2009.01.19 01:00 - Ready to love… perhaps before an asteroid hits Earth

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    Gaya was the guardian on call for this session and comments are hers. Today’s discussion was particularly interesting to her as all participants are of Christian background to various degrees.

    Gaya was joined by Adams shortly after the hourly bell.

    Adams Dubrovna: Good morning Gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?
    Adams Dubrovna: Untimely awake
    Adams Dubrovna: How are you?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. I can see that… Well thank you :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Last night was a wash on SL
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I heard... [I couldn't log in again after dinner either]
    Adams Dubrovna: I was just fixing some things that got messed up
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah no... at the hall?
    Adams Dubrovna: No notecards
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Adams Dubrovna: I was working on three at once and they got saved or not saved in various stages
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I don't work within SL... for notecards
    Adams Dubrovna: I like to write the travel guides on site
    Gaya Ethaniel: I normally run Word at the same time or Notepad...
    Adams Dubrovna: Ah, I would crash :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... even with those programmes?
    Adams Dubrovna: not enough power :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry to hear it...

    Adams and I discuss one of his recent blog entries on which we both made a few comments. One of my sisters, Antonia joins us.

    Adams Dubrovna: We found out we missed an opportunity the other morning
    Adams Dubrovna: We had an interesting thread in the comments on my blog
    Gaya Ethaniel: About selves?
    Gaya Ethaniel: And love?
    Adams Dubrovna: and sin
    Adams Dubrovna: and love :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: I'm not sure I'm up to it this morning
    Gaya Ethaniel: You seem to have similar understanding as mine on that :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Antonia-chan :)
    Adams Dubrovna: I do wonder if I am trying too hard
    Gaya Ethaniel listens
    Antonia Braveheart: oh, I thought I had to wear my outfit :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: What are you 'trying'?
    Antonia Braveheart: hello everyone
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's PG here and you can wear whatever you'd like :)  As long as PG
    Antonia Braveheart nods
    Adams Dubrovna: I should say maybe I am looking too hard
    Gaya Ethaniel: Adams is talking about a blog entry he made and I commented on Antonia. On love, selves, sin - http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/self-full-and-redemption-217/
    Adams Dubrovna: But it greatly interested me that you were seeing this in a similar way
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Same here
    Antonia Braveheart smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Before I used to wonder what 'sin' and 'original sin' meant in the Bible
    Antonia Braveheart listens carefully
    Adams Dubrovna: The Garden of Eden story is suggestive of selves
    Adams Dubrovna: The "self" comes between humans and God
    Gaya Ethaniel: Adam and Eve became aware of themselves being naked after eating the fruit
    Adams Dubrovna: but the Garden of Eden story is rather unforgiving on that score
    Adams Dubrovna: Whereas we can still drop "self" and find God (in Christian terms)

