2009.01.03 07:00 - SL is One Gigantic Work of Art

I, Pema, was the guardian that morning. When I arrived, I found Claire standing near the fountain. Soon afterward, Delani would arrive, with a guest of hers, Jeni.

Pema Pera: Hi Claire, Happy New Year!
Pema Pera: please come sit near the water
Pema Pera: Good morning Delani!
Delani Gabardini: morning
Delani Gabardini: claire - pema
Claire Beltran: Hi...
Claire Beltran: Er...
Claire Beltran: I'm meeting Adelene today... and I'm scared.
Pema Pera: in RL or SL?
Delani Gabardini: i am interrupting
Pema Pera: No, Delani, this is a regular Play as Being meting
Delani Gabardini: ok
Pema Pera: Are you bringing a friend, Delani?
Delani Gabardini: jeni should be here
Delani Gabardini: yes
Delani Gabardini: here she is
Pema Pera: I am looking forward to meeting here
Delani Gabardini: hi jeni
Pema Pera: Hi Jeni!
Pema Pera: Welcome to our group!
Delani Gabardini: flying
Claire Beltran: ^-^/
Delani Gabardini: jeni u can come down - LOL
Claire Beltran: To answer your question, Pema, IRL.
Pema Pera: a lofty entry!
Pema Pera: Ah, please say hello to her from me, Claire!
Delani Gabardini: jeni meet pema and claire
Pema Pera: Jeni, is this your first visit here?
Jeni Luik: yes
Jeni Luik: sorry

Probably because of the tp location that Delani her had sent, Jeni came flying in from on high, and kept flying around a bit before settling down :)

Pema Pera: Delani probably already told you, but just to be complete:
Pema Pera: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
Jeni Luik: i was in im
Pema Pera: oh, np!
Delani Gabardini: pema i have given very little background
Delani Gabardini: we just talked about this this morning
Jeni Luik: pls include me
Pema Pera: thanks, Jeni!
Delani Gabardini: as jeni is intersted in sl studies also
Jeni Luik: sorry
Pema Pera: You are very welcome to join us here, Jeni, any time
Jeni Luik: I was eating a delicious chocolate cookie my niece baked
Pema Pera: we're a very informal bunch
Claire Beltran: Pema... I'm very frightened.
Jeni Luik: one handed typing is hard :)
Pema Pera: that sounds nice, Jeni
Pema Pera: Yes, Claire?
Pema Pera: Why?
Delani Gabardini: claire dont let fear overcome u
Claire Beltran: Because... I don't know what to think. I waited for ofer an hour in the park yesterday and I felt miserable and cold and exposed. The world feels like a very unfriendly place for me now.
Claire Beltran: I felt so miserable that I could do *nothing*, not even cry.
Pema Pera: I'm sure Adelene will understand, Claire
Pema Pera: the two of you have had lots of contact already, after all
Pema Pera: Adelene has gone through a lot herself, she told me
Pema Pera: Jeni, what are your main interests in SL?
Jeni Luik: I have been in SL for about 2 years now. Originally I came in for teaching purposes
Jeni Luik: Via the International Institute for Educational TEchnology
Jeni Luik: But I quickly learned that SL was too much fun to spend my time on that!
Pema Pera: :-)
Jeni Luik: Not mention the mess there would be if I introduced undergraduates to SL
Pema Pera: mess?
Jeni Luik: too much temptation for the young and inexperienced
Jeni Luik: makes it hard to have a working class

I smiled at the double meaning of that expression (^_^).

