2009.02.16 07:00 - Learning and distraction

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Becka Finesmith. The comments are by Becka.

    Becka Finesmith: hi Myna
    Myna Maven: Hi Becka.
    Becka Finesmith: Sorry - Was on the phone.
    Myna Maven: :)
    Becka Finesmith: Very nice to meet you.
    Becka Finesmith: I've seen Pema's posts about you
    Myna Maven: Thanks. Nice to meet you.
    Becka Finesmith: HOw long have you been coming now?
    Myna Maven: I've been going to the lectures at Kira for about a month, and here off and on for the same time.
    Myna Maven: And you?
    Becka Finesmith: I don't seem to get inworld much lately :-( I have been coming to PaB for about 7 months or so
    Becka Finesmith: at least
    Fael Illyar: Hi Becka, Myna :)
    Becka Finesmith: i've been Gaurdian for about as long
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Fael
    Myna Maven: OK.
    Myna Maven: Hi Fael.
    Becka Finesmith: HOw are you?
    Fael Illyar: I'm good, a bit busy lately though :) How are you?
    Becka Finesmith: Same :-) It's getting harder to fit everything in :-( Something will have to give and soon
    Becka Finesmith: SO Myna, Are you managing to practice PaB?
    Myna Maven: I've practiced this kind of thing for a long time. But coming to the group, I started doing it with my son with the bell during the day.

    An interesting discussion about homeschooling ensued.

    Myna Maven: We homeschool and it is a nice reminder for us.
    Becka Finesmith: And ow is it working out?
    Myna Maven: It's working out well.
    Fael Illyar: Sounds good :)
    Fael Illyar: Somehow, since I started SL, my life started getting rather busier :)
    Becka Finesmith: Cool. May I ask you a fairly personal question?
    Myna Maven: Ha.
    Myna Maven: Me or Fael?
    Becka Finesmith: You Myna
    Myna Maven: Go ahead.
    Becka Finesmith: What made you chose homeschooling over conventional?
    Myna Maven: A number of reasons, actually.
    Myna Maven: We're artists and put a high priority on certain things that don't tend to be considered important in many schools.
    Becka Finesmith: ok. such as?
    Myna Maven: My husband is a musician and doesn't have a typical 9 to 5 schedule.
    Fael Illyar: Yes, for an artist, a regular schedule could even be said to be an impediment.
    Myna Maven: Reular school is suited for more 9 to 5 schedules.
    Becka Finesmith: this is true
    Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
    Myna Maven: And we're just not very conservative and live in a pretty conservative area.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Fa. Welcome, Myna...hi Becka!
    Myna Maven: Hi Corvi.
    Myna Maven: Becka, my son learns a lot through drawing. He draws hours every day.
    Myna Maven: And animates.
    Myna Maven: He wouldn't have been able to do this in a regular school.
    Becka Finesmith: hi Corvi
    Myna Maven: I knew very early on that regular school would have been a too constricting environment for him.
    Fael Illyar: I'd posit it's that for almost all children... if not all.
    Becka Finesmith: I understand. So how much time does he spend on regular curricular activities such as numeracy and literacy?
    Myna Maven: Fael, I think you're right. Also, where we live, they allow very little flexibility for kids, considering play not to be very educational.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: if he's on here...alot!
    Myna Maven: Becka, it depends.
    Myna Maven: We approach things on a daily basis.
    Becka Finesmith: ok. Sounds very interesting
    Fael Illyar: Personally, I just learn things when I need them.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what seems to me most interesting..did when i was a kid...was to learn strategies for learning.
    Myna Maven: Fael, there are homeschoolers who approach learning in this way. Unschoolers.
    Fael Illyar: I've somehow managed my approach even having gone through regular school.
    Becka Finesmith: Truthfully, I don't think I learnt much at school. I've done more learning since i left!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nodsnods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and..the learning i did at school..i directed myself for the most part.
    Fael Illyar: Certainly, most of the useful things I've learned were not learned at school.
    Myna Maven: That was something that worried us about school. My husband and I didn't learn much in junior and high school.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what was done FOR me at school was to leave materials where I could get to them, and a person or two who would answer my questions.
    Myna Maven: Where we spent our time learning was independently, in the library.
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Adams
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. to Myna..exactly.
    Myna Maven: Hi Adams.
    Becka Finesmith: I don't think I even did that! I was pretty uninspired
    Adams Rubble: Hello Myna, Corvi, Fael and Becka :)
    Myna Maven: Corvi, I consider myself fortunate, homeschooling, because there are so many resources available.
    Becka Finesmith: I used to play about with things that interested me rather then reading about them
    Fael Illyar: Internet is full of things useful for learning :)
    Myna Maven: Fael, it is. So much has appeared on it over the past few years.

