2008.12.04 01:00 - The Self-imposed Limits

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fael Illyar. The comments are by Fael.

    I spent a few minutes alone at the playgoda before Tarmel appeared. First some mundane things.

    Tarmel Udimo: hi fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Tarmel :)
    Fael Illyar: How are you today?
    Tarmel Udimo: great
    Tarmel Udimo: how about you?
    Fael Illyar: I'm pretty good today :)
    Tarmel Udimo: pema mentioned I can find instructions on the wiki?
    Fael Illyar: you mean about how to do the 9 seconds?
    Tarmel Udimo: no about being a guardian when I end up doing that...
    Fael Illyar: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Informatio...sting_Tutorial
    Fael Illyar: is this what you were looking for?
    Fael Illyar: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Informatio...sting_Meetings
    Fael Illyar: or this one
    Tarmel Udimo: yes ta - its being saved in the log isn't it
    Tarmel Udimo: the web address I mean
    Fael Illyar: It is but who knows how long it'll take me to get it up ;)
    Tarmel Udimo: I think I'm saving them
    Tarmel Udimo: or they seem to be there when i look on my harddrive
    Tarmel Udimo: so no rush
    Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, those too
    Tarmel Udimo: why are you called legend of light :)
    Fael Illyar uses them too little to remember that they're logs too, apparently.
    Fael Illyar: it's a group tag.
    Fael Illyar: some places you need to wear the group tag to be able to do stuff :)
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhhh
    Tarmel Udimo: ohh
    Tarmel Udimo: so how do i change mine so I don't always have my title showing
    Fael Illyar: you need to activate another group or the no group part
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Fael Illyar: so, you need to open the groups dialog to do that
    Tarmel Udimo: like that
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Fael Illyar: like?
    Tarmel Udimo: ohh i just truned it off and on...
    Fael Illyar: Ah, I looked elsewhere for a moment so missed it :)
    Tarmel Udimo: a bit like RL
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Then move to talking about PaB related things.
    Tarmel Udimo: did you read the article aboit awareness from Ken.... forgot last name
    Tarmel Udimo: *about
    Fael Illyar: I did I think. I tend to remember what articles are about, not who wrote them though :)
    Tarmel Udimo: I'm like that too re names :) I thought it was very good
    Fael Illyar: It was, just didn't leave a very concrete impression :)
    Fael Illyar: although, I guess it's difficult to have concrete impression from these subjects :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm
    Tarmel Udimo: and yet
    Tarmel Udimo: it strikes a cord - a couple of them and I think actually resonates
    Tarmel Udimo: on subtle levels without us even knowing that its happening
    Fael Illyar: Oh, yes, it resonated a lot :)
    Corvi arrives.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Fael, Tarmel.
    Fael Illyar: but yes, it's interesting how easy it's to miss that sort of resonance.

    Thinking further, it's likely we don't miss the resonance but it's drowned by fear it triggers in us.

