2008.11.18 13:00 - Who can you trust?

    Table of contents
    No headers

     The Guardian on Duty was genesis Zhangsun, the comments below are hers.


    genesis Zhangsun: Hi all
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Becka
    Wol Euler: hello becka, gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Wol and Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
    Wol Euler: hello fael
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Fael!
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Adelene!
    Wol Euler: ade! hello
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Fael
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Threedee
    Adelene Dawner: Hullo!
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adele :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: threedee, hi
    Fael Illyar: Hi Three :)
    Adelene Dawner waits for everyone to rez so she sees what options she has as far as laps :)
    Wol Euler grins
    Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Pema :0
    genesis Zhangsun: *:)
    Pema Pera: Hi All !
    Wol Euler chuckles at the wrestling lions

     I guess I appeared most attractive, or perhaps the first to rez for Adelene and she came over, placing herself over my lap.  Glad Gen has some strong legs!

    genesis Zhangsun: AHH please don't crush me
    Wol Euler: hello pema
    Pema Pera: (sorry, slow connection with cell phone . . . .)
    Adelene Dawner chuckles.
    genesis Zhangsun: I am getting mauled over here

    Before I knew it both Threedee and Adelene had sandwiched me between them and I was surrounded by a wall of fur on both sides :) 

    genesis Zhangsun: oh now its nice and warm
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    genesis Zhangsun: was Pema with us via cell phone?
    Wol Euler: so he said ...
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Bigj
    genesis Zhangsun: and Naoko
    Fael Illyar: Hello Bigj
    BigJ Foxtrot: hey how are you?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Naoko :)
    Naoko Oanomochi: Greetings :D
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi filks
    Threedee Shepherd: *folks
    Wol Euler: hello naoko, nice to see you again
    genesis Zhangsun: welccome
    Naoko Oanomochi: Likewise Wol *smiles*
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles at her sister
    Naoko Oanomochi smiles back
    Gaya Ethaniel: =^.^=
    genesis Zhangsun: So any topics up for discussion?
    Threedee Shepherd: trust??
    Adelene Dawner: oo, good one.
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Naoko Oanomochi strokes the white lion
    genesis Zhangsun: care to elaborate?

     I agreed it was an interesting topic and I wondered what the inspiration was behind it.

    Threedee Shepherd purrs
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. Yes a good topic
    Threedee Shepherd: We are very open here. Trusting, one could say. It that trust something we have in the others listening, and/or in ourselves speaking?
    Wol Euler: hi corvi
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Corvi
    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Corvi. :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
    Naoko Oanomochi: Greetings Corvi
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all!!! Good to see you.
    genesis Zhangsun: hows the water?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm staying out of it, this time.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Wol Euler: heh
    genesis Zhangsun: Ok so re trust what do you think Three
    genesis Zhangsun: is it and/or
    genesis Zhangsun: wb Pema
    Fael Illyar: wb Pema
    Wol Euler: wb pema
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Pema
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Pema Pera grumbles at tantalizingly slow internet connection . . . .
    genesis Zhangsun: I would say to what you said Three that it is both
    Threedee Shepherd: functionally it is usually and/or. It is nice be hard to be in the place where I trust that *I* can deal with it if someone else says something critical or demeaning, even if unintended
    Threedee Shepherd: *nice but hard
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Wol Euler: I think it has to be both to be really "trust".
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Moon!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Moon Fargis: whoow fullhouse
    Fael Illyar: Hi Moon :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: What does it take to be in a place where you can trust that, Three?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire tries to think of how she could get to that place
    Naoko Oanomochi: Greetuings Moon
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Wol Euler: hello moon
    Adelene Dawner purrs at Moon.
    Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz
    Threedee Shepherd: Growing up: Although the German saying (translated) applies: Too soon old, Too late smart.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Moon and tosses him a lolli.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oook
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi Susi
    Wol Euler: hello susi
    genesis Zhangsun: yes and how does trust work in the virtual space?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Susi :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Susi
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    genesis Zhangsun: is the same as in RL?
    Moon Fargis: ^_^ *Nahm Nahm Nahm!* ^_^
    Susi Alcott: hi gensis
    Susi Alcott: hi all
    Threedee Shepherd: I think we have touched on this in a previous session that might be found for searching for "I don't give a shit" ^.^
    genesis Zhangsun: ?

