2008.11.07 19:00 - About listening

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    This session was recovered from the autologging test database. Adelene was guardian. Wol suggested the title.


     Adelene Dawner: *purr purr* Hi, Love. 

    Threedee Shepherd: Gee, not exactly a crowd ^.^ 

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 

    Threedee Shepherd: purrrrr:) 

    Adelene Dawner: Hm, I was hoping that log would be up... not yet. Ah, well. 

    Adelene Dawner: autism is definitely working back into the topic-cycle again. 

    Threedee Shepherd: May not be needed unless there are fashionably late arrivals ^.^ 

    Adelene Dawner: No, log from earlier today. 

    Threedee Shepherd: yes, it is. Any reason from your point of view? 

    Threedee Shepherd: Earlier. I was at the last half of the 1 PM session and it was about Pema's dialog experiment. 

    Adelene Dawner: I was out then. The 7am one had three threads, that was one of 'em. 

    Adelene Dawner: And as to why... well, it is more of a factor right now. 

    Threedee Shepherd: 7 AM is JUST a bit early for me ;) 

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm. 8am your time, but 10am mine. 

    Threedee Shepherd: yup 

    Adelene Dawner pulls up her log and checks to see if there were any particular points of interest. 

    Adelene Dawner: Adelene Dawner: I actually haven't done the 9-second meditations. Adams Dubrovna: :) Adelene Dawner: I don't talk about it much 'cause it always seems to sound like bragging, but my normal mindstate is generally very close to meditation anyway... the nines actually did more harm than good. Albertus Urvilan: I do a similar practice, "one-breath meditation" - coming back to the breath throughout the day. Albertus Urvilan: Adelene, what you describe is rather like what people with overarticulated limbs (stretchy noodle girs for example) find in yoga class. Hard for them to achieve the work of the pose, ironically. Adelene Dawner: Mmhmm. Albertus Urvilan: They so naturally "flop" into poses, the energetic work can be a chore. They have to come at the work from a different angle. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya 

    Adelene Dawner: Oh, Hi Corvi :) 

    Threedee Shepherd: hi corvi 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire hugs Adelene and scritches Three's ears. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Just home from work. 

    Adelene Dawner: Ah :) Good day, I hope? 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm 

    Adelene Dawner: Ever get around to trying out that scanner? 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: left from you to work....so no.... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no chance...I can tomorrow morning, though. 

    Adelene Dawner: ok :) 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I liked our conversation this morning, very much. 

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm ^.^ 

    Adelene Dawner: I was sharing part of it with Three - log's not up yet. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Adelene Dawner: It really is interesting the different responses I get when people find out I'm autistic and/or see the effects of that, though. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...been thinking about that all day... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: how "different" always comes with so many assumptions. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or often does anyway. 

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and thinking about hiding things, too.... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: differences... 

    Adelene Dawner: I'm not even sure I have anything to say about that. It's just life, for me. 

    Threedee Shepherd: It's even harder than that: If one treats others as you want to treated, you are already lost, because the point is to treat them as THEY want to be treated, which is hard to know. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: right! 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: part of the conversation was bout listening... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and really grokking others. 

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's life for alot of us, though, Adelene. 

    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm 

    Adelene Dawner nods. 

    Threedee Shepherd: It is very hard to listen without intending to find an answer or a solution... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nodsnods. 

    Adelene Dawner: yes 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that was exactly what I was saying.... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It's hard to get one's self out of the way. 

    Adelene Dawner: that relates to assumptions, though... shortcut... The first step in solving a problem is to understand it. So the problem isn't 'trying to find a solution', it's trying to take a shortcut along that path. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmm 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: part of it. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Part of it is too...diy mentality. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: That *I must find the solution. 

    Adelene Dawner: more? 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and not the person you are listening to. 

    Adelene Dawner: Ah, yes. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Whose challenge it is in the first place. 

    Adelene Dawner: I think there's responsibility on both sides, though, for that kind of problem - you'll notice that I'm not at all shy about saying 'I'm not looking for advice' or 'no, actually, that's not a problem'. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Adelene Dawner doesn't understand why more people don't say those things. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe we just like the attention. 

    Adelene Dawner chuckles and shakes her head. "Silly NTs." 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire scritches Ade's head. 

    Adelene Dawner: *purr purr purr* 

    Threedee Shepherd: Well if someone (an NT) is offering advice, one does not want to appear to reject it, because that's not a polite way to respond to the other persons concern for you. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's part of the grease. 

