen Enzo: he disappears!
    Vertigo Ethaniel: eheh
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Isen Enzo" from list.
    Vertigo Ethaniel: later isen
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yep i must go too, work calls.......
    Fael Illyar ponders why come here for just a minute or two...
    Fael Illyar: See you later Vertigo :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: good day Vertigo and catch up soon
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Vertigo Ethaniel: nice seeing you all again
    Wol Euler: bye vertigo, take care. nice to see you again.
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Vertigo Ethaniel" from list.
    Faenik: why not?
    Wol Euler: checking up on us, perhaps :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: who is Vertigo?
    Wol Euler: a guardian, aparently. he's been to a few sessions.
    Wol Euler: australian or new zealander
    Gaya Ethaniel: kiwi yes
    Wol Euler: yep
    Gaya Ethaniel: a guardian also
    Gaya Ethaniel: been busy in RL it seems
    Wol Euler: fairly new, he's not on the wiki list.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... strange
    Gaya Ethaniel: been a guardian a while IIRC
    Wol Euler: and avastu is still on the wiki list...
    Wol Euler: need to clean this up
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah I see
    Fael Illyar: Ah, no-one has been keeping up the list.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Fael Illyar: Pema just has the list he keeps on his own.
    Fael Illyar: that he includes in his emails sometimes
    Wol Euler: well, there is the group membership. that must be the ultimate control.
    Fael Illyar: yes, that's the primary one :)
    Faenik: ah :)
    Wol Euler: hmmm, I wonder. I am considering the list of guardains, and realize that it isnt the same as the list of GoCs
    Wol Euler: this is relevant for the autologging, when it starts.
    Wol Euler: do we take ANY guardian or only those who are GoCs?
    Wol Euler: tricky, Corvi took the log for Riddle the other day but she is not a GoC so that one would have been lost.
    Wol Euler: have to take just anyone, I guess.
    Fael Illyar: yes, even guardians without a weekly slot might do it sometimes
    Fael Illyar: you don't usually get to be a guardian without being here reasonably often.
    Fael Illyar blinks, the master's free memory size is down quite a bit.
    Wol Euler: yeah, I added a few features. Trying to solve edge conditions as they come up.
    Wol Euler: but it is stable, I think...
    Wol Euler: low but stable
    Fael Illyar: ok :)


    My Inner Boss gets loose and starts throwing her weight around. 


    Wol Euler: so, how is the auto-posting on the wiki progressing?
    Fael Illyar: no progress today. I've been figuring out things necessary for my flight on sunday
    Fael Illyar: and what happens after that.
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: when do you think you might be able to get on to it?
    Fael Illyar: tomorrow I'm getting my laptop ...
    Wol Euler: (I'm being asked, so I pass on the asking.)
    Fael Illyar: friday my sister comes for a visit ...
    Fael Illyar: so... mostly if I get bored while in the US.
    Faenik loves wells!
    Wol Euler: but practically it means that you wil start when you return from the US at the end of next week.
    Fael Illyar: next week? I'm there for 2 weeks
    Wol Euler: o.O
    Wol Euler: I think we can't wait three weeks.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Storm :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: I have no idea who can do this, I certainly can't, but we have to get thsi working now.
    Storm Nordwind: Hi :)
    Wol Euler: hello storm
    Fael Illyar: well, it does not look like a big thing to do ... I could probably do it tomorrow.
    Wol Euler: good!
    Wol Euler: if youl could hack it together, and give me access to the server, then I could probably test and tune it while you're away.
    Wol Euler: that would be great.
    Fael Illyar: the flight takes 8 hours so that could be used for some of that ... but would be kind of hard to test it without internet connection.
    Wol Euler: could you install Deki on your laptop?
    Gaya Ethaniel: don't think Finnair has internet connection... as far as I know only Lufthansa so far
    Wol Euler: at lest test the import-and-create-page bits?
    Fael Illyar: yes, although probably less effort to just make it create a page :)
    Wol Euler: whatever, as long as it works reliably :-)
    Fael Illyar: it might :)
    Wol Euler: we're a month behind our first deadline, and already over a week behind the one I hoped to meet.
    Wol Euler: we will now not make the fallback deadline of "after Princeton".
    Gaya Ethaniel wonders how long one has to live in Germany before one becomes uber efficient as Wol
    Wol Euler: I'd be really very grateful if you could get something written, that we can work on.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I'll do something about that.
    Wol Euler: good, thank you very much.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Fael Illyar: one more geekery meeting, this one :)
    Storm Nordwind needs to sort Isen's hermitage out and bids farewell
    Faenik loves wells!
    Gaya Ethaniel: a rather sickly sweet one for me... too much candy
    Wol Euler chuckles wryly.
    Wol Euler: sorry storm, take care.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Fael Illyar: see you later Storm.
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Storm Nordwind" from list.


