2008.12.12 13:00 - Velocity is Tough

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    The guardian for this session was Solobill, the comments are his.

    I arrived at the Pavilion to find Pila and Scathach already there.

    Solobill Laville: Hi, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: hi Solobill
    Pila Mulligan: how are you?
    Solobill Laville: Aloha!
    Solobill Laville: fine, thanks, and you?
    Pila Mulligan: fine also, thanks
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Scath
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Solobill
    Pila Mulligan: hi Scathach
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Pila
    Solobill Laville: How are you today, Scathach?
    Scathach Rhiadra: fine ty:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: and you?
    Solobill Laville: Good, thanks
    Solobill Laville: Have you been exploring any type of PaB practice?
    Solobill Laville: (question to either of you) :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: well, I've been trying to do the 9 sec practice with some regularity
    Solobill Laville: great
    Scathach Rhiadra: but its difficult to remember every 15 mins:)
    Solobill Laville: ah, would you like to do it every 15 minutes?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, its such a short time, and it does 'centre 'you so to speak
    Solobill Laville: Are you at a computer most of the day?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, and surrounded by people
    Solobill Laville: hmmm...was going to suggest a mindful clock program, but would it bother the other folks...
    Solobill Laville: http://www.stillwatermpc.org/clock.htm
    Solobill Laville: I use one, but i didn't for a long time
    Scathach Rhiadra: that is a good idea, but our computers are very locked-down for security, can't install programs
    Solobill Laville: ahhh

    Tarmel joins us, quickly followed by Ramana, a first-timer and friend of Pila's.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Tarmel
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: hi all
    Pila Mulligan: Ramana is a good friend from SL
    Solobill Laville: We were just chatting about trying to maintain 15 minutes without a clock!
    Ramana Sweetwater: Good evening, good morning, wherever you are sitting :)
    Solobill Laville: Welcome, Ramana
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ramana
    Tarmel Udimo: hi ramana
    Solobill Laville: We publish our chats to the internet, are you OK with that?
    Solobill Laville: (guess I should ask if you've been here before first...)
    Ramana Sweetwater: No problem, if you look my first life page on my profile you see I am only one
    Solobill Laville reads and smiles
    Pila Mulligan: Ramana, part of the PlayasBeing group's method is to pause for 9 seconds every fifteen minutes to reflect on a meditative condition, during the day
    Ramana Sweetwater: well, I guess I'll be able to do that ;)
    Solobill Laville: i was just saying that I use a Mindful Clock on my laptop to help me be every 15.. :)
    Solobill Laville: Though I didn't used to want that regularity, personally
    Ramana Sweetwater: To be honest, it sounds like a nice idea, when I finally understood it from the notecard, but it also seems somehow as a kind of enforcement to .... spontaneity?
    Solobill Laville: ah, how so, Ram?
    Ramana Sweetwater: well, I would spent a lot of time concentrating on that, as it sounds to me how you explain that with your clock. but ok. I will first give it a try .
    Tarmel Udimo: my understanding was that you didn't need to watch the clock, I think this
    Tarmel Udimo: is perhaps something that has deveveloped as a longing to do this on solo's part

    Wol joins us next.

    Pila Mulligan: hello Wol
    Solobill Laville: Hey, Wol
    Wol Euler: hello everyone
    Solobill Laville: Yes, to clarify it all a bit
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol
    Ramana Sweetwater: Hello Wol
    Solobill Laville: The general idea is to stop, drop what you have, and see what is left
    Tarmel Udimo: hey wol, long time no see:)
    Wol Euler: heheeh
    Solobill Laville: every 15 minutes, for 9 seconds
    Solobill Laville: But, of course whatever feels right for you is what is best
    Ramana Sweetwater: ok, let me give you an example of what I did the last weeks for ~80 hours a week: SL-scripting.
    Solobill Laville: eee
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Wol Euler: mm?
    Wol Euler: .
    Ramana Sweetwater: So when I need to think 4 times an hour about a pause, that is sure not in rhythm with my personal timing of creative thinking
    Solobill Laville: Right
    Wol Euler: then don't do it four times an hour :)
    Wol Euler: you do take pauses, though?
    Solobill Laville: But the idea is not to really think, or yes, as you wish to
    Wol Euler: naturally occuring, for tea or coffee or looking out the window?

    Snapshot 12 12 08_001.jpg


    Yes, Wol! It is really not so much WHAT you do, but primarily THAT you do, with perhaps a tinch of HOW you do...But really, just making the leap to DO at all with a bit of commitment is significant.

