2008.12.11 01:00 - Memory in DNA?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fael Illyar. The comments are by Fael.

    I arrive at the playgoda to find Wester already waiting.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Wester :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi fael
    Wester Kiranov: nice wings
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
    Fael Illyar: Pema sent me an email a couple of days ago that you're considering taking over this slot.
    Fael Illyar: Hello Soleil :)
    Wester Kiranov: considering, yes - i still feel a bit unsure about that
    Wester Kiranov: hi all
    Soleil8 Andel: SALUT TOUT LE MONDE
    Soleil8's translator: HELLO EVERYONE

    Soleil also arrives.

    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar: I'd appreciate it if you did :)
    Fael Illyar: How do you find PaB so far?
    Wester Kiranov: i like pab a lot
    Fael Illyar: Hi Tarmel :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hi there all
    Soleil8 Andel: hi tamel
    Soleil8's translator: hi Tamel
    Wester Kiranov: maybe you can give me some more instructions sometime, this SL thing is still very new to me and I don't have a clue how to post the chat log and thiose kind of things
    Wester Kiranov: maybe we should have a FAQ in the guardian group

    Wester is requesting things we already have on the wiki so I thought I'd link her to the index page.

    Wester Kiranov: brb
    Fael Illyar: There are a few pages like that.
    Fael Illyar: mostly under here http://playasbeing.wik.is/Information
    Tarmel Udimo: you're looking very newly attired Fael.. nice
    Wester Kiranov: yes, but i'm looking for a bit more practical information - because i still do now know HOW to post the log (etc)
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you Tarmel.'
    Fael Illyar: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Informatio...sting_Tutorial this page should have what's necessary.

    However, I ended up linking straight to the page that has the instructions.

    Fael Illyar: if it doesn't, it needs adding there :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Crusty :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hi crusty
    Crusty Goldshark: hi guys
    Soleil8 Andel: salut
    Soleil8's translator: hello
    Wester Kiranov: hey, i missed that - i will look into it.
    Wester Kiranov: hi crusty
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: Tarmel, I like changing outfits every once in a while :)
    Fael Illyar: That is, every few days usually :)
    Tarmel Udimo: do you do that in RL?

    Interestingly I don't really change clothes in RL that much. Even though I do in SL. It is a kind of communication method though and I'm in SL because I _want_ to communicate. The way my AV looks is one of the ways to do that.

    Fael Illyar: Nope.
    Tarmel Udimo: oh okay so there's hope for me :)
    Crusty Goldshark: I was outside a temple - took off my shirt (trying to speed things by simplyfying my avatar) thought it was disrespectful to be outside a temple with no shirt
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Tarmel Udimo: smiles
    Fael Illyar kind of thinks it'd be disrespectful for her to take off her shirt here, now :P
    Crusty Goldshark: Once went in a Church in France with no top (it was hot) had no idea why the priest was so agitated . . .
    Soleil8 Andel: je dois y aller salut tout le monde
    Soleil8's translator: I gotta go salvation everyone

    Soleil suddenly has to go.

    Tarmel Udimo: checked out your website crusty, looks like you're into some very interesting explorations
    Crusty Goldshark: . . . bye
    Wester Kiranov: your translator is funny
    Fael Illyar: See you later Soleil
    Tarmel Udimo: bye soleil
    Wester Kiranov: bye
    Soleil8 Andel: bye
    Soleil8's translator: bye
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes thanks Tarmel - was that the tmxxine project or Yinyana Buddhism?
    Tarmel Udimo: the tmxxine
    Crusty Goldshark: OK - wel that is a training for practical dimensional and time travel (not yet available)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Tarmel Udimo: keep me posted
    Crusty Goldshark: My plan is to get to hell and offer some councilling and a release program - also day trips to heaven and the purelands . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: laughs
    Crusty Goldshark: It sounds funny but there is now an aknowledgement that the thought or focus on nothing creates something - maybe these places have an emptiness of form or is it a form of emptiness?
    Tarmel Udimo: you mean thought in itself has energy
    Crusty Goldshark: After all a lot of people have been concentrating and investing these areas with energy . . .
    Faenik: indeed?

    Faenik seems to understand what's going on, again.

