2009.02.15 19:00 - Envy, Jealousy and Rein-CAR-nation

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga . The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    When I arrived, Adams Rubble joined me along with Susi Alcott and Magdalena Colclough 

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Adams
    Adams Rubble: Hi Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: getting feedback about your exhibition?
    Adams Rubble: I am not sure how long I'll last :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: ok
    Adams Rubble: Oh yes, it has been gratifying. None as detailed as yours :)
    Adams Rubble: Hi Susi :)
    Adams Rubble: Yours was very helpful
    Susi Alcott: hi Adams
    Susi Alcott: hi steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was being technically critical with an eye toward improvement
    Adams Rubble: Yes, and it was much appreciated :)
    Adams Rubble: If you got back, you will see we took it seriously
    stevenaia Michinaga: quite an undertaking and incredibly educational, SL aside
    Adams Rubble: The women's gallery issue was one of the more interesting
    Adams Rubble: and not yet resolved
    Adams Rubble: It sure would be nice to go see the original and look for whatever evidence is there :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Pila :)
    Susi Alcott: hi Pila
    Pila Mulligan: greetings
    stevenaia Michinaga: I've done a presentation of synagogue architectural history a couple of time
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pila
    Adams Rubble gets very interested
    Adams Rubble: You must tell me more, if not now, soon :)
    Pila Mulligan: now would be fun :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: back when "slides" were popular, I asked the Jewish Museum for slides they laughed and asked me for my presentation as they had none
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble knows the visual resources person there
    stevenaia Michinaga: mainly scans from books
    Adams Rubble: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: this was more then 15 yrs. ago, but history doesn't change that quick :)
    Adams Rubble: no
    Adams Rubble: How did we do?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Maggie :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: good
    Magdalena Colclough: Hi all :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Maggie
    Adams Rubble breathes a sigh of relief
    Adams Rubble: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Maggie
    Susi Alcott: hi Magdalena
    Magdalena Colclough: hi Susi :)
    Magdalena Colclough: Just Maggie, please
    Susi Alcott: _/1\_

    A very quick appearance and disappearance by one named "Variable"

    Variable XXXX: Trust noone.
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, a ghost of a past meeting
    Adams Rubble: Pila took the words out of my mouth, er keyboard
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Magdalena Colclough: so what's on everyone's mind tonight? (or whatever time of day it is for you)
    Pila Mulligan: 5:15 p.m. :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: 10:15
    Pila Mulligan: guilt :)
    Magdalena Colclough: why guilt, Pila?
    stevenaia Michinaga: mason finish, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: I just finished a bowl of sliced bananas, vanilla ice cream and chocolate sauce
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pila Mulligan: after several burps I began to feel guilt :)
    Pila Mulligan: the mason was a no-show Steve -- kind of common
    Magdalena Colclough: you mean a bowl of fruit, calcium and antioxidants?
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, yes, thanks
    Pila Mulligan: now I feel better
    Magdalena Colclough grins
    stevenaia Michinaga: they are in demand, even today
    Pila Mulligan: so masons are are recession resistant?
    stevenaia Michinaga: they work to slow for there to be a mason recession... and it;s hard work so no one new wants to be one
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pila Mulligan: that gives me a laugh from having just experienced it
    Pila Mulligan: hello Kirka
    stevenaia Michinaga: ..smiles, next time ask
    Susi Alcott: hi Kirkra
    Kirkra Caerndow: Hello there!
    Magdalena Colclough: hi Kirka
    Pila Mulligan: this is a young Hawaiian fellow I've known for a while and he's aware that I'm happy for him to reschedule
    Adams Rubble: Hello Kirkra
    stevenaia Michinaga: welcome Kirkra
    Adams Rubble: yes welcome!
    Pila Mulligan: he's only 25 but he is an excellent mason
    stevenaia Michinaga: he will go far
    Pila Mulligan: he put an impression of fern leaves in an apron that was just artistic
    stevenaia Michinaga: a lasting impression, I;m sure
    Pila Mulligan: the apron was about ten feet of cement in front of a barn, and he laid half a dozen leaves from a hapuu fern tree in the wet cement at the edge
    Pila Mulligan: then took them out at just the right moment and there was the image of the leaves, just beautiful
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: I must go now. Good night everyone :)