    Ramana Sweetwater: But please excuse my opposition, basically I appreciate such mental experiments! Sometimes only a pause every two hours, yes
    Wol Euler: right, so do it then :)
    Solobill Laville: Well, I think it is a great topic for discussion...that
    Ramana Sweetwater: I will!
    Wol Euler: that's how I do it too.
    Solobill Laville: The "transition" into and re-entry from, this type of practice, during working activity
    Tarmel Udimo: I do it when ever I remember and sometimes I purposefully trigger it often even within the 15min cycle
    Ramana Sweetwater: Maybe it could be expanded for the more advanced apprentices: they must log out from SL hahaha
    Tarmel Udimo: smile
    Solobill Laville: :)

    Tarmel shared her practice with us.

    Tarmel Udimo: what I have noticed which I am enjoying is that when I am doing 9 secs
    Tarmel Udimo: the first thing that happens now is that my body takes a few very deep breaths
    Tarmel Udimo: which makes the shift easier and brings into perspective about what we're doing here in the first place
    Solobill Laville nods
    Pila Mulligan: I am retired, I tend to doze off about every 15 minutes
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Tarmel Udimo: smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: this automatic breathing by the body is telling me something about the process
    Ramana Sweetwater: I am smoker, in big danger to use the 9 secs to light a cigarette ;)
    Solobill Laville: What do you think the breathing is telling you Tarmel?
    Tarmel Udimo: still working on it, but it feels that the 9 secs are nourishing us in away perhaps
    Tarmel Udimo: that we don't even recognise because we stay so focused on the mind....
    Solobill Laville: So your breathing allows you to un-focus on the mind?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes but it feels deeper than that
    Pila Mulligan: Baba Muktananda, a guru, once said 'velocity is tough' -- referring, I think to the compelling pace of a work day versus a still internal condition
    Solobill Laville: yes, that integration is a primary practice of mine
    Tarmel Udimo: the breathing?
    Solobill Laville: but subtle changes can be profound
    Solobill Laville: Yes, to both what you said (Tarmel) and Pila's comment
    Solobill Laville: Since Wednesday I've been doing a "10 breaths" practice
    Solobill Laville: Every 15 minutes (as possible)
    Wol Euler: m?
    Pila Mulligan: nice idea Solo
    Pila Mulligan: more than 9 seconds
    Solobill Laville: Takes about 45 seconds...
    Tarmel Udimo: and the practice?
    Solobill Laville: Well, the same as my longer meditiations
    Solobill Laville: Kind of a mini-shikan taza
    Solobill Laville: Unifying body and mind
    Solobill Laville: Letting go and focusing on no-thought
    Solobill Laville: Very tough at work ;)

    I posted a brief description to the wiki: http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?title=Guardians%27_Contributions/Solobill/Solo%27s_PaB_-_10_Breaths

    Ramana Sweetwater: I have a cat who often crosses my keyboard, not every 15min, but maybe every half an hour, so I have an idea of this interruption of the mental routine too
    Solobill Laville: That could be a work timer, Ram!
    Solobill Laville: Your Mindful Cat
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Tarmel Udimo: cats very intuitive helping you perhaps :)
    Ramana Sweetwater: he is pure nature and finds my work very artificial, needs to bring me back to my body base
    Wol Euler smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: without the body we are nothing, no point just having a mind - in fact some would argue its is even more precious
    Ramana Sweetwater: many say, it was all in the mind though...
    Tarmel Udimo: of course but the body is an amazing manifestation of this Mind
    Ramana Sweetwater: ah ok, also a good view
    Scathach Rhiadra: what about people who are paralized from the neck down?
    Pila Mulligan: these exercises can also help them, Scath
    Pila Mulligan: I have seen it
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I agree
    Tarmel Udimo: and its not about holding up the body as better like body builders or anything
    Scathach Rhiadra: I was thinking of their view of the body
    Tarmel Udimo: but the body can teach us
    Pila Mulligan: have you ever heard an amputee complain about an itch on their mssing limb? it happens
    Ramana Sweetwater: I know that from missing teeth!
    Tarmel Udimo: yes this would be very big learning and I am grateful to not have to have this as part of this life's learning
    Pila Mulligan: consciousness retains an image of the body, even when it does not function or parts are not there
    Tarmel Udimo: does this go on forever?
    Pila Mulligan: for a while, at least, it seems
    Tarmel Udimo: I was watching a video On TED about a woman who is looking at nature and suggesting to scientists
    Solobill Laville was just on the TED page...
    Tarmel Udimo: that by copying nature they can discover better ways than 'technology' I think
    Ramana Sweetwater: body and mind should more be regarded as a continuum, nothing so separated
    Tarmel Udimo: eventually we will begin doing that with the way the body functions
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I agree
    Pila Mulligan: nature is the real place where we live, and it is a teacher, for sure
    Solobill Laville: Some would argue that it is fact our consciousness that separates body and mind
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Solobill Laville: Until we figure out how to get 'em back together again! ;)
    Pila Mulligan: I would agree
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Pila Mulligan: wu chi divided by tai chi in the Chinese metaphor
    Solobill Laville: ah
    Pila Mulligan: the circle made into yin and yang

    Gen joined our party.

