2009.01.19 13:00 - Quieting the Mind's Spacial Borders.

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    Solobill was Gaurdian on Call for this session.  Corvi posted it and suggested the title. (Note: Actually this was Stim's session, though I provided the image below - Solo)).


    Solobill Laville: Rajah!!!!

    Solobill Laville: I have not seen you in far too long... :)

    Solobill Laville: Hi, Stim :)

    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach, Rajah, Solo

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi everyone:)

    Solobill Laville: Heya, Scath :)

    Stim Morane: Hi Fefonz

    Fefonz Quan: Hi Stim, Scathach,Solo :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz

    Rajah Yalin: hi Stim, Solo, Scat and Fefonz :)

    Solobill Laville: Hi Fefonz :)

    Fefonz Quan: Hi Raj

    Solobill Laville: It is good to see you again, Rajah!

    Rajah Yalin: thanks :)

    Rajah Yalin: and you too!

    Solobill Laville: :)

    Rajah Yalin: good to see you all

    Fefonz Quan: Hey Tarmel

    Stim Morane: Hi Tarmel

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hey Tarmel:)

    Solobill Laville: Hi, Tarmel :)

    Tarmel Udimo: hey there everyone

    Tarmel Udimo: stim I'm sorry i have to miss your thursday sessions

    Rajah Yalin: hi Tarmel

    Tarmel Udimo: hi rajah

    Stim Morane: Well, it's just a short chat.

    Solobill Laville: Is there a plan to post them?

    Tarmel Udimo: will the log be posted?

    Solobill Laville winks at Tarmel

    Stim Morane: there won't be a log, since what I and Pema say will be voice-chat

    Solobill Laville: ah...

    Tarmel Udimo: hey solo can't see you

    Fefonz Quan: time for a voice-record feature in SL

    Tarmel Udimo: I mean the thursday lecture

    Solobill Laville nods

    Tarmel Udimo: and scath is a ball of white light

    Scathach Rhiadra: :) I wish I was

    Fefonz Quan: you just see reality as it is Tar :)

    Stim Morane: it seems like voice-recording would be nice, and indeed I use such a feature in other virtual worlds teaching I do. But then you end up with a very large number of sound files.

    Tarmel Udimo: oh if only fefonz

    Tarmel Udimo: true about the sound files being bigger than text

    Fefonz Quan: would've thought someone would build an application to translate voice to text

    Solobill Laville: (dragon software...but not so good)

    Stim Morane: Yes, they're bigger, and there's also no way to peruse them quickly. The voice-to-text capability would be great, but we're still pretty far from having that.

    Solobill Laville: Can I ask a question - practically speaking?

    Stim Morane: ?

    Solobill Laville: I've been reading a little bit about some modern research

    Solobill Laville: into brain patterns during meditative states

    Solobill Laville: and one study showed two things that occured

    Solobill Laville: in both tibetan monks and franciscan nuns

    Solobill Laville: 1) the verbal portion of the brain quieted

    Solobill Laville: and 2) the part of the brain that identifies

    Solobill Laville: "spacial" borders quieted

    Solobill Laville: (I don't know the names of these areas...)

    Solobill Laville: Is the 2nd finding consitient with any specific practices?

    Wol Euler: hello everyone

    Stim Morane: Well, what "practice" were they doing in the study

    Tarmel Udimo: waves at wol

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol:)

    Stim Morane: Hi Wol

    Fefonz Quan: Hey Wol :)

    Solobill Laville: gads - good question, I assume dzogchen...and...?

    Wol Euler: hello fefonz, scath, rajah, solo, tarmel, stim

    Rajah Yalin: hi wol :)

    Solobill Laville: Heya, Wol :)

    Stim Morane: I think there are very few people in the western world, or anywhere for that matter, who really practice Dzogchen in the strict sense.

    Fefonz Quan: well, i can tell that even in my humble experience of meditation, weird effects of the visual definition did occur sometimes

    Tarmel Udimo: (still don't know why i can't see solo)

    Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)

    Stim Morane: Hi Adams

    Scathach Rhiadra: hello Adams

    Solobill Laville: Hi Adams :)

    Fefonz Quan: Hey Adams, great hair :)

    Solobill Laville: (I'll reframe my question...)

