2008.10.18 07:00 - Dying to Live

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    Solobill was subbing for Pia, who was at PaB-fest...

    My, what an interesting session...Saturday mornings have a whole different feel than my usual afternoon sessions... :)

    I spent a few minutes with a new SL person who only spoke Spanish, so I used my newfangled translator to midling success.  In the end he asked me to walk around with him and explore, to which I had to decline, due to my guardianship duties.  I made a quick break to grab some more coffee...When I sat back down, Bunan was sitting and Gaya was just rezzing.

    Bunan Bosatsu: Is a meeting scheduled here soon?
    Solobill's translator: Bunan Bosatsu: Is a meeting scheduled here soon?
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Solobill's translator: Gaya Ethaniel: _ /! \\ _
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Bunan!!
    Solobill's translator: Hola, Bunan!
    Solobill Laville: (Sorry, I was refilling my coffee)
    Solobill's translator: (Lo siento, yo de volver a llenar mi café)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Solobill's translator: Gaya Ethaniel: / me smiles
    Solobill Laville: Good morning, Gaya!
    Solobill's translator: Buenos días, Gaya!
    Solobill Laville turns off his translator
    Faenik: ah :)
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Solobill Laville: I just had a newbie Spanish speaker here
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Solobill Laville: Bunan, we are actually now in the 7:00AM meeting
    Solobill Laville: I was just waiting for you two to show up :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Solobill Laville: I have enjoyed your blog, thank you Bunan
    Bunan Bosatsu: Hello... ((apologies... I stepped away for a moment))
    Gaya Ethaniel: no problem
    Solobill Laville: well, we're even now then!
    Bunan Bosatsu: Ah.. my blog... You actually *read* that thing?
    Solobill Laville: hehe, I did and do
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. once in a while I do
    Solobill Laville: There are links to it on most of the PaB sites and Zen Retreat sites
    Bunan Bosatsu: (BLUSHES) it is actually more of a journal.... so I don't really attempt (too much) to polish it....
    Solobill Laville: all the better
    Bunan Bosatsu: I hope it will be useful later on in the process... when I look back....
    Gaya Ethaniel: that reminds me... need to add your blog on my list...
    Solobill Laville nods
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Bunan Bosatsu: This dying practice is more difficult than I had predicted....
    Solobill Laville: ah...please go on
    Gaya Ethaniel listens

    Bunan is a RL monk spending 12 months on "dying practice". See: http://dyingpractice.blogspot.com/2008/09/looking-back-looking-forward.html.

    Bunan Bosatsu: Well...
    Bunan Bosatsu: (organizing my thoughts...)
    Solobill Laville sips his coffee
    Bunan Bosatsu: In order to do this... you must really, REALLY look at yourself...
    Bunan Bosatsu: ... some of it is not so good....
    Solobill Laville nods
    Bunan Bosatsu: Some of it can be upsetting... tearing off old scabs.....
    Gaya Ethaniel sips her tea
    Bunan Bosatsu: But... if you arent truly honest.... it is a useless waste of time... so ... you have to open up ALL of the drawers and closets....
    Solobill Laville: it sounds amazingly emancipating
    Bunan Bosatsu: I am starting to approach the years of my life in the Life-Review process where things began to be not so easy..... teenage years...etc. I was raised in a hostile envirinment during those times...
    Bunan Bosatsu: Yes.... all will (hopefully) be all clean and shiny....
    Solobill Laville nods
    Bunan Bosatsu: By the time I am finished...
    Bunan Bosatsu: I must also purge many attachments... mental, emotional, and physical... in the next months...
    Gaya Ethaniel nods...
    Faenik: ah :)
    Bunan Bosatsu: and ... organize my documents... make arrangements for my death.... "Disposing of the Corpse"
    Bunan Bosatsu: Etc.
    Bunan Bosatsu: It is a wonderful practice... but it is kicking my ass at times...
    Bunan Bosatsu: I have learned that I talk entirely too much... and I am doing it now... so ... I will sit quietly now.
    Solobill Laville: We asked you to talk, Bunan... :) and thank you
    Chawan : Don't you feel at one with nature now, Bunan Bosatsu so peaceful and relaxed.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. thank you
    Bunan Bosatsu: bows...
    Solobill Laville: May I ask you a question?
    Bunan Bosatsu: I actually offended the guardian of a meeting here last time I attended.... by talking too much.... I am ashamed.
    Faenik: ah :)
    Solobill Laville raises both of his eyebrows
    Gaya Ethaniel: O.o
    Bunan Bosatsu: She didnt' say anything during the meeting... but it was in the blog....
    Bunan Bosatsu: I wanted to crawl into a hole and pull it in after me...
    Bunan Bosatsu: I was... and am... mortified.
    Solobill Laville: I am sorry about that Bunan
    Bunan Bosatsu: No.... *I* am sorry....
    Gaya Ethaniel: why should you be mortified by how others react when you were being yourself
    Bunan Bosatsu: I was rude and insensitive....
    Bunan Bosatsu: But... hopefully I have learned. Always learning...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sorry
    Solobill Laville: I think there is an attachment to what may seem some sort of PaB propriety
    Solobill Laville: that of course doesn't exist
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: if there is... something like that, I shouldn't come here anymore imo
    Bunan Bosatsu: Well.. there is an attacment to social order and courtesy.... we must all live side by side... so ... we must find a way to get along without offending one another unduly.
    Bunan Bosatsu: I caused offense.... this ws a situation of my own making... I recognize this
    Solobill Laville: Yes, but the only offense here is pushing down an individual's perspective as invalid
    Solobill Laville: And I can't imagine you did that
    Gaya Ethaniel: can't please everyone Bunan
    Bunan Bosatsu: That is true....
    Solobill Laville sips his coffee and takes a deep breath

