2008.12.08 13:00 - A Retreat in an Hour, or a Moment

Stim was the guardian that afternoon. He sent me, Pema, the log, which I put up. I also provided the title.

Stim Morane: Hi Scathach, Geo, Wester, Tarmel
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Stim
Geo Netizen: Hi everyone
Wester Kiranov: hi all
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi geo, Wester
Wol Euler: hello everyone.
Stim Morane: Hi Wol
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Wol
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Geo Netizen: Is anyone else having especially slow response or is it just me :)
Stim Morane: Hi Gaya, Adelene, Moon
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Adele ^^
Wol Euler: hello ade, moon
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Moon ^^
Wol Euler: is Geo all glowy for anyone else?
Adelene Dawner: yup
Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)
Gaya Ethaniel nods... for me he is
Wester Kiranov: yup
Adelene Dawner: Get it togethre, Geo. ^.^
Wol Euler: Geo, could you rebake please?
Moon Fargis looks around on wich lap he can sit
Geo Netizen sighs sslow plasma
Wol Euler: happens :)
Wol Euler scritches Ade#s ears.
Moon Fargis sneaks to Scath
Geo Netizen: Sorry, response is dismal, I be back
Wol Euler nods and waves
Moon Fargis looks up to gaya
Gaya Ethaniel pats Moon's head
Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz
Tarmel Udimo: meow
Wol Euler suddenly remembesr the second part of the Great Debate this evening.
Gaya Ethaniel: Second part?
Wester Kiranov: it's at 2 pm
Wol Euler: Pema and Gilles debated phenomonology and its application to PaB at Kira on Friday
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Pila ^^
Wol Euler: that looks much better, geo.
Gaya Ethaniel: wb Geo ^^
Wol Euler: and hello pila
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Geo Netizen: Thanks ....
Wol Euler: bye pila.
Pila Mulligan: not really :)
Tarmel Udimo: i think just pema's speaking?
Wol Euler: tonight Pema talks (voice) about it, tomorrow Gilles talks about it, next Friday they meet again in debate
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Pila Mulligan: having trouble with rezzing etc
Tarmel Udimo: hi pila
Wol Euler: Pila, don't be a stranger :) join the inner circle.
Wol Euler: or not, as you wish
Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
Wol Euler <- trying not to sound bossy.
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Pila Mulligan: thanks Wol, at themoment I am a victim of excessive lag :)
Tarmel Udimo: go ahead let it out
Wol Euler: :-P
Geo Netizen: O so glad to see I'm not the only victim
Wol Euler: :)
Moon Fargis: lag as being then
Geo Netizen chuckles
Tarmel Udimo: hummmmmm
Tarmel Udimo: back to wol's comment about the debate
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Tarmel?
Wester Kiranov: why talk about the debate now, we can go there later
Adelene Dawner nods at Wester.
Tarmel Udimo: gd point it was perhaps a way to ease into talking about subject and being
Tarmel Udimo: pab stuff
Wester Kiranov: do you ahve anything you want to discuss, about subject and being?
Tarmel Udimo: being awareness the witness was talked about a lot and I notice that
Moon Fargis: hmm
Moon Fargis: not about the subject now
Moon Fargis: but
Moon Fargis: a uestion for everyone
Tarmel Udimo: in the 9 secs its kind of the shift that happens
Moon Fargis: "what do you think a Monk is"
Adelene Dawner listens attentively.
Geo Netizen: A monk is ?
Geo Netizen listens with interest
Moon Fargis: yes
Tarmel Udimo: a monk is a lucky being who has managed to cut out the crap and just stay focused on the real stuff - spirit being
Pila Mulligan: hi Zen (an old freind arriving)
Geo Netizen: very generous to monks :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Zen ^^
Wol Euler: ah, ok, I was about to give an introduction in IM
Wol Euler: Zen, welcome. Pila has told you about us?
Pila Mulligan: must a monk be a formal party to a religion?
Geo Netizen: I'd say no, not formal
Pila Mulligan: not in detail Wol
ZEN7MEN Mannonen: (hey all, my first time here, will read the website content asap, thanks for the invite, Pila)
Wol Euler: ok, IM then :)
Tarmel Udimo: hi zen
Moon Fargis: hi zen!
Pila Mulligan: I often wonder if I could qualify as a secular monk, having an asectic lifestyle and practice
Moon Fargis: ahyes
Moon Fargis: well a monk in mind
Tarmel Udimo: this approach is very much accepted in the east
Pila Mulligan: not sure how the qualifcation is done, though :)
Geo Netizen: There are such thinks as secular monks ;)
Geo Netizen: *things
Stim Morane: lay practitioners are common in some traditions, not in others. But the issue is pressing for the present age.