    Fael Illyar: (talking about the article about Awareness Being and Commitment Being)
    Tarmel Udimo: and your thoughts on starting at the 'end'
    Fael Illyar: yes, well, except that there's no 'end' really :)
    Tarmel Udimo: yessss
    Tarmel Udimo: so no beginning just being
    Tarmel Udimo: I think its tricky because if one has had training ie been doing meditation then
    Tarmel Udimo: the whole concept is perhaps easier to digest and use
    Tarmel Udimo: but I realise that this is what PAb is all about to see if you need lessons of nay kind
    Tarmel Udimo: *any
    Fael Illyar: see if you need lessons ...
    Fael Illyar: well, suppose we all could use a few :)
    Tarmel Udimo: well if the point is to do away with a formal approach
    Tarmel Udimo: and just begin where one is
    Tarmel Udimo: and through the exploration of the 9 secs develop an understanding then this is without lessons, just having expereinces
    Tarmel Udimo: its really more of a question
    Fael Illyar: Well, you could say life is, as a whole, one big lesson :)
    Tarmel Udimo: yep that's fo sure
    Tarmel Udimo: *for
    Fael Illyar: kind of feels reversed that once you start getting somewhere, it ends :)
    Fael Illyar: although, what do I know if that's an end, really :P
    Tarmel Udimo: yeah that's right we don't 'know'
    Tarmel Udimo: and maybe its a beginning
    Fael Illyar: That's the main point in this piece of text in my profile's first life section
    Fael Illyar: Oh, SL is bugging a bit here?
    Flow disturbed for a moment with Tarmel's crash.
    Tarmel Udimo: yeah crashed
    Fael Illyar: [1:31] Fael Illyar: That's the main point in this piece of text in my profile's first life section
    Fael Illyar: this is probably a line you missed :)
    Tarmel Udimo: I was clicking on your profile when I crashed
    Fael Illyar: Oh well, it happens :)
    Tarmel Udimo: read yur 1st life
    Tarmel Udimo: what are all those pieces of info corvi
    Tarmel suddenly talks about Corvi ... still no idea what it was but it did bring her in to the conversation too :) Conversation moves to roleplaying for a bit.
    Fael Illyar blinks ... umm ... corvi?
    Tarmel Udimo: so where were we?
    Fael Illyar: I was talking about it ending, just when we start getting somewhere :)
    Fael Illyar: but then realized I don't actually know :)
    Fael Illyar: ah, phonecall
    Corvuscorva Nightfire looks to Tarmel...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sorry...I am not sure what you were asking about?
    Tarmel Udimo: no worries
    Tarmel Udimo: above your head it says Warps VO.o.17 etc I wandred what it meant
    Fael Illyar neither.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh!
    Tarmel Udimo: *wandered
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..I play in a role play sim where there is shooting and other violence...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: this records the "violence" done and healing...
    Tarmel Udimo: gee I really need my spell checker
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm a healer there.
    Fael Illyar: You can find all kinds of things in Second Life :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes that sounds fascinating
    Tarmel Udimo: how do you 'heal' in SL
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'd be delighted to show you sometime..the mechanics...but some of it is role play...like acting....in chat....
    Fael Illyar: Yes, you take a role and then do your best to act out like that person you're acting to be :)
    Corvi gives an example of what the acting might be.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire lays her hands on the vampires belly and chants "ominomomono pedia..." a wave of warmth enters the monsters tummy
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
    Fael Illyar grins at the "magic words".
    Tarmel Udimo: :) nice - so are you scripted to take on certain behaviors
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nothing so formal...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: more like improvisational theater.
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh
    Fael Illyar: except, of course, that everyone present is participating :)
    Fael Illyar: so the audience and actors are one and the same :)
    Tarmel Udimo: I was thinking about game play today and thought wouldn't it be cool if in taking
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...and that the script is readable after by a wider audience.
    Tarmel Udimo: on a character/role - you could only behave in a certain programmed way
    Tarmel Udimo: and then part of the game play is to figure out how to evolve the character
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Tarmel Udimo: oh that sounds good
    Fael Illyar: That sounds a bit different though :)
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: it sort of an experimental way of using game play to reconise traits
    Tarmel Udimo: *recognise
    Tarmel Udimo: its kind of what you're doing but
    Tarmel Udimo: different
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..it can be similar, I think.
    Tarmel Udimo: so to progress to the next level and gain greater skill and flexibility the player needs to actually
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: if the two typists agree on a script ahead....
    Fael Illyar: The difference being that in one you choose yourself what your character is and in the second, you deal with limitations from elsewhere
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: its a replica of what in fact we're doing in life
    And then a shift back to our own minds from roleplay selves.
    Tarmel Udimo: except the limitations in RL are of course self imposed
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Fael Illyar: mostly, I suppose :)
    Fael Illyar: although, not so sure all of it is.
    Tarmel Udimo: we continuosly make choices based on the fikters through which we see the world
    Tarmel Udimo: so on awaking or momentarily seeing we are free of those self imposed limitations but until then, I don;t think we have much control
    Tarmel Udimo: it gets subtler and subtler the way the mind can make us think that we filterless
    Fael Illyar: so, being asleep would mean not being aware of the self imposed limitations as being self imposed or that they're there.
    Tarmel Udimo: I think so
    Tarmel Udimo: I thinkwe get glimmers when the filters come off and we go - god how programmed am I
    Tarmel Udimo: this is on top of the old DNA, environment, nurture, nature argument
    Fael Illyar: Yes, we tend to impose limits on ourselves and then, not liking them but not being able to help but keep them, we add limits so we no longer see them.
    I had the feeling I was repeating myself but ... well, that's necessary too. Not everyone heard me the first time :)
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh very good way of explaining it
    Tarmel Udimo: smiles in fact grins
    Corvuscorva Nightfire looks to Fael and wipes her brow.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes that's why i think the 9 secs are a brillaint way of kind of seducing us into letting everything drop even if only for a few seconds
    I was in IM with Moon too and he asked me to give some candy around and greetings from him. So I did.
    Fael Illyar: (greetings from Moon)
    Tarmel Udimo: what is it?
    Tarmel Udimo: and thanks to moon
    Fael Illyar: candy :P
    Fael Illyar: well, SL candy
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Tarmel Udimo: thanks - any chocolate :)
    Tarmel Udimo: thanks fael
    Tarmel Udimo: will treasure :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Fael Illyar: but yes, dropping everything is how it begins.
    Tarmel Udimo: well said
    Fael Illyar: but then, you realize that you do need some limits and start working on from that.
    Fael Illyar: but the key is to know they're there.
    Fael Illyar: and be comfortable with them being there so you don't forget them again
    Tarmel Udimo: ah
    Tarmel Udimo: we will continue this dialogue again, its been good...
    Tarmel Udimo: must go and chill out aftre long day
    Fael Illyar: Sure, see you later Tarmel :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Tarmel.
    Tarmel Udimo: *after
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye Fael.
    Tarmel Udimo: yeah bye
    Fael Illyar: Ah, you're going too Corvi?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Our session ends there. From the sounds of it, to be continued.
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