2008.12.13 13:00 - The Meaning of Aloha

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    The guardian for this session was Storm Nordwind. The comments are Storm's.

    We started talking about the Great Kira Cafe Fire.

    We started chatting
    Wol Euler: hello storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hello Wol
    Wol Euler: hello wester
    Storm Nordwind: Hello Wester
    Wester Kiranov: hi storm, wol
    Storm Nordwind: Please excuse me if I end up not being very talkative tonight. No problem apart from being tired and needing an early night! :)
    Wol Euler: :)

    I lied. I ended up talking quite a bit! :-/

    Wol Euler: were you rebuilding?
    Storm Nordwind: No not yet. But it seems I have to as we will not yet the roll-back
    Wol Euler: :(
    Storm Nordwind: *get
    Storm Nordwind: We lost about 2000 prims in the fire, which got returned to me as 8 complex objects
    Wester Kiranov: :(
    Storm Nordwind: Theoretically it is possible to reinstate them
    Storm Nordwind: But it needs a lot of care and time and a lag free connection
    Wol Euler: o.O
    Storm Nordwind: And probably a degree of concentration that I don't have tonight!
    Storm Nordwind: And you pretty much have one chance to get it right with each object
    Storm Nordwind: Otherwise, if you drop it by accident, you end up with dispersed bits everywhere
    Storm Nordwind: That's why you need lag free
    Wol Euler thinks. I thought I'd heard that if you go into edit mode before rezzing something, then that object is activated as it appears. You should then be able to link the objects...
    Wol Euler: ah wait, there is a maximum distance between children of a linked set :(
    Storm Nordwind: You're making an assumption there - ah yes that's it
    Wol Euler: mmhmm. damn.
    Storm Nordwind: And multiple objects can be VERY far apart in their components
    Storm Nordwind: AND...
    Wol Euler sighs.
    Storm Nordwind: It assumes you have edit rights on all the bits
    Storm Nordwind: Which I don't of course
    Storm Nordwind: Because many things are bought
    Wol Euler sighs. Damn and blast.
    Storm Nordwind shrugs
    Wol Euler: hello crusty
    Storm Nordwind: But it's OK. There's just a lot of work to do
    Storm Nordwind: It will inconvenience a few people at the Cafe
    Storm Nordwind: And the place won't look attractive for a while
    Storm Nordwind: But it's only time
    Crusty Goldshark: hi everyone
    Storm Nordwind: And effort
    Wol Euler: What a mess.
    Wester Kiranov: hi crusty
    Wol Euler: I would like to suggest that we write a note about this for the Wiki and for building groups, to explain what went wrong and how to avoid it.
    Crusty Goldshark: hi Wester
    Storm Nordwind: I hope it won't affect anyone else
    Wol Euler: we probably aren't the only people who share allocations like this to build complex objects
    Storm Nordwind: True true
    Storm Nordwind: The main problem is that LL give you NO WARNING at all that this is about to happen
    Wol Euler: right!
    Storm Nordwind: After all, if they can make it happen, they can warn about it
    Storm Nordwind: And they won't roll back mainland sims
    Storm Nordwind: So it's a rebuild
    Wol Euler: aaaaah.
    Wol Euler: but they would possibly have rolled back a private sim?
    Storm Nordwind: They are even reluctant to do that for some reason
    Storm Nordwind: We don't own all the sim
    Storm Nordwind: However, they have the stats
    Storm Nordwind: They could prove (or disprove) that no owner of another plot logged on or changed inventory on the land
    Storm Nordwind: But they won't
    Wol Euler: probably worried about setting precedents.
    Storm Nordwind: Sure. But in the end it will probably be a good advert for OpenSim
    Storm Nordwind: Anyway, you don't want to hear about that. It's only work that needs to be done!
    Wol Euler makes gestures of sympathy and encouragement.
    Storm Nordwind appreciates that :)
    Storm Nordwind: I think all I would ask is patience while it is restored. I can only work part-time on it and it is a busy time of year.
    Wol Euler nods. sure.

    As it was, I got only three hours sleep the night following this session in the pavilion. Waking at 4:30 and not able to get to sleep again for an hour, I went to the wreck of the Cafe and worked. Four and a half hours later, our Cafe was reborn!

    Wester Kiranov: There is a nice garden still ;)
    Wol Euler: those six-way chairs are pretty cool, actually.
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    Storm Nordwind: Glad you like them
    Wester Kiranov: i think they're cool too
    Storm Nordwind: My partner Jobe designed them and I modded them and put the poses in
    Storm Nordwind: There are (were) about 80 in the restaurant section
    Storm Nordwind: I just needed an emergency sitting area by the landing point
    Storm Nordwind: I was very pleased at the debate last night to see most of them used!

