2008.12.08 13:00 - A Retreat in an Hour, or a Moment

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    Stim was the guardian that afternoon. He sent me, Pema, the log, which I put up. I also provided the title.

    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach, Geo, Wester, Tarmel
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Stim
    Geo Netizen: Hi everyone
    Wester Kiranov: hi all
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi geo, Wester
    Wol Euler: hello everyone.
    Stim Morane: Hi Wol
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Wol
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Geo Netizen: Is anyone else having especially slow response or is it just me :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Gaya, Adelene, Moon
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Adele ^^
    Wol Euler: hello ade, moon
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Moon ^^
    Wol Euler: is Geo all glowy for anyone else?
    Adelene Dawner: yup
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... for me he is
    Wester Kiranov: yup
    Adelene Dawner: Get it togethre, Geo. ^.^
    Wol Euler: Geo, could you rebake please?
    Moon Fargis looks around on wich lap he can sit
    Geo Netizen sighs sslow plasma
    Wol Euler: happens :)
    Wol Euler scritches Ade#s ears.
    Moon Fargis sneaks to Scath
    Geo Netizen: Sorry, response is dismal, I be back
    Wol Euler nods and waves
    Moon Fargis looks up to gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel pats Moon's head
    Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz
    Tarmel Udimo: meow
    Wol Euler suddenly remembesr the second part of the Great Debate this evening.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Second part?
    Wester Kiranov: it's at 2 pm
    Wol Euler: Pema and Gilles debated phenomonology and its application to PaB at Kira on Friday
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Pila ^^
    Wol Euler: that looks much better, geo.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Geo ^^
    Wol Euler: and hello pila
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Geo Netizen: Thanks ....
    Wol Euler: bye pila.
    Pila Mulligan: not really :)
    Tarmel Udimo: i think just pema's speaking?
    Wol Euler: tonight Pema talks (voice) about it, tomorrow Gilles talks about it, next Friday they meet again in debate
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Pila Mulligan: having trouble with rezzing etc
    Tarmel Udimo: hi pila
    Wol Euler: Pila, don't be a stranger :) join the inner circle.
    Wol Euler: or not, as you wish
    Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
    Wol Euler <- trying not to sound bossy.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Pila Mulligan: thanks Wol, at themoment I am a victim of excessive lag :)
    Tarmel Udimo: go ahead let it out
    Wol Euler: :-P
    Geo Netizen: O so glad to see I'm not the only victim
    Wol Euler: :)
    Moon Fargis: lag as being then
    Geo Netizen chuckles
    Tarmel Udimo: hummmmmm
    Tarmel Udimo: back to wol's comment about the debate
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Tarmel?
    Wester Kiranov: why talk about the debate now, we can go there later
    Adelene Dawner nods at Wester.
    Tarmel Udimo: gd point it was perhaps a way to ease into talking about subject and being
    Tarmel Udimo: pab stuff
    Wester Kiranov: do you ahve anything you want to discuss, about subject and being?
    Tarmel Udimo: being awareness the witness was talked about a lot and I notice that
    Moon Fargis: hmm
    Moon Fargis: not about the subject now
    Moon Fargis: but
    Moon Fargis: a uestion for everyone
    Tarmel Udimo: in the 9 secs its kind of the shift that happens
    Moon Fargis: "what do you think a Monk is"
    Adelene Dawner listens attentively.
    Geo Netizen: A monk is ?
    Geo Netizen listens with interest
    Moon Fargis: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: a monk is a lucky being who has managed to cut out the crap and just stay focused on the real stuff - spirit being
    Pila Mulligan: hi Zen (an old freind arriving)
    Geo Netizen: very generous to monks :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Zen ^^
    Wol Euler: ah, ok, I was about to give an introduction in IM
    Wol Euler: Zen, welcome. Pila has told you about us?
    Pila Mulligan: must a monk be a formal party to a religion?
    Geo Netizen: I'd say no, not formal
    Pila Mulligan: not in detail Wol
    ZEN7MEN Mannonen: (hey all, my first time here, will read the website content asap, thanks for the invite, Pila)
    Wol Euler: ok, IM then :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hi zen
    Moon Fargis: hi zen!
    Pila Mulligan: I often wonder if I could qualify as a secular monk, having an asectic lifestyle and practice
    Moon Fargis: ahyes
    Moon Fargis: well a monk in mind
    Tarmel Udimo: this approach is very much accepted in the east
    Pila Mulligan: not sure how the qualifcation is done, though :)
    Geo Netizen: There are such thinks as secular monks ;)
    Geo Netizen: *things
    Stim Morane: lay practitioners are common in some traditions, not in others. But the issue is pressing for the present age.
    Stim Morane: There is no need to by a "lay monk"
    Stim Morane: *be
    Tarmel Udimo: yes?