    Tarmel Udimo: indeed
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes thought is able to cause quantum effects
    Tarmel Udimo: well there are the hell realms in buddhism
    Tarmel Udimo: but i always assumed it was taking place in the present
    Crusty Goldshark: Matter comes into being from nowhere - this is the world we live in - Emptiness is Form and Form is Emptiness as the Mahayana Buddhists already worked out . . .
    Wester Kiranov accepted your inventory offer.
    Crusty Goldshark: There are levels and understanding of hell and heaven realms - the highest is to see them as mind states - however many fell they are actually places that the karmic reincarnating 'soul' may visit and reside in . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I prefer to think of them as mind states otherwise i would have to condemn 90%
    Tarmel Udimo: of the population to be living in hell from being bad.... this is always where i enjoy thinking of karma
    Tarmel Udimo: but find it difficult to deal with the idea that a small child who has his or her legs blown off or raped is just expereincing bad karma
    Tarmel Udimo: *enjoy wrong word
    Crusty Goldshark: Well people are able to generate a choice realm to live in by practicing meditation - an interpretation of reality that may have no qualities as in much Zen and Chan type thinking . . . or . . .
    Crusty Goldshark: may choose to live in a metta verse of pureland bliss - m m m . . bliss for me please - with all the athachments . .
    Crusty Goldshark: Wot say u?
    Wester Kiranov: if you're not in the human realm you cannot start practicing meditation
    Tarmel Udimo: easy to say when one is white, male and living in a western world
    Tarmel Udimo: this is a blissful environment we inhabit even being here in PAB and having the luxury of money and time to do this

    And yet, it's full of people who view their lives as miserable... We have this blissful environment, yet are trained to not see it as such.

    Crusty Goldshark: Very true - existence for most people is suffering - as someone once said . .
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes so does this mean that those who are living the west in affulant ways are good and all those poor hungrey starving humans of colour are all bad and deserve all those terrible things that are happening to them?
    Crusty Goldshark: I also believe the Internet (plus the basics) is part of human rights - rights we deny people - maybe we are Buddhist demons?
    Tarmel Udimo: perhaps
    Crusty Goldshark: To answer your question Karmel - karma is (I believe) mostly a fantasy created to explain some need for justice that does not exist - what say you?
    Tarmel Udimo: that's the conclusion I have come to
    Wester Kiranov: karma can be quite a neutral notion, until you start using it to justigfy the current situation
    Tarmel Udimo: can it be neutral?
    Fael Illyar still isn't quite clear on what karma is ... feels rather vague term.
    Crusty Goldshark: I think it has value - karma - for example do good - good is more likely - that much is true
    Wester Kiranov: just the idea that if you do good stuff, or mean good stuff, good stuff is more likely to happen to you than when you do bad stuff
    Tarmel Udimo: I do however believe in cause and effect and that individuals get caught up in group cuse and effect
    Crusty Goldshark: but past lives? Little evidence apart from stories from half crazy mysics hallucinating on weird practices and diets of exteme instability . .
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I agreed that good begats good but not always...
    Wester Kiranov: but if you start saying you're in a bad situation, so you must have done something wrong and it's your own fault, is very uncompassionate
    Crusty Goldshark: Can you say more about group karma?
    Fael Illyar: Well, can't say it won't make it more likely that good things happen to you. but it certainly won't make it certain :)

    Too many negatives in my sentence here :)