    The debate was between Pema and Gilles on the subject of Phenomenology. After the debate, people noticed that Gilles's long tail had caught an ember and was smouldering.

    We lapsed into silence until I noticed daggers at Wol's shoulders.

    Storm Nordwind: I notice Wol that you have come armed today! Is there a story behind that?
    Wol Euler chuckles. Not really, just a kind of fashion statement
    Wol Euler: This is from AVid, Darwin is into weaponry lately :)
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Storm Nordwind: I was going to learn Tai Chi sword form once before I moved away from my teacher
    Wol Euler: ah
    Wol Euler: I am interested in kendo and such, so it's not completely irrelevant to Wol
    Wol Euler: not just fashion...
    Storm Nordwind: I see
    Wol Euler: but my connection is too slow! (sobs)
    Storm Nordwind: I could upgrade - but I'll just wait for 2 or 3 months
    Storm Nordwind: And then I'll have something 12x this speed
    Wol Euler: ooooh.
    Storm Nordwind: Fast cable deals in Colorado
    Wol Euler: germany is so low-tech :(
    Storm Nordwind: Perhaps different countries have their own advantages
    Storm Nordwind: For example, I love to visit Malaysia and tour temples and meet friends. But their Internet backbone is pedestrian
    Wol Euler nods.
    Storm Nordwind: My two sanghas (Buddhist communities) are very different too, in Scotland and Colorado. Both areas have their pluses and minuses
    Storm Nordwind: It's interesting to see the common threads in the diversity though

    Of course, SL has many communities too - some close, some loose, some established, some transient... well ALL transient really!

    Crusty Goldshark: Which is your Sanghain Scotland?
    Storm Nordwind: I live in Glasgow. There are several here.
    Storm Nordwind: I frequent the Kadampa one
    Crusty Goldshark: Ah yes I am in London and we have one quite near here
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Storm Nordwind: I have not been to any in London, being 400 miles away
    Storm Nordwind: But it is only a four hour drive to the Mother Centre in the Lake District
    Crusty Goldshark: I have been to Samye Ling in Scotland
    Storm Nordwind: Yes that is popular. And I have a close German/American friend who goes to Throssel Hole in the border region
    Storm Nordwind: That's a Zen place
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes - never been - but was planning to this year - maybe next year
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Storm Nordwind: And of course Tharpaland International retreat Centre is only 90 minutes south of Glasgow. That has been going decades
    Crusty Goldshark: Never heard of that

    Talking about the lovely Tharpaland set me thinking about retreats and their effects in general.

    Storm Nordwind: That's an interesting idea actually... whether retreats are helpful to Play as Being explorations. What do you think Wol?

    Of course Wol was thinking about one retreat in particular!

    Wol Euler: well, I'm hoping htey will be!
    Wol Euler: (thinking of August)
    Storm Nordwind: Yes indeed
    Storm Nordwind: It's certainly worth finding out at the very least
    Wol Euler: I wouldn't go all that way if I thought it were just a social meet-up
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Wol Euler: I am expecting it to be useful, enriching
    Wester Kiranov: It probably will be
    Wester Kiranov: if only because you set time apart to make your mind settle a bit
    Wol Euler nods
    Storm Nordwind: I suspect it will be useful on many levels
    Storm Nordwind: Even the act of just making the journey will, I suspect, be a welcome transition from everyday existence
    Wester Kiranov: I'm pretty sure there was another PaB conversation about this a few days ago
    Storm Nordwind: You are probably right. Sadly I don't get to them all!
    Wester Kiranov: It would be an interesting exercise in sleep deprivation ;)
    Storm Nordwind: Pema certainly did that in the early days
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wester Kiranov: Yes, he still comes to an amazing number of meetings
    Storm Nordwind: His commitment is a constant inspiration
    Wol Euler: indeed
    Storm Nordwind: Not to mention his knowledge, his erudition etc etc etc
    Storm Nordwind is looking at Crusty's hat and thinking of the possibility of a PaB Secret Santa event! .... Hmmm...

    Gaya joined us.