    Hana joins us :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Hana-chan :)
    Hana Hendrassen: Hello
    Antonia Braveheart: Hello Hana-chan ^^
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Hana :)
    Hana Hendrassen: Hello ^_^
    Hana Hendrassen: wow I actually know everyone this time
    Adams Dubrovna: Well in Christian terms it is still possible
    Hana Hendrassen giggles
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Antonia Braveheart smiles @ Hana
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let me make a notecard of what we just discussed Hana
    Hana Hendrassen: ookinii
    Hana Hendrassen: (sorry I'm late...)
    Gaya Ethaniel: No problem :)
    Adams Dubrovna: There is no late in PaB :)
    Hana Hendrassen smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: Unless one waits until the session is over
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Hana Hendrassen: that's true
    Adams Dubrovna: Of course there is always another one
    Hana Hendrassen: yes, so then you could be early
    Gaya Ethaniel: Every 6 hours :)
    Hana Hendrassen: very very very early
    Hana Hendrassen laughs
    Antonia Braveheart: I’d like to learn more ( I've just woken so, I feel a bit bewhizzled :P)
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs!
    Adams Dubrovna feeling very early
    Hana Hendrassen: oh me too
    Hana Hendrassen giggles
    Antonia Braveheart: lolz
    Gaya Ethaniel: What's the time there now Adams? mm... 4:30 am ish
    Hana Hendrassen: it's 5 for you now Adams?
    Adams Dubrovna: yup
    Hana Hendrassen: wow
    Antonia Braveheart: here its 10,30 am in Italy
    Adams Dubrovna: 4:23
    Gaya Ethaniel: 9:30 in UK
    Hana Hendrassen: have you woken up or are you still up?
    Adams Dubrovna: I woke up about 3
    Hana Hendrassen: yikes
    Antonia Braveheart: hey, maybe my friend wants to come
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure :)
    Antonia Braveheart: can I tp him in that case?
    Adams Dubrovna: Not my usual habit
    Gaya Ethaniel: You got into 'regular' sleep pattern again recently. What woke you up?
    Antonia Braveheart: (I might get changed in the meantime :P)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Well I had a period of awaking in the middle of the night in October and November
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I remember
    Hana Hendrassen: me... I just stay up insanely late
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel looks up Adams' blog and notices an entry for today already
    Hana Hendrassen: wow
    Adams Dubrovna would rather not go into that now
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure
    Hana Hendrassen smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Probably you'd need time to let it sink in and untangle etc
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Where was I...?
    Antonia Braveheart: you have a blog?
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, it is mostly to keep a record of my experiences when I do the 9-second stops
    Adams Dubrovna: Inadvertently it became public :)
    Antonia Braveheart: this is great
    Hana Hendrassen smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: Somedays I get rather freeform about the stops
    Adams Dubrovna: usually on weekends
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: That link I pasted above is Adams' blog Antonia :)
    Adams Dubrovna: or weekdays :)
    Antonia Braveheart nods
    Antonia Braveheart: ok, I’ll have a look ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: Depending on the perspective I guess Adams :P

    I finally remembered where we left off re: Adams’ blog. We discuss one of our favourite topics at PaB, love. Antonia tells us about ‘Italian love’ :) Even as I edit this log the day after, I’m still pondering on things some of us said here…