    I have not seen this chat log yet, I will search it out and find the instance that Bunan spoke about.

    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm glad you would like to talk... as I'm in the mood to listen... not offensive at all
    Bunan Bosatsu: But... in that case.... I have detected a pattern that has also occured in RL... so, it was actually a gift to see it verbalized by an entirely unbiased person... so... I have used it to try to improve... not so bad... just.... embarassing at the outset.
    Gaya Ethaniel: all I want from ppl around me is to be themselves... nothing more
    Gaya Ethaniel: nothing less...
    Bunan Bosatsu: Stay away from serial killers and mass murders... just a safety tip.
    Bunan Bosatsu: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: of course if one can help it
    Gaya Ethaniel: could be anyone
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: or no one
    Solobill Laville: What is this pattern Bunan?
    Petepete Magic: heyhey
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

    I wanted Bunan to speak more about his noticing of a pattern...

    Solobill Laville takes a bite out of hot banana bread in RL!
    Gaya Ethaniel: [7:27] Bunan Bosatsu: But... in that case.... I have detected a pattern that has also occured in RL... so, it was actually a gift to see it verbalized by an entirely unbiased person... so... I have used it to try to improve... not so bad... just.... embarassing at the outset.
    Solobill Laville: yes, that one, thanks Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: np
    Solobill Laville: Hello, Petepete!
    Faenik: indeed?
    Bunan Bosatsu: Ah... flapping of jaws... and taking over the conversation.... which whould be a dance... and not a broadcast.... I think it is a manifestation of some ego thing.... so ... I am addressing it.
    Bunan Bosatsu: should vs. would
    Gaya Ethaniel throws something at 'should'
    Solobill Laville: Is perhaps part of an effort to assist people?
    Bunan Bosatsu: Most likely.... but, you know I have realized that sometimes the best method is to simply allow a person to work an issue out on their own by listening skillfully....
    Bunan Bosatsu: ...rather than attempting to 'teach' or 'solve'.....
    Solobill Laville: I agree with that strongly
    Gaya Ethaniel nods sometimes yes
    Bunan Bosatsu: Allow the situation to flow and evolve... rather than inflict some opinon or solutotion....
    Bunan Bosatsu: this is what I am learning....
    Gaya Ethaniel remembers Wol and wu wei
    Bunan Bosatsu: nods
    Solobill Laville: So, may I ask you a question, Bunan
    Bunan Bosatsu: So... I can honestly say that that meeting helped me personally more than any other
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Bunan Bosatsu: (sometimes you need a good kick in the ass I suppose)
    Solobill Laville: Well, maybe good outcome for the wrong reason...
    Bunan Bosatsu: I'm sorry... what is your question?
    Solobill Laville: Was it a hard decision to become a monk?
    Bunan Bosatsu: .... every day.....
    Bunan Bosatsu: ...even now...
    Solobill Laville: And a follow-up too...
    Bunan Bosatsu: ....though, I could not imagine *NOT* being a monk....
    Bunan Bosatsu: Soemtimes I feel like a big pretender.... sort of ... "How could *I* be a monk... oh PLEASE!! Who am I fooling....?!?!" -- BUt then I realize that being a monk has no connotations attached to it.... it is a process... much like any other..... highs and lows... shit and sunshine....
    Solobill Laville: Is the dying practice easier or harder than that one? Or maybe that is not possible to answer.
    Faenik loves wells!
    Bunan Bosatsu: I look upon the dying practice as something that is necessary.... I WILL die... I have no choice.... I choose to be a monk with every breath...
    Solobill Laville: but the PRACTICE is a choice...no?
    Bunan Bosatsu: The practice is a choice.... yes.....
    Bunan Bosatsu: It is not DEATH practice... but DYING practice..... Death being a state... and dying being a process....
    Bunan Bosatsu: You dont have to practrice for death... you will just be dead.
    Gaya Ethaniel: sounds like two are similar... for you Bunan
    Bunan Bosatsu: But... I want to die well.... learn and embrace death.. and learn to live completely... and most importantly.... authentically.
    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville: I think that is a driving force, albeit maybe an under-current, for most folks involved in contemplative efforts
    Petepete Magic: sorry - had to go sort some things out
    Solobill Laville: it is for me anyway