    Adams departs and... speaking of masons.. I suggest the notion of man leaving something of permanence for a future time 

    stevenaia Michinaga: the hand of man/woman in stone and concrete leave something lasting for all who see it, like all the buildings in Adam's exhibition for generations in some cases. 
    Pila Mulligan: bye Adams
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Adams
    Magdalena Colclough: good night Adams
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_

    Susi Alcott relocates her position to where Adams was sitting in order to complete the line along the circle we were sitting in.  With the absence of a viable topic, Susi Alcott continues discussion sitting and posture.

    stevenaia Michinaga: nice of you to fill Adam;s empty spot, Susi
    Susi Alcott: ty
    Susi Alcott: went off the half circle cuz didn't want to make the hole but missed this sit :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Susi Alcott: don't sit like this in RL on chair; having the other leg touching the floor, but on the floor I sit prefers like this and often on sofa too
    Pila Mulligan: it is a very comfortable posture, if it i snot uncomfortable :)
    Susi Alcott: (even in publick places sometimes :)
    Pila Mulligan: is not*
    Susi Alcott: well...my body 'just takes' the posture...
    Pila Mulligan: some do ... some don't :)
    Pila Mulligan: mine does too
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Pila Mulligan: its the knees for many folk ... too stressful on the knees
    Susi Alcott: yea...not natural to all to sit like this...
    Susi Alcott: or halfly like I'm for example sitting on the chair now in RL
    stevenaia Michinaga: alignment can be a good posture in time if practiced
    Susi Alcott: (sometimes it's noticed in some publick place but ignored)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Pila Mulligan: I usually do it if I'm in a booth at a restaurant, where it is not a distraction
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Susi Alcott: well...there's been one topic in my mind for a while...

    Susi Alcott completes the thought and moves on to something a bit closer to the soul..... envy and jealousy