    Gaya Ethaniel: Think there are other times when one can experience 'God' but in love, it's natural and somewhat 'easy' in my opinion
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, that is a very good way of putting it Gaya
    Adams Dubrovna: and many would substitute the word Being for God in that sentence
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds trivial but I was glad we have similar understanding about 'God' and 'Love'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes likely
    Adams Dubrovna: It always is good when we can share similar experiences
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Antonia Braveheart smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: My understanding on Love being neutral has been helped a lot by understanding Buddhist term compassion in a way
    Gaya Ethaniel: Some would use those two terms equally in that sense perhaps
    Adams Dubrovna: I don't think love itself is neutral
    Adams Dubrovna: At least not in English
    Hana Hendrassen: neutral in what way..?
    Adams Dubrovna: The love of God/Being may be neutral
    Hana Hendrassen: between?
    Adams Dubrovna: Well, when we love someone
    Adams Dubrovna: there is the wonderful feeling that is all positive
    Adams Dubrovna: and there is negative feeling too
    Adams Dubrovna: jealousy
    Adams Dubrovna: possessiveness
    Adams Dubrovna: then in that love there is a neutral level
    Gaya Ethaniel: No I am not talking about romantic love...
    Adams Dubrovna: 'and that is the level that is permanent
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, Gaya I was trying to answer Hana
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Adams love has various qualities/levels
    Hana Hendrassen: even without romantic love there's jealousy I would think
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: [I know I was answering Hana too]
    Hana Hendrassen: so do you then mean that the love of God/Being is selfless?
    Adams Dubrovna: In English we have only one word for all the kinds of love
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: yes hana
    Hana Hendrassen: oki
    Hana Hendrassen: the concept of... agape I suppose
    Gaya Ethaniel: Love of God/Being as well... and I have such love within myself also, not necessarily directed at Being
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Hana
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Antonia Braveheart: in Italian, we have different kinds of love :P
    Hana Hendrassen: oh?
    Antonia Braveheart: different*
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh?
    Antonia Braveheart: it depends on who's addressed
    Antonia Braveheart: to
    Gaya Ethaniel listens with curiosity
    Antonia Braveheart: for example, the kind of love for friends
    Antonia Braveheart: it's " bene"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good?
    Antonia Braveheart: yes
    Hana Hendrassen nods...
    Antonia Braveheart: when you say "ti voglio bene" it kinda means "I love you" but it is addressed to a friend
    Antonia Braveheart: when we address to someone who love, or God as well....it is proper love..."amore"
    Antonia Braveheart: "ti amo" means properly "I love you"
    Hana Hendrassen: ah ^_^
    Antonia Braveheart: ^_^
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... :)
    Hana Hendrassen: like the song
    Hana Hendrassen giggles
    Adams Dubrovna: ty Antonia
    Gaya Ethaniel: No wonder I've never seen 'ti voligio bene' in arias
    Antonia Braveheart: yw ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: :P
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Hana Hendrassen: I think I have
    Hana Hendrassen: somewhere
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh?
    Antonia Braveheart: it is more common to say " ti voglio bene" than " ti amo"
    Hana Hendrassen: or maybe just parts of that
    Hana Hendrassen: what does "voglio" mean?
    Antonia Braveheart: it means literally
    Antonia Braveheart: want
    Hana Hendrassen: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: Think I've got too many tragic cruel love songs in Italian
    Hana Hendrassen: like "I wish you well"
    Antonia Braveheart: kind of
    Hana Hendrassen: very cool
    Antonia Braveheart: in philosophy many philosophers call the love for God "supreme love"
    Adams Dubrovna: Buddhism seems to combine loves into compassion
    Hana Hendrassen nods
    Adams Dubrovna: extend agape into philos
    Antonia Braveheart: :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not all definitions of love as we are familiar perhaps?
    Antonia Braveheart: what is agape?
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Gaya. from different roots
    Hana Hendrassen: agape is unconditional love
    Adams Dubrovna: agape is love of God
    Adams Dubrovna: and God's love too I think
    Hana Hendrassen: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: Like love of mother to her child too selfless
    Hana Hendrassen: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape
    Hana Hendrassen: and philos is friendly love?
    Adams Dubrovna: brotherly (sisterloy) love
    Hana Hendrassen: ah
    Hana Hendrassen: then eros... well... most people know what that one is *giggles*
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Antonia Braveheart nods
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: we spend much of our thinking on that
    Hana Hendrassen: true
    Gaya Ethaniel: May I quote a verse from Dhammapada on love?
    Hana Hendrassen: because it's the most accessible kind of love maybe?
    Antonia Braveheart: sure Gaya-chan
    Adams Dubrovna: yes please Gaya
    Hana Hendrassen: yes please
    Antonia Braveheart: I’d like to hear it
    Gaya Ethaniel: And 'natural' too in a way because we are programmed to reproduce?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Never by hatred is hatred conquered,
    but by readiness to love alone.
    This is eternal law.
    Antonia Braveheart looks at Gaya and listens carefully
    Gaya Ethaniel: Love in that verse sounds similar to love as we would understand easily
    Hana Hendrassen nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not taking sides perhaps is important in that
    Antonia Braveheart: it's lovely
    Hana Hendrassen: it rings similar to "Love thy neighbor as thyself"
    Adams Dubrovna takes note of the 'readiness'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Please say more Hana?
    Hana Hendrassen: hmm...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Readiness... awareness helps in that perhaps
    Hana Hendrassen: hard to put into words
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Hana...in the same vein
    Adams Dubrovna: love as a key
    Gaya Ethaniel: Love your neighbour as yourself also points to 'selflessness' I think
    Hana Hendrassen: a key to living in harmony with your neighbor yes
    Adams Dubrovna: Gaya, I was noting that it in the quote it is not the love itself but the willingness to love in the face of hatred
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah yes that too :) That is not easy to do

    SL is playing up again… Adams leaves to get some rest for the day.

