2008.12.04 07:00 - Hungry and Calm Beasts

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    I think we set the new record for the number of individual av changes in a session today. - CH


    Crusty Goldshark: hi gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Crusty ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: What time is the orgy?
    Crusty Goldshark: . . . or am I in the wrong place again?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Tear ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi tear
    Tear Karu: hi
    Gaya Ethaniel: PaB session started just now Crusty at 7 am
    Crusty Goldshark: good news
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Tear Karu: or bad news ?hmm
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Adele ^^
    Adelene Dawner: hi all :)
    Tear Karu: whoa
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Adelene
    Crusty Goldshark: HCal
    Gaya Ethaniel glances warmly at Adele ^___^
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Adele ^^
    Adelene Dawner: hi all :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Adelene
    Tear Karu: whoa
    Crusty Goldshark: HCal
    Gaya Ethaniel glances warmly at Adele ^___^
    Caledonia Heron: hey there :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Cal . . . sounds like a Muscle drink
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Cal ^^
    Caledonia Heron: rocky login :)
    Crusty Goldshark: :)
    Tear Karu: *meow meow*
    Caledonia Heron: sports drink
    Adelene Dawner giggles at Tear
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Tear Karu: brb
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Gaya Ethaniel gave you New Note.
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey stevenaia ^^
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Ade, Gaya, Caledonia
    Caledonia Heron: hey there :)



    stevenaia Michinaga: my session last night was... quite, thought I see what this hour brings
    Gaya Ethaniel looks up on wiki...
    Caledonia Heron: quiet?
    stevenaia Michinaga: only me
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Moon ^^
    Moon Fargis: ^^/
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Moon
    Caledonia Heron: hi Moon :)
    Tear Karu: he he
    Tear Karu: hi mon
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: who would like to start the discussion today? :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Tear ^^
    Tear Karu: ty
    Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Fael ^^
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Moon, Fael
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi fael
    Caledonia Heron: hi Fael :)
    Tear Karu: Hiii ^.-.^
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Wol :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Wol ^^
    stevenaia Michinaga: comparing large quiet group vs small quiet group
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Wol Euler: hello everyone!
    Caledonia Heron: hey Wol :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler: (formal greetings as soon as the world rezzes :)
    Fael Illyar ruffles Moon's furry head.
    Tear Karu: hi
    Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz
    Tear Karu: *meow meow*
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Faenik: ????^^
    Tear Karu: opps have fix that



    Caledonia Heron: yesterday we discussed spiritual experiences and delusions ... surreal experiences ... space/time events or rather no space/no time events
    Moon Fargis: *meow meow*
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Caledonia Heron: it turned out we had several aliens in the group :)
    Gaya Ethaniel looks around...
    Tear Karu: looks around for green men
    Crusty Goldshark: Some of our matter - the atoms we are comprised of was created in stars - we are all partly star people . . .
    Moon Fargis wonders who cal means
    Caledonia Heron: yikes, scary av Moon
    stevenaia Michinaga: RL arrives..
    Wol Euler reaches for her can of Raid.
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy the discussion
    Wol Euler: bey steven
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Caledonia Heron: yes I think so Crusty, stardust
    Caledonia Heron: gosh Moon, I am really distracted by that avatar :)
    Caledonia Heron: looks hungry :)
    Wol Euler: it seems to be consuming Tear.
    Moon Fargis: okok:)



    Crusty Goldshark: Also people think in different ways - kinestetically, visually, auditory and abstract and it is sometimes difficult for one type to understand the language of another . . .
    Moon Fargis: better turn back befor tear lifts off
    Tear Karu: lol
    Caledonia Heron: a good part of these discussions has been about how to share a meaningful vocabulary between us
    Crusty Goldshark: . . . so we can be very alien as personalities - but what dowe all share?
    Crusty Goldshark: do we
    Wol Euler is alone in the office, doing system management stuff, and may be intermittently AFK
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok Wol
    Caledonia Heron: there are core threads among us I think, the essence of our humaness, our being
    Faenik: indeed?
    Tear Karu: taps moons head softly
    Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz
    Crusty Goldshark: I would agree Cal but I think this component trancends the aspect of being human or evena person - it is a quality we share with animals, plants and perhaps matter itself ;)
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Tear Karu: eep
    Adelene Dawner rumbles at Fael.
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I agree ... my stated vocabulary now limited to humans and I think we can get very molecular about it
    Caledonia Heron: Moon, I can't keep a train of thought with all your wiggy av changes, a little slack please?
    Fael Illyar makes a weak sound at Adele.
    Crusty Goldshark: Well I feel we can commincate emotionally to our surroundings and non verballyto animals . . .
    Caledonia Heron: maybe Moon and Tear could pop over to the sandbox?
    Adelene Dawner: Can we stop with the *stuff*, guys?
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Moon Fargis: ok
    Tear Karu: hmmp girl thank you