Stim Morane: There is no need to by a "lay monk"
Stim Morane: *be
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Geo Netizen: just monk
Stim Morane: :)
Moon Fargis: hmm
Moon Fargis: hehe
Geo Netizen: So then what is a monk?
Stim Morane: or just not ...
Stim Morane: for certain levels of traditional understanding, really there is no characteristic one could point at that constitutes the real nature of a monk … of even of a monk existing at all. The same applies more broadly too, beyond “monks”.
Geo Netizen nods
Wester Kiranov: :)
Wol Euler: has anyone spoken of retreating from the secular world?
Wol Euler: (been distracted talking to Zen, sorry if there was)
Tarmel Udimo: a label that tells others the kind of RL choices we wish to explore perhaps?
Wol Euler: because to me that is an important componen t
Geo Netizen: monks do not retreat
Geo Netizen: They engage differently IMHO
Wol Euler: butthey do not engage 9-to-5, weekend off, pub on friday night, either.
Stim Morane: I find it important to take people on retreat several times a year, and also for a few days once a month. But this is separate from the issue of being a monk in particular.
Wol Euler: (as I see the word)
Geo Netizen nods
Moon Fargis: wol: i know monks who do llike this (maybe exept the pub )
Wol Euler: ah :)
Stim Morane: Geo, in some traditions, monks are required to practice in at least one continuous 100 day session each year
Moon Fargis: but they are so calles laymonks, being a mobk in a monastery but not living htere
Geo Netizen: Yes .... and so ?
Stim Morane: But I agree that more generally their lives are their "retreat"
Stim Morane: Anyway, the question for us is somewhat different.
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Wol Euler: yes, stim, that is aht I meant
Stim Morane: Life as practice, authentic being
Tarmel Udimo: which happens whether monk or not
Stim Morane: yes
Stim Morane: hopefully
Tarmel Udimo: or me tries to :)
Stim Morane: :)
Adelene Dawner wonders if monks could be better described by what they don't do, than by what they do do...
Wol Euler: those who do that without being monks, are the lay monks :)
Tarmel Udimo: :)
Stim Morane: I do find retreats are helpful ... but they remain an "assist" to the main point
Stim Morane: Yes
Stim Morane: The characteristic of being a monk is not so important
Tarmel Udimo: so like what's it going to be like when we're these wonderful aware beings? :)
Wol Euler: is a monk necessarily enlightened?
Stim Morane: certainly not
Stim Morane: Adelene, some monks would agree with their characterization (“what they don’t do”) … but that cannot be considered a very advanced understanding.
Stim Morane: *you characterization
Pila Mulligan: chop wood, carry water
Wol Euler: someone who is actively trying to become enlightened, maybe
Stim Morane: *your (I'm really hopeless today)
ZEN7MEN Mannonen: :) pila
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh my favourite expression:)
Geo Netizen: A monk in general, is someone focused on Being
Geo Netizen: there are different types
Geo Netizen: cenobite for example
Wol Euler googles
Geo Netizen: hermit
Geo Netizen: anchorite
Geo Netizen: etc
Tarmel Udimo: wol are you feeling the need for retreat and solace?
Geo Netizen: may live alone but not necessarily
Wol Euler assumes Geo doesn't refer to the works of Clive Barker? :-)
Geo Netizen: ?
Wol Euler: (tarmel, actually yes I am)
Wol Euler: (geo, bad joke triggered by google, I'll explain later)
Geo Netizen: K
Geo Netizen: retreating from normal practice is always good for everyone
Adelene Dawner: /hm hmms... "defined by what they don't do" may not be a very advanced understanding, but maybe it's a good starting point?
Geo Netizen: Even hermit monks should do that :)
Wol Euler: in theory that's why we have holidays.
Stim Morane: Yes, I think you're right, Adelene ... especially for some people
Pila Mulligan: maybe ascetic is a term comparable to monk, but with less formality
Wester Kiranov: BUt how does one choose a retreat?
Geo Netizen nods at Pila
Wester Kiranov: I find it hard to find people I trust enough, but I don't want to do it on my own either
Tarmel Udimo: the not doing I have trouble with that...
Geo Netizen: Yes, self-directed retreats can be difficult
Stim Morane: Wester, you can inject something of the main point of a retreat into an hour, or a moment.
Stim Morane: That brings us back to PaB, among other things.
Tarmel Udimo: :)
Geo Netizen smiles
Wester Kiranov: :)
Stim Morane: not that I'm discouraging longer retreats ...