    Antonia Braveheart: ops Hana crashed...
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Antonia Braveheart sighs
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or crashed into her bed :)
    Hana Hendrassen is Online
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or not. wb Hana :)
    Antonia Braveheart: here she is :)
    Adams Dubrovna: wb Hana
    Antonia Braveheart: wb sister ^^
    Hana Hendrassen: thank you
    Adams Dubrovna: Our SL lives are very fragile
    Hana Hendrassen grumbles some unladylike things about SL
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Antonia Braveheart laughs softly
    Adams Dubrovna: but we can resurrect in SL and have many more
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Hana Hendrassen: true
    Antonia Braveheart: and fly, for example
    Hana Hendrassen: when it's not being absolutely intolerable
    Adams Dubrovna: like last night
    Hana Hendrassen: like all day today
    Adams Dubrovna: Oh
    Adams Dubrovna braces for long day
    Hana Hendrassen: the grid status report page was updating every half hour
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm...
    Antonia Braveheart: true
    Antonia Braveheart: I had trouble as well to log in several times
    Adams Dubrovna rubs his eyes and yawns
    Antonia Braveheart drinks coffee to wake up
    Gaya Ethaniel: Coffee sounds good. I will go make some after :)
    Hana Hendrassen: I just need to sleep
    Antonia Braveheart: I made some espresso
    Hana Hendrassen: but I'm still not tired
    Adams Dubrovna: I think it is time for me to go back to sleep. It was very nice chatting with you all
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good rest Adams :)
    Hana Hendrassen: ok, nice to see you Adams :)
    Antonia Braveheart: same here Adams
    Hana Hendrassen: first time here actually
    Hana Hendrassen giggles
    Adams Dubrovna: Brightened up an otherwise dull, dark morning
    Antonia Braveheart: nice to see you Adams
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. Thanks all for coming
    Adams Dubrovna: bye :)
    Hana Hendrassen: sleep well
    Antonia Braveheart: night night ^^

    This probably is the first session that went over an hour at Monday 1 am. Hana talks about her experiences at PaB.

    Antonia Braveheart: it is lovely this thing
    Gaya Ethaniel: You think? I'm glad
    Hana Hendrassen nods
    Hana Hendrassen: I haven't been in so long
    Antonia Braveheart: it's like I’d like to have my "academia"
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's not like this all the time Antonia :P
    Antonia Braveheart: because, I want to open it here on SL some day
    Gaya Ethaniel: We can go a bit... silly
    Antonia Braveheart: of course ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: I know Hana I do miss seeing you here
    Gaya Ethaniel: Open what Antonia?
    Hana Hendrassen: I just get so lost in discussions most of the time
    Antonia Braveheart: uhm
    Antonia Braveheart: I’d like to build my "academia"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Same here Hana I just stick around :)
    Hana Hendrassen: academy...?
    Antonia Braveheart: inspired on Plato's academia
    Gaya Ethaniel: Some makes sense some don't
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... :)
    Antonia Braveheart: where there are not lessons, but dialogues
    Hana Hendrassen: yeah so far a very small percentage have made sense to me
    Hana Hendrassen: ah like a forum
    Antonia Braveheart: kind of
    Gaya Ethaniel: We have dialogues too at PaB sometimes then an open discussion afterwards
    Antonia Braveheart: but it's similar to this
    Antonia Braveheart: it's amazing
    Antonia Braveheart: I love that
    Gaya Ethaniel: On voluntary basis though... no one says you do this or that... but Pema is in a way leading us
    Antonia Braveheart: Pema?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Gives us directions but all of us make suggestions etc
    Hana Hendrassen: pretty much hehe
    Hana Hendrassen: he's the founder right?
    Gaya Ethaniel: mmhmm he started this, yes
    Hana Hendrassen: nice guy
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Hana Hendrassen: but I don't get most of what he says
    Antonia Braveheart: it's good...among all the cr*p on SL
    Hana Hendrassen laughs
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Antonia Braveheart: it's good to have those things
    Hana Hendrassen: I consider myself savvy on a lot of things but PaB continually stumps me
    Gaya Ethaniel: I feel often lost here too
    Antonia Braveheart: I still feel a bit disoriented
    Hana Hendrassen smiles
    Antonia Braveheart: but I think it needs time
    Hana Hendrassen: yes, probably
    Gaya Ethaniel: Very often :) That's why I was so glad to see Adams had similar insight as me. It's not frequent I find such an occasion
    Antonia Braveheart: sometimes you feel like a stupid because you feel lost
    Hana Hendrassen: yes, exactly
    Gaya Ethaniel: Gradually I became ok with not knowing, still at times a bit disorientating as you say though
    Hana Hendrassen: I am not very good at thinking in abstract terms
    Antonia Braveheart: it takes time
    Hana Hendrassen: and that's what PaB is all about it seems
    Gaya Ethaniel: We do try to discuss personal experiences which are not abstract
    Hana Hendrassen nods...
    Gaya Ethaniel: But 'spiritual' experiences are difficult to put into words at any rate
    Hana Hendrassen nods
    Antonia Braveheart: I recommend you to read a bit about ancient Greek philosophers , Hana...they deal a lot with abstract
    Hana Hendrassen nods