    Crusty Goldshark: I think karma is about odds - not certainties . .
    Fael Illyar: although, given enough time, good things will happen, whether you see them or not :)
    Crusty Goldshark: agree with fael - good intetion is the start
    Faenik loves wells!
    Tarmel Udimo: agreed as to past lives - I think there is a life continuim in the blood strea/DNA and when we awake in a certain life stream we take on the "deeds" of the life stream and so it appears that there are past lives in fact there are one is reading the past history of the life stream
    Crusty Goldshark: Interesting Tamel - I read some recent research that memories of import are stored in the DNA . . .
    Fael Illyar: Would there being past lives actually mean anything more than that there are memories of them somewhere?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes i have always though they were stored in the body the DNA though makes sense
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Tarmel Udimo: *thought
    Tarmel Udimo: the present memories
    Crusty Goldshark: Strangely we have neurons (brain cells) in the heart and possibly in other organs places . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: where did you read this?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes temotions are inteligent too
    Tarmel Udimo: *emotions
    Crusty Goldshark: Well I do a lot of research for tmxxine - so could be a lot of places - google for neurons heart on google might find it
    Tarmel Udimo: i will I was also keen to know about memory and DNA
    Tarmel Udimo: what do you think Fael and wester?
    Crusty Goldshark: The reason was that people who had heart transplants were remembering and acting behaviour that came from the donor - so they explored why this might be and found the neorons - the heart is part of the brain - this supports the mind/body complex that is more an Eastern viewpoint . .
    Tarmel Udimo: agreed in fact watched a great doco about it a few months ago
    Fael Illyar: I think I watched that document too
    Wester Kiranov: so how were those neurons different from normal nerves?
    Crusty Goldshark: Memory and DNA is cutting edge research - came across it in the last couple of weeks - will go mainstream soon so expect it to be about . .
    Fael Illyar: that'd kind of explain the vast amount of "junk" DNA :)

    I find it a neat explanation for the "junk" DNA.

    Crusty Goldshark: Well they do not yet know how the brain cells in the heart are being used - just that they are present
    Wester Kiranov: how do they know they are brain cells? not normal nerves?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes boy wait until we start exploring that - the audacity of science to call some thing like DNA junk
    Tarmel Udimo: or the 92% they don't understand junk
    Crusty Goldshark: Is it possible that an advanced meditator can get into the DNA meories? I would suggest yes - I can easily bring attention to organs such as the heart, kidney liver etc but that is beginner stuff . . .
    Faenik: ah :)
    Tarmel Udimo: not sure of my % here
    Tarmel Udimo: I think that's the point in a way
    Fael Illyar: but if there are memories stored in the DNA, then it's kind of slow motion mind of it's own :)
    Tarmel Udimo: can you say more fael?
    Fael Illyar: well, DNA tends to take a long while to change :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Wester - brain cells are different to heart cells - they should be (and up to now would be) in the brain - they are structually different
    Tarmel Udimo: I think mediation or focusing attention probably speeds up the DNA
    Tarmel Udimo: it would be interesting to know if long time mediators have a different set of combinations
    Tarmel Udimo: *meditators
    Wester Kiranov: I'm off now. See you all later.
    Fael Illyar: See you later Wester :)
    Crusty Goldshark: It would seem that way - incorruptibility of saints - including Buddhist saints
    Crusty Goldshark: CU Wester
    Wester Kiranov: namaste
    Fael Illyar: but memory in DNA would pretty much explain the different personalities children from different parents have even in the same environment

    I go on pondering about all kinds of things it could explain.

    Faenik: indeed?
    Crusty Goldshark: Incorruptibility means the whole of the body has changed structure - it does not decay - trouble is dissecting saints is not always possible - ah well . . . we need more saints
    Tarmel Udimo: yes you could be right fael
    Fael Illyar: and the similarities between siblings even in different environments
    Crusty Goldshark: Good point and it would make sense to have more variety in a given family to react to survival needs . .
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh yes back to groups
    Faenik: ah :)
    Fael Illyar: Hello Joshua :)
    Crusty Goldshark: There is also some fascinting research being done into suspended animation - we can revive people up to an hour after death

    Joshua arrives and the conversation we had going on starts flickering.

    joshua Tiponi: hello
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Joshua
    joshua Tiponi: how are you
    Fael Illyar: I'm good, you?
    Tarmel Udimo: in a way families groups provide the ground for the life stream to be experiencing various aspects of itself within the same energy field
    Tarmel Udimo: hi josha
    Fael Illyar: Ah, you're new to SL :)
    joshua Tiponi: yes ma'am just loaded this up
    joshua Tiponi: verry confusing
    Fael Illyar: Yes, SL is quite a handful when you first start :)
    Faenik: why not?
    Tarmel Udimo: And yet you managed to find your way here
    joshua Tiponi: it seems that way
    joshua Tiponi: idk where i am
    Fael Illyar: This is meeting place for our group, Play as Being.
    Tarmel Udimo: special
    Tarmel Udimo: very nice place to come to first
    Fael Illyar: We discuss things related to the mind here and most of us do some kind of meditation or other.
    joshua Tiponi: sorry if i interupted a conversation
    Crusty Goldshark: No worries - just discussing life and death
    Fael Illyar: although, very many of us do 9-second micro-meditation as well. That's what this group is for, actually :)
    Crusty Goldshark: try this article . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: everyone is welcomed
    Crusty Goldshark: http://www.esquire.com/features/best...?click=main_sr
    Fael Illyar: meetings are for discussing what you notice while doing these 9-second pauses every 15 minutes.
    Crusty Goldshark: a great read and worthy of the Tibetan Bokk of the Dead researchers . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: is this relation to: here is also some fascinting research being done into suspended animation - we can revive people up to an hour after death
    Crusty Goldshark: yes Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: do you meditate Josha
    Fael Illyar: joshua, we log our meetings on our wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ do you mind what you say being included there as well?