    Rajah Yalin: hey Adams

    Wol Euler: hello adams! nice dress :)

    Solobill Laville: I practice shikan taza; i am accustomed to the idea and practice of letting go of thoughts...

    Solobill Laville: However, I don't actively try to expand things spatially...either during meditation or PaB...

    Fefonz Quan: perhaps it happens spontaneously, withtout attending, just watching without trying to do anything?

    Solobill Laville: you mean the spacial "dropping" / "expansion"?

    Fefonz Quan: yep

    Solobill Laville: That is like the floor dropping under your feet...

    Solobill Laville: Maybe there is a gentler entry?

    Tarmel Udimo: hi adam

    Fefonz Quan: well, i can only tell of my experience, nothing more

    Solobill Laville: Please share your experience

    Fefonz Quan: and it wasn't so bad,

    Tarmel Udimo: well it makes sense that the spatial areas of the brain would be affected

    Tarmel Udimo: this is kind of being 'proved' in our pheon explorations no?

    Fefonz Quan: mostly when i stare at monotonic-cheotic surfaces (grass, carpets, etc

    Fefonz Quan: they tend sometime to "loose" their definition, their regular appearance

    Solobill Laville: Is this a visual effect?

    Fefonz Quan: and some "waviness",

    Fefonz Quan: yes, sure tarmel

    Fefonz Quan: flawingness starts to appear, a little like when you look at 3-D images

    Fefonz Quan: that look like a random clatter of dots, til something happens and they start to "get out of the paper"

    Wol Euler will be quite fascinated to read the beginning of this discussion.

    Fefonz Quan: like the brain is fighting desparately to define pattern from chaos

    Wol Euler: ty solo :)

    Solobill Laville: ok, thanks, Fefonz

    Solobill Laville: I think I am talking about it from a mind-body experiential perspective, no brain though

    Wol Euler: Threedee would be the one to ask about the physcial-brain aspect

    Fefonz Quan: i'm not sure what that means...

    Fefonz Quan: (for Solo)

    Solobill Laville is choosing words carefully

    Tarmel Udimo: i'm not an expert but it if our ability to 'see' and experience space is what keeps us 'seperate' then when we meditate this drops away as we merge

    Solobill Laville: It is the dropping of separateness

    Tarmel Udimo: i think so which may be ralted to spactila awareness

    Tarmel Udimo: *related

    Fefonz Quan: well, i think you go one step farther, Solo

    Solobill Laville: Yes, I think dropping is the right verb Tarmel

    Fefonz Quan: there is some visual effect - which is strange, but the conclusion of separation need mental definition

    Fefonz Quan: whereus while it happens - it's just a visual effect, no more

    Solobill Laville gave you New Note.

    Tarmel Udimo: do you mean in meditation?

    Fefonz Quan: yes, but does it matter?

    Fefonz Quan: any moment can be "meditation", can't it?

    Solobill Laville: Yes, I especially like sipping coffee looking out the window :)

    Tarmel Udimo: yes being aware and the various levels of awareness is what we all strive for :-)

    Fefonz Quan: Well, Tea for me, but yes :)

    Wol Euler: coffeeandwindow meditation

    Fefonz Quan: meteatation here

    Solobill Laville: (got that one from Roshi Wol)

    Wol Euler: :)

    Rajah Yalin: mmm tea

    Wol Euler: tea, good idea (slips quietly away...)

    Rajah Yalin 10 cups of tea a day keeps the doctor away.

    Tarmel Udimo: I'm reading Pierre Teilhard de Chardins' letters to two friends at the moment

    Solobill Laville: not familiar with that, Tarmel, do tell

    Fefonz Quan: i would have like to hear from some of the more experienced people here if those effects are familiar, since i don't really understand them

    Wol Euler: hello blank, you are very blank indeed today.

    Wol Euler: welcome to second life, born today.

    Rajah Yalin: ghostly looking

    Tarmel Udimo: looking for link to make it easier

    Fefonz Quan: they say there is a black hole in the center of each galaxy...