    Just had to make sure I heard correctly...I was aware that Threedee could be blunt but ouch! 

    Threedee Shepherd: Excuse me, very explicitely for the present hour, this IS my RL
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Three...who is being very.....blunt.
    Gaya Ethaniel: 'tis ok Threedee
    Fael Illyar: Yep, every moment spent in SL, is your RL :)
    Naoko Oanomochi giggles and agrees with Three
    Adelene Dawner chuckles and whispers to Three: I am *such* a bad influence, hmm?

     Yes Adelene bad influence ;)

    Corvuscorva Nightfire shakes her head...and thinks about bluntness and it's value.
    Threedee Shepherd: yup
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Faenik: ah :)
    genesis Zhangsun: well thats an interesting way to "build trust" by saying you don't give a shit
    Threedee Shepherd: well, I consider that when I refer to myself, it is ok to be blunt ^.^
    Moon Fargis: maybe give it candy
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think...that I need to build in a little more bluntness.
    Susi Alcott: ty Moon
    Fael Illyar: does this bluntness equal straight to the point?
    Threedee Shepherd: That is a cute way of restating the Buddhist concept that desire leads to suffering
    Wol Euler: ah
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..my thought is..I'd like to be more straight to the point.
    Wol Euler: thank you for the footnotes :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods....it is indeed.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you Threedee for your trust in me to be yourself incl being blunt as you are ^^
    Threedee Shepherd: :)
    Becka Finesmith: Halllooooo
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Threedee Shepherd: I think it can be restated that I am old enough not to know better.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Fael.

    At this point Moon began distributing some "rainbow cupcakes," and the script joined in on our conversation. Yum, yum. 

    Becka Finesmith enjoys the warm, straight from the oven Rainbow Cupcake, yummy !
    Becka Finesmith: Mmmm Thank you Moon.
    Fael Illyar didn't like being at the edge, so she moved.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Becka Finesmith takes another bite of the Rainbow Cupcake.
    Wol Euler: cuddle as being :)
    Threedee Shepherd: others have more to say about trust, from any point of view?
    Becka Finesmith takes the last nibble of the Rainbow Cupcake and wipes away any crumbs from their lips.
    Moon Fargis gave you Rainbow Cupcake.
    Wol Euler: "It's difficult but getting easier"
    Gaya Ethaniel: I have recently revised my view on trust...
    genesis Zhangsun enjoys the warm, straight from the oven Rainbow Cupcake, yummy !
    Wol Euler tickles moon
    Moon Fargis giggles
    genesis Zhangsun takes another bite of the Rainbow Cupcake.
    Wol Euler: ty :)
    Wol Euler enjoys the warm, straight from the oven Rainbow Cupcake, yummy !
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: How, Gaya?
    Susi Alcott: trust is a choice
    Gaya Ethaniel: Before I was looking for something that doesn't exist... 'perfect' trust but we come with failings and make mistakes at times
    Fael Illyar: Hi Solo :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Solobill!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...
    Wol Euler: hello solo
    Naoko Oanomochi: Greetings
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Bill.
    genesis Zhangsun takes the last nibble of the Rainbow Cupcake and wipes away any crumbs from their lips.
    Susi Alcott: hi solo
    Solobill Laville: Hi, all!
    Wol Euler takes another bite of the Rainbow Cupcake.
    Naoko Oanomochi petpets Moon
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Naoko Oanomochi: Ohh thank you:D
    Gaya Ethaniel: So I've decided to trust myself as long as I do my best and apply same to others
    Wol Euler takes the last nibble of the Rainbow Cupcake and wipes away any crumbs from their lips.
    Moon Fargis: ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Rather than feel down when such mistakes happen
    Faenik loves wells!
    Fael Illyar: Yes, trust is a choice to accept what follows, whatever it may be.
    Faenik giggles. that tickles.
    Faenik giggles. that tickles.
    Fael Illyar enjoys the warm, straight from the oven Rainbow Cupcake, yummy !
    Faenik giggles. that tickles.
    Fael Illyar scratches Moon behind the ear.
    Faenik: ^^
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz
    Fael Illyar takes another bite of the Rainbow Cupcake.
    Fael Illyar takes the last nibble of the Rainbow Cupcake and wipes away any crumbs from their lips.
    Solobill Laville enjoys the warm, straight from the oven Rainbow Cupcake, yummy !
    Moon Fargis giggles
    Solobill Laville takes another bite of the Rainbow Cupcake.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: You started by talking about whether one can trust to speak or to listen.
    Solobill Laville: (thx, Moon)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was thinking about who I trust to speak to and why.
    Solobill Laville takes the last nibble of the Rainbow Cupcake and wipes away any crumbs from their lips.
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, and why we do not trust everyone?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and realizing that I trust to speak to those who DO listen..
    Susi Alcott: essential
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that some are better at not guiding...