    Storm Nordwind: Hello Gaya!
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Crusty Goldshark: hi gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry I'm so late...
    Wol Euler: hello gaya
    Wester Kiranov: hi gaya
    Wol Euler: were you at Blue Lotus?
    Storm Nordwind: What is Blue Lotus?
    Gaya Ethaniel: No ^^ I didn't remember to change
    Gaya Ethaniel: Oh it's my geisha school Storm ^^
    Storm Nordwind: I see!
    Storm Nordwind: Well it looks very fetching! :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^___^ thank you. Dark blue is the correct colour for December I've learnt
    Gaya Ethaniel: What's the topic by the way?
    Wol Euler: so far, geekery building and praise of Pema :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Storm Nordwind: Well... we ranted about Cafe Fires for a while, sidetracked onto Buddhist centres in the UK and then onto Pema, yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds interesting ^^
    Storm Nordwind: Gaya is very kindly equipping the rebuild with fire extinguishers :)
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^;

    And so it was within a day or so. The rebuilt Cafe now has five fire extinguishers placed at strategic points.

    Wol Euler: sad that Pema's many talents didn't include cookery
    Storm Nordwind: Oh and we talked a little about the August retreat
    Storm Nordwind: Yes Wol!
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah!
    Storm Nordwind: That's the last time I ask for a flambe
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Wester Kiranov: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles

    We discussed the summer retreat again and the two ideas mooted for its location.

    Gaya Ethaniel: You are planning to attend the retreat Storm right?
    Storm Nordwind: Yes I am
    Storm Nordwind: I did some research into the mountain option, although most seem to prefer California so far
    Gaya Ethaniel: Redwood?
    Wol Euler nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Surely not on the beach ^^
    Wol Euler: some SL friends of mine will be in SF in August, it seems ideal chance to meet
    Storm Nordwind does not know about the West Coast possibility details
    Wol Euler: but that need not dictate the group's actions :)
    Storm Nordwind: My choice was for a series of log cabins in the Rockies above Estes Park. I've stayed there twice before.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds nice ^^
    Storm Nordwind: Fabulous scenery
    Storm Nordwind: The disadvantages are: a few people have to travel further (those that are near Berkeley) and, for some, possibly the high altitude
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Storm Nordwind: But the mountain and forest walks are ideal for meditation without distraction
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds like you enjoyed your visits to the area ^^
    Storm Nordwind: Still - I'll go with the flow and end up where we end up! No attachment...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^

    I mentioned how I knew many people who had been on much longer retreats.

    Storm Nordwind: And I am intrigued to see whether retreats are beneficial to PaB and ancillary practices
    Storm Nordwind: Most people in my Sangha have been on one or more three month retreats (not PaB of course!) and they are all full of good words for it being worthwhile
    Gaya Ethaniel: 3 months?!
    Storm Nordwind: Yes!
    Storm Nordwind: It's called the "Snows Retreat"
    Wol Euler: good god
    Gaya Ethaniel: Goodness... max for me is 1 week...
    Gaya Ethaniel: 3 months are norm for monks that I know...
    Wol Euler can't imagine being away from RL for three months...
    Gaya Ethaniel: But not lay people...
    Wol Euler: hello pila
    Storm Nordwind: It's a more recent offering at the Tharpaland International Retreat Centre. I think it's only been on offer for the last 10 years
    Crusty Goldshark: Can't imagine being in RL for 3 months . . .
    Gaya Ethaniel googles Tharpaland International Retreat Centre...
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow... it really is for 3 months...

    Pila arrived.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Pila ^^
    Pila Mulligan: hi
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Pila
    Wester Kiranov: hi pila
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Pila
    Pila Mulligan: I hope everyone is well and happy
    Wol Euler smiels and nods. And yourself?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well ty yourself?
    Pila Mulligan: aye
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Storm Nordwind wonders (since he's in Scotland) whether he should also say "Aye" or even "Och aye"
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Why did you move to Scotland Storm?
    Gaya Ethaniel: [assuming you lived in England before]
    Crusty Goldshark: Aye - seems a little egotistical (I)

    Pila had a fascinating revelation about the word "Aye"

    Pila Mulligan: aye is used in Hawaiian the same as in Scottish, Storm
    Storm Nordwind: A new job
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Storm Nordwind: Fascinating Pila
    Pila Mulligan: as yes or an affirmation
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Storm Nordwind: Gaya - I had to count up my so-called permanent residential addresses the other day for Immigration forms...
    Storm Nordwind: I found I'd had 40 in my lifetime, 38 of them in England and 2 in Scotland.
    Pila Mulligan: quite a few
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow...
    Gaya Ethaniel: 9 so far...
    Wol Euler: wow indeed
    Gaya Ethaniel: And Malaysia Storm?
    Wester Kiranov: 7, and all within a 10-mile radius of each other
    Wol Euler: eight, I think.
    Storm Nordwind: Malaysia is a work destination. I try and find excuses to stay as long as I can. Korea and Japan are also infrequent work destinations
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ^^
    Wol Euler: wester, that is interesting.