    I ask Joshua for permission here, for the first time. I ended up asking him afterwards if he wants to reconsider but the reply was that he has no objections to it being posted.

    Crusty Goldshark: Basically we may kill people in the future in order to do major cures - fascinating . . .
    Faenik: indeed?
    Tarmel Udimo: hummmm that requires thinking on my part
    joshua Tiponi: no it is ok
    Crusty Goldshark: as I say - a great read . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: okay ta
    joshua Tiponi: but i dont know much about this
    Crusty Goldshark: Hey joshua - meditation for 9 seconds is easy - sit quietly and aware . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: we have sessions in thsi place 4 times in 24 hours
    Tarmel Udimo: *this
    Crusty Goldshark: . . . aware of you thoughts and 'being'
    Fael Illyar: yes, every day, 1am,7am,1pm,7pm Second Life Time.
    Fael Illyar: (it's 2am SLT right now)

    Sounds like Joshua tried 9-seconds and just reported what he felt. This started quite a discussion though. I have to say I still feel kind of uneasy putting this up publically but...

    joshua Tiponi: all i feel is alone and sad
    Crusty Goldshark: :( why?
    joshua Tiponi: just an emptyness
    Crusty Goldshark: Do you suffer from depression or is theire a cause?
    Tarmel Udimo: can you say more
    joshua Tiponi: no depression
    joshua Tiponi: just an crazy life that has left me empty
    joshua Tiponi: i am a very open person
    Crusty Goldshark: Has something happened recently?
    joshua Tiponi: no
    Crusty Goldshark: How long have you felt empty?
    Fael Illyar: looking for something but not knowing what?
    joshua Tiponi: but the past haunts me at night
    joshua Tiponi: 15 years
    joshua Tiponi: or so
    joshua Tiponi: btw i am 27
    Fael Illyar: Yes, unfortunately, the past will continue to do so until you make peace with it.
    joshua Tiponi: how
    joshua Tiponi: i have tried everything i can think of
    Crusty Goldshark: M m m . . . my sister suffers from depression and anxiety and that is one possibility . . .
    Crusty Goldshark: I also had a friend who tried everything - EVERYTHING - then did meditation
    Faenik: indeed?
    Crusty Goldshark: Meditation worked
    joshua Tiponi: well it was a situation that went on for years with my dad
    joshua Tiponi: he abused my sister brother and me
    joshua Tiponi: and finally went to jail fo it
    joshua Tiponi: but all these years later it haunts me in my dreams
    Crusty Goldshark: Well it hardly is surprising you feel the way you do - is it . . .
    joshua Tiponi: no
    joshua Tiponi: but it is hard
    Crusty Goldshark: understood
    Tarmel Udimo: understand
    Fael Illyar: Yes, it is hard... and the only way to get through it (that I know of) is to look at it, see that it happened, accept that it happend and continue living. Not continue wallowing in thoughts that "this should not have happened".
    Crusty Goldshark: There is no 'cure' for the past but a big part of meditation even dream meditation is living in the present
    joshua Tiponi: i have always had a hard time with moving forward
    Crusty Goldshark: Where are you now? What part of the body is the emptyness located in?
    joshua Tiponi: heart mostly and sometimes just in thought
    joshua Tiponi: like i am not good enough
    Crusty Goldshark: You are good enough for me
    Crusty Goldshark: The heart feels empty?
    joshua Tiponi: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: and me - you have come to the right, that's what i meant when i said you somehow were drawn to this place
    joshua Tiponi: to break that down there would be a lack of love
    Fael Illyar: try listening to this audio sometime: http://www.pathwaytohappiness.com/so...ood_enough.mp3
    Crusty Goldshark: What would it being full feel like?
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    joshua Tiponi: idk
    joshua Tiponi: there has become a lack of compasion over the years
    joshua Tiponi: i am not mean in any way
    joshua Tiponi: but just loosing the love
    Fael Illyar: do you have compassion for yourself?
    Crusty Goldshark: What do you imagine it might be like Joshua - we are trying to help - we can not instantly solve things but maybe the people here can offer some solace or suggestions?
    joshua Tiponi: most of the time
    joshua Tiponi: i never had a family, and i feel like i cant
    Crusty Goldshark: There is a meditation practice called Metta bhavna that can contact the feeling of compassion and Love . . do you know of this?
    joshua Tiponi: i know this is odd for a 27 year od
    joshua Tiponi: no sir
    Fael Illyar: odd or not, if you feel like that, then it is like that.
    Fael Illyar: nothing to be ashamed there.