    Hana triggers another bout of giggling fit for me. And more giggles to come among various philosophers and scientists.

    Hana Hendrassen: wow I'm nodding a lot
    Hana Hendrassen giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Antonia Braveheart: I love Plato's "Symposium"
    Gaya Ethaniel: That reminds me... I need to read something for Wednesday
    Antonia Braveheart: it's about love, mainly
    Hana Hendrassen: I have read a little on Aristotle
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is it?
    Antonia Braveheart: yes
    Antonia Braveheart: you could find it on wiki as well
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... would you care to share?
    Hana Hendrassen: but I'm more into the scientific side of philosophy... the logic side
    Antonia Braveheart: sure
    Gaya Ethaniel: But that's rather abstract too no Hana?
    Hana Hendrassen: not to me
    Hana Hendrassen: logic seems very patterned
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... interesting :)
    Hana Hendrassen: it's a failproof system basically
    Hana Hendrassen: or at least as far as we understand it
    Hana Hendrassen: though by definition there are things which defy logic...
    Hana Hendrassen: such as the concept of a God
    Gaya Ethaniel: I always want to dismantle the logics when I was learning them at school
    Hana Hendrassen giggles
    Antonia Braveheart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symposium_(Plato)
    Hana Hendrassen: like which?
    Gaya Ethaniel: You know things like if A is this and B is that bla bla
    Hana Hendrassen: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: I always went like... how do you know if A is this
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Antonia Braveheart: do you know Galileo Galilei
    Hana Hendrassen: well, you make the assumption
    Hana Hendrassen: oh yes
    Hana Hendrassen: great scientist
    Antonia Braveheart: he was a philosopher as well
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes and he didn't draw the map of the moon first
    Antonia Braveheart: he was trying to combine...science..and religion
    Gaya Ethaniel: Didn't go down well did it? :P
    Hana Hendrassen laughs "And he ended up insulting the Pope"
    Antonia Braveheart: give a logic explanation of the existence of God
    Antonia Braveheart: no it didnt *GIGGLES* :)
    Hana Hendrassen: people blame the church for his downfall but really it was kind of his bad XD
    Antonia Braveheart: hahaah
    Gaya Ethaniel: He attempted something that couldn't be achieved perhaps, explain God by logic
    Hana Hendrassen: well he just insulted the Pope
    Hana Hendrassen: to his face
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not a good omen that
    Hana Hendrassen: until then the Pope had supported him and given him exception in the church
    Antonia Braveheart: but it was interesting the way he did it
    Hana Hendrassen: oh?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yeah never bite the hand that feeds right
    Hana Hendrassen: right, right
    Gaya Ethaniel listens to Antonia
    Antonia Braveheart laughs
    Antonia Braveheart: sorry
    Gaya Ethaniel: Why? np Antonia, laugh away as much as you want :)
    Antonia Braveheart: anyway, it was a good attempt
    Hana Hendrassen giggles