    I completely agree with Corvi...I tend to distrust the counsel of a friend when it involves telling me how they are going to help me "fix" it and then launch into a "strategy" without spending much time listening.

    Moon Fargis nods
    Fael Illyar: Well, we naturally prefer getting what we want.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: more skilled at it.
    Gaya Ethaniel enjoys the warm, straight from the oven Rainbow Cupcake, yummy !
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: allowing me to grow as I will.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty Moon ^^
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe offering interesting ideas *smiles at Fael*
    Fael Illyar: So, to get what we want, we pick and choose who we trust.
    Gaya Ethaniel takes another bite of the Rainbow Cupcake.
    Adelene Dawner: like not-doing, Corvi?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but not judging and not trying to make me go in a direction.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Adelene.;
    Threedee Shepherd: There is a saying I once heard: "I can plant the seed, I can fertilize and water,but I can't make the plants grow."
    Gaya Ethaniel takes the last nibble of the Rainbow Cupcake and wipes away any crumbs from their lips.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Becka Finesmith: But is trust something we give freely or grant to those we feel worthy of it?
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ to that threedee
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Three.
    Susi Alcott: or is it the choice based on 'pass' or the choice based on heart
    Susi Alcott: meaning that if one let's the pass desappointments to effect
    Threedee Shepherd: 'pass" ??? I miss the point
    Fael Illyar: past
    Susi Alcott: that may be bad choice meeting the new person
    Moon Fargis: trust is sadly like a contact lense, once you losse it its hard to get it back, so take care of the trust others gave you ans apreciate it
    Wol Euler: !
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Naoko Oanomochi giggles at the phrase-mind if I pinch that...it seems modern and fitting
    Susi Alcott: is there something for the person oneself to do that the other person do trust ?
    Fael Illyar: and also, trust tends to be limited to certain kinds of things with each person.
    Faenik: ah :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yes, Susi...there are things people do that add to trust for me.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: at least trust to talk.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It helps if they can set aside their own issues...sometimes what I need to talk about hits a nerve...is frightening...reminds them of something else.
    Moon Fargis: so then.... someone wants to create a golden sentence of triust ?:)
    Moon Fargis: trust
    Susi Alcott: you mean that they trust to talk to U or U trust to talk them ?
    Wol Euler: oh yes, people's fear and pain buttons get pushed easily and surprisingly in conversation
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: if it's too hard for them...I don't want to talk aobut it. Which can be ok..I've lots of people to talk to.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and sometimes I trust one to talk about one thing, and another to talk about something else.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm not sure if or why or how people trust me to talk to...though some do.
    Susi Alcott: so would it be in the end, that it is not a question if we trust to the other person, but if we trust to ourself J?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Lots of people to talk to and different things to talk with different people... how do you remember all this Corvi?
    Solobill Laville: to moon: Trust is the ore from which the currency of social exchange is minted
    Corvuscorva Nightfire glances at Gaya...who knows..I am, after all, quite amess.
    Threedee Shepherd: Corvi, I agree we need to make loving allowances for others" frailties (buttons).
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm... not a mess... no
    Susi Alcott: cor, can U take that it can be trust also to be in silence ?
    Susi Alcott: or do you take that only to speak is to trust ?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire considers...can you elaborate on the question?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I have found as with compassion, trust starts from oneself, within
    Threedee Shepherd: Solo, is it appropriate to consider different levels or types of social exchange, and trust?
    Faenik: indeed?
    Solobill Laville: But trust is inherently riskier than compassion, Gaya, as it supposes something to lose
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes love and trust are fragile