    The conversation then turned to the wealth of information on the Internet and how it can be very distracting. What are the reasons for this distraction?

    Becka Finesmith: I was wondering the other day how we ever got quick access to information before the internet. I had trouble remembering! How quickly things change
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Fael Illyar: Well, internet is kind of revolutionazing technology :)
    Becka Finesmith: it certainly is
    Fael Illyar: When you increase the speed with which you can find information this radically... it's bound to make for big changes.
    Fael Illyar: or gain contact to people.
    Fael Illyar: both are, on average, at least a thousand times faster I'd say... I might even be understating it :)
    Myna Maven: I've gained contact to a number of interesting people through the internet. :)
    Myna Maven: And I mean that in a good way. :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I've had the same experience :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..yes., Myna.
    Becka Finesmith: me too. But it is also a bit of a time machine
    Becka Finesmith: I can log on and lose several hours :-(
    Fael Illyar: are they really lost?
    Becka Finesmith: In some cases yes
    Becka Finesmith: Don't you get sidetracked?
    Becka Finesmith: When I am interacting and looking for a particular thing, I get funnelled into looking for something I hadn't intended
    Fael Illyar: Ah, so "lost" here means time not spent doing what you decided you'd be doing?
    Myna Maven: Ah, Becka, I know how that feels.
    Becka Finesmith: it's like when they change the aisles at the supermarket to make you buy stuff youwouldn't have even thought of
    Myna Maven: There are times too when I can feel positively sodden with too much information.
    Becka Finesmith: exactly
    Myna Maven: Especially when I'm not producing as much as I'd like to creatively.
    Becka Finesmith: I'm so interested in "stuff", that it becomes difficuly
    Becka Finesmith: difficult
    Fael Illyar: in the long run, that interest is likely to pay off :)
    Becka Finesmith: Sometimes yes. But I don't think the return usually matches the investment for me. Perhaps I'm too easily distracted
    Fael Illyar: The interesting question, here, though, would be, why do you get distracted that easily?
    Becka Finesmith: Where information is concerned, I'm like a magpie
    Myna Maven: :)
    Becka Finesmith: I can help but go look at shiny new stuff
    Adams Rubble is getting distracted by the non-internet and must go. Bye all :)
    Fael Illyar: Of course but... that's a "symptom" so to speak. What are the causes?
    Myna Maven: Bye Adams.
    Becka Finesmith: bye Adams
    Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
    Becka Finesmith: Can you explain how to indentify the causes Fael?
    Fael Illyar: There's no procedure that I could really explain ... although some basics I guess.
    Becka Finesmith: I can give you a typical example
    Fael Illyar: For example, if you think about the question "why does this irrelevant information interest me more than getting this thing done?"
    Becka Finesmith: ahh
    Becka Finesmith: OK. I always think it will add something, but when I get to the end, I realise it was a red herring
    Fael Illyar: althogh, this question I just placed has some assumptions in it :)
    Becka Finesmith: The best thing for me to do would be to turn the computer off and stick to my books
    Fael Illyar: Hello shana :)
    shana Levenque: hi
    Myna Maven: Hello Shana.
    Becka Finesmith: it's not that it's more interesting, I just feel it may add a different perspective on something but rarely, eventually, does
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Shana
    shana Levenque: hi..
    Fael Illyar: Becka, would you mind analyzing this question I gave and listing the assumptions you see in it?
    Fael Illyar: that... thinking it will add something ... is it really thinking it will or that it might?
    Becka Finesmith: That's quite hard to identify.
    Becka Finesmith: let me think on that
    Fael Illyar: or is it thinking that if you do it enough, you will get something out of it?
    Becka Finesmith: OK - the assumption is that the irrelevant information is irrelevant. I'm not saying that it is, but that it could be and you don't know that when you get diverted
    Fael Illyar: Then there is the other side. Why is the sidetrack more attractive than what you were doing?