    The fear of death is a great motivator.

    Bunan Bosatsu: You know... we run around ... everything is so important... we cannot take a moment for anything.... then... we die... and in one quick moment.... all of that STUFF is renedered utterly meaningless.... so .... what is truly important in a life? That is my question
    Gaya Ethaniel: np Pete nice to see you again
    Petepete Magic: Wow.... i came into a VERY deep conve
    Petepete Magic: hey
    Bunan Bosatsu: Hello!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Solobill Laville: Living Righly with a Right View is to me (but I'd have to continually reflect on that) :)
    Blood Chalace Scripted (Dark Depressions) whispers: mmmmm .. a warm cup of blood
    Gaya Ethaniel: meaning of life... Adele recently talked about 'purpose' of her life
    Solobill Laville: Yes
    Bunan Bosatsu: Yes... but the definition of right view is what? THe same every moment??
    Petepete Magic: we should record this deep conversation
    Gaya Ethaniel: hope you stay Pete
    Petepete Magic: i will unless the laptop gets taken off me =[
    Solobill Laville: And I've talked a lot lately about those "things" that get dragged up from our history, etc.
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Solobill Laville: Ah, good point Pete, it is recorded, is that oK with you?
    Petepete Magic: yea
    Solobill Laville: ty
    Petepete Magic: we already had this convo (over a month ago lol wen i 1st came here)
    Gaya Ethaniel: those things as in Solo? purpose of life?
    Solobill Laville: Right View needs to be continually worked on, yes? Like the choice to be a monk?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods yes
    Petepete Magic: Mommy, Second Life won't work today..=[[
    Bunan Bosatsu: As I sit here now this is my opinion... yes...
    Petepete Magic: im just gonna have a fly in my UFO.... this is too deep for my brain lol
    Bunan Bosatsu: It is a continual search to effortlessly recognize the true function of the present moment... whatever that may happen to be..... a tall order, I think!
    Gaya Ethaniel: being a monk is a continued choice Bunan... what do you think? you can always stop being a monk... so it's a process
    Solobill Laville: (No, gaya, "things" as in guilt, self-loathing, anger, etc.)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... yes my old friends also Solo
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Bunan Bosatsu: I think that you can choose to be and not to be and to be and not to be a monk... or anthing else... many times in what we consider to be a moment.....
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Bunan Bosatsu: How you act upon those choices may be a different matter....
    Solobill Laville: i think the key to all this is "in this moment", perhaps
    Bunan Bosatsu: Yes... absolutely......
    Solobill Laville: That's all we have!! :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Bunan Bosatsu: In any case... the present moment is the only moment that we have living access to.....
    Bunan Bosatsu: We look inward to find our past.... and outward to some hoped for, feared, or predicted future....
    Bunan Bosatsu: BUt... we live here... in between the two.
    Solobill Laville: So, addressing the "corpses in the closet" is a way to live more fully now
    Bunan Bosatsu: If we live authentically.... and not with many plys of opinion and notional thinking separating us from our life.
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes so that actions are followed by conscious choices...
    Solobill Laville: and vice-versa too
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Bunan Bosatsu: WEll... life is like a work in progress.... it can never be finished, until we die..... so, in a way... I suppose the worst is always yet to come as long as we live!! .... life cannot be finished while we live it... but, I think it can be abandoned... or avoided.... and we have a propensity to to this....
    Bunan Bosatsu: ...pariculalry when we are confronted with situations to which we are averse....
    Bunan Bosatsu: we 'get through' things... rather than fully experiencing them....
    Bunan Bosatsu: ... and we miss our life.
    Solobill Laville: mmm hmmm
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders
    Solobill Laville: I think that may the norm
    Faenik: why not?
    Gaya Ethaniel: what is 'wrong' with avoiding/abandoning?
    Bunan Bosatsu: So.... insofar ad dying practice is concerned... by facing the 'worst' we learn to accept everything else.... this is only my opinon.
    Gaya Ethaniel: a personal choice no?
    Solobill Laville: Really, ulitmately, Gaya, there is no wrong or right
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Bunan Bosatsu: What is wrong? Well.... nothing if you dont mind living your life second third or fourth hand....
    Bunan Bosatsu: However... if you want to LIVE and fully experience life AS IT IS... then ... it may not be wrong... but I would classify it as unskillful.
    Solobill Laville: We are all on different paths, as well
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Solobill Laville: SL seems a bit funky today
    Gaya Ethaniel: weekend...
    Solobill Laville: ah....
    Solobill Laville: i am never usually on a Sat. morning
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. I know
    Gaya Ethaniel: well some ppl need to go through avoid/abandon phase... it's ok