    Magdalena Colclough: what's that, Susi?
    stevenaia Michinaga: sitting?
    Susi Alcott: well...in a way we have 'touched' that now too
    Pila Mulligan: what is the topic?
    Susi Alcott: as I've met so many good people who has not understood how and why they 'create' envy in some people
    Susi Alcott: ...envy and jealousy...as they are much the same
    Magdalena Colclough: I have more experience with envy and jealousy than I would like
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders what is to be gained by either?
    Pila Mulligan: is the topic, how envy and jealousy are created?
    Magdalena Colclough: nothing at all
    Magdalena Colclough: I think they are an illness
    Susi Alcott: there's this one certain 'thing' that is not easy at all to understand always how much that
    Susi Alcott: 'creates' envy and that's something we all hear also are
    Susi Alcott: in a way creators of that , just because we can be what we are
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Susi Alcott: to us it's simple cuz we are what we are
    Pila Mulligan: authenticity breed contempt ...? :)
    Pila Mulligan: breeds*
    Susi Alcott: but that's something which is not common
    Pila Mulligan: nice topic
    Susi Alcott: it's still so that most of the people feel need to pretend to be something else
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm... though shall not covet, if you go by the commandments
    stevenaia Michinaga: they new much a long time ago
    Susi Alcott: could understand for you Maggie too that you've got such much onto just for that
    Pila Mulligan: facades and hidden agendas, that may be true in a substantial part of SL
    Magdalena Colclough: I'm not sure I understand what you just said, Susi
    Susi Alcott: that you also are what you are
    Susi Alcott: you dont pretend
    Susi Alcott: so; to you it's 'just being' ; obvious thing to do
    Susi Alcott: so you may have never thought that it's something such that people envy you
    Magdalena Colclough: I think I have more experience with envy from the other end of the spectrum
    Pila Mulligan: you mean for the simple ability to be oneself, Susi?
    Susi Alcott: yes
    Magdalena Colclough: it's something that I've struggled with for as long as I can remember
    Pila Mulligan: oh, do you covet, Maggie :)
    Magdalena Colclough: I do--and it's a horrible sickness
    Pila Mulligan: if so, it does not show :)
    Pila Mulligan: maybe you are sensitive to it
    Susi Alcott: are you Maggie trying to tell that you envy other people ?
    Magdalena Colclough: I don't know if any of you are familiar with enneagrams
    Pila Mulligan: what are they?
    Magdalena Colclough: yes, Susi--it's something I'm trying not to do, but I am not far along that path
    Magdalena Colclough: they're a personality type thing, but one of the types is characterized by always feeling that something is missing
    Susi Alcott: and you are sure that it's something that rises from yourself, that it's not something that you'd receive from other people ?
    Magdalena Colclough: and I think, when you feel that way, you look around and imagine that others have it, and you ache
    Pila Mulligan: some material thing?
    Magdalena Colclough: no, not usually material
    Pila Mulligan: can you give an example, not to pry, please keep your comfort in response
    Susi Alcott: I'd like to repeat my question to you Maggie
    Magdalena Colclough: I may receive it from others as well, Susi, but I definitely feel it myself
    Susi Alcott: sure
    Magdalena Colclough: let's see... an example
    Susi Alcott: that I meant Maggie
    Pila Mulligan: of something you imagine others have
    Magdalena Colclough: well, for example, I might imagine that someone has a really good marriage, and be envious of that
    Susi Alcott: have you understood when you have noticed somebody to envy you ?
    Pila Mulligan: I would be too, since they amount to about 5% of the married population :)
    Magdalena Colclough nods and smiles at Pila
    Magdalena Colclough: yes, Susi, I think I've been aware of times when people have envied me as well. All of us probably have
    Magdalena Colclough: it's so destructive
    stevenaia Michinaga: the awareness is?
    Magdalena Colclough: sometimes it's the best explanation for extremely irrational behavior or hostility
    Pila Mulligan: yes, frustration and anger are definitely there
    Pila Mulligan: behind envy
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Magdalena Colclough: both causing and caused by it, I think
    Pila Mulligan: but I am not one to minimize the need for judgment, and sometimes judgment leads to the same end
    Pila Mulligan: this is a foundation element of ethics
    Susi Alcott: yes
    Pila Mulligan: people can get really pissed off if you do not buy into there world sometimes
    stevenaia Michinaga: what can you do about people that envy you?
    Susi Alcott: you can think
    Pila Mulligan: good question Steve :)
    Susi Alcott: and your thoughts may be read
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: this is the ethics part :)
    Magdalena Colclough: I think sometimes just reminding them of your humanity can help diffuse it
    Susi Alcott: you can ---when you notice such---concentrate to the truth that there is no reason to them to envy you
    Susi Alcott: also you can think that 'particle' of the truth that the person who envies you can also stop the pretending 'now'
    Susi Alcott: sometimes it's even possible to say it with words with love
    Susi Alcott: depends for sure of many things
    Susi Alcott: but thoughts are always allowed to have and concentrate to them
    Susi Alcott: not to send better; just to 'keep' the thought 'up'
    Susi Alcott: then we cannot insult anybody's free will to choose if to receiver or not
    Susi Alcott: as our thought has the huge power
    Pila Mulligan: interesting topic, Susi
    Susi Alcott: have you Maggie thought such people to have happy marriage that you've felt envy for that, but found out later on that there marriage either is so perfect ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: why do I feel it is easy to "drop" such feelings?
    Magdalena Colclough: because you are a very wise soul, Steven
    Susi Alcott: because it's easy to you :)
    Pila Mulligan: another good question
    Magdalena Colclough: exactly, Susi
    Pila Mulligan: so maybe it is an advertising stimulated envy, modern day propaganda is really influential
    Magdalena Colclough: yes, Susi, I think often we imagine the things we envy to be far more perfect than they are. It's part of the illness of jealousy--that distortion
    Pila Mulligan: perfect teeth, no halitosis, picture-book marriages
    Magdalena Colclough: good point, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: just smoke Marlboros
    Magdalena Colclough: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: some may just wear a good suit?
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, the suits :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: others are the suit

    then there is another type of envy, those who envy what others do not want... in this case.. a big car... We compare the "oldness" of each other's cars and the spirits which reside inside them