    Pila asked me about the teaching and research I'd done some years ago that I'd mentioned the other day.

    Pila Mulligan: Storm, I was interested in your brief comment here the other day about studies with runes ... is it something you can elaborate upon easily?
    Storm Nordwind: Ah yes runes. I can go briefly into it.
    Wol Euler: you must be happy where you are, then:)
    Storm Nordwind: I can try to summarise
    Crusty Goldshark: time for me o go - bye guys
    Storm Nordwind: OK Crusty. Bye for now
    Pila Mulligan: please :) -- bye Crusty
    Storm Nordwind: I was a Heathen for many years
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Storm Nordwind: A heathen is one of very many pagan religions
    Storm Nordwind: And I have studied divination of all kinds for the last 35 years
    Gaya Ethaniel: oops missed Crusty
    Storm Nordwind: I came across runes in the 1970s
    Storm Nordwind: And most people thought they were to do with divination
    Storm Nordwind: But they're not
    Storm Nordwind: That is only a very modern overlay
    Storm Nordwind: I knew they were used for magical purposes and did my own research
    Storm Nordwind: And later I formed a long-term study group on them
    Storm Nordwind: I had a bunch of students doing intensive work over an 18 month period
    Storm Nordwind: And that included some meditation work
    Storm Nordwind: But it was first based on historical research
    Storm Nordwind: Then we saw if there were any gaps to fill in
    Storm Nordwind: and we attempted to do so in definitive ways
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow... sounds 'exotic' ^^
    Pila Mulligan: interesting
    Storm Nordwind: It was an attempt to counteract the misinformation that abounded on them
    Storm Nordwind: Gaya, runes were a writing system of the North European peoples
    Storm Nordwind: Starting from around 2000 ago to approx 1000
    Storm Nordwind: But they seemed to be used for more than that, according to documents
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... and remembers Tolkien heheheh
    Storm Nordwind: Ah yes... I wonder whether he did them a service or a disservice! :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Storm Nordwind: Tolkien's runes bear a passing resemblance to historical runes in looks, but not in sound, meaning or effect
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Pila Mulligan: were you able to identify the effects of sepcific runes?
    Storm Nordwind: Yes we were
    Storm Nordwind is being coy about it!
    Pila Mulligan: what were some of their functions?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Storm Nordwind: Well I'd rather not get too specific, but some could be used for healing, some for protection, and some for quite the opposite.
    Pila Mulligan: thanks -- cool
    Gaya Ethaniel imagines Storm in a black hooded robe... better be careful what I say to him ^^;
    Pila Mulligan: I suppose as you studied divination you came upon the i Ching?
    Storm Nordwind laughs at Gaya's remark
    Pila Mulligan: the Chinese Book of Changes
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Storm Nordwind: The I Ching was the first thing I studied - in 1973
    Pila Mulligan: it also is associated within divination, but I think it is much more valuable than just that
    Storm Nordwind: Sure
    Storm Nordwind: Many of the more ancient systems are
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: duality and archetypes :)
    Storm Nordwind: Well I approached from very pragmatic directions and appreciated but did not often apply Jungian ideas

    Gaya now took me by surprise!

    Gaya Ethaniel: Now I'm curious Storm... what attracts you to PaB?
    Storm Nordwind: That's a terrific question Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^___^ terrific heh...
    Storm Nordwind: Several things...
    Storm Nordwind: It's a great practical exercise. It was a research project for myself personally at first. To see what it could achieve.
    Storm Nordwind: Then I was also attracted by the energy and imagination of its founder. I suspect I would have gladly have been involved in a research project with him whatever it was, even if it was just counting pobble beads
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Wol Euler: :)

    It's true!

    Storm Nordwind: And the later exercises were illuminating to say the least
    Storm Nordwind: But even at the beginning, it was synchronous with a life-changing meditation experience I had
    Storm Nordwind: So it seemed to be the right thing at the right time
    Storm Nordwind: As it has proved to be the case
    Storm Nordwind: The 9 second meditation is a nice tool. Very effective
    Gaya Ethaniel: You have already practised meditations before you came to PaB, more than myself but similar... do you think PaB exercises are suitable for people who are totally new to meditations? Especially given this is a peer-based group?
    Storm Nordwind: Yes I do
    Storm Nordwind: In fact it is especially suitable because there is no religious or pseudo-spiritual overlay

    That's true too, but I could see Gaya had a particular point in mind and I asked her to tell us.