    Geo Netizen: just monk
    Stim Morane: :)
    Moon Fargis: hmm
    Moon Fargis: hehe
    Geo Netizen: So then what is a monk?
    Stim Morane: or just not ...
    Stim Morane: for certain levels of traditional understanding, really there is no characteristic one could point at that constitutes the real nature of a monk … of even of a monk existing at all. The same applies more broadly too, beyond “monks”.
    Geo Netizen nods
    Wester Kiranov: :)
    Wol Euler: has anyone spoken of retreating from the secular world?
    Wol Euler: (been distracted talking to Zen, sorry if there was)
    Tarmel Udimo: a label that tells others the kind of RL choices we wish to explore perhaps?
    Wol Euler: because to me that is an important componen t
    Geo Netizen: monks do not retreat
    Geo Netizen: They engage differently IMHO
    Wol Euler: butthey do not engage 9-to-5, weekend off, pub on friday night, either.
    Stim Morane: I find it important to take people on retreat several times a year, and also for a few days once a month. But this is separate from the issue of being a monk in particular.
    Wol Euler: (as I see the word)
    Geo Netizen nods
    Moon Fargis: wol: i know monks who do llike this (maybe exept the pub )
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Stim Morane: Geo, in some traditions, monks are required to practice in at least one continuous 100 day session each year
    Moon Fargis: but they are so calles laymonks, being a mobk in a monastery but not living htere
    Geo Netizen: Yes .... and so ?
    Stim Morane: But I agree that more generally their lives are their "retreat"
    Stim Morane: Anyway, the question for us is somewhat different.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes?
    Wol Euler: yes, stim, that is aht I meant
    Stim Morane: Life as practice, authentic being
    Tarmel Udimo: which happens whether monk or not
    Stim Morane: yes
    Stim Morane: hopefully
    Tarmel Udimo: or me tries to :)
    Stim Morane: :)
    Adelene Dawner wonders if monks could be better described by what they don't do, than by what they do do...
    Wol Euler: those who do that without being monks, are the lay monks :)
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Stim Morane: I do find retreats are helpful ... but they remain an "assist" to the main point
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Stim Morane: The characteristic of being a monk is not so important
    Tarmel Udimo: so like what's it going to be like when we're these wonderful aware beings? :)
    Wol Euler: is a monk necessarily enlightened?
    Stim Morane: certainly not
    Stim Morane: Adelene, some monks would agree with their characterization (“what they don’t do”) … but that cannot be considered a very advanced understanding.
    Stim Morane: *you characterization
    Pila Mulligan: chop wood, carry water
    Wol Euler: someone who is actively trying to become enlightened, maybe
    Stim Morane: *your (I'm really hopeless today)
    ZEN7MEN Mannonen: :) pila
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh my favourite expression:)
    Geo Netizen: A monk in general, is someone focused on Being
    Geo Netizen: there are different types
    Geo Netizen: cenobite for example
    Wol Euler googles
    Geo Netizen: hermit
    Geo Netizen: anchorite
    Geo Netizen: etc
    Tarmel Udimo: wol are you feeling the need for retreat and solace?
    Geo Netizen: may live alone but not necessarily
    Wol Euler assumes Geo doesn't refer to the works of Clive Barker? :-)
    Geo Netizen: ?
    Wol Euler: (tarmel, actually yes I am)
    Wol Euler: (geo, bad joke triggered by google, I'll explain later)
    Geo Netizen: K
    Geo Netizen: retreating from normal practice is always good for everyone
    Adelene Dawner: /hm hmms... "defined by what they don't do" may not be a very advanced understanding, but maybe it's a good starting point?
    Geo Netizen: Even hermit monks should do that :)
    Wol Euler: in theory that's why we have holidays.
    Stim Morane: Yes, I think you're right, Adelene ... especially for some people
    Pila Mulligan: maybe ascetic is a term comparable to monk, but with less formality
    Wester Kiranov: BUt how does one choose a retreat?
    Geo Netizen nods at Pila
    Wester Kiranov: I find it hard to find people I trust enough, but I don't want to do it on my own either
    Tarmel Udimo: the not doing I have trouble with that...
    Geo Netizen: Yes, self-directed retreats can be difficult
    Stim Morane: Wester, you can inject something of the main point of a retreat into an hour, or a moment.
    Stim Morane: That brings us back to PaB, among other things.
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Geo Netizen smiles
    Wester Kiranov: :)
    Stim Morane: not that I'm discouraging longer retreats ...
