2008.12.20 07:00 - Compassion Is The Only Way Through

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    Pia Iger, the absent GOC, is grateful that Fael sent her the log.  Then she posted the log with her title and comments.

    This is a wonderful session. Read on!


    Begin with a little accident...

    Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..Hi, Fael, Adams.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nice dress, Fael..lovely tattoos.
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you,'
    Adams Rubble: Hello Corvi and Fael :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: A funny thing happened to me on the way to PaB.....
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Fael Illyar: yes?
    Adams Rubble: I crashed
    Fael Illyar: Ah, well, it happens :)
    Adams Rubble: like the aeroplane
    Adams Rubble: Hi Crusty :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Crusty :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, it was interesting exercise, figuring out how to push the airplane out :)
    Adams Rubble: Yes, Fael was magnificent
    Crusty Goldshark: hi guys
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Crusty.

    Adams gave more details of the funny accident, which is extraordinary even in SL.

    Adams Rubble: A plane crashed into my SL house this morning Crusty
    Crusty Goldshark: were you insured?
    Adams Rubble: It was stuck against a chair, the house and the Buddha stele
    Adams Rubble: The propeller was turning madly and the plane was sort of vibrating
    Adams Rubble: I tried everything I could
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I ended up putting a box under it, resizing it to be a platform and moved it up from under the plane
    Adams Rubble: could't drive it out, couldn't return it
    Crusty Goldshark: gosh
    Adams Rubble: yes Fael, wedged it out with the strength of 60 men :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Adams Rubble: don;t mes with Fael :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Crusty Goldshark: ok
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble: unfortunately the plane went somewhere else, we have no idea where
    Fael Illyar: yes, the moment it was no longer blocked by the house, it started moving along the coast
    Fael Illyar: will have to remember to include a cage in the thing that pushes things out like that next time.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: good idea, fael
    Adams Rubble: Just another day in second life
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: then you could sink it into the sea.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, grins.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Doug :)
    Crusty Goldshark: hi doug
    Fael Illyar: ah no, I was thinking more like chaining it in place and then contacting lindens about it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. I assumed that would be the next step.
    Adams Rubble: mayble holding it for ransom :)
    Crusty Goldshark: virtual piracy?
    Adams Rubble: make a little Christmas spending money
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Faenik loves wells!

    Doug came and set off another round of laughters with typos and puns.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Doug :)
    Adams Rubble: How are you Doug?
    doug Sosa: hi.
    doug Sosa: god
    Crusty Goldshark: well done
    doug Sosa: oops, good
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Crusty Goldshark: boo - better to be god
    doug Sosa: blushes
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    doug Sosa: god sees too far, treats humans and other criters like experiments, or wind up toys.
    Fael Illyar: you mean we aren't that?
    Crusty Goldshark: does she
    Crusty Goldshark: never seems to do anything except in peoples imagination . .
    doug Sosa: deep truth there.
    Crusty Goldshark: None the less I believe imagination can be a force for Cod or bad in the right plaice
    Crusty Goldshark: :) something fishy there . . .
    doug Sosa: yes. dreams, gods, loves and other projections.
    Adams Rubble: cod?
    Crusty Goldshark: Almighty Cod - the big fish
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: are those the only choices...smelly fish or bad?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ook
    Adams Rubble: :)

    Any other choices? Crusty gave us a nice example.

    Crusty Goldshark: I prefer to construct my gods . . .
    Crusty Goldshark: according to need and then become possessed by them . . .
    Fael Illyar: Heh, that sounds handy :)
    Adams Rubble: good strategy Crusty
    Faenik: indeed?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: wearing God lightly?
    Crusty Goldshark: Well it is the basis of Tantric Buddhism . . .
    Adams Rubble: is it?
    Crusty Goldshark: Isn't it?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't know that tradition.
    Crusty Goldshark: Well the basic meditations involve the visualization of a deity Bodhisattva - allowing him or her to enter and then dismissing them
    Adams Rubble: why dismiss?
    Crusty Goldshark: Well because they were never there in the first place . . .
    doug Sosa: anyone think of punning on "cod-piece"?
    doug Sosa: god of the low lands.
    Crusty Goldshark: but more seriously because some people may go over the top - you retain the blessing but dismiss the deity
    Fael Illyar: dismiss the idea of the deity but keep the rest.
    Crusty Goldshark: It is a bit like enjoying the sun in second life - it can have benefits even though it is a projection . . .
    doug Sosa: very good,
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I can enjoy the sun in SL but without believing it's a real sun :)
    Adams Rubble: timing is wonderful :)
    doug Sosa: wow.
    Adams Rubble: like the god appearing on cue :)
    Crusty Goldshark: that is the nature of Gods - they are there
    Crusty Goldshark: because we make it so