    I attempt to bring the meeting back to PaB.


    Wol Euler: so, um, does anyone have anything to say about the PaB practices or matters arising?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pema asked me about if PaB practices help treating roots of my issues
    Wol Euler: mm?
    Gaya Ethaniel: temporarily it helps and perhaps over a long period of time in conjuction with my other practices it does
    Gaya Ethaniel: PaB practices alone... somewhat lacking in treating the causes
    Wol Euler nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I mean the PaB practices that I have known and practised so far
    Fael Illyar: Feels to me as if PaB works very well for "upkeep".
    Gaya Ethaniel: some of his suggestion this morning was helpful ie using scientific hypothesis as a metaphor for dealing with stuff in RL... as testing it out and see that it's worth testing out however right one thought of the hypothesis or however wrong the results are
    Gaya Ethaniel: my upkeep also needs regular exercise and formal meditation also along with playing music, reading and all that
    Wol Euler nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: but 9 sec has established a firm place in my daily practice routines


    ... and immediately lead us off on a tangent again.


    Wol Euler: I've found that the single most important thing I can do is to get enough sleep :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Wol Euler: if I sleep too little, everyhting goes to pieces.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I've found that too :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: how many hours work for you Wol?
    Fael Illyar: although, missing a a couple of hours from one night isn't too much yet.
    Wol Euler: ah, corvi's here.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all...
    Wol Euler: I need an average of about eight and a half a day, but can get by on six for two or three days.
    Wol Euler: after that I need to sleep at elast 10.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... I sleep 4-6 for the half of the year then 6-8 for the rest half, depending on the length of sun
    Wol Euler: o.O
    Fael Illyar tends to not sleep much more after having a night with less sleep.
    Wol Euler: well, I sleep less in summer too.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm... so not much sleep for you tonight Fael
    Fael Illyar looks puzzled.
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh you slept well last night then? sorry I got confused
    Fael Illyar: Well, other than waking up to answer a phonecall, I slept just fine :)
    Wol Euler: at your age, Fael, I didn't either. I used to be able to go two days without sleep as a student.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: true Wol, I used to be out partying until 4-5 in the morning and go to lectures at 9... no problem at all during uni
    Fael Illyar: I thought it was no problem to get too little sleep but it was.
    Gaya Ethaniel: it does take a toll after while but ahem... one gets less tolerant as one ages...
    Fael Illyar: just wasn't aware enough to see it when I was younger.
    Wol Euler grins and nods
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: well Wol understand the importance of beauty sleep anyhow
    Fael Illyar: "I'm young and invincible, who needs sleep?"
    Wol Euler: heheheeh
    Wol Euler: enjoy it wihle ti lasts.
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Fael Illyar: but nowadays, I do notice the effect if I start lacking sleep.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Fael Illyar: I've been aware of it for a few years now
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok...
    Wol Euler: :-)
    Fael Illyar: I can do with less if I have to but I'll need some extra help to stay awake.
    Fael Illyar: like coffee
    Faenik loves wells!
    Gaya Ethaniel: sure I can understand that
    Fael Illyar doesn't drink much coffee normally.
    Fael Illyar: although, when lacking sleep, meditating for a few minutes tends to help temporarily as well.
    Wol Euler: a friend gave me a tip for dealing with insomnia: make yourself do something you hate, like cleaning the kitchen.
    Wol Euler: so your subconscious associates being awake in the night with "work",a nd doesn't wake you up.
    Wol Euler: it doesN't work that well :-)
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Fael Illyar: wouldn't work for me since I'd have troubles finding things to do I'd hate enough.
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Fael Illyar: since I kind of like cleaning the kitchen now :P
    Fael Illyar: well, if not like, neutral.
    Fael Illyar: speaking of sleep, I need some already :)
    Wol Euler: :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Fael Illyar: Good night :)
    Wol Euler: off you go then.
    Gaya Ethaniel: good night Fael. sleep well
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: gnight!
    Wol Euler: good night, sleep well.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..Sleep well.
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Fael Illyar" from list.
    Faenik: why not?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm going to leave my avatar here.....and go do some housework...and stuff.
    Gaya Ethaniel: sure Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire throws kisses at everyone....and trots off to do it...shouting over her shoulder..."don't feel like you gotta stay to entertain me."
    Wol Euler: actually I am heading towards bed, it was late yesterday.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sleep well Wol and see you tomorrow
    Wol Euler smiles. good night all, take care.
    Gaya Ethaniel: you too ^^
    Wol Euler: could one of you touch the master and end the session please?
    Wol Euler: (just to make it formal)
    PaB Listener Master: Recording has stopped, the session is ended.
    Gaya Ethaniel: there <smile>
    Wol Euler: ty
    Gaya Ethaniel: np
    Wol Euler: good night, my dears.
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