    Pila Mulligan: hi genesis
    Wol Euler: hello gen
    Solobill Laville: Heya, Gen
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gen
    Tarmel Udimo: hi genesis
    Ramana Sweetwater: Hy!
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Pila, Wol, Solobill, Tarmel, Ramana, Scathach!
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Pila Mulligan: how are you ?
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: dandy
    genesis Zhangsun: you?
    Pila Mulligan: nifty :)
    Solobill Laville: peachy
    genesis Zhangsun: just super
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Wol Euler chuckles
    genesis Zhangsun: didn't mean to cut off the conversation :)
    Pila Mulligan: just before you arrived: [13:35] Solobill Laville: Some would argue that it is fact our consciousness that separates body and mind
    Pila Mulligan: I agreed
    Ramana Sweetwater: I didn't but I do now ;)
    genesis Zhangsun: thats an interesting way to think about Solobill
    Tarmel Udimo: why did you change your mind?
    Pila Mulligan: or maybe mind separate body and consciousness :)
    Ramana Sweetwater: sorry, that was unnecessary humoristically meant, Tarmel ;)
    genesis Zhangsun: could also be the thing that unifies those thing "in consciousness"
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes, that was also my point genesis
    Pila Mulligan: consciousness can be a vehicle for that
    Solobill Laville: and there's probably a difference, significant, between consciousness and self-conscious (e.g. aware of self as separate)
    Tarmel Udimo: hummmm
    Solobill Laville: the latter was my suggested meaning...
    Ramana Sweetwater: mind/consciousness are probably as complex if not more than the complicated body...
    Solobill Laville: too true...
    Ramana Sweetwater: yet we have less words for it
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps the former being neutral for either "unification" or "discrimination" and the latter as our use of it to divide the world we see?
    genesis Zhangsun: therefore "self conscious" as within in the discrimination realm and "consciousness" as neutral
    genesis Zhangsun: in case not clear :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: hummmm yes because I think it is the mind that complicates things, we keep grasping for answers as to what consciousness is but it is experiential
    Solobill Laville: yes, there's another subtlety
    Solobill Laville: the idea of consciousness vs. awareness, perhaps
    genesis Zhangsun: yes what differentiates those two?
    Pila Mulligan: the mind divides things to describe them
    Ramana Sweetwater: I am conscious still in a dream but not aware of the outer world e.g.?
    genesis Zhangsun: thats a nice distinction Ramana
    Ramana Sweetwater: but one could use the words also in opposite meaning in that example...
    Solobill Laville: yes, we'd have to have a shared meaning for those terms
    Solobill Laville: I'd offer awareness as a sort of scale towards our experiential knowledge of Reality (or your word here)
    Pila Mulligan: reality seems to be a common base for qualifying words -- I am happy it is such a useful term
    Tarmel Udimo: and consciousness?
    Solobill Laville: hmm, trickier
    Solobill Laville: Anyone?
    Tarmel Udimo: are they different for me they are they have the same use in my head
    Ramana Sweetwater: For me as german native speaker the definition of terms in foreign language is even more abstract I must say
    Solobill Laville: yes, probably it is different for most of us, which is why sometimes agreeing on using a definition can be fruitful
    Solobill Laville: I bet, Ram!