    Doug made a sharp point.

    doug Sosa: but we can't make just whatever, it has to fit somewhat.
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Crusty Goldshark: Well it is possible - in Chaos Magic there is a use of quite obscure forms as energy conduits but In Buddhist Tantra the deities represent Ideals -Mind states if you will
    doug Sosa: still projections?
    Faenik loves wells!
    doug Sosa: crusty looks up for the answer :)
    Crusty Goldshark: :) Projections are the whole of reality - we can in a sense interpret the presence of a deity or a reality when most of what is there is void
    doug Sosa: but what about the fact of fit? Good to imagine a chair is where it is, not three feet to the left.
    Crusty Goldshark: attuning to a projection gives us insight into ourselves and relationship to Ideals and complex abstractions - so for example Chenrezig represent 'Compassion'
    doug Sosa: chenrezig?
    Adams Rubble: Is that Avalokitisvara?
    Crusty Goldshark: The chair tends to be somewhere - it also tends or is interpreted as a chair - in fact it can be seen as a symbol or embodiment of compassion - allowing us support and the comfort and ease of sitting . . .

    Another tough question from Doug.

    doug Sosa: what about the economy?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's pure imagination.
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes Avol . . . etc - Chenrezig is the Tibetan manifestation
    doug Sosa: but can't be ignored.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: as 'the economy" it can.
    Crusty Goldshark: LOL - yes money is a God for some and an abstraction for others ;)
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: there are smaller things that can't be.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hunger.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: for instance.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or perhaps..crusty could.
    Crusty Goldshark: I could ignore hunger and have done - fasting etc- but it is really just a sensation
    doug Sosa: i always get nervous with "just".
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that kind of hunger is a sensation.
    Crusty Goldshark: why?
    doug Sosa: seems limiting. nothing is "just".
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but there are other ramifications of hunger.
    Crusty Goldshark: just juts
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that are harder to ignore?

    Adams  was still chasing the previous deity thread.

    Adams Rubble: Crusty, in the sense that the deity is "called up" in meditation, is that kind of meditation similar to the western concept of prayer?
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes Corvu I agree
    doug Sosa: yes, the pain of real people, to me thebeconomyb is very real, even if, like other things, woven through wit thoughts.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Doug.. "yes"
    doug Sosa: typing falling apart. sorry.
    Crusty Goldshark: No - in prayer you are praying to a deity that is real in Buddhism you are praying to a deity that is not real
    Crusty Goldshark: In other words you are aware of the benefits of the delusion but not deluded
    Fael Illyar: obviously, those two uses of real are different
    Adams Rubble: I wonder if all in the western tradition are so deluded
    Adams Rubble: all are so deluded

    And the thread of hunger and economy was not given up, either.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and I didn't mean to imply that you didn't get the differences in hunger, Crusty..just that I realized I meant two separate things when I said it.
    doug Sosa: my edge is to realize that the economy is as real as.. these cushions.. the chair I am sitting on..
    Fael Illyar: In practical use, the word economy seems to refer to whether it's easy to find people to buy your stuff or not.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or easy to find the stuff to buy.
    Crusty Goldshark: Can you sell hunger?
    doug Sosa: not only. it also is being surrounded by others who do that. From the poor house to the white house.
    Crusty Goldshark: Can you trade goodwill?
    Fael Illyar: I guess you can't buy economy either :)
    doug Sosa: crusty you are sharp. thanks.
    Crusty Goldshark: Is compassion a transferable commodity?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: i'm more concerned about whether one can buy food.
    doug Sosa: all of you (sharp)
    Fael Illyar: food and place to live. That's all you _really_ need. Although, I'd very much prefer to keep Internet connection and a computer too :P
    Corvuscorva Nightfire pokes Fael..I'm into clothes as well.
    doug Sosa: yes, but how to have those things?

    Crusty somehow chained two seperate topics of economy and deity together with compassion.