    Solobill Laville: yes, but, it is part if the process to work through the more deep seated issues
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Solobill Laville: Of course, that has to be self-driven...to Bunan's point earlier, people have to do it themselves
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. yes exeperience for themselves fully
    Gaya Ethaniel: I do wonder though what Bunan said...
    Gaya Ethaniel: [7:50] Bunan Bosatsu: So.... insofar ad dying practice is concerned... by facing the 'worst' we learn to accept everything else.... this is only my opinon.
    Gaya Ethaniel: not sure if this would work for everyone
    Chawan : Don't you feel at one with nature now, Bunan Bosatsu so peaceful and relaxed.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Bunan
    Solobill Laville: Of course, it only works if it works for where you are, at that time in that moment
    Bunan Bosatsu: Thanks... my connection borked... sorry...
    Solobill Laville: wb, Bunan
    Solobill Laville: hehe "borked"
    Solobill Laville: I haven't heard that one in a while...
    Gaya Ethaniel looks up the word on dictionary
    Solobill Laville: I assume "Palined" will be used in the future...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Palined?
    Solobill Laville: As in, "thanks for the question, but I want to talk about this..."
    Bunan Bosatsu: HA! Yes! Maybe it will!
    Faenik: indeed?
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm... think this is something to do with America...
    Solobill Laville: yes, sorry Gaya, we are so self-interested over here
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: apologies for my ignorance
    Bunan Bosatsu: Yes... a refernce to the Vice presidential candidate (Republican)...
    Solobill Laville: Sarah Palin, VP candidate during the debates
    Solobill Laville: yup
    Gaya Ethaniel: Ah... was confused... thought you meant Michael Palin...
    Gaya Ethaniel: anyway back to the topic if ok...
    Solobill Laville: ah! hehe
    Bunan Bosatsu: well.... "And NOW for something comPLETEly different!"
    Solobill Laville: I love Michael Palin, my favorite Python!
    Bunan Bosatsu: :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. John Cleese is also my fav...
    Bunan Bosatsu: SO... it works either way!
    Gaya Ethaniel: look on the bright side of life hey
    Solobill Laville: "life is full of shit, when you look at it..."
    Gaya Ethaniel: [7:57] Solobill Laville: Of course, it only works if it works for where you are, at that time in that moment
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles... well
    Gaya Ethaniel: good fertiliser...
    Gaya Ethaniel: so can you say more Solo?
    Solobill Laville: Well, I meant again just where we are on our own individual path
    Solobill Laville: Wouldn't it be safe to say that Bunan, for example, would be more prepared for dying gracefully that most?
    Solobill Laville: Time will tell of course ;)
    Bunan Bosatsu: Well... we wont have any idea until the time comes....really.
    Solobill Laville: hehe, jinx
    Solobill Laville: Does that make sense Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes
    Bunan Bosatsu: You could say that I am perhaps more pepared to consider it presently than many .... or that I at least have some dsire to confront the issue... rather than avoid it.... that would be at least partially accurate, I think.
    Solobill Laville nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: imo... there isn't dying gracefully or anything like that... one doesn't have time to reflect one's life most of time at the point of death
    Solobill Laville: hmmmmm
    Solobill Laville respects Gaya's opinion :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I just want to die if possible with smile on my face...
    Solobill Laville: That is great grace, Gaya!
    Gaya Ethaniel: well it depends of course... how one dies Solo
    Bunan Bosatsu: It is probably a great deal like sneezing in most cases.... you don't expect it... at least not for long.... and you cant help it.... sometimes you end up with stuff all over you....
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: If I have a ternimal disease... I'd have some time to do the reflection on my life and so on but at the point of death... not sure what it'd be like... concept of time would be irrelevant in a way
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Bunan Bosatsu: I think that the whole idea of learning how to die is a big steaming pile of crap.... who can teach this? ANyone who can speak on it from firsthand experience screwed it up somehow..... so really, I am learning how to live with the prospect of dying.
    Solobill Laville: well, again though, death is a poing, dying is a process
    Solobill Laville: *point
    Bunan Bosatsu: We are dying right now.... so.... learning to die is learning to live.
    Gaya Ethaniel: but... what do you mean by point... difference between point/process?
    Solobill Laville: True, most of it simply is coming to terms, really, that we die at all
    Solobill Laville: Death is like snapping your fingers, or sneezing
    Bunan Bosatsu: Is the water cold?? HA!
    Solobill Laville: dying is all the time...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I sometimes experience 'timeless'
    Faenik: why not?
    Gaya Ethaniel: in that experiences, points or processes don't mean much...