Pema Pera: well, I don't think American kids are that inexperienced . . . .
Pema Pera: but I see your point :)
Jeni Luik: (these were grad students)
Jeni Luik: They complained that it took too long to learn how to make an avitar and get around SL
Delani Gabardini: haha
Delani Gabardini: no patience
Pema Pera: well, many adults complain about that too!
Delani Gabardini: missing the fun
Jeni Luik: right!
Delani Gabardini: the creative aspect
Pema Pera: most of my astronomy colleagues, from age 20 to 80
Jeni Luik: so mostly I spend my time terraforming and building
Pema Pera: sounds like fun!
Delani Gabardini: jeni and i have a buddhist connection
Jeni Luik: I like it
Delani Gabardini: she is very good also
Pema Pera: What we are doing here is a kind of micro-meditation
Jeni Luik: Now I want to learn more about Buddhism
Delani Gabardini: can u explain the process somewhat
Pema Pera: every fifteen minutes we pause what we are doing for 9 seconds
Pema Pera: in RL that is
Pema Pera: a kind of "time tax"
Pema Pera: there are 900 seconds in a quarter of an hour
Delani Gabardini: i think we missed the 15 min mark
Pema Pera: and 1% of that time we offer, so to speak
Pema Pera: to smell the roses, off the beaten path
Pema Pera: everybody does that in his or her own way
Pema Pera: and here in SL we compare notes with what we find
Pema Pera: does that make some sense?
Pema Pera: I can say more, but may be more fun if you ask questions
Jeni Luik: this is in between meditation or between discussion?
Pema Pera: it is many things
Pema Pera: the practice in RL, the stopping every 15 minutes can be seen as a kind of meditation
Pema Pera: or simply an exploration of self and world and everything, reality
Pema Pera: here in SL we discuss about what we find
Pema Pera: and what we can do with it
Delani Gabardini: or perhaps do nothing with it
Delani Gabardini: just do it
Jeni Luik: what I meant is, are the breaks taken when you group is in discussion
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: yes to Delani, I meant
Jeni Luik: so it is a moment of personal reflection
Pema Pera: ah, you can if you like, in SL too
Pema Pera: we have a bell that rings here every 15 minutes
Pema Pera: but the main emphasis is on RL practice

Delani referred to her own practice with the 9-sec. exploration, and then Claire left.

Delani Gabardini: it was an interesting process to do in lectures
Delani Gabardini: student reaction was interesting
Delani Gabardini: claire dont leave pls
Delani Gabardini: ah
Delani Gabardini: she left
Delani Gabardini: i hope she did not feel ignored
Jeni Luik: what do you discuss?
Pema Pera: We responded to everything she said, Delani
Delani Gabardini: she seemed to calm down
Delani Gabardini: i hope
Delani Gabardini: i have too many emotional attachments
Jeni Luik: Do you discuss Husserl here?
Pema Pera: not specifically
Pema Pera: but anything is game, Jeni
Pema Pera: We do have a Phenomenology workshop in the Kira Cafe -- are you refering to that?
Delani Gabardini: i almost made it yesterday, Pema
Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=93&Itemid=123
Jeni Luik: if it is, then may I ask why you think Phenomenology is a philosophical model of simulated worlds?
Pema Pera: I am almost happy to hear that, Delani (^_^)
Delani Gabardini: will try harder
Pema Pera: model of simulated worlds? in what way?
Jeni Luik: it is in your profile
Delani Gabardini: haha
Pema Pera pondering deeply about his profile, and the connections made from there . . . .
Pema Pera reading his own profile:
Pema Pera: I'm exploring Husserl's phenomenology as the first really experimental approach in Western philosophy.
Jeni Luik: I was at one time a PhD student studying phenomenology
Delani Gabardini: ah
Pema Pera: great!
Pema Pera: what aspect?
Jeni Luik: experiment/model
Jeni Luik: whatever

What a nice surprise!

Delani Gabardini: jeni u must attend then
Delani Gabardini: can contribute
Jeni Luik: Maybe
Jeni Luik: It has been a long time since I worked in that area
Delani Gabardini: i have had a very narrow focus in sl
Pema Pera: just to clarify: I don't think Phenomenology is a philosophical model of simulated worlds?
Delani Gabardini: i need to expand a little
Delani Gabardini: sorry pema
Pema Pera: you are both more than welcome to attend the phenomenology workshops!
Pema Pera: I would be delighted to see you there
Delani Gabardini: i am interested to see what u r doing
Pema Pera: There are many interpretations of phenomenology
Jeni Luik: true enough
Pema Pera: I'm trying to let the group explore for themselves, in the spirit of Husserl
Pema Pera: but not reading Husserl or his commentators
Pema Pera: that would distract too much from the key points
Pema Pera: physicists don't read Newton -- they do research following in Newton's footsteps
Jeni Luik: I know you could mean a hundred different things by that
Pema Pera: I try to do the same thing in Husserl's footsteps
Jeni Luik: by that
Jeni Luik: but let me say
Delani Gabardini: i apologize but i must leave
Delani Gabardini: bye jen
Delani Gabardini: bye pema
Pema Pera: bye Delani, thanks for stopping by?
Delani Gabardini: will be more often Pema
Pema Pera: looking forward to seeing you again, Delani!

Delani left, and Jeni and I continued our conversation about phenomenology, a topic with many aspects.