    Crusty Goldshark: Yes access to basics is something we should not be economical with but generous and that is not something that comes from focus on economy but focus on compassion . . . but . .
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    doug Sosa: yes, but we are not there yet.
    Crusty Goldshark: what does compassion look like? We give it a form and that form may be a Tantric deity . . .
    doug Sosa: this is a very good conversation. but i must leave.
    Crusty Goldshark: - not focus on economy that should be :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Doug
    Crusty Goldshark: bye Doug
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I would agree with you, Crusty...compassion is the only way through...and I'm much more aware of that as people I love are having a hard time, vs people I don't know.
    Adams Rubble: If I pray to God and he comes and rocks me gently, how is that different from a tantric Buddhist calling on Chenzreig and deriving compassion?
    Adams Rubble: yes Corvi
    Fael Illyar: perhaps compassion is that when you're having hard time, you accept yourself instead of kicking yourself on the bottom for allowing it to happen.
    Crusty Goldshark: Well we need to know more people as friends and this is the role of SL and the net - I want access to people who are starving - I want them as friends so I can be concerned - I am selfish - I don't want my friends to starve
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: though people usually give up their internet before they do food.
    Crusty Goldshark: We take the net and food for granted
    Fael Illyar: Corvi, only if they have choice, only if
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Crusty Goldshark: most have no such benefits
    Crusty Goldshark: Anyways I have a database to build - live long and prosper
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: have fun, Crusty.
    Crusty Goldshark: bye guys eat well - not lots just well - delight in the choice
    Crusty Goldshark: CU
    Adams Rubble: bye Crusty

    Ah, thanks, Pia says!

    Adams Rubble: Did Pia ask one of us to post the log?
    Adams Rubble: Would you like me to do it?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thank you, Adams.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, Pia asked me for the log
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Adams Rubble: thanks, Fael
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yay!
    Faenik: ah :)
    PaB Listener Master: Recording has stopped, the session is ended.
    Fael Illyar's PaB Listener: No longer recording. Have a nice day. :)

    Though the machine said the session is ended, the talk was still going on. And the rest part is too good  to not post here. Don't miss Fael's mirror metaphor!

    Corvuscorva Nightfire reads Adam's blog.
    Adams Rubble: Nothing there yet this morning
    Fael Illyar: that reminds me, I'm a few days behind again :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: are you, Fael?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you have a blog, too?
    Fael Illyar: with Adams's log.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
    Adams Rubble: I am in a time of transition :)
    Adams Rubble: started to say evolving but that is a loaded word
    Fael Illyar: any transition for humans is way too fast to call evolving :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like the idea of transition..it makes me think of swirling water.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: evolving seems like moving from a to b to z
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: directional.
    Adams Rubble: We sort of get an understanding of something before we have words to describe it
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nos.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, very much so :)
    Faenik: could be
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: metaphors are useful for those things.
    Fael Illyar: which is exactly why requiring to be able to put reasons to words before using them tends to not be so good idea
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: as long as we remember they are metaphors.
    Adams Rubble: I am having some insight about myself along the lines of yin yang
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to FAel.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I saw that..what did it mean?
    Adams Rubble: that maybe what I am seeing as selves is something else
    Adams Rubble: It is not a developed thought yet Corvi
    Adams Rubble: I have been shying away from both extremes
    Adams Rubble: maybe they have to balance
    Fael Illyar: I've never been able to put to words what a "self" is
    Fael Illyar: but I liked the way of describing things that normally we're like numerous fragments of mirrors.
    Fael Illyar: reaction depending on which mirror you hit.
    Fael Illyar: and that enlightenment is forming a solid mirror from the fragments
    Fael Illyar: we tend to concentrate on singular things so much.
    Fael Illyar: that our world seems to end when just one thing goes against our expectations.
    Adams Rubble: It is hard to see the whole picture
    Fael Illyar: It's so easy to forget one single thing isn't everything
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ohhhh
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh put this in the log, too!
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Fael Illyar: the classic forest for the trees argument :)
    Adams Rubble: We spend a good long time trying to understand all the things that make us up
    Fael Illyar: we have this tendency of seeing one bad thing and then using that as basis for believing everything is bad.
    Adams Rubble: ...and how those things relate to the world around us...to Being
    Adams Rubble: Relating that to enlightenment is an interesting point
    Fael Illyar: how would you do that+
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Adams Rubble: I was referring to your mirror fragment theory Fael
    Fael Illyar: ah, yes :)
    Fael Illyar: the mirror fragment thing is practically the same thing I said afterwards
    Fael Illyar: of concentrating on just single thing
    Fael Illyar: each of the mirror fragments reflects just one single thing.
    Adams Rubble: yes and it relates to my seeing two extremes which may need to be in balance
    Fael Illyar: a whole mirror would reflect things in much more balanced way
    Adams Rubble: maybe they are two of my mirror fragments in your definition
    Fael Illyar: perhaps... might even be two of the bigger ones
    Adams Rubble: yes they are big fragments. hehe
    Fael Illyar: but the key to joining them might be to use some smaller fragments to join them together
    Adams Rubble: interesting use of the metaphor. yes, maybe
    Adams Rubble: But I have been inclined not to accept the two extremes