    Both Hana and Antonia continue to share their views on God. SL continues to cause havoc for Hana…

    Antonia Braveheart: the one by Emmanuel Kant
    Hana Hendrassen: ah...
    Hana Hendrassen: another name I recognize
    Antonia Braveheart: yeh
    Antonia Braveheart: reading his three books is so hard
    Gaya Ethaniel: I haven't read Kant no
    Antonia Braveheart: in few words he says that God is something that goes beyond reason
    Antonia Braveheart: this is why it's hard to explain his existence
    Hana Hendrassen nods "I'd agree with him"
    Hana Hendrassen: I think it is impossible to prove there is a God
    Hana Hendrassen: it goes upon faith
    Antonia Braveheart nods
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Hana Hendrassen: me, personally, I do believe there is one because of my personal experience... but that is not something I can share with anyone
    Antonia Braveheart: ....
    Antonia Braveheart: sometimes I don’t know if I want to believe
    Hana Hendrassen: whoa
    Hana Hendrassen: what happened
    Gaya Ethaniel: Because...? Hana
    Antonia Braveheart: nothing
    Hana Hendrassen: did the graphics not just mess up...?
    Antonia Braveheart: I simply am not sure
    Hana Hendrassen: I see all black
    Hana Hendrassen: and sky
    Hana Hendrassen: o_O
    Antonia Braveheart: oh
    Antonia Braveheart: :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh it's ok on my screen
    Hana Hendrassen: weird weird weird
    Antonia Braveheart: HA HA HA HA HA
    Hana Hendrassen: oh well since I haven't really crashed yet
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Hana Hendrassen: continue ^_^
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's been really painful... SL
    Antonia Braveheart: it is
    Hana Hendrassen: Gaya, I can't share my experience with anyone simply because it's mine
    Hana Hendrassen: no one can take my word unconditionally
    Hana Hendrassen: even my senses might be fooling me
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I understand... that's why most of time I'm reluctant to talk about it... whenever I do, no one seems to understand anyway
    Hana Hendrassen: but I choose to believe that what I have experienced is true
    Antonia Braveheart: I feel like sometimes there is no God, just because...
    Hana Hendrassen: because...?
    Gaya Ethaniel: But as with Adams, some do understand some of my experiences perhaps not when I shared them months ago
    Antonia Braveheart: ...think about the wars in Gaza
    Hana Hendrassen: ah
    Antonia Braveheart: ...or the hunger in Africa
    Hana Hendrassen: you know... I think bad things happen for a reason
    Hana Hendrassen: and good things happen for a reason
    Antonia Braveheart: ...me too
    Hana Hendrassen: it's not fair to expect all good
    Hana Hendrassen: because then we would take it for granted
    Antonia Braveheart: true
    Hana Hendrassen: we would not know evil
    Hana Hendrassen: so we would not know good
    Antonia Braveheart: you mean...it's a way to achieve our aims
    Antonia Braveheart: like
    Hana Hendrassen: I mean it's a way to understand that good IS good... and not just something that happens
    Antonia Braveheart: we have obstacles that determine our way of being?
    Antonia Braveheart: that will lead us to the good or to the evil
    Hana Hendrassen: sort of
    Hana Hendrassen: it's that if good things happen to us
    Antonia Braveheart: ....
    Hana Hendrassen: we know it's good
    Antonia Braveheart ponders
    Hana Hendrassen: because we've seen bad things happen and we know they're bad
    Hana Hendrassen: if there was no bad
    Antonia Braveheart: ....yes
    Hana Hendrassen: how would we know it was good?
    Antonia Braveheart: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Antonia Braveheart: but still...sometimes I don’t believe
    Antonia Braveheart: maybe because it's something I’ve never seen
    Hana Hendrassen: that can make it challenging
    Antonia Braveheart: I don’t know
    Hana Hendrassen: it's your choice
    Antonia Braveheart nods
    Hana Hendrassen: no one's forcing you to believe there's a God
    Hana Hendrassen: if they are... there's something wrong with them
    Gaya Ethaniel: And one doesn't have to 'believe' anything right
    Antonia Braveheart: I define myself in a spiritual journey constantly
    Hana Hendrassen: well one has to believe something
    Hana Hendrassen: otherwise one is useless
    Gaya Ethaniel: What I mean is it's a personal choice
    Hana Hendrassen: yes
    Antonia Braveheart: yes
    Antonia Braveheart: but I can’t choice now
    Hana Hendrassen: well... you choose to keep looking
    Hana Hendrassen: that's a choice
    Antonia Braveheart: because I’m still in my journey
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Antonia Braveheart: true
    Hana Hendrassen: the people I don't respect are the ones who just don't care
    Antonia Braveheart: this is stupid and shallow
    Hana Hendrassen nods
    Antonia Braveheart: I mean not caring
    Gaya Ethaniel: Must be reasons for that I think
    Gaya Ethaniel: I wouldn't know why though... I feel sad when I see that
    Antonia Braveheart: me too
    Hana Hendrassen: I think they just want to avoid thought and go on with their "here and now"
    Antonia Braveheart: because I don’t like to take everything for granted
    Antonia Braveheart: I like to discover, ask myself....share my thought with others
    Antonia Braveheart: learn more
    Antonia Braveheart: those are passive people
    Antonia Braveheart: to me
    Hana Hendrassen: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: I focus a lot of 'here and now' though... Try not to waste the present
    Hana Hendrassen: yes but you care about here and now
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes
    Antonia Braveheart: me too
    Hana Hendrassen: and you care about past and future
    Gaya Ethaniel: mmhmm
    Antonia Braveheart: but this doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have aims in my life
    Hana Hendrassen: no
    Antonia Braveheart: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods in agreement