    More definitions ;)

    Pila Mulligan: here's a fun one: sensory v. sentient
    Tarmel Udimo: or we could say awareness is more 'personal' and conscious more imporsonal but I know this gets us into
    tricky waters as there is no-self
    Solobill Laville: one's an adjective and one's a noun?
    Tarmel Udimo: smile
    Tarmel Udimo: so when I am expereincing consciousness i am being aware
    genesis Zhangsun: Well to make it more complicated for a second how many types of consciousness can we identify?
    Solobill Laville: Group?
    genesis Zhangsun: Some would say there is personal consciousness and the collective consciousness and then the collective
    uncounscious of course
    Pila Mulligan: nine
    genesis Zhangsun: hehe :)
    Ramana Sweetwater: sub-, un-, high-...
    genesis Zhangsun: list em out Pila
    Pila Mulligan: oh please, not now gen :)
    Ramana Sweetwater: who tells about 9 different?
    Wol Euler: ten: Pila forgot "false"


    Pila Mulligan: survivial, sex, power, compassion, knowledge, wisdom, dharma, consesnsus
    Pila Mulligan: 9 forms of consiousness :)
    Pila Mulligan: or tpypes
    Pila Mulligan: with a typo
    genesis Zhangsun: and types of awareness?
    Pila Mulligan: probably the same
    Tarmel Udimo: :) which all merge into one or fracture into many
    Ramana Sweetwater: these types seem the same useful as arbitrary to me ;)
    Pila Mulligan: yes Tarmel
    Pila Mulligan: they are
    Tarmel Udimo: awarenesss is an activity
    Pila Mulligan: but it was just a fun answer to a tough question -- I added consensus to the chakra forms because I think it is determinative in modern awareness
    Solobill Laville: in what context, Pila?
    Ramana Sweetwater: ok, now I understand how you came to that idea :)
    genesis Zhangsun: I liked them Pila
    Pila Mulligan: well, how many times have you seen freinds debate an idea and then come to a consensus?
    Pila Mulligan: and then they leave with a common iunderstanding
    Pila Mulligan: based on the consesnsus
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps that is "collective"?
    Solobill Laville: ah...not my def. of awareness
    Ramana Sweetwater: consensus is like 1+1=3
    Pila Mulligan: yes, collective is a fair term gen
    Pila Mulligan: even that Ramana

    Gen drops a space-time-bomb...

    genesis Zhangsun: I just had a thought that perhaps consciousness happens in space while awareness happens in time?
    Solobill Laville: oh, boy ;)
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Pila Mulligan: but ultimately whole societies are bound to a degree by their consesnus view of the world
    genesis Zhangsun: it just came to me when Tarmel said awareness is a process
    Tarmel Udimo: oh boy anyone remeber jane roberts and SETH
    Pila Mulligan: nie matrix genesis
    Pila Mulligan: nice*
    Pila Mulligan: no Tarmel, not me
    Ramana Sweetwater: if I translate both with LEO on the web, the basic meaning is the same. Only if used in phrases there are slight differences
    Solobill Laville shakes his head to Tarmel's question
    Tarmel Udimo: LEO?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes and often I think of consciousness as something already existing in space which you then get awareness of through time
    Ramana Sweetwater: german/english translation = leo
    Ramana Sweetwater: just a dictionary
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhhh nice one gen

    Pila points out that we've spent an hour already and there is more on the SL menu today for most...

    Pila Mulligan: it is approach time for the final debate on phenomenology
    Tarmel Udimo: :-)
    Pila Mulligan: ing*
    genesis Zhangsun: yes!
    genesis Zhangsun: are you all coming over?
    Tarmel Udimo: SETH was being channled by Jane roberts - she was writing in the 70's I think
    Pila Mulligan: yes gen
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Solobill Laville: ah
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes
    Pila Mulligan: oh, Seth, I rememebr Tarmel, yes
    Wol Euler: oh yes!
    Solobill Laville: Nope, I am not able to make it this time
    Solobill Laville: Have fun though!
    genesis Zhangsun: ok :)
    genesis Zhangsun: thanks
    genesis Zhangsun: better head over there!
    Solobill Laville: ok, bye
    genesis Zhangsun: Nice to see you all!
    Tarmel Udimo: and most people thought she was a fake except SETH kept bringing up everything that we talk about here
    genesis Zhangsun: Nice to see you Solobill!
    Pila Mulligan: did Seth make a time and space comment?
    Solobill Laville smiles at Gen
    Ramana Sweetwater: bye solo!
    Tarmel Udimo: yes very big on space time
    Pila Mulligan: bye Solo
    Solobill Laville: bye, Ram nice to meet you
    Wol Euler: bye solo, enjoy the weekend
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye solobill
    Tarmel Udimo: talked about consciousness blinking in and out
    Pila Mulligan: yes, we do that here :)
    Wol Euler: bye for now, everyone.
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye:)
    Ramana Sweetwater: bye bye :)
    Solobill Laville: See ya Pila, Scath, Tarmle, and Ms. Euler...
    Tarmel Udimo: see you at the cafe
    Pila Mulligan: going to the cafe now -- bye til later
    Tarmel Udimo: coming you two
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