    A new avatar sat in with us, I spoke about PaB and gave him a notecard, but when I asked if it was OK to record him in the wiki site he vanished...

    Gaya Ethaniel: though... I look at life as a process to learn about myself and the world I live in... definitely not enlightened enough to do that at the point of my death in one go
    Bunan Bosatsu: What do you learn?
    Gaya Ethaniel: and I don't know when I will die... it could be soon or later... can't tell
    Solobill Laville: That timelessness experience, as a flavor of realization, would of course be beyond points or process
    Bunan Bosatsu: My guess is that we most likely die sooner than we expect to....
    Gaya Ethaniel: perhaps yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: a good question Bunan
    Solobill Laville: but that is another topic... :)
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders
    Gaya Ethaniel: something about acceptance... that I've been working on for a while
    Gaya Ethaniel: realising how it is... and acceptance of it
    Bunan Bosatsu: Accepting life or others? Or BEING accepted by life or others?
    Solobill Laville: Weeding the garden :)
    Bunan Bosatsu: Or both?
    Gaya Ethaniel: life, others... well all related
    Bunan Bosatsu: YES!
    Gaya Ethaniel: whether others accept me or not... that's not something I can do much about
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can only change how I react
    Solobill Laville accepts Gaya
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. ty Solo
    Bunan Bosatsu: ... or how you *respond*
    Gaya Ethaniel: me too ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes respond or live... all that Bunan
    Bunan Bosatsu: (I make a distinction between the two...)
    Gaya Ethaniel: pls say more?
    Solobill Laville: Friends this was a great talk, but I must go
    Faenik: could be
    Solobill Laville: Great to see you Bunan
    Bunan Bosatsu: When most people are screamed at... they scream right back... this is a REACTION
    Solobill Laville: Hope to see more of you! :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks for coming Solo. Enjoy your weekend.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Bunan Bosatsu: When some people are screamed at ... they consider what might be the true function that the moment dictates... and they respond accordingly.
    Solobill Laville: Gaya, I think I was filling in for Pia, can you get the rest of the log if you Bunan keep chatting?
    Gaya Ethaniel: of course no worries Solo
    Bunan Bosatsu: Thank you Solo... nice to see you again!
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: guess you mean if one is aware or not... reaction/respond
    Bunan Bosatsu: Yes.... a reaction is (my definition here...) ... conditioned.... automatic.... a response is considered, tailored if yuou will...
    Faenik loves wells!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. ok I understand
    Bunan Bosatsu: It has been a pleasure.... I fear I have once again talked too much! Harder to fix than to recognize... as with most things, .... plap!
    Gaya Ethaniel: hope to talk to you again soon Bunan
    Gaya Ethaniel: it's always a pleasure
    Bunan Bosatsu: Yes! I hope so too! Please... be well!
    Bunan Bosatsu: Safe paths to you!
    Gaya Ethaniel: same to you
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

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