    Gosh… when was ‘Dead Poets Society’ made again?! We talk about Pema heheheh

    Antonia Braveheart: "carpe diem, qquam minimum credula postero"...it's in my profile
    Hana Hendrassen tries to see if she can remember that without cheating...
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Antonia Braveheart: it means in few words "seize the day , for we don’t know what tomorrow will be"
    Gaya Ethaniel: I only know carpe diem from a film I watched... years ago 'Dead Poet's Society' highly recommended
    Antonia Braveheart: hahah
    Antonia Braveheart: I studied ancient Greek philosophers and Latin literatures
    Antonia Braveheart: this is why i know
    Hana Hendrassen: I took Latin for two years
    Antonia Braveheart: otherwise I wouldn’t dare :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... you'd love Gilles' philosophy discussions starting this week
    Hana Hendrassen: so I should know XD
    Antonia Braveheart: really?
    Antonia Braveheart: oh can’t wait
    Gaya Ethaniel: Let me look up...
    Antonia Braveheart: i love philosophy
    Antonia Braveheart: its ages i dont study it
    Antonia Braveheart: when i started studying it at school
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wednesdays: Philosophical Seminar w/Gilles Kuhn
    "As the name indicates we will study the philosophical problematic. All domain and problems of philosophy can be studied however the first general theme will be on the good old "mind/body problem" call too "the hard problem". The themes we will study will depend on the evolution of our work session and debate: generally subjects of interest will arise spontaneously. First seminars: The two first seminars will focuses on the article Turning 'The Hard Problem' Upside Down & Sideways by Piet Hut and Roger Shepard, 1996, J. of Consc. Stud. 3, 313-329; reprinted in Explaining Consciousness , ed. J. Shear (Cambridge, MA: MIT Press), pp. 305-322. It is available in his draft version online at http://www.ids.ias.edu/~piet/publ/turning/tuc2.html. For uniformity we will use this draft version. I will invite the participant to read the paper beforehand. And one of the authors known by his avatar name Pema Pera (Piet Hut) has kindly accepted as our first guest star speake
    Gaya Ethaniel's PaB Listener: Oh no! Gaya%20Ethaniel's last sentence was too long, 6 letters were lost.
    Antonia Braveheart: I thought it was boring
    Hana Hendrassen: ACK CHATSPAM
    Gaya Ethaniel: sorry... :)
    Hana Hendrassen: lol
    Antonia Braveheart: lolz
    Gaya Ethaniel: If you join 'Kira Cafe' you'd get notices Antonia
    Antonia Braveheart: cook
    Antonia Braveheart: cool
    Antonia Braveheart: *GIGGLES* :)
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Antonia Braveheart: I like those things :)
    Hana Hendrassen smiles
    Antonia Braveheart: is Pema a real philosopher?
    Gaya Ethaniel: He's an astronomer
    Antonia Braveheart: wow
    Antonia Braveheart: imma join the cafè
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or what is he again Hana?
    Hana Hendrassen: eh?
    Gaya Ethaniel: A 'mad' scientist [orange hair]
    Hana Hendrassen: oh Pema
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Hana Hendrassen: I think you told me he's an astronomer
    Hana Hendrassen: lol I think I have a book I need to recommend him
    Hana Hendrassen: that "death from the skies" one
    Antonia Braveheart: ....
    Hana Hendrassen giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: He is :) An unusual one I think http://www.ids.ias.edu/~piet/ [here you see him without his orange hair]
    Hana Hendrassen: it's about all the various cosmic ways the world could end
    Antonia Braveheart: hahaha
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Hana Hendrassen: I thought he was Indian...?
    Antonia Braveheart: :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: He could probably come up with solutions for some
    Hana Hendrassen: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel: Dutchman
    Hana Hendrassen: for the asteroids, maybe
    Hana Hendrassen: but the rest are pretty futile
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok :)