    Storm Nordwind: What do you think Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I've been talking to a friend about this
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can't say because I'm not new to meditation...
    Gaya Ethaniel: From my point of view I wondered whether support from peers are enough without a guidance
    Storm Nordwind: A very good question
    Gaya Ethaniel: ie a teacher, who knows you well
    Storm Nordwind: If this were an established practice with a long lineage, I'd have to say that a teacher would be essential
    Storm Nordwind: But this is in some ways a benign research practice. I have seen no risks in it so far
    Gaya Ethaniel: Pausing stopping is not a new practice though imo... 9 sec is but often short pauses are recommended
    Storm Nordwind: Yes gaya
    Storm Nordwind: And we all contribute to the expanding knowledge of PaB
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not talking about risks as such... whether it's enough or people who are new to meditation need more support in terms of reading or discussing etc
    Pila Mulligan: maybe ths can lead them to real life learning situations
    Storm Nordwind: yes perhaps Pila
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... I suggested RL groups locally... explore more
    Gaya Ethaniel: Whatever the religions or traditions... something suitable for each person
    Wester Kiranov: I'm sorry but I really have to leave - my son woke me up a bit too early this morning so I'll try to get some sleep now. I'll read the rest in the log, this was and is all very interesting.
    Storm Nordwind: You will know already that Pema does not want to set himself up as a teacher... although he is certainly an inspiration and catalyst

    Wester left us...

    Pila Mulligan: bye Wester
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day Wester ^^
    Storm Nordwind: Bye Wester
    Wol Euler: goodnight wester, sleep well
    Wester Kiranov: namaste
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste

    ...and we continued talking about how to support the learning and practising process in PaB. Is it possible to act as teacher in remote circumstances, even if it feels as though we're very close?

    Storm Nordwind: But the point remains Gaya...
    Storm Nordwind: Just because Pema does not want a teacher role, does not definitely mean that some people would not benefit from it
    Storm Nordwind: Although I suspect he would argue coherently why PaB need not have such a role!
    Wol Euler nods
    Storm Nordwind looks around to see if Pema is forthcoming with an explanation
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders...
    Pila Mulligan: being confined within SL limits the options for teaching meditation -- I tried it a few times last year and it is fun but not sufficient
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I guess if any of new people are open to Pema to talk more, I'm sure he has lots to offer ^^
    Storm Nordwind: I fully agree Pila. Which end were you on?
    Pila Mulligan: :) teaching
    Storm Nordwind: What techniques were you attempting to teach?
    Pila Mulligan: I have had a daily practice of a silent Chinese mediation for 34 years -- from the Secret of the Golden Flower
    Storm Nordwind: Wow - I remember that from way back!
    Pila Mulligan: :) esoteric +
    Gaya Ethaniel listens... Secret of the Golden Flower...
    Pila Mulligan: but actually very simple and pragmatic after all the fluffery
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ 'fluffery'...
    Pila Mulligan: it has been called Zen with details Gaya
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Gaya Ethaniel: What kind of 'details'?
    Pila Mulligan: mostly how chi (breath energy) brings results to the practice
    Pila Mulligan: circulation of energy internally
    Pila Mulligan: very much akin to tai chi
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...

    And so we returned to the teaching I used to do. And I learnt something astonishing about a subject dear to my heart.