     I wondered if this was really true...does trust presuppose something to lose.  People talk about building trust, gaining someone's trust...and yet at the same time if I really think about I think the people whom I consider to have "gained" my trust...I trusted right from the beginning and very rare to think of a person that I didn't trust at all when I met then who then later "gained my trust."

    Susi Alcott: as there are also many events that ppl can feel so much trust that they do not need to use words
    Gaya Ethaniel: (in that sense)
    Threedee Shepherd: Compassion does have something to lose if personal ego is involved, I think
    Solobill Laville: Off the cuff I don't think so, Three, what types of levels were you thinking?
    Fael Illyar: Can that be called Compassion then, Three?
    Threedee Shepherd: "contract law"
    Susi Alcott: did you cor now understand my question ?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..thinking
    Moon Fargis: what a lag
    Threedee Shepherd: Well, it might be nice to be enlightened, but until then I doubt I or anyone can be totally altruistic.
    Wol Euler muses. "Authenticity" is a terribly new-age word, but it is central to the reason I trust people (when I think of examples in my life)
    Solobill Laville: contract law may be a bit less "social contract" and more asset/ownership contract, to my mind at least (at the moment)
    Solobill Laville: (wow there's a lot of threads...) :)
    Wol Euler doesn't envy the GoC
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Threedee Shepherd: Perhaps, Solo, but I am more likely to lend you $100 (on faith) than $100,000.
    Moon Fargis: solo, take it !:)
    Solobill Laville: but a social contract doesn't presuppose a monetary of asset transaction
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Solobill Laville: oh, yeah, can I have the $100?

     Be careful what you wish for Solobill or you might actually get it!

    Solobill Laville: *or asset
    Gaya Ethaniel prefers 'doing one's best' than 'being enlightened'
    Solobill Laville: ha!!!
    Wol Euler: agreed, it is our agreement to behave "decently" to each other in the first place. What we then _do_ arises out of that
    Solobill Laville: (Three just paid me L$100)
    Wol Euler laughs
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ me too me too
    Gaya Ethaniel: a joke...
    Solobill Laville: Susi....(just paid me $100 too)
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles. Thanks for $100 Fael
    Moon Fargis: solo: ahh then 29900L$ left :)
    Wol Euler: drinks are on you then, bill?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles..don't tell!
    Threedee Shepherd: I just received two L$100
    Solobill Laville: too funny...
    Wol Euler: hehehehe
    Susi Alcott: even more because solo gave that back
    Threedee Shepherd: Gee did someone once say, Gien and you shall receive...."
    Moon Fargis: xlexchange gets envy
    Moon Fargis: sl
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks this is fun...
    Wol Euler nods. that's exactly how it works, threedee
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks trust also goes around...
    Threedee Shepherd: and another L$100
    Susi Alcott: o.k. solo, I give up
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. Thank you Adele
    Naoko Oanomochi looks confused
    Threedee Shepherd: Gee, perhaps we should have a PaB donation box?
    Naoko Oanomochi: Thank you Corvi
    Solobill Laville smiles at Susi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Gaya
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Naoko Oanomochi is confused at the money thing
    Naoko Oanomochi: Thanks Wol
    Wol Euler smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Susi Alcott: ment for fun
    Fael Illyar: sounds like L$100 flying around :)
    Becka Finesmith: I just invested it and earned 6% ;)
    Fael Illyar notes with interest that L$1 is enough to keep her from buying things unless she really like them.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no fair!!!!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Solobill Laville: Good investment these days...
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles at Wol
    Wol Euler: actually, I had an example of this in RL the other morning,
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you did?
    Fael Illyar: and that I just gave away L$100 expecting nothing for it :P
    Faenik: could be
    Threedee Shepherd: I will need to find a worthy cause to donate all this money too :)
    Wol Euler: I arrived at the cash register of the local grocery store without my wallet.
    Wol Euler: rather than grumbling at the 3.25 I didn't have, the owner GAVE ME 6.75 and said "there, you owe us a tenner"