Tarmel Udimo: but retreats are different
Stim Morane: Yes
Tarmel Udimo: and perhaps its about allowing being to help you choose (sorry to be a bit ahhhh mystical here)
ZEN7MEN Mannonen: maybe the physical human life is a retreat itself. experiencing from-time-to-time sOMe illusionary borders :)
Tarmel Udimo: visspassan is a gentle
Tarmel Udimo: *visspassna
Geo Netizen smiles at Zen ....
Tarmel Udimo: but there are christian retreats too
Geo Netizen thinks of 0L
Geo Netizen chuckles
Wester Kiranov: how about tai chi?
Wester Kiranov: could that be a way to get closer to reality?
Moon Fargis: ehm
Moon Fargis: what reality ?
Geo Netizen: That in which 1L is embeded
Wester Kiranov: OK, Being
Wester Kiranov: Words...
Tarmel Udimo: mind/body connection the most important
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Storm ^^
Tarmel Udimo: body intellegence is very much under-rated
Storm Nordwind waves
Stim Morane: Hi Storm!
Wol Euler: hello storm
Tarmel Udimo: hi storm
Geo Netizen: Hi Storm
Stim Morane: Yes, Tarmel ... one can follow that a long way.
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Storm
ZEN7MEN Mannonen: Hey Strom~
Pila Mulligan: one thing about daily practice, it seems to me, is the personal continuity -- while the thing about a retreat or session or intensive is the gathering aspect, being more than a personal event
Tarmel Udimo: tai chi very gd - wish I gd find a gd teacher
Tarmel Udimo: *could
Pila Mulligan: tai chi alone is rewarding, tai chi together is fun :)
Tarmel Udimo: :)
Geo Netizen nods
Stim Morane: Adelene, did you want to say more about your idea of being noted for “what one _doesn’t_ do”?
Geo Netizen: Any of the centering practices would be good though
ZEN7MEN Mannonen: to my life experience, retreats/ workshops/ pubs can offer great tools to work on the shape of life/ my being. What all tools have in common (so far) they dont work automatic. At the end, its not what you say, its what you do. Use the tools ~
Adelene Dawner: Not offhand, Stim. Still pondering on this one.
Stim Morane: OK
Tarmel Udimo: hummmm
Tarmel Udimo: however action requires choice
Geo Netizen: In that you must chose to act, yes
Tarmel Udimo: not sure the thought is formulating heading somewhere else but at the tip of the brain cells :)
Stim Morane: Tarmel, are you hinting that you find choice itself difficult? Or problematical in some way?
Tarmel Udimo: no more garbbling with idea of choiceless choice
Stim Morane: :)
Tarmel Udimo: *grappling
Geo Netizen: lack of freedom to choose?
Tarmel Udimo: more about if action is the the path then the action needs much support by 'clean' living and thought
Stim Morane: :)
Wol Euler: you mgiht want to move forward a bit, reyez
ZEN7MEN Mannonen: what is "clean living" for you, Tarmel, please?
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh knew i should have used a different word....
Geo Netizen: Healthy ?
Reyez Dawodu: /sit
Tarmel Udimo: yes that perhaps work has been done oneself so that the persoanilty filters are not making the choices
Reyez Dawodu: hello everyone
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Reyez
Geo Netizen: Hi Reyez
Tarmel Udimo: hi
Pila Mulligan: hi Reyez
Wol Euler: Reyez, I will give you an introduction in IM so as not to disturb the others.
Reyez Dawodu: okay
Gaya Ethaniel looks across the fountain at the queen of SL chats... Wol ^^
Wester Kiranov: just to remind you all: Pema's talk is in 10 minutes
Wol Euler: :-PPP
Tarmel Udimo: ta west
Gaya Ethaniel: Good day/night everyone ^^
Geo Netizen: bye
Wol Euler: goodnight gayy, take care.
Geo Netizen: Personality filters .... can you say more Tarmel?
Tarmel Udimo: the part of us that responds often in a patterned way even when we try to react differently - in fact re-act is the key
ZEN7MEN Mannonen: personal filters = family patterns/ genes/ condition(ing) ?
Tarmel Udimo: yeah
Geo Netizen: Sometimes they can help to deal with complexity
Geo Netizen: but they can also be negative
ZEN7MEN Mannonen: so, "un-clean" re-act = passive -- "clean" act = active (ideally consciousness)
Tarmel Udimo: nicley put - this brings us back to retreats places/process where we can see these patterns and perhspa try to untangle them
Tarmel Udimo: *perhaps
Wester Kiranov: bye for now - thanks for a really nice discussion, I'm off to kira cafe for another
Wol Euler: yes, its time.
Tarmel Udimo: ok see you all there -
Pila Mulligan: yes, bye - or at least to Pema's talk :)
Stim Morane: Yes, I will have to go too. Thanks, everyone!
Geo Netizen: Bye all
Wol Euler: bye everyone -- or see you lter