    joshua Tiponi: true
    Fael Illyar: We all need to do what we need to do to be able to live with ourselves.
    joshua Tiponi: i am a perty hapy person when it come to life
    Crusty Goldshark: :)
    joshua Tiponi: but when it comes to relationships I have made the choice to not have any
    Crusty Goldshark: So you know how to feel happy
    Crusty Goldshark: and full ?
    Tarmel Udimo: you feel this way because you are afraid that you too may end up doing the same thing and its best not to get too close
    joshua Tiponi: because every time i tried i felt like i could not do enough
    Fael Illyar: what would be enough?
    joshua Tiponi: well the girl would always say i was doing to much
    joshua Tiponi: i was overly nice
    joshua Tiponi: so that would be it
    joshua Tiponi: and so finally i just quit trying
    Fael Illyar: again, what would be enough?
    Fael Illyar: for you
    joshua Tiponi: concerning what ?
    Fael Illyar: since you feel you couldn't do enough, what would be enough?
    Fael Illyar: how much would you need to do to feel it'd be enough?
    joshua Tiponi: i am always striving to do everything i can
    joshua Tiponi: everything
    Fael Illyar: yes, but that doesn't answer the question.
    Tarmel Udimo: I think perhaps this is because you have been programmed by the situation to be this way
    Tarmel Udimo: you have been taught to be nice
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    joshua Tiponi: i was taught to be an a
    Fael Illyar: maybe I should rephrase. Is it possible that you'd ever think you're doing enough?
    joshua Tiponi: but i made the decision at a young age to be the opposit
    joshua Tiponi: there you go... and no
    joshua Tiponi: i never can do enough
    Fael Illyar: then you're clearly asking more of yourself than you can do.
    joshua Tiponi: but it reality i do to much
    Tarmel Udimo: yes that's part of the porgramming of abuse
    Tarmel Udimo: *programming
    joshua Tiponi: ii have high stantards that everyone think cant be achieved
    joshua Tiponi: see my dad was the higest standard of mean
    joshua Tiponi: so i decided at a young age to be the higest standard of nice
    Fael Illyar: it's likely they can't... trying will only get you depressed.
    joshua Tiponi: but it is so hard to keep up
    joshua Tiponi: but something always tell me to try harder
    joshua Tiponi: when i do anything against the standard i beat myself up mentaly
    Crusty Goldshark: Why not be what you are? What we all are - nice and not nice - why are you trying to be more than you are? It is not required . . .
    Fael Illyar: Yes, a recipe for beating yourself up all the time ...
    Fael Illyar: do you _really_ want to beat yourself up, all the time?
    joshua Tiponi: i know but i cant allow myself to be mean ever
    Crusty Goldshark: Rubbish - you are mean on yourself
    joshua Tiponi: because of the thought of being like him
    Crusty Goldshark: Forcing yourself to be nice - Nice is unnatural
    joshua Tiponi: i know i am that
    joshua Tiponi: but nice is loving and kind
    joshua Tiponi: i dont want to be the opposit of those
    Crusty Goldshark: No it is not if it drives people away . .
    Crusty Goldshark: Not if it makes you unhappy
    Crusty Goldshark: Ever tried martial arts?
    joshua Tiponi: yes
    Crusty Goldshark: And
    joshua Tiponi: i was in the army 4 years
    Crusty Goldshark: So you know how to be 'not so nice'
    joshua Tiponi: i use the anger to focus energy
    Crusty Goldshark: Understood
    joshua Tiponi: in a combative manner
    Crusty Goldshark: Good call
    Crusty Goldshark: You want more?
    joshua Tiponi: fighting or anger ?
    Crusty Goldshark: LOL - No I feel you want to be loved is that right?
    joshua Tiponi: yes
    Crusty Goldshark: Is that the cause of the emptiness perhaps?
    joshua Tiponi: yes because all i ever had was war
    Crusty Goldshark: OK
    Fael Illyar: Really? only war?
    Crusty Goldshark: Do you think you could love yourself - indeed do you?
    Faenik: could be
    joshua Tiponi: with my family yea
    joshua Tiponi: i am afraid of who i am
    joshua Tiponi: my whole life has been trying to help others
    joshua Tiponi: not myself
    Fael Illyar: Others will sense that.
    joshua Tiponi: i am a well liked person
    joshua Tiponi: but when it comes to friends not many
    joshua Tiponi: at all
    Tarmel Udimo: do you still think it was your fault this happened to you?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    joshua Tiponi: i think it was my fault i could not protect my sister
    Crusty Goldshark: Real life beckons - Joshua - please come here again I hope to see you you again - Be Well :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Crusty :)
    Crusty Goldshark: bye guys