    Pila Mulligan: does anyone here drive a Hummer?
    Pila Mulligan: i was about to make a comment there, but thought I'd check
    stevenaia Michinaga: does anyone want to?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Magdalena Colclough: corolla here
    Pila Mulligan: if it is not the ultimate product of an advertising world I'm not sure what else it is
    Pila Mulligan: wasteful, imposing etc
    stevenaia Michinaga: 10 yr old VW w/ 1/4 million miles on it
    Susi Alcott: Opel Vectra automatic with ceiling window, electric windows, cooler and locking with one push of the button
    Pila Mulligan: cool
    Pila Mulligan: 91 ford
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles at Susi
    stevenaia Michinaga: now we are trying to out un-do each other
    stevenaia Michinaga: laughs
    Pila Mulligan: well, at least we are Hummer free :)
    Susi Alcott: 1996 model; so ; dying one
    Pila Mulligan: once again Pila wins the geezer category
    Susi Alcott: maybe dies in a month already
    Susi Alcott: then I'll be without any kind of car :)
    Pila Mulligan: envy if you must :)
    Magdalena Colclough: my car and my cat are both going to live forever
    Pila Mulligan: 18 years on the same vehicle
    Pila Mulligan: that's how I feel too Maggie
    Pila Mulligan: have you named your car?
    stevenaia Michinaga: my cat licks better
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Magdalena Colclough: this is embarrassing--I did name it once, but I forgot the name
    Susi Alcott: maybe I'd need to envy you all :)
    Susi Alcott: lol
    Pila Mulligan: well, it is cool, I give my car tons of affection, and it is named Hina
    Magdalena Colclough: better than who/what Steven?
    Magdalena Colclough: what does Hina mean?
    stevenaia Michinaga: my car
    Pila Mulligan: Hina is the mother of the demigod Maui, i lived there in 91
    Magdalena Colclough: ahh
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Pila Mulligan: Hina was blessed by an Episcopal priest and a Hawaiian kahuna as soon a sI got her
    Magdalena Colclough: how cool!
    Pila Mulligan: and she is still going strong :) (knocks on wood)
    Susi Alcott: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems to have left an impression on her
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Magdalena Colclough: I should have had my house blessed. I meant to, but couldn't find the right person to do it...
    Pila Mulligan: you still can
    Susi Alcott: my ´Golden car' would need some preparing I may not be able to give her
    Pila Mulligan: someone will come along and  the right person
    Magdalena Colclough smiles
    Pila Mulligan: Susi, have you tried healing your Opel?
    Pila Mulligan: Opel*
    Pila Mulligan: I bet you can, seriously
    Susi Alcott: sadly I have been able to heal a car only from freezing twice
    Pila Mulligan: helping it thaw?
    Susi Alcott: and sadly I once even hurt my this Opel
    Susi Alcott: freezing
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, well your Opel no doubt understands
    Pila Mulligan: cars like affection
    Susi Alcott: as there was the so cold that the car we had those days wouldn't start without warming up the motor
    Pila Mulligan: this is going to be taken lightly maybe, but I believe it
    Susi Alcott: I claim that I know my Golden car also to have a spirit
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Susi Alcott: felt spirit in many cars
    Pila Mulligan: I have nice dreams with Hina
    Susi Alcott: like our old Opel; even my mom said that the car saved our life when the truck drove into its back
    Pila Mulligan: wow, was anything left of the Opel?
    Susi Alcott: but once I was so tired for so long drive, that my Golden car lost the knowledge from her computer and 'died'
    Susi Alcott: was not much left of that Opel
    Susi Alcott: she died completely, but her spirit chooses this new Opel ; guided me to her new body
    stevenaia Michinaga: hence the term reinCARnation
    Susi Alcott: thinking that the salesman never experiences such 'deal' and never shall
    Susi Alcott: lol
    Magdalena Colclough: haha Steven
    Susi Alcott: in a way yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pila Mulligan: just looked up the present owner of Opel -- it is GM unfortunately
    Susi Alcott: as nobody opened even the door when the deal was agreed
    Pila Mulligan: just saw Steve's pun -- very funny
    Susi Alcott: just looked at her and we knew
    Magdalena Colclough: my friends, I need to go
    Susi Alcott: took about few minutes to close the agreement and then the paper work started; took few minutes that too sure
    Magdalena Colclough: it was good to see you all
    Pila Mulligan: bye Maggie
    Susi Alcott: wishing you fine and funny time
    Magdalena Colclough: thanks, Susi
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Susi Alcott: ah..time did fly again :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I must get some rest for a busy week
    Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you all for joining me tonight
    Susi Alcott: Good Night and Sweet dreams :)
    Pila Mulligan: Monday's a holiday you know :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: for the employed, I am self-employed, never a holiday
    stevenaia Michinaga: and I like it that way
    Pila Mulligan: yep :)
    Pila Mulligan: have a good week
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Pila Mulligan: it must be early morning there Susi
    Susi Alcott: or late nite :)
    Pila Mulligan: oops