    Fefonz Quan: hope not in blank ones :)

    Tarmel Udimo: ierre Teilhard de Chardin (IPA: pjɛʀ tejaʀ də ʃaʀdɛ̃]; 1 May 1881, Orcines, France – 10 April 1955, New York City) was a French philosopher and Jesuit priest who trained as a paleontologist and geologist

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Blank Galaxy: lol

    Wol Euler: Blank, I'll give you an introduction to the group in IM so that we don't disturb the group

    Tarmel Udimo: he was trying to reconcile faith and scientific thought

    Solobill Laville: brb

    Tarmel Udimo: here's a link: http://www.gaiamind.com/Teilhard.html

    Solobill Laville: back

    Fefonz Quan: wb

    Tarmel Udimo: hi

    Solobill Laville: That is an endeavor that will likely go on for quite some time (faith and science) :)

    Fefonz Quan: well seems he was a little ahead of time, quote: "The Age of Nations is past. "

    Tarmel Udimo: yes very and he felt that he could reconcile these two things within himself even though he was being orded from rome to abandon his quest

    Tarmel Udimo: he felt it was only by staying within the church and fighting and opening up this newly emerging life force as he saw it

    Tarmel Udimo: rather than leaving and enjoying the success he was having outside the church with his writings where he was seen as a man for th future

    Tarmel Udimo: this i found curious

    Tarmel Udimo: didn't mean to put a halt to the proceedings :-)

    Solobill Laville: hehe, just listening :)

    Tarmel Udimo: (still can't see you solo)

    Solobill Laville: (in a ghostly voice) "I am a figment of your imagination..."

    Tarmel Udimo: must be some advanced method of text projection ;-)

    Tarmel Udimo: coming down from the heavens

    Solobill Laville: :)

    Wol Euler: hallelujah!

    Fefonz Quan: we--see--ti--too---tarmel

    Wol Euler rolls on the floor and begins spe aki ngi nto ngu es.

    Solobill Laville: lol

    Tarmel Udimo: reconnected with the homeland eh wol?

    Tarmel Udimo: :-)

    Solobill Laville: a bit north of the homeland, perhaps...

    Wol Euler little heart beats a bit faster at the thought of 11 am tomorrow, and I'm not even American

    Tarmel Udimo: yes me tooooooooooooooooo

    Tarmel Udimo: heart of the world beating faster in timid hope

    Wol Euler: and relief

    Tarmel Udimo: yes

    Tarmel Udimo: I'll be awake all night to catch it ;-)

    Wol Euler: I'll be surreptitiously watcing on the net at work.

    Tarmel Udimo: hi samuel

    Wol Euler: hello samuel, nice to see you again

    Samuel Okelly: hello every1 :)

    Fefonz Quan: hello samuel

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Samuel

    Solobill Laville: Hey, Sam

    Samuel Okelly: apologies for my very late arrival :(

    Stim Morane: Hi Samuel

    Adams Rubble: A Bush at home is worth two in the White House

    Wol Euler: hehehehe

    Adams Rubble: Hello Samuel

    Samuel Okelly: hello adams

    Samuel Okelly: is it lag or are things very slow here this evening?

    Fefonz Quan: Talking about french people, meditation adn the brain, i've been on a lecture by Matthieu Ricard, the monk from "teh monk and the philosopher"

    Tarmel Udimo: yes?

    Wol Euler: ah yes

    Fefonz Quan: and he described a reaserch he participated in about the effect of meditation on the brain

    Fefonz Quan: and he showed results comparing brain states of monk vs. ordinary people

    Fefonz Quan: and in them it showed that the monks states where considerably more balanced and "happY'

    Fefonz Quan: accrording to some parameters of teh frontal brain lobes

    Adams Rubble: I must go. bye everyone :)

    Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.

    Solobill Laville: bye adams

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams

    Samuel Okelly: tc ada

    Tarmel Udimo: bye adams

    Samuel Okelly: fef, do you know what his humantitarian work was precisely?

    Stim Morane: bye adams

    Fefonz Quan: and what was even more impressive to me, was that even scomparing people that didn't do meditation at all, to a group that

    Fefonz Quan: did meditation for 10 weeks, the differences could be shown

    Fefonz Quan: Sam, are you talking about funds he raises for schools in nepal and tibet?