    Crusty has to leave.

    Tarmel Udimo: bye crusty understand
    joshua Tiponi: have a good day
    Fael Illyar: Who gave you the responsibility to protect your sister?
    Tarmel Udimo: I understand
    joshua Tiponi: me
    Tarmel Udimo: this is one of core beliefs that is stopping you from loving yourself and allowing others to love you
    Fael Illyar: Tarmel, "this" being?
    joshua Tiponi: self hate ?
    Tarmel Udimo: the belief that whay happned is josha's fault
    joshua Tiponi: lol
    Fael Illyar: Then a question, how could you have protected your sister back then? Would it have been possible?
    Tarmel Udimo: NO
    joshua Tiponi: no'i was 3 years younger then her
    joshua Tiponi: and not strong enough
    Tarmel Udimo: one is never strong enoug in this situation
    Fael Illyar: how does that translate to being your fault?
    Tarmel Udimo: you were a child and your father was an adult
    joshua Tiponi: because i could have done something to make him hurt me more and her les
    Fael Illyar: aren't you doing the same thing as your father and making unreasonable demands of yourself?
    joshua Tiponi: yep
    joshua Tiponi: and that is one thing i hate
    Fael Illyar: then why keep doing it?
    joshua Tiponi: because i have done it for so long i dont know anything else
    Tarmel Udimo: this will never change until you go back to that child (yourself) and give that child love
    joshua Tiponi: how can you give someone love that does not know what real love is
    joshua Tiponi: ?
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: Love is not doing, not loving is not accepting, doing.
    Tarmel Udimo: you must take that child (you) in your arms in your heart and speak to that younger part of yourself
    joshua Tiponi: all i can see is a young boy filled with hate
    Tarmel Udimo: you must say things like I love you, it is not your fault, you were very brave, you did the best you could do,
    joshua Tiponi: even with my career choices i do them for others
    Fael Illyar: And it's natural for the hate to be there. Given how you were raised. Yet, the only way to have the hate to go away is to love the hate.
    Fael Illyar: and then let go of it.
    joshua Tiponi: idk how to love the hate
    Tarmel Udimo: yes you must speak to the little boy that hates and say its okay to feel that way
    Tarmel Udimo: by speaking to the little boy
    joshua Tiponi: see al i have ever done is bottel it up inside never let go
    Tarmel Udimo: its important to do it in a peaceful place
    joshua Tiponi: using that power to punish people like him
    Tarmel Udimo: exactly.... which is why it si very important to speak to that part of yourself and give love.
    Tarmel Udimo: even if you don't speak sit in silence and send love to that dear sweet child through no fualt of his own found
    Tarmel Udimo: himslef in a very difficult and frightening situation
    joshua Tiponi: i cant remember a sweet kid
    Tarmel Udimo: he's there
    Tarmel Udimo: he's the one that's still trying to be nice
    Fael Illyar: he's there, just so scared he can't show it.
    joshua Tiponi: i made the choice to be nice around 14-15
    joshua Tiponi: by that time all my family was gone
    joshua Tiponi: my sister had taken off
    joshua Tiponi: my mom remaried a preacher of all things
    joshua Tiponi: my brother was in the airforce
    joshua Tiponi: still have never seen him again
    joshua Tiponi: my dad who knows where he is
    Faenik loves wells!
    Tarmel Udimo: yu have beem carrying all of this for a very long time
    Tarmel Udimo: my heart cries for you...
    Tarmel Udimo: but now its is time to put the burden down
    joshua Tiponi: where, because i feel bad just talking to you because u are getting a part og my burden because of this
    joshua Tiponi: and that is wrong to me