Jeni Luik: that I very Phenomenology as the study of emergent social constructs/organization
Jeni Luik: or self-organizing properties
Jeni Luik: SL to me, is one gigantic work of art
Pema Pera: yes, that's an interesting application
Jeni Luik: emergent
Jeni Luik: so tell me how you are using it
Pema Pera: ah, okay, now I understand your question/remark!
Pema Pera: For me, phenomenology is an interesting approach for life, RL and SL, not specifically for SL, but also including SL for sure
Pema Pera: Husserl's approach is to drop both believing and disbelieving, and just looking at the phenomena in what he called the "epoche", a form of suspension of judgment
Pema Pera: I find that kind of experimental approach, unlike most philosophers who speculate, very interesting
Pema Pera: and I'm trying to convey how to do that, in the workshop that I started two weeks ago
Jeni Luik: yes
Pema Pera: we meet once a week, and it has been fun
Pema Pera: there are two dozen participants, and half of them send reports to the group of detailed experiments they have done, studying the nature of the subject-object interaction
Pema Pera: I find it fascinating, both the explorations and the group's process
Pema Pera: everything is online: you can read it at your leisure
Jeni Luik: cool
Pema Pera: http://groups.google.com/group/kira-...ology-workshop
Jeni Luik: I will look over the site
Pema Pera: and feel free to IM me or send email (piet@ias.edu) if you have suggestions, questions, whatever
Pema Pera: May I ask what kind of Buddhism you are interested in?
Jeni Luik: How does this relate to astrophysics?
Pema Pera: not directly, other than both being aspects of investigating reality :-)
Jeni Luik: (buddhism later)
Jeni Luik: ah
Jeni Luik: ways of knowing
Jeni Luik: it so happens that my research has used a lot of verbal reports, which are in response to a set of experimental conditions I maneuver
Pema Pera: ah, interesting!

Jeni gave a little vignet of her work.

Jeni Luik: I am an environmental economicst, mainly studying how to value nature's services
Jeni Luik: no markets there, for the most part
Pema Pera: that could have very significant impact . . .
Jeni Luik: so we try to simulate them
Pema Pera: just to make people think, and realize and see clearly
Jeni Luik: I could go on and on and on
Pema Pera: :)
Jeni Luik: but will spare you
Jeni Luik: :)
Pema Pera: do you have a web site?
Jeni Luik: loads of them
Jeni Luik: let me figure out whcih to send you to
Jeni Luik: there are examples of some of the work
Pema Pera: sure, take your time
Jeni Luik: but most is in the journals, so not on line
Jeni Luik: I'll get back to you later on that
Pema Pera: fine, thanks!
Jeni Luik: a study of whether and how consumers would value an ecolabeling program for apples
Pema Pera: in SL?
Jeni Luik: n
Jeni Luik: I have no conducted surveys in SL

Crusty joined us.

Pema Pera: Hi Crusty!
Pema Pera: meet Jeni
Jeni Luik: the studies are random national samples of households
Jeni Luik: Nice to meet you Crusty
Crusty Goldshark: Hi Jeni, Hi Pema :)
Jeni Luik: brb
Crusty Goldshark: was it something I said?
Pema Pera: I doubt it, Crusty, you'd have to try harder :)
Crusty Goldshark: LOL - will do my worst :)
Pema Pera: o-oh
Jeni Luik: back
Jeni Luik: Not you Crusty!
Jeni Luik: I have a nasty cold
Jeni Luik: and I need to lay down
Pema Pera: so your cold and Crusty can compete then!

This in connection with Crusty announcing that he would do his worst :>).

Crusty Goldshark: What about drugs or garlic?
Jeni Luik: lol
Pema Pera: we can talk later, if you like, Jeni
Jeni Luik: hopefully, I will be more fully conscious then
Pema Pera: sure, take your time!
Jeni Luik: Namaste
Pema Pera: see you soon!
Crusty Goldshark: bye
Pema Pera: I'll also have to leave soonish
Crusty Goldshark: Bye
Pema Pera: it's almost 1 am here in Kyoto . . . .
Pema Pera: good seeing you, even though briefly, and thanks for the smiles the other day (^_^)
Crusty Goldshark: welcome - what happened - I have pre-senile demetia - seem only to live in the present - might be catching . .
Pema Pera: oh, you were sharing smiles with Tarmel and me a few days ago
Pema Pera: when she was remembering a moment of grace
Pema Pera: and smiled at the memory
Crusty Goldshark: Oh good _ I hope we had fun :)
Crusty Goldshark: bye for now
Pema Pera: it seemed like you did :)
Pema Pera: ciao