    Talk about "social currency" :) 

    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Naoko Oanomochi: Wow, that is very nice:D
    Solobill Laville: That is a smart business owner
    Threedee Shepherd: nice
    Wol Euler: right!
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Would shop there more often.'
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..
    Wol Euler: well, I hve been shopping there every other day for 15 years :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's a good business model.
    Wol Euler: I'm a good risk.
    Solobill Laville: Moon kindly suggests a worthy cause...
    Wol Euler: but still ...

    Another round of donations started with Moon's hikari "kettle/pot?" sorry clueless 

    Wol Euler: oh yse! good idea.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Three.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. The owner must have been kind also, not just being smart perhaps
    Moon Fargis: _/!\_ *Moon fargis* thanks everyone who keeps up the health of hikari
    Solobill Laville: Yes, I think both Gaya
    Threedee Shepherd: Interesting we found a *Playful* way to make trust palpable ^.^
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Solobill Laville: yes!
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Solobill Laville: That would be an intereseting experiment to just keep handing around the til...adding money as it goes
    Threedee Shepherd: That's what they do in certain churches
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty Moon
    Moon Fargis: giving coockies for money?
    Naoko Oanomochi: ty for de cookie:D
    Wol Euler smiles and wipes her lips
    Wol Euler: and hovers
    Solobill Laville: Right, but in SL, the money is in all intents yours, that is a good measure of trust indeed :)
    Becka Finesmith: are we trusting moon by eating these cookies?
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    genesis Zhangsun: Well I must be off
    Wol Euler: we are drinking the koolaid.
    genesis Zhangsun: goodbye everyone
    Solobill Laville: Bye, GEn
    genesis Zhangsun: nice to see such a full house

    Indeed this was the most attended meeting I think I have ever been too and what a lovely treat to see so many newcomers and oldschoolers :) 

    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Wol Euler: bye gen, enjoy the evening
    Threedee Shepherd: bye
    Gaya Ethaniel: I must go also
    Fael Illyar: see you later Gen :)
    genesis Zhangsun: There is an event at the Kira Cafe
    Becka Finesmith: Bye Genesis. I must be going to.
    genesis Zhangsun: if anyone is interested
    Naoko Oanomochi: Bye Gen and Gaya
    genesis Zhangsun: Bye All
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day/night everyone ^^
    Wol Euler: what's on?
    Naoko Oanomochi: Bye Becka
    Wol Euler: bye gaya, bye becka
    genesis Zhangsun: A Kira Alumni giving a talk
    genesis Zhangsun: about science in context
    Solobill Laville: In English?
    Susi Alcott: see you Becka
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye Becka.
    genesis Zhangsun: English
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Wol Euler: yay
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry Adelene I am going to have to get up :)
    Solobill Laville: Science has context, WHAT??? ;)
    Fael Illyar somehow can't keep track of who's going.
    Susi Alcott: see you gen
    genesis Zhangsun: putting science in context ;)
    genesis Zhangsun: See you Susi
    Wol Euler: ah
    Naoko Oanomochi: Bye all who leave
    Becka Finesmith: I might go listen Genesis. Thanks for the heads up :)
    Becka Finesmith: Bye everyone
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Becka
    Fael Illyar: See you later, who's going :)
    Solobill Laville: BYe, all, I'm off too.
    Wol Euler: bye solo, bye fael

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core