    Fael Illyar: Does it not matter if we want to share the burden?
    Tarmel Udimo: we are sharing and I don't feel burdened at all
    joshua Tiponi: i cant alow others to be in pain
    joshua Tiponi: anyone i know gets the best from me
    joshua Tiponi: even to the point it hurts me
    Tarmel Udimo: its about choice, you can choose to make this way of thinking be at the core of your life forever or you can begin little by little to let it go
    joshua Tiponi: but what would i do
    Fael Illyar: Yes, and that's why they left. They can't bear to see you hurting yourself for them.
    joshua Tiponi: all i see out there is struggle
    Fael Illyar: it pains them to see you hurting yourself for them.
    joshua Tiponi: i paid a friends tuition this semmester and they never talked to me again
    joshua Tiponi: and they asked for help
    joshua Tiponi: what did i do wrong
    joshua Tiponi: ?
    Fael Illyar: Likely nothing, although I can't really say not knowing the situation.
    joshua Tiponi: thank you someone that does not assume i appreciate that
    joshua Tiponi: i know that i got to let go of the past
    joshua Tiponi: but it is a hard thing to do
    joshua Tiponi: i cant live in the present tied down to the past
    Fael Illyar: Yes, meditation is one tool that helps in doing that.
    Fael Illyar: But do know it will be painful.
    joshua Tiponi: and i sure cant look to the future
    joshua Tiponi: how do you meditate
    joshua Tiponi: i mean i know the concept
    joshua Tiponi: but i mean you ?
    Fael Illyar: I started by fumbling with the least instruction, all by myself.
    Tarmel Udimo: me too
    joshua Tiponi: least instruction ?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: in practise, you sit legs crossed and let go of things.
    Fael Illyar: feel that nothing (and everything) is there.
    joshua Tiponi: so like being in outer space
    joshua Tiponi: alone yet surrounded
    Fael Illyar: in outer space, you still have yoursef.
    joshua Tiponi: so enter into a place that u dont exsit
    joshua Tiponi: exist
    Fael Illyar: what I'm describing is close to Zen meditation.
    Fael Illyar: other practises use different styles
    Tarmel Udimo: just watching the breath is an easy way to start, ten mins a day
    Fael Illyar: like metta, you pretty much fill yourself with love for everything, no exception
    Fael Illyar: yes, a good starting point is to sit, observing yourself breathing.
    joshua Tiponi: ugg 10 min would be hard
    joshua Tiponi: without hate
    joshua Tiponi: or pain
    Fael Illyar: as long as you can is fine
    Fael Illyar: the idea, though, is to let the pain and hate go.
    Fael Illyar: but if you can't, that's fine too.
    joshua Tiponi: ok so i get the point
    joshua Tiponi: but wouldent that just be living in another reality
    Tarmel Udimo: its important to just be doing it regardless of what comes up
    Fael Illyar: the idea is to quiet down so you can see yourself.
    joshua Tiponi: once you got to the point of doing it all day
    Fael Illyar: see that thoughts are just that, thoughts, they have no power over you, except what you give them.
    Fael Illyar: so another way of expressing it would be allow the thoughts to be but not give them power
    joshua Tiponi: i do something simular when i stretch
    joshua Tiponi: or do ti chi
    Fael Illyar: tai chi is practically meditation
    joshua Tiponi: ok
    Fael Illyar: one form
    joshua Tiponi: because when i do that nothing exiists
    joshua Tiponi: around me
    Fael Illyar: you can do many things in meditative state.
    Fael Illyar: for me, it's expanded to include walking, washing dishes, eating, hanging up my laundry to dry ...
    Fael Illyar: showering
    Fael Illyar: even conversing sometimes.
