2008.11.14 07:00 - Emotions and logics

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    Gaya replaced quen for this session and comments are hers. She joined Becka as the bell announced the hour (do we have a new regular and from Europe?). Corvi and Susi soon joined them.

    Becka Finesmith: Hi Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Becka, Gaya
    Becka Finesmith: I finished my assignment :) Such a weight lifted
    Becka Finesmith: Hello Corvuscorva
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: how are you Corvi?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: assignment?
    Becka Finesmith: Uni assignment
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm fine, how are you, Gaya?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: well ty ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: do you have more to do Becka?
    Becka Finesmith: oh yes - This is the second of 8 then an exam
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Becka Finesmith: I just finished last years course. I get the results in December
    Gaya Ethaniel: at least you've got some time until the next deadline hits I suppose ^^
    Becka Finesmith: 3 weeks !
    Becka Finesmith: I have a book to read before then. This one is a lot more hectic then I expected
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Susi!
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... what is the subject you study? is it physics?
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Susi Alcott: Hi cor
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Susi
    Becka Finesmith: Yes Gaya - It's Physics
    Susi Alcott: Hi Becka
    Susi Alcott: hi gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: how are you Susi?
    Susi Alcott: fine
    Susi Alcott: how r U ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: getting better with this flu ty ^^
    Susi Alcott: good to hear
    Becka Finesmith: This fountain is so peaceful

    As a dutiful guardian on call as ever, I try to steer the conversation onto 9-sec and PaB topics.

    Susi Alcott: I interrupted something urgent?
    Gaya Ethaniel: no we just started really
    Susi Alcott: ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: do you have something you want to discuss in particular Susi?
    Susi Alcott: no
    Gaya Ethaniel is being a good guardian on call
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Gaya
    Faenik: why not?
    Gaya Ethaniel: can I suppose you employ a scientific approach to things in life Becka?
    Becka Finesmith: I like to think so but not always
    Becka Finesmith: In the past, I've been led too much by emotions when a logical approach would have been better
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Becka Finesmith: I'm very sensitive to people’s emotions
    Becka Finesmith: at least I think so, I always get it wrong though
    Becka Finesmith: if I approached in a logical way, I would get it right more often but would I lose some empathy?
    Gaya Ethaniel: would it be possible to deploy two or more different approaches at the same time?
    Becka Finesmith: IN some situations, when everything is crashing around you, you just simply react I guess
    Becka Finesmith: a step back would be a start :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Becka Finesmith: or to train yourself to have a different reaction

