2008.10.27 07:00 - Three (or More) Notions of Being

When I, Pema, entered, I found Wol talking with Ry; from the conversation I guessed that it was Ry's first visit to PaB. Adams walked in around the same time.

Wol Euler: that card tells you a little of who we are, and we have a website about the group
Pema Pera: Hi Wol, Adams, Ry!
Ry Bolissima: how long does it usually last again?
Adams Rubble: Hello Pema, Wol and Ry :)
Wol Euler: mmmm, about an hour or so is usual
Wol Euler: sometimes only thirty minutzes, sometimes up to six hours -)
Wol Euler: hello adams, pema
Pema Pera: hehe, that was one time
Ry Bolissima: ah.. well I can't stay for now.. my chinese class is starting at 10
Wol Euler: true
Ry Bolissima: but it sounds very interesting
Pema Pera: anyone can come and go whenever they like, Ry
Pema Pera: people keep popping in and out
Wol Euler: 4 tiems a day, 1am 7am 1pm 7pm
Wol Euler: ure
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you Ry
Wol Euler: *sure
Wol Euler: take care now
Ry Bolissima: i might can show up at 7pm
Ry Bolissima: you have a good one
Wol Euler: mm, those are particularly active sessions :-)
Ry Bolissima: zai jian.. cya
Pema Pera: How are things going, Wol?
Wol Euler: middling.
Wol Euler: SL good, RL mixed.
Pema Pera: :)
Wol Euler: and yourself?
Pema Pera: oh, fine, just a bit behind with everything . . . .
Adams Rubble: Hello Fael :)
Pema Pera: like, I saw this great title about Wol grokking APAPB or such, and I *still* haven't had time to read the blog!
Pema Pera: will do so soon
Wol Euler: hello fael
Pema Pera: Hi Fael!
Wol Euler: hehehehehe, that was a good one
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams, Wol, Pema :)

Fael arrived, here in SL in the pavilion, after having arrived back home in RL after his two-week visit to me in Princeton.

Wol Euler: welcome home, in several senses
Fael Illyar: wow, my desktop system feels _sluggish_ after 2 weeks of my laptop.
Pema Pera: did you have a good flight, Fael?
Wol Euler: :)
Fael Illyar: As good of a flight as you can I guess :)
Fael Illyar: but I'm also kind of staring at the color of my AV wide eyed. Doesn't look this purple on my laptop :)
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I have been seriously considering borrowing one of those calibration devices to try to match my screen sup
Fael Illyar: well, looks better this way though :)
Fael Illyar: well, visual method would be enough I think
Fael Illyar: but ... did I interrupt your conversation?
Wol Euler: no, we were just getting started
Wol Euler: still in the parking lot, as it were
Fael Illyar: sure :)
Fael Illyar spent less on the trip than expected so now has enough extra to finally order a replacement TFT screen.
Fael Illyar: I was thinking of just having the laptop but ...
Wol Euler: it's always good to have several computers :)
Fael Illyar: well, I have 3 but 2 of them share a screen :P
Wol Euler: o.O
Fael Illyar: they didn't use to but one of my screens broke
Fael Illyar kind of feels like she's dragging topic towards geekery here.
Wol Euler smiles. I usually drag it towards the playground.
Wol Euler: does anyone has anything to discuss?
Wol Euler: (sorry Pema, doing your job from sheer habit)
Pema Pera: I'd love to hear your grokking APAPB Wol
Fael Illyar: ah, that does sound interesting :)
Pema Pera: (even though I still haven't read that chat log, will do so today, promise!)
Pema Pera: (was too busy with all those visitors . . . :)

I was refering to http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2008/10/2008.10.18_13%3a00_-_Wol_Euler_finally_understands_APAPB!

Wol Euler: ok, I'll give you the executive summary then :)
Fael Illyar was busy being a visitor.
Pema Pera listeing with baited breath
Pema Pera: hehe, Fael
Wol Euler: Storm and Geo were talking about Oth and First and Second Life, and how persons and avs and Being relate to them
Wol Euler: and I had a flash of what felt like insight:
Wol Euler: our SL avs are to our RL selves, as our RL selves are to Being.
Wol Euler: we are Being's avatars in RL
Pema Pera: !
Wol Euler: and had an image of Mr. Being lying inthe bathtub, raising his hand palm upwards out of the water
Pema Pera: hehehe
Fael Illyar: so, sounds like you had this "something clicked" moment :)
Wol Euler: definitely!
Wol Euler: we see his fingertips break the surface and think that they are separate pheomena, but the are all just bits of Being
Pema Pera: Thanks for sharing that, Wol, yes, that's definitely an interesting direction, and definitely one good way to look at things!
Fael Illyar: ah, that's an excellent way to put it :)
Wol Euler: which reminded me of John Donne and "no man is an island"
Pema Pera: !!
Wol Euler: it all seemed to tie togehter and make sense.
Fael Illyar tries to wake up Adams again, important things going on.
Wol Euler: hi corvi
Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
Pema Pera: Hi Corvi!

Corvie arrived, and immediately after that Adams shedded the "away" pose.