    Fefonz Quan: well, we just skipped nirvana

    Fefonz Quan couldn't help it :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Wol Euler: next stop mara

    Samuel Okelly: i understanbd thats what he received his order of merit for in france

    Solobill Laville: ah, didn't know that, that is impressive

    Solobill Laville: I've seen him on TED and youtube, very interesting guy indeed

    Tarmel Udimo: like TED TV just discovered it a few months ago

    Samuel Okelly: personally i think it is refreshing to see someone who hasarticulated bith the spiritual AND the biological with equal vigour

    Fefonz Quan: yes, tarmel, i did too

    Samuel Okelly: sadly i feel it is becoming all too common for people to be forced in to one of two camps but never both :(

    Solobill Laville: Yes, Sam, true

    Samuel Okelly: personally i am strong advocate of reasoned belief (be that scientific OR spiritual)

    Solobill Laville: ah...the proof is in the pudding? :)

    Solobill Laville: Or, no...

    Samuel Okelly: "the proof" is in "the reason", it is in "the why" :)

    Tarmel Udimo: we were talking about Teilhard de Charlin earlier : ] Tarmel Udimo: here's a link: http://www.gaiamind.com/Teilhard.html

    Tarmel Udimo: similar struggles

    Solobill Laville: But, at least at this point, therein lies in the ultimate diff btw faith and science

    Adelene Dawner is Online

    Solobill Laville: If you have faith in just the "why" it seems to be easily lost, imho

    Solobill Laville shrugs and smiles

    Samuel Okelly: in what way is "reason" qualitiatively different for science and religion?

    Solobill Laville: Perhaps it's not

    Fefonz Quan: in some sense, science doesn't ask "why"

    Samuel Okelly: in searching for "truth" science ask "How" andd it is religion that asks "why"

    Fefonz Quan: it asks "how", meaning how can something be modeled or expplained

    Solobill Laville: In a faith perspective, "why" isn't generally approached empirically

    Samuel Okelly: i agree

    Samuel Okelly: but is empirical knowledge all that informs the human condition?

    Solobill Laville: ah!

    Adelene Dawner is Offline

    Solobill Laville: 99% of our daily life would no

    Solobill Laville: *say

    Fefonz Quan: maybe not, Samuel, but science also doesn't cover all of the human condition

    Samuel Okelly: again i agree and i would posit that after honest introspection, each of us would concede to feeling a sense of there being "something else"

    Samuel Okelly: of course i do not "know" this

    Wol Euler nods

    Tarmel Udimo: well this is the big question and why we're all sitting here in hope of discovery

    Solobill Laville: "Empiricism of one"

    Tarmel Udimo: :-)

    Tarmel Udimo: and realising that ultimately it will always be subjective and personal

    Tarmel Udimo: and unique to each of us

    Solobill Laville: yes, that's the of one part

    Fefonz Quan: well, we also have the sense of "i am unique" (or is it just me :),

    Samuel Okelly: :)

    Fefonz Quan: (tarmel stole my eords)

    Solobill Laville: wb Blank

    Fefonz Quan: it doesn't say it's true

    Tarmel Udimo: sorry off chatting

    Solobill Laville: by definition, can a galaxy be blank?

    Fefonz Quan: as empty as any other thing

    Solobill Laville: Isn't that a bit like wordless paragraph

    Wol Euler: one whose black whole swallows all the light its stars generate, might be.

    Solobill Laville: ah...

    Wol Euler: trying to un-blank Blank.

    Fefonz Quan: tadam

    Blank Galaxy: hello

    Fefonz Quan: hello Blank

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello:)

    Wol Euler: hello not-so-Blank :)

    Solobill Laville: OK all, good seeing you! I am off!

    Solobill Laville: Hello, blank

    Tarmel Udimo: hi blank

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Solo:)

    Fefonz Quan: Bye Solo,

    Stim Morane: Yes, I must go too. Thanks, everyone!

    Wol Euler: bye solo, take care

    Tarmel Udimo: bye solo

    Solobill Laville: bye!

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim

    Samuel Okelly: tc every1 :)

    Tarmel Udimo: bye

    Fefonz Quan: bye Sam Stim

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Samuel

    Solobill Laville: hmmm... can't teleport...

    Solobill Laville: oh, well, up, up and away!!!

    Wol Euler: ha, the SL demons are back.

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Fefonz Quan: locked here forever Solo....

    Samuel Okelly: rl phone....cheerio for now


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