    Someone steals Corvi away…

    Susi Alcott: how can everything crash around one ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: one feels that way at times I guess
    Becka Finesmith: INteresting question Susi. What do you mean? I can explain with an example if you like?
    Susi Alcott: pls do
    Becka Finesmith: OK. for example.....
    Faenik: could be
    Becka Finesmith: My Daughter has screaming episodes as part of her epilepsy
    Becka Finesmith: I know they are unintentional and she can't help it
    Becka Finesmith: But I get upset about it rather then dealing with it logically
    Gaya Ethaniel: must be difficult Becka...
    Becka Finesmith: the difference is the difference between getting upset at seeing her like that or just rationalising it in your head. You never know when it will happen
    Corvuscorva Nightfire quietly excuses herself, as she is being called.
    Becka Finesmith: I feel really upset for her when it happens.
    Gaya Ethaniel: may I suggest that feeling upset at 'screaming' is natural?
    Gaya Ethaniel: (perhaps more upsetting in your circumstances)
    Becka Finesmith: of course - It is. But under these circumstances, it has no benefits
    Becka Finesmith: I would rather approach that event without emotion
    Susi Alcott: so what is that has benefits
    Becka Finesmith: Having an emotional response has no benefit
     Gaya Ethaniel: mm...
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders
    Susi Alcott: what do U exactly do when this happens ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: what I meant by 'natural' was that one cannot help being upset at 'screaming'
    Susi Alcott: why?
    Becka Finesmith: I sit and hold her hand. As the volume increases it starts to set of this emotional response. Sometimes we mutually cry. Then it's all over.
    Susi Alcott: does the cry ease?
    Becka Finesmith: Exactly Gaya. I agree. But it would be nice to be able to suppress the response under these circumstances
    Becka Finesmith: The screaming just suddenly ceases but then she gets upset because it has happened. Do you know what Tourettes Syndrome is?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I know Becka what you are trying to do... but in my case, suppressing emotions (esp reactionary ones) hasn't been helpful
    Becka Finesmith nods@Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. I am familiar with that disorder. A close family member has it
    Becka Finesmith: that's the thing isn't it - it must come out at some point
    Susi Alcott: is it worse when she is upset or when she's screaming?
    Becka Finesmith: ok - Well, my Daughter doesn't have that but these episodes are similar in that she has no control
    Gaya Ethaniel nods I understand
    Becka Finesmith: Susi - That's a very good question but I'm not sure I can answer that. It all blends into one thing after the event so I can't separate them
    Gaya Ethaniel: for me when ticks start, I see that it upsets/irritates me
    Faenik: could be
    Susi Alcott: do you understand why I made that question?
    Gaya Ethaniel: but I've been learning to respond better without letting these emotions affecting me so much
    Becka Finesmith: Yes Susi
    Susi Alcott: ty
    Becka Finesmith: Is it feelings for myself or for her
    Susi Alcott: no
    Becka Finesmith: oh - then I don't :(
    Susi Alcott: I repeat my this question; does the cry help
    Becka Finesmith: Ahh - Yes. It releases the tension but it does make me sleepy
    Susi Alcott: so; that it makes U sleepi is another thing
    Susi Alcott: but the answer to the question is 'yes'
    Susi Alcott: is it big ‘yes’?
    Becka Finesmith: it is
    Susi Alcott: do You now understand why I make questions?
    Becka Finesmith: I think so. Perhaps nothing needs changing.
    Susi Alcott: it was a question of all the crash around

    For my own situation, it is ‘acceptance’ that has been at the root but it seems Becka is dealing with slightly different issues with her daughter’s condition.

    Gaya Ethaniel: there is something I'm not quite clear Becka
    Becka Finesmith: yes Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: when you get upsets at these screaming episodes, is it the screaming itself that upsets you (as in natural reaction) or the situation that upsets you?
    Faenik: ah :)
    Becka Finesmith: I think it's seeing her with this lack of control that upsets me but now we are talking about it (I haven't done that before), maybe I haven't really ever analysed why because I'm a little unsure of the root
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok I can only speak from my experience
    Gaya Ethaniel: for me, more I accepted that ticks have to come out (actually positive that they do), less upset I got
    Gaya Ethaniel: I struggled a while to accept that it can't be otherwise
    Becka Finesmith: I understand. Do you mean your own ticks or your family Member?
    Gaya Ethaniel: my family member
    Becka Finesmith: ok - So you are in a similar position. Are you close?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Becka Finesmith: OK - So similar emotions then
    Gaya Ethaniel: but the 'natural' reaction of being upset
    Becka Finesmith: And now what do you do when they happen?
    Gaya Ethaniel: that's separate thing I had to deal with
    Gaya Ethaniel: first may I suggest you do a 9 sec stop when you see yourself upset on the onset off the episode
    Gaya Ethaniel: it would force you to take a break/step back from the situation so to speak

    As I listen to Becka more, I hear my inner judge start telling me how useless I am in comparison to someone like Becka. I listen to him carefully and when he finishes I say “thank you for sharing your opinions. I will consider them after the session.”