Wol Euler: it worked!
Pema Pera: hahaha
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what worked?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hiya!
Wol Euler: [7:16] Fael Illyar tries to wake up Adams again, important things going on.
Pema Pera: you woke Adams!
Pema Pera: your entry
Fael Illyar smiles.
Wol Euler: and imediatly after she de-awayed
Adams Rubble: Hello Corvi :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh, Hi, Adams!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was sent to shake you awake.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: apparantly.
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar is past having to fight not falling asleep for the moment.
Wol Euler muses, Do any of us really know our purpose in life?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know mine!
Wol Euler: jetlag is a curse.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Jetlag is a curse.
Pema Pera: jetlag is a nice chance to explore states of consciousness
Pema Pera: like waking, dreaming, various states in between
Fael Illyar grins
Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
Pema Pera: (but a curse when you have work scheduled!)
Fael Illyar: speaking of which, the strange period of clarity I had the first evening in Princeton seems to be returning.
Pema Pera: aha!
Fael Illyar: not completely there but resemebles it
Pema Pera: If I may come back to Wol's Grok:
Wol Euler: mm?
Fael Illyar: but I do think I got some realizations the last 2 weeks because of the jetlag :)
Pema Pera: yes, Fael?

I then mentioned three ways to use the notion of Being, with the first one the way Wol had used it.

Pema Pera: Wol, how about a slight variation on the theme you mentioned: to consider the typist of the typist of Wol to not yet be Being in all its full glory, but something in between Being and your RL self, like what Adams called Z-self?
Fael Illyar smiles.
Fael Illyar: ones that don't quite bend to words well
Fael Illyar: I could see the difference in quite a contrast with how I was when jetlagged and when I wasn't
Wol Euler: yes, that is a possibility I suppose. I hadn't really considered that Being itself was personally laying hands on my puppet strings
Fael Illyar: relates to being self conscious.
Pema Pera: hehe, Wol, sure
Wol Euler: mmhmm, the innermost-est of me's, before all training and impulse and fear and thoughts
Pema Pera: I have been using the word Being in at least three different ways, so far, all related for sure, but it is interesting to see the differences too
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sy the three?
Pema Pera: For example, when I sometimes say that I notice how I can step aside to let Being take over or shine through
Pema Pera: then that is more like Wol's move
Pema Pera: of seeing what is behind the RL typist who is behind the SL avatar
Pema Pera: the next one in line so to speak
Pema Pera: That's the first use
Pema Pera: The second use of the word Being is to follow that line all the way to its vanishing point
Pema Pera: to what is totally beyond all distinctions and dualities and dichotomies
Pema Pera: the "ultimate" typist so to speak, but then above all pair of contrasts, even beyond "one vs. many", etc
Pema Pera: Then the third way of using the notion of Being is to consider that everything is already Being, just as it is
Pema Pera: Contrasting and realting the three is an endlessly fascinating adventure
Pema Pera: av -> typist -> B1 -> . . . . -> B2 (with B3 being the space in which this is written)
Wol Euler: hmmmm
Adams Rubble: I was just going to ask where space comes into this

Fael and Corvi then filled in the dots, while creating more of them :-)

Fael Illyar: umm... av -> typist -> b1 -> b2 -> ... -> bn
Fael Illyar: feels more fitting
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmm
Fael Illyar: oh wait
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like Fael's version
Fael Illyar: need to continue
Pema Pera: sure, but I have little to say about the next stage beyond b1 . . . so I skipped that for now, while I do like to focus on the vanishing point
Fael Illyar: well, basically, infinite list :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe the numbers are backward
Pema Pera: many traditions focus on exploring Fael's b1, b2, etc, and then there is the drawback of never getting to the vanishing point ; PaB STARTS at the vanishing point, that's the biggest difference
Pema Pera: Alas, RL interfering, making me vanish now!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: av ->typist -> bn ->bn-1 -> b 0
Pema Pera: Sorry to have to go
Wol Euler grins
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Pema!
Fael Illyar: See you later Pema :)
Adams Rubble: bye Pema
Wol Euler: ah well, bye pema, enjoy being Being being.
Pema Pera: Yes, Corvi, good notation -- if I only knew what n was !
Pema Pera: hehe, bye for now!
Pema Pera: Can someone keep the log?
Wol Euler: sure
Pema Pera: I'll post mine later today, so you can add, or email me
Wol Euler: ok
Pema Pera: c u all!

I left, and Wol would later send me the remaining lines:

Adams Rubble wonders why I don't have a number
Fael Illyar: number?
Adams Rubble: over my head
Wol Euler: yes you do
Fael Illyar: but you do?
Wol Euler: zoom out a bit, the number may be hidden in your title
Adams Rubble: Ah, it was off camera
Fael Illyar is too tired to think properly. She meant avatar -> typist -> b1 -> b2 -> b3 -> ...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
Wol Euler: I want to bring in something quite lovely that I read recently.
Wol Euler: http://koshtra.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html#1269196309651406205
Wol Euler: Dale's blog is badly organized, skip down to the section titled "Taking and sending"
Corvuscorva Nightfire bows...I'm sorry, I am called away.
Wol Euler: ah, sorry corvi. take care
Adams Rubble: bye Corvi
Fael Illyar: oh, that's an interesting blog entry
Wol Euler smiles. Isn't it just? I am thinking of adding a branch to the wiki for such related external items
Fael Illyar: yes, that'd be nice :)
Wol Euler: Dale is a marvellous man, an inspiration. His blog got me started on meditation, really.
Wol Euler: when he talks about "the laying on of hands", that is his new job. He quit the cubicle at A Certain Humungous Software Company (coughs) and opened a massage practice.
Wol Euler: literally laying on hands
Fael Illyar: :)
Wol Euler: reduced his income by a factor of at least six but he is so much happier.
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar: income is overrated :)
Wol Euler: heheh
Adams Rubble: yes
Fael Illyar: well, I'll log out now :) I've shown myself and that I'm back home safe :)
Adams Rubble: Good to see you fael and glad you are home safely :)
Wol Euler: bye fael, nice to see you
Fael Illyar: thank you :)
Fael Illyar waves.
Adams Rubble waves back
Wol Euler yawns quietly. My turn to have slept badly :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler: well, its nearly 8 am so I declare the session ended.