    Hana gives us a few examples of how Earth could be destroyed. Antonia seems to be in a hurry to set up her Academia now.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Such as?
    Hana Hendrassen: such as the death of a star from trillions of miles off that bathes the earth in gamma radiation
    Antonia Braveheart: oh
    Gaya Ethaniel: Nice...
    Hana Hendrassen: or a black hole sweeping through the galaxy
    Hana Hendrassen: or a supernova
    Gaya Ethaniel: Lovely... :)
    Antonia Braveheart will be right back.
    Hana Hendrassen: ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: sure
    Hana Hendrassen: or a collision with Andromeda
    Gaya Ethaniel: How many disaster scenarios in that book?
    Hana Hendrassen: or the red giant-ing of the sun (which is apparently actually survivable if we can change our orbit)
    Hana Hendrassen: plenty... haven't read them all yet
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Hana Hendrassen: but the most likely one is the asteroid
    Hana Hendrassen: guess what the chances are?
    Hana Hendrassen: in percent
    Gaya Ethaniel: Strange... I know a few people who delight in such a book, a coincidence? :P
    Antonia Braveheart: back
    Gaya Ethaniel shakes her head no
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
    Antonia Braveheart: thanks
    Hana Hendrassen: just guess ^_^
    Hana Hendrassen: wb Antonia-chan
    Antonia Braveheart: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm...
    Gaya Ethaniel: 5?
    Hana Hendrassen: 100
    Gaya Ethaniel laughs!
    Hana Hendrassen: at some point we will be hit
    Antonia Braveheart: I feel more motivated to open my "Academia" now btw
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yeah before an asteroid hits us
    Antonia Braveheart: :)
    Hana Hendrassen: lol
    Antonia Braveheart: *GIGGLES* :)
    Hana Hendrassen: the most we can do is try and derail them over and over
    Hana Hendrassen: there are even some in our orbit
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes many working on how
    Hana Hendrassen nods
    Antonia Braveheart: hahha
    Antonia Braveheart: girls, I think I have to go now
    Hana Hendrassen: man these graphics are odd o_O
    Hana Hendrassen: ah ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok I'm getting hungry too
    Antonia Braveheart: remind me something...
    Hana Hendrassen: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds like SL will kick you out soon Hana
    Antonia Braveheart: *GIGGLES* :)
    Hana Hendrassen: maybe :(
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day Antonia :)
    Hana Hendrassen: hai, hona sainara!
    Antonia Braveheart: you too girls...see you later at the geisha school

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