    Susi Alcott: may I ask something more ?
    Becka Finesmith: of course
    Becka Finesmith: (Good advice Gaya)
    Susi Alcott: U told to hold her hand
    Susi Alcott: is she too big to take and hug ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: well start with that Becka ^^ one thing at a time. we can talk more once you've tried this perhaps
    Becka Finesmith: So we hug all the time
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Becka Finesmith: She is 21 but also has Downs Syndrome - Hugging isn't a problem.
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm amazed you manage to study also ^^
    Susi Alcott: can U beck tell what is the main reason that U avoid the cry ?
    Becka Finesmith: @Gaya - And I have a full time job! Luckily, they let me work from home a lot.
    Gaya Ethaniel 's jaw drops
    Becka Finesmith: @Susi I don't want her to think I'm upset with her
    Susi Alcott: even the cry do help ?
    Faenik: could be
    Susi Alcott: is not the screaming that is the crisis ?
    Becka Finesmith: Yes - It helps a lot at the end but not whilst it is happening
    Becka Finesmith: yes - exactly Susi
    Susi Alcott: to intelligent person
    Susi Alcott: that is often very difficult to depart different things happening so together
    Becka Finesmith: Seperating everything that happens in those periods is difficult
    Susi Alcott: but you did much that now
    Faenik: could be
    Becka Finesmith: Yes. Talking about it helps to separate things out
    Susi Alcott: always
    Becka Finesmith: Thank you :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_

    For a weeks or so, my focus has been on ‘focusing’ to avoid ‘overloads’ and this obviously shows… for Becka, ‘shutting down’ is not an option as I do sometimes.

    Gaya Ethaniel: I have found 'focusing' very helpful Becka when feeling overwhelmed
    Becka Finesmith: TY Susi
    Susi Alcott: you are welcome Becka
    Gaya Ethaniel: would it be correct for me to think that you try to be helpful to your daughter while trying to be calm yourself and so on?
    Becka Finesmith: Yes. I always try and focus on my breathing when it happens but that's a practice I haven't mastered in the heat of the moment
    Becka Finesmith: It's one of those things you can't walk away from
    Becka Finesmith: yes Gaya. Although I think she is quite oblivious to what is happening around her when it happens
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: (so she won't necessarily notice much if you cry or no)
    Gaya Ethaniel: what I mean is
    Becka Finesmith: she does because that usually doesn't happen until she starts to come out of it. A kind of release mechanism I guess
    Gaya Ethaniel: after taking 9 sec (say taking a deep breath and focus here), would it be possible to focus on your daughter's needs only? and not worry about how you're, ie crying
    Gaya Ethaniel: more you focus on your daughter, you would become naturally calmer
    Becka Finesmith: That would be something I would have to try.
    Gaya Ethaniel: crying because you feel for your daughter is natural and helpful for you so it'd help to accept this and just not worry about it during the episode perhaps?
    Becka Finesmith: I think you are right. She knows I'm not angry with her or anything.
    Gaya Ethaniel: for myself... crying mainly happened because I felt helpless
    Gaya Ethaniel: more I focus on comforting and supporting, calmer I got with the acceptance of the whole situation
    Gaya Ethaniel: the trick was for me to step back initially not to get overwhelmed
    Gaya Ethaniel: so I suggested doing a 9 sec at the onset
    Faenik: indeed?
    Gaya Ethaniel: (well... that was before PaB so I did a short breathing exercise instead)
    Becka Finesmith: You are probably right about the helplessness Gaya. I will try that :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: but you must be so proud of yourself in a way... to accept your daughter and manage all RL.
    Becka Finesmith: This has been really helpful :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: easier said than done. I am not always succeeding myself
    Becka Finesmith: I never think about it like that. I must do from now on

    The session slowly draws to a close.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Becka... I think you're amazing. not sure if I can manage what you do to be honest
    Gaya Ethaniel: give yourself some pat on your back sometimes ^^
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: and someone's here 4 times a day to talk to ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel promises that she would listen more next time
    Becka Finesmith: I'm really happy for what you have said. Thank you :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: pleasure Becka. glad it helped somehow ^_^
    Gaya Ethaniel: hope we can talk more next time how 9 sec helps
    Becka Finesmith: it did. Exactly. I will try over the weekend and see where it takes me
    Gaya Ethaniel: please tell us more
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah sorry you will
    Becka Finesmith: I just realised what Faenik is :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Susi Alcott: sry I also must go again
    Gaya Ethaniel: look forward to talking to you again next week then Becka
    Gaya Ethaniel: same here must attend RL
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Becka Finesmith: Bye Susi and thank you
    Becka Finesmith: Bye everyone :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: take care Becka and see you soon again ^^
    Becka Finesmith: yes. See you next week :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sure I'd be around PaB before then too
    Gaya Ethaniel waves

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