    Crusty Goldshark: People also communicate by presentation and appearance . . .
    Caledonia Heron: I'm about to communicate very emotionally in a minute if things don't calm down :)
    Caledonia Heron: yes, messages going in and out on all kinds of levels Crusty
    Tear Karu: hug's moonright outa the blue
    Crusty Goldshark: Exactly. I often think of everything as an expression of its inner nature. In that sense everything communicates or talks. Quite often we interpret but if we do not we are able to accept more . . .
    Fael Illyar: It's interesting how hungry looking monsters distract people in a virtual environment where there is guaranteed to be no danger.
    Caledonia Heron: like letting it ride Crusty?
    Caledonia Heron: it's not the monsters per se Fael, for me it is the changing back and forth that is disruptive
    Moon Fargis: but we never changed :)
    Moon Fargis: we just look different
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes Cal . . . things are very rarely of import , we give them weight or lightness, we make the monsters hungry or calm the beasts . . .
    Adelene Dawner is toothy and not distracting. ^.^
    Wol Euler: house-trained :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Caledonia Heron: yes we have hungry and calm beasts today :)



    Moon Fargis: ok now i wont move :)
    Fael Illyar: yes, including one hungry (for candy) teddybear ... although you can't call that one calm :)
    Crusty Goldshark: WWe often are comprised of animals (or different natures. we are composite beings and yet we aalso are not those things . . .
    Tear Karu: ponderif a jet is really a beast or the pilot being the beast
    Moon Fargis: tear: depends on the point of view
    Caledonia Heron: animal natures
    Crusty Goldshark: The thing is to feed the kind and good aliens and monsters so they grow strong and starve those that are unkind or unhelpful . . .
    Tear Karu: a human isnt a animal?
    Caledonia Heron: animal, not vegetable or mineral :)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Tear Karu: lol
    Caledonia Heron: do we feed/starve or take no action ?
    Crusty Goldshark: yes i think some of us have qualities of vegetable and mineral but these are subtle
    Moon Fargis looks at cal...starving from not eating candy today ^^
    Caledonia Heron: we may have thought what animals we are like, have many thought what vegetable or mineral they are
    Red Lollipop : A nice red lollipop!
    Crusty Goldshark: We make choices when and if we can - sometimes our inner monsters are very strong . ..
    Crusty Goldshark: I consider myself a tree
    Tear Karu: hmm



    Adelene Dawner wants to hear more on this: [7:34] Caledonia Heron: do we feed/starve or take no action ?
    Caledonia Heron: it's funny because they don't look like monsters, they are a kind of renegade thoughts, a loose process
    Tear Karu: will do all three eventualy
    Red Lollipop : Just one more lick!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods at Adele... me too about 'feeding/starving'
    Crusty Goldshark: thoughts come and go - they are quite easy to control with meditation, emotions and instincts are far harder . . .
    Tear Karu: starve feed then take no action
    Caledonia Heron: instincts and emotions feed thoughts so maybe a layered kind of thing
    Caledonia Heron: and I'm not so sure about the control aspect - that doesn't address the no action thing
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes -perhaps similar to the chakra system . ..
    Tear Karu: hmm emotion's can be controled as easy as a thought
    Crusty Goldshark: control is not as important as balance
    Crusty Goldshark: but balance often comes after control . . .
    Tear Karu: with out control of balance you lose all
    Caledonia Heron: I think only at the moment of choice, where you choose to have that emotion Tear, which can be a micromicrosecond if recognized at all
    Caledonia Heron: I think the balance idea might have some validity, and more utlity than control
    Fael Illyar: it can be overturned, of course. We don't stay angry forever, do we?
    Caledonia Heron: mmm, some do not forget Fael
    Tear Karu: controle and balance are hand in hand one never more then other
    Crusty Goldshark: In Yoga you start by controlling your movements and through this you achieve balance
    Fael Illyar: even if one doesn't forget, does one still stay angry for the rest of their life?
    Crusty Goldshark: i feel the same discipline occurs on other levels . . .
    Tear Karu: do agree crusty
    Caledonia Heron: I think some do Fael
    Tear Karu: yes fael some do
    Fael Illyar: or is it that it happens based on certain triggers? that one gets angry again?
    Caledonia Heron: do you posit that there is no discipline without control Crusty?
    Adelene Dawner thinks it takes just as much discipline to avoid trying to control. :)
    Caledonia Heron: perhaps Adelene, that would suggest the balance idea again
    Moon Fargis: sometimes control isnt useable
    Tear Karu: thats where balance is there moon