    Storm Nordwind: Now I managed to do that with rune-work
    Pila Mulligan: cool
    Storm Nordwind: Most of what we did was email correspondence
    Gaya Ethaniel frowns... runes and chi?
    Pila Mulligan: I sent Pema an email yesterday describing my thought that it can be done with just about anything
    Storm Nordwind: But we all got together in RL every few months
    Storm Nordwind: And I watched like a hawk at all their reports
    Storm Nordwind: Yes Gaya - rune and chi!
    Pila Mulligan: breathing is the essence -- think what your mind and body would be like without breathing?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... yes gotta breathe...
    Storm Nordwind: Or Ond as the old Norse would say!
    Pila Mulligan: Ond = breath energy?
    Storm Nordwind: Yes
    Storm Nordwind: haha Gaya!
    Pila Mulligan: it is ha in Hawaiian
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Pila Mulligan: prana in yoga, ki in Japan
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: gi in Korean
    Storm Nordwind: Many names in many ancient systems
    Pila Mulligan: alo = to face or share ha = breath energy -> aloha
    Gaya Ethaniel: You Hawaiian Pila?
    Pila Mulligan: no, haole :) (caucasian)
    Storm Nordwind goes wide-eyed about Pila's revelation
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Pila Mulligan: isn't that anoice one Storm
    Pila Mulligan: aloha, share breath
    Storm Nordwind: It's one of the best I've ever heard
    Storm Nordwind has found the title for his chat log!
    Pila Mulligan: now when the Hawaiains named caucasians haole, they were using ha and aole=no --- saying no breath :)
    Pila Mulligan: men wiht no breath :)
    Storm Nordwind: So true, so often - sadly
    Pila Mulligan: well, by comparison it i s easier to breath in the tropics
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wonder whether that is also why Maori people put their heads together when saying hi...
    Pila Mulligan: and to re-emphasize the earlier idea, anything that helps breathing is likely to have effects like meditation
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it is Gaya
    Storm Nordwind: Yes Pila
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah wow ok
    Pila Mulligan: they are bretahing nose ot nose
    Pila Mulligan: it is a common greeting in Polynesian
    Gaya Ethaniel: So it's Polynesian thing...
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Pila Mulligan: using the term loosely, for the whole Pacific

    And so we spiralled back to a retreat venue.

    Storm Nordwind: And that is one of my points of wariness about a mountain retreat, as some people may struggle with breathing at altitude at first
    Gaya Ethaniel nods...
    Pila Mulligan: quite true Storm
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Gaya Ethaniel: nods @ the term
    Pila Mulligan: asphyxiation is the abne of existence
    Gaya Ethaniel: How high would that be Storm?
    Pila Mulligan: bane*
    Storm Nordwind: 8,500 ft Gaya
    Pila Mulligan: quite high
    Gaya Ethaniel googles for converter... in metric
    Pila Mulligan: airplanes turn on oxygen before 10,000'
    Storm Nordwind: Just a touch above cabin pressure in an airline
    Storm Nordwind: They pressurize to 6000-8000ft
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's... high
    Storm Nordwind: Sorry Gaya!
    Gaya Ethaniel: np ^^
    Wol Euler: 2590 metres, gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty ^^
    Wol Euler: pretty high...
    Storm Nordwind: Fine if you have a week to acclimatise
    Storm Nordwind: But then it's time to go home!
    Pila Mulligan: come to Hawai`i for the retreat :)
    Storm Nordwind: I'd love to!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Think the highest mountain I climbed was about 1700m... but that was over 2 days...
    Gaya Ethaniel: 2600m that's be something ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hawaii for a PaB retreat ^^
    Pila Mulligan: I've hiked a lot at 9-10,000' on mountains here -- you have to pace yourself
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow...
    Storm Nordwind: You have to pace the mountain lions too! ;)
    Pila Mulligan: we only have geckos, fortunately
    Gaya Ethaniel: But hopefully I will be dropped off at a location for the PaB retreat rather than being asked to climb up to the cabins ^^
    Wol Euler thinks California sounds pretty good
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Storm Nordwind: As they do in Malaysia, geckos scampering up lavatory walls
    Gaya Ethaniel: Geckos are cute ^^
    Pila Mulligan: yes, they are
    Gaya Ethaniel: Had them all over when I was in Oz last

    Geckos are cure. But HOW cute? :)

    Storm Nordwind: Cuter than Moon, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ^^
    Wol Euler: wow.
    Storm Nordwind gasps
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry... ^^
    Storm Nordwind: He won't read this far!
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let's hope so
    Wol Euler: sorry moon!
    Storm Nordwind laughs
    Pila Mulligan: or maybe he will and then decide to find an SL gecko outfit
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Storm Nordwind cringes at the thought
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wherever it will be held, I will try to make the retreat if no other commitment...
    Storm Nordwind: May I be very rude and call it a day? I have to drive 2 hours to an empowerment in the early morning
    Wol Euler: yes of course!
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ yes time for bed here too
    Pila Mulligan: sure, not rude at all Storm -- have a nice evening
    Wol Euler: goodnight storm, sleep well and safe driving.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day/night all ^^
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you all
    Pila Mulligan: evening*
    Pila Mulligan: aloha
    Wol Euler: goodnight gaya, sleep well
    PaB Listener Master: Removing "Gaya Ethaniel" from list.
    Storm Nordwind: And if there is anything else to log, someone please send it to me
    Wol Euler: will do
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste

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