    How others can help us? Adams and Corvi gave us such concrete examples.

    Adams Rubble: Other people in PaB have urged me to embrace them
    Faenik: indeed?
    Adams Rubble: I am begining to change my view of them
    Fael Illyar: perhaps what they mean with embracing is not quite what you understood it to be?
    Adams Rubble: Yesterday morning's session was a step in that direction
    Adams Rubble: Corvi asking me "who" is talking about former self
    Adams Rubble: and Steve reminding me that what is past is past
    Adams Rubble: maybe Fael
    Adams Rubble: ...and from yesterday's session, maybe they have their uses
    Fael Illyar: but that's the key here. It's never certain you understand what someone else says.
    Adams Rubble: In fact I know they do now
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Adams Rubble: No Fael. But we can derive pointers from others :)
    Adams Rubble: and I do from all of you
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sometimes it's our interpretation of the words that's important..not what is said.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, that we can do. But it's important to realize that there pointers are from ourselves.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or intended.
    Fael Illyar: our interpretation
    Adams Rubble: yes, of course
    Adams Rubble: But what others can do is see one as a whole, possibly more clearly than we do ourselves
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or at least see bits we don't see.
    Adams Rubble: yes Corvi, that too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: like that little spot on our back between our shoulder blades..*laughs*
    Adams Rubble: Maybe others are more accepting of what we see are flaws in ourselves
    Adams Rubble: hehe Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Adam's last..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm sure that's true, Adams.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: When I confess what I see are hug flaws...and others still care about and love me...it helps me to see myself more clearly.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: huge*
    Fael Illyar: more clearly is not possible but ...
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Adams Rubble: yes Corvi :)
    Adams Rubble likes the typo hug flaws
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It helps me to focus, then...on the things that i want to avoid in my mind (to Fael)...and hahaha, me, too (to Adams)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's almost as though I have turned that bit of mirror backwards to avoid looking at it...and have to get a friend to turn it forward.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: to say..this is a good bit of mirror, too. So that I can see it as a good bit of mirror, necessary to joining the whole.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, we have this habit of turning the mirrors so we don't see them
    Fael Illyar: or more like putting other mirrors in front
    Faenik: could be

    Adams crashed and came back for the end.

    Fael Illyar: wb Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: I may not have enough prims to hold me down :)
    Adams Rubble: keep crashing
    Fael Illyar: crashing or losing connection?
    Adams Rubble: The last thing I experienced was me commenting on the hug flaws
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: i'll send you a notecard.
    Adams Rubble: maybe connection lost. we had an ice storm and things may be fragile out there
    Fael Illyar: Yes, that could do that
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Adams Rubble: This was a good session this morning
    Fael Illyar: Yes, very good one :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have some shopping to do..I might need some suggestions, Fael
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: as to where to find an outfit to go with that tattoo.
    Adams Rubble: thanks Corvi
    Fael Illyar: I'm rather popular at the moment ...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..welcome.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: lots of talents
    Fael Illyar: But, I'm kind of running short on where to get things to wear with the tattoo
    Adams Rubble: I hope you both have a good day
    Fael Illyar: I might need hep on that myself too
    Fael Illyar: Sure, have a nice day Adams :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: are you leaving, Adams?
    Adams Rubble: Thanks for the help this morning :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: very welcome.
    Adams Rubble: Yes, it's been a long session :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. that's true..enjoy your day.
    Adams Rubble: bue for now :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: baibai.
    Fael Illyar: See you two later :)
    Adams Rubble: bye :)

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