    Crusty Goldshark: I feel these things can be approached from many directions. Physical discipline tames the emotions. A stron will can effect the arising of anger and so on . . .
    Caledonia Heron: trigger based anger is one type of anger Fael
    Caledonia Heron: sure, makes sense, more than one approach to each part of the equation
    Fael Illyar: yes, but does the anger exist, except in at limited times when it's triggerd?
    Fael Illyar: or is it recreated every time?
    Crusty Goldshark: Each approach is valid. Ifwe work on the feelings - it may give us wisdom. If we develop a strong will this might mean we can be physicallyvery disciplned etc
    Tear Karu: well said
    Caledonia Heron: on the most fundamental level, no anger does not exist, it's something we bring to the show :)
    Moon Fargis: hmm fundamental level, intresting said yes
    Crusty Goldshark: Well I ama veryangry person but not at all times and all situations and also i find these strong emotive forces have a great deal of positive potential for change . . .
    Crusty Goldshark: So anger can be cultivated andchannelled . . .
    Fael Illyar: anger is one of the tools we can use to overcome fears.
    Tear Karu: correct
    Moon Fargis: well then it would be like fighting fire with fire
    Crusty Goldshark: Well I feel anger is often triggerrd by fear . . .
    Fael Illyar: but at least from what I've observed, anger never arises unless it's against a fear.
    Crusty Goldshark: Fire with fire is the tantric way ;)
    Tear Karu: intresting
    Caledonia Heron: fear is about not knowing.... perhaps if you get that you know, there is no need to be fearful even when fear is staring you down
    Moon Fargis: well sure but destroys and we are able to fight against the fires in our mind by simply remove the burnable stuff
    Gaya Ethaniel: Observed in yourself Fael?
    Crusty Goldshark: When Isay I am an angry person Ishould go further back and say I amafearful person for it is the fear that causes the arising of anger . . .
    Fael Illyar: Where else, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wanted to check thanks
    Tear Karu: we have nothing to fear but fear itself [widrow wilson}
    Tear Karu: i think that said say fear and anger are like controle and balence'
    Tear Karu: one without other is inprobbile
    Tear Karu: typo sry
    Fael Illyar: at least for me, fear seems to come from a combination of two beliefs. One, that I believe something will happen and Two, that it'll be bad for me.
    Caledonia Heron: are you suggesting there is not one without the other?
    Tear Karu: yes
    Adelene Dawner nods at Fael.. "Well, bad for me or for someone I care about."
    Fael Illyar: ultimately bad for you because should something happen to someone you care about, it'll end up being bad for you, personally.
    Crusty Goldshark: I feel theycan be more independent - for example we can utilise the power of both anger and fear (fear for survival) and anger for motivation - we have to understand them . . .
    Adelene Dawner: Depends on how you define your terms, I guess. ^.^



    Tear Karu: even that has certain balence itself crusty with out control of anger motovation is lost
    Caledonia Heron: yes, it appears to me they can stand alone and together ... as for understanding them that might be useful, it might be more useful to notice them and from a point of neutrality
    Crusty Goldshark: emotions 9liek thoughts) are often interdependent- you can change a bad thought into a good one - hate can be a very intense form of Love when transformed or unstifled . .
    Caledonia Heron: ah, now there's an intertwined pair :)
    Tear Karu: nice
    Fael Illyar heard someone say once that hate is a clumsy attempt at Love.
    Tear Karu: hehe
    Crusty Goldshark: So this is where choice and control comes in. The thoughts or emotions arise and we decide how they will be expressed (if possible)
    Tear Karu: yep
    Crusty Goldshark: Agree with Faels overharing - thus have I heard too :)
    Caledonia Heron: I agree about choice .... not so sure about control
    Crusty Goldshark: overhearing
    Tear Karu: lol you don't think before you act is no controle of one self
    Crusty Goldshark: control is a form of voluntary filtering - social courtesy is a form of control
    Caledonia Heron: ok understood ... vocabulary issue :)
    Fael Illyar: Crusty, how would you define control?
    Tear Karu: most sorry i have leave such a great debate
    Crusty Goldshark: yes - what word would you prefer to hear?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day Tear ^^
    Fael Illyar: See you later Tear :)
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Tear Karu" from list.
    Gaya Ethaniel: My time is also up again ^^ Have a great day all
    Fael Illyar: See you later Gaya :)
    Crusty Goldshark: bye gaya
    Caledonia Heron: no preference ... this goes back to how we each express things differently according to our "inner landscape" as you said earlier :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes - now if we know tha the hateful are clumsy lovers and the fearful emotions are potential enthusiasms perhaps we would all be more positive?
    Caledonia Heron: WooT
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Caledonia Heron: LOL, If it improves things, I'm for it :)
    Moon Fargis: eieiei crash
    Caledonia Heron: I gotta scoot y'all :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Bye Cal
    Caledonia Heron: bye, later gators
    Fael Illyar: See you later Cal :)
    Adelene Dawner: cya cal

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