    Tarmel Udimo: but retreats are different
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Tarmel Udimo: and perhaps its about allowing being to help you choose (sorry to be a bit ahhhh mystical here)
    ZEN7MEN Mannonen: maybe the physical human life is a retreat itself. experiencing from-time-to-time sOMe illusionary borders :)
    Tarmel Udimo: visspassan is a gentle
    Tarmel Udimo: *visspassna
    Geo Netizen smiles at Zen ....
    Tarmel Udimo: but there are christian retreats too
    Geo Netizen thinks of 0L
    Geo Netizen chuckles
    Wester Kiranov: how about tai chi?
    Wester Kiranov: could that be a way to get closer to reality?
    Moon Fargis: ehm
    Moon Fargis: what reality ?
    Geo Netizen: That in which 1L is embeded
    Wester Kiranov: OK, Being
    Wester Kiranov: Words...
    Tarmel Udimo: mind/body connection the most important
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Storm ^^
    Tarmel Udimo: body intellegence is very much under-rated
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Stim Morane: Hi Storm!
    Wol Euler: hello storm
    Tarmel Udimo: hi storm
    Geo Netizen: Hi Storm
    Stim Morane: Yes, Tarmel ... one can follow that a long way.
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Storm
    ZEN7MEN Mannonen: Hey Strom~
    Pila Mulligan: one thing about daily practice, it seems to me, is the personal continuity -- while the thing about a retreat or session or intensive is the gathering aspect, being more than a personal event
    Tarmel Udimo: tai chi very gd - wish I gd find a gd teacher
    Tarmel Udimo: *could
    Pila Mulligan: tai chi alone is rewarding, tai chi together is fun :)
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Geo Netizen nods
    Stim Morane: Adelene, did you want to say more about your idea of being noted for “what one _doesn’t_ do”?
    Geo Netizen: Any of the centering practices would be good though
    ZEN7MEN Mannonen: to my life experience, retreats/ workshops/ pubs can offer great tools to work on the shape of life/ my being. What all tools have in common (so far) they dont work automatic. At the end, its not what you say, its what you do. Use the tools ~
    Adelene Dawner: Not offhand, Stim. Still pondering on this one.
    Stim Morane: OK
    Tarmel Udimo: hummmm
    Tarmel Udimo: however action requires choice
    Geo Netizen: In that you must chose to act, yes
    Tarmel Udimo: not sure the thought is formulating heading somewhere else but at the tip of the brain cells :)
    Stim Morane: Tarmel, are you hinting that you find choice itself difficult? Or problematical in some way?
    Tarmel Udimo: no more garbbling with idea of choiceless choice
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: *grappling
    Geo Netizen: lack of freedom to choose?
    Tarmel Udimo: more about if action is the the path then the action needs much support by 'clean' living and thought
    Stim Morane: :)
    Wol Euler: you mgiht want to move forward a bit, reyez
    ZEN7MEN Mannonen: what is "clean living" for you, Tarmel, please?
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh knew i should have used a different word....
    Geo Netizen: Healthy ?
    Reyez Dawodu: /sit
    Tarmel Udimo: yes that perhaps work has been done oneself so that the persoanilty filters are not making the choices
    Reyez Dawodu: hello everyone
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Reyez
    Geo Netizen: Hi Reyez
    Tarmel Udimo: hi
    Pila Mulligan: hi Reyez
    Wol Euler: Reyez, I will give you an introduction in IM so as not to disturb the others.
    Reyez Dawodu: okay
    Gaya Ethaniel looks across the fountain at the queen of SL chats... Wol ^^
    Wester Kiranov: just to remind you all: Pema's talk is in 10 minutes
    Wol Euler: :-PPP
    Tarmel Udimo: ta west
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day/night everyone ^^
    Geo Netizen: bye
    Wol Euler: goodnight gayy, take care.
    Geo Netizen: Personality filters .... can you say more Tarmel?
    Tarmel Udimo: the part of us that responds often in a patterned way even when we try to react differently - in fact re-act is the key
    ZEN7MEN Mannonen: personal filters = family patterns/ genes/ condition(ing) ?
    Tarmel Udimo: yeah
    Geo Netizen: Sometimes they can help to deal with complexity
    Geo Netizen: but they can also be negative
    ZEN7MEN Mannonen: so, "un-clean" re-act = passive -- "clean" act = active (ideally consciousness)
    Tarmel Udimo: nicley put - this brings us back to retreats places/process where we can see these patterns and perhspa try to untangle them
    Tarmel Udimo: *perhaps
    Wester Kiranov: bye for now - thanks for a really nice discussion, I'm off to kira cafe for another
    Wol Euler: yes, its time.
    Tarmel Udimo: ok see you all there -
    Pila Mulligan: yes, bye - or at least to Pema's talk :)
    Stim Morane: Yes, I will have to go too. Thanks, everyone!
    Geo Netizen: Bye all
    Wol Euler: bye everyone -- or see you lter
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