    I depart... and the conversation continues

    Pila Mulligan: it is about 6:30 p.m. here, so I was guessing 12 hours difference
    Pila Mulligan: for Europe
    Susi Alcott: yes
    Pila Mulligan: there is a car company in India that is making good cars at low cost, i cannot remeber their name
    Susi Alcott: but I have not slept this night either , so it can be taken late night now
    Pila Mulligan: ah, I see -- maybe you should try some rest :)
    Susi Alcott: don't need rest now
    Susi Alcott: hm
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Susi Alcott: sorry
    Susi Alcott: I'm resting now
    Pila Mulligan: it is Tata Motors, in india
    Pila Mulligan: they maybe the next big thing in world car sales
    Pila Mulligan: like Honda was
    Susi Alcott: meant that I do not need the rest logging out; I'm having better rest being here
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Susi Alcott: aha
    Susi Alcott: well; I hope I can heal this Golden car
    Pila Mulligan: I bet you can
    Pila Mulligan: between love and a good mechanic :)
    Susi Alcott: her name is such because in sunshine she looks golden even she is gray and that colour is also in her papers
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: Hina also means gray, a second meaning, and that is her color
    Susi Alcott: oh :)
    Pila Mulligan: I liked the combination of the name of a goddess and a color
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_

    The conversation moves on... and the evening concludes

    Pila Mulligan: have you seen Tarmel's SL house?
    Susi Alcott: no
    Pila Mulligan: folks here were complimenting her on it earlier
    Pila Mulligan: I have not seen any of the houses at this site
    Pila Mulligan: I don't even know where they are
    Susi Alcott: there are maps that many people know how to use but I don't
    Pila Mulligan: like a map of Bieup sim?
    Susi Alcott: there's maps of all
    Susi Alcott: I know a little how to use that but not the way that I'd get any good map into my mind that I'd understand
    Pila Mulligan: well, someday I'll ask someone to show me where they are :)
    Susi Alcott: ah
    Susi Alcott: Blieup is this region
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Susi Alcott: open 'Map'
    Susi Alcott: and you see more
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I was just lookin there
    Susi Alcott: you are the yellow circle
    Pila Mulligan: where is more?
    Susi Alcott: you can move the map with mouse
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I wonder if you can tell more about the buildings
    Susi Alcott: I don't know them
    Pila Mulligan: it just seems to give the location of them
    Susi Alcott: have not had time to explore
    Susi Alcott: yes
    Susi Alcott: they who know more do 'read' the colours and so
    Pila Mulligan: hmmm :)
    Susi Alcott: there is much info on the map but I don't have the knowledge
    Pila Mulligan: easier to have someone tell you where it is :)
    Susi Alcott: but if you have the LM you have the address
    Pila Mulligan: I do not have the landmark though
    Susi Alcott: or to let somebody to tp
    Pila Mulligan: is Adams' show still here?
    Pila Mulligan: her art place
    Susi Alcott: I have no knowledge of that either sorry
    Pila Mulligan: i tried to go there on the opening day but SL was too crowded and I could not do it
    Susi Alcott: ah...how was you thought to go there ?
    Susi Alcott: did you get the LM there ?
    Pila Mulligan: no
    Pila Mulligan: there was a tp at Kira's Cafe
    Pila Mulligan: I could not tp -- would crash
    Susi Alcott: ah
    Susi Alcott: do you know where Kira's Cafe is ?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Susi Alcott: if there was tp it can still be there
    Pila Mulligan: i think it was just there for opening day
    Susi Alcott: hm
    Susi Alcott: we could go and see
    Pila Mulligan: but maybe, would you like to go see?
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Susi Alcott: sure 
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