    Adelene Dawner: It seems to me like there's a signifigant difference between either of the things I said, and actually rejecting the advice ('I think that won't work') 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes indeed.... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but not as much as is comfortable for me at times. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I mean. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm comfortable with you saying that to me... 

    Threedee Shepherd: Anything other than "thanks, that's a good idea" can sound like rejection 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but not with me saying it to others. 

    Adelene Dawner sighs at Three. "Yeah, that's an unintended consequence of you guys putting a spin on anything the slightest bit negative. You can't say 'no, that's a horrible idea', so you say 'I'm not looking ofr advice, thanks' instead, but then 'I'm not looking for advice' starts to be a rejection too, and there's no way of communicating a true not-looking-for-advice situation any more." 

    Threedee Shepherd: When someone is being frank and direct, one of the first thoughts an NT may have is "I wonder what thy are up to?" 

    Adelene Dawner: And you wonder why I want to go live in a damn cave. :P 

    Threedee Shepherd chuckles almost ironically 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: me too at times. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: not a product of your brain chemistry... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or not solely. 

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 

    Threedee Shepherd: Or, you can emulate the Dalai Lama, and just smile and look right past the diversion to the real core, and try to reflect it back (which is hard, and I don't claim to be a saint;) 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it is hard..and often worth it. 

    Adelene Dawner: yup 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: a challenge. 

    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: most fun thing...is to figure out how to get out of the way and really listen.... 

    Threedee Shepherd: To be very specific, the first rule in animal training is "make no response to behaviors you want to cease." 

    Adelene Dawner chuckles. "If human training worked like animal training, I'd be a lot better at it." 

    Threedee Shepherd: Corvi, I suggest that one good way to do that is to recognize you HAVE already done it, preconsciously, before words start to get into the act 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mostly...I do alright with that one... 

    Adelene Dawner nods at Corvi and licks her hand. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it can be tiring...but I'm decently good at it. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles at Adelene. 

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ 

    Threedee Shepherd: a sign of a good manager, Corvi 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. 

    Threedee Shepherd: listening intersects with the maxim that often a good way to lead is by following. 

    Adelene Dawner growls. 

    Adelene Dawner: (not at you guys) 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mm? 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: growling at? 

    Adelene Dawner: Guess. :P 

    Threedee Shepherd: BF 

    Adelene Dawner: Give the man a cookie. :| 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah 

    Adelene Dawner: We have *still* not mastered the art of asking for our girlfriend's attention instead of coming into the room, announcing our presence, waiting a moment, and beginning to speak. 

    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Serge. 

    Random Visitor: hi 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hi 

    Random Visitor: hi 

    Threedee Shepherd: hello 

    Random Visitor: what are you doing 

    Threedee Shepherd: goodnight folks, I need to attend to some stuff, :) 

    Adelene Dawner: See you, Three. *purr purr* 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Three! 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire wonders what Ade was saying? 

    Adelene Dawner is still tense. "Yes, 'better' is *definitely* relative." :P 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes. 

    Adelene Dawner: What I was saying when? 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: your mouth moved...stopped...then a bit later the words came out. 

    Adelene Dawner: ah. *shrugs* 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Adelene Dawner sighs. "I wanna goooo.. I'm *done* here." 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ok 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you mean in rl 

    Adelene Dawner: yeah, not here-here. I wanna move. I'm sick of this crap from him. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Adelene Dawner: Might not be too long. I was looking; I can get an efficiency near my work (conveniently in a cheap neighborhood) with utilities included for $750/month. I can swing that. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sounds perfect! 

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm 

    Adelene Dawner: Call it $900 after food 'n internet... I get $1200 a month from my day job, so that's doable, if not pleasant. That's before factoring in anything I get from 3de, though. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: 1200 seems doable in (where Corvi lives)

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: before this job that was what I made. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and it was ok... 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but you have a higher cost of living there, I think. 

    Adelene Dawner: That's what I've heard, yes. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. 

    Adelene Dawner: *sigh* RL, BF. Back in a while. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: /em nods..may go for a while...call me if I'm still on. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Steve! 

    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Corvi 

    stevenaia Michinaga: Ade 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Ade is afk, I think 

    stevenaia Michinaga: how was the evenng? 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't know..I just got off work. 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: how was yours? 

    stevenaia Michinaga: busy, It was "First Friday" in town so stores and galleries were open 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh! 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nice! 

    stevenaia Michinaga: I was MC'g the awards reception of a photo contest sounsored by local historical society andCity Arts Commission 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nice! 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oooo 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I must go.... 

    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy your evening 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles...and you, yours. 

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