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: it's the natural state of mind. The state of mind we all have when we're born
    joshua Tiponi: that is true
    joshua Tiponi: young kids see only people
    joshua Tiponi: nothing else
    joshua Tiponi: only good
    Fael Illyar: neither good, nor bad.
    Fael Illyar: good or bad is artificial
    Fael Illyar: taught to us
    Fael Illyar: we don't know the concept without being taught it.
    joshua Tiponi: then what is there a state of suspended animation ?
    Fael Illyar: sorry? I don't understand your question.
    joshua Tiponi: like floating in a flux.... nothing exists...
    joshua Tiponi: so basicly if say i take one person
    joshua Tiponi: and teach them what i call is wrong wrong they see it as wrong
    joshua Tiponi: and it i teach another one that what i see as wrong they see it is right
    joshua Tiponi: and the two will war over that because it is how they were trained
    Faenik: indeed?
    joshua Tiponi: so in an inital state of being we see neither right or wrong
    Fael Illyar: yes
    joshua Tiponi: ok
    joshua Tiponi: well it is 4:07 and i got finals in 5 hours... so i better let you go
    joshua Tiponi: all try and meditate today
    joshua Tiponi: fo al long as i can
    joshua Tiponi: probably 10 seconds if that
    joshua Tiponi: but all keep trying
    Fael Illyar: well, the PaB 9 seconds every 15 minutes might be good for you :)
    Fael Illyar: I use a bell to remind myself every 15 minutes
    joshua Tiponi: ok
    Tarmel Udimo: yes please do however short long doesn't matter and please come back and visit us
    joshua Tiponi: my watch does that
    Fael Illyar: have my computer play a bell sound every 15 minutes
    Fael Illyar: Yes, did you catch the times?
    joshua Tiponi: how do i get back here
    joshua Tiponi: i did not write them down
    joshua Tiponi: can u state them again
    Fael Illyar: first, here's a landmark for this place.
    joshua Tiponi accepted your inventory offer.
    Fael Illyar: you can use it to return here.
    Fael Illyar: the times are 1am, 7am, 1pm, 7pm Second Life Time
    Fael Illyar: you can see the SLT on the upper right corner of the screen.
    Fael Illyar: it's 3:10 AM right now
    Fael Illyar: so, next meeting is in around 4 hours
    joshua Tiponi: how do u make them all with wark and all ?
    Fael Illyar: ah, no need to be at all of them :)
    Fael Illyar: just come to as many as you can :)
    joshua Tiponi: i suld easily be able to make the 1am
    joshua Tiponi: so i just go to the landmarks thing in inventory
    joshua Tiponi: and click the white pagoda
    Fael Illyar: doubleclick, yes :)
    joshua Tiponi: ok
    Fael Illyar: that will teleport you here.
    joshua Tiponi: good deal
    joshua Tiponi: i got to get going though... i am about ready to pass out this has been a hard week
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Joshua :)
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Tarmel Udimo: okay see you later
    Fael Illyar: I do hope to see you again here :)
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    joshua Tiponi: you both have a hood day or night where ever you are
    joshua Tiponi: all be back
    Fael Illyar waves.
    Tarmel Udimo: great!
    joshua Tiponi: night
    joshua Tiponi: i dont say bye
    joshua Tiponi: it is to long term
    Tarmel Udimo: ok
    joshua Tiponi: maybe a bad habit
    joshua Tiponi: lol
    joshua Tiponi accepted your inventory offer.
    Fael Illyar: you can also get a notecard from the info marker outside this place.
    joshua Tiponi: ok
    joshua Tiponi: night
    joshua Tiponi: lol i just got to figure out how to log out
    joshua Tiponi: haha
    Fael Illyar: open the file menu, choose quit :)
    joshua Tiponi: ok thank you
    joshua Tiponi: have a good day

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