    Becka Finesmith: That's a very interesting question.
    Becka Finesmith: Often, I don't think it crosses my mind that it is more or less intereting.
    Becka Finesmith: interesting
    Fael Illyar: because, if it is more attractive, you won't be able to stay away from the computer even if that was sensible to get the thing done.
    Becka Finesmith: perhaps I'm just addicted to information :-(
    Becka Finesmith: it makes me lose focus
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Becka
    Becka Finesmith: lol @corvi
    Fael Illyar: symptoms again, look for the causes :)
    Becka Finesmith: you know what I'm talking about don't you Corvi ????
    Fael Illyar: I've had my own losing focus problems doing things :)
    Fael Illyar: especially things I think "I should" be doing.
    Becka Finesmith: that's a good observation Fael
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes, Becka.
    Becka Finesmith: Sometimes, the things I think I should be doing don't seem to have an immediate payoff
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm an addict
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I play a game sometimes with Wikipedia
    Myna Maven: What's that, Corvi?
    Becka Finesmith: perhaps we need an SL group for "info's annonymous"!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: where i see how far i can go with links...what i can find....
    Becka Finesmith: I've done that too!
    Fael Illyar: for me, it caused a certain loop. As long as there was something I think "I should do", when I concentrated on it, I was also, at the same time, punishing myself for not being done with it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: start with something random and follow links til I find something to play with..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: then after reading and thinking..follow them again.
    Myna Maven: I used to do that when I first came on, about 12 years ago.
    Fael Illyar: so, since concentrating on the thing caused me to punish mysef I avoided remembering it at all
    Becka Finesmith: That's interesting. Perhaps that's what I'm doing
    Fael Illyar: so, when I was trying to do something I thought "I should", I got distracted _very_ easily.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at Fa.
    Fael Illyar: even to things I normally would have thought boring
    Fael Illyar: like cleaning the house.
    Fael Illyar: although, usually things that were also on the "I should" list but below the one I was focusing my "I should" at, for the moment.
    Fael Illyar: so I wasn't focusing the "I should" belief on them at the moment, so could do them.
    Becka Finesmith: so how did you overcome that?
    Becka Finesmith: Put everything on the "I shouldn't" list?
    Becka Finesmith: like forbidden fruit?
    Fael Illyar: no, the "I shouldn't" list is for things you punish yourself for doing.
    Fael Illyar: well, in practise it's almost the same :)
    Becka Finesmith: :-) I might have to try this then. My safest bet is to turn the computer off! It's the only way I get anything done!
    Fael Illyar: but, don't put things in the "I shouldn't" list :)
    Fael Illyar: keep them off both lists :)
    Becka Finesmith: ok. I will try this :-)
    Fael Illyar: although, it's more than likely your mental models for these are more complex than just this :)
    Becka Finesmith nods
    Fael Illyar: So, don't be surprised if you find there are others things too that you were trying to compensate for wen you created your "I should" and "I shouldn't" lists
    Fael Illyar: and that those come to surface in the absence.
    Becka Finesmith: It's amazing how deep these experiences run
    Becka Finesmith: I have to go now (I have to pick up my Daughter). If anyone is staying on, can you send me the remaining chat log?
    Myna Maven: I need to get going as well, actually.
    Fael Illyar: just claim it from the recorder and you'll get it when this is done :
    Fael Illyar: with IM
    Fael Illyar: so, if offline and offline IMs come to your email, you'll get it to your email :)
    Becka Finesmith: oh - OK - Thanks Fael. And thanks for the chat :-) Bye everyone
    Myna Maven: Bye Becka.
    Fael Illyar: do you know how to claim it?
    Fael Illyar: See you later Becka :)
    Becka Finesmith: actually no - I thought I just touched it
    Fael Illyar: (just click th recorder, and choose claim)
    Myna Maven: You right click....
    Fael Illyar: but the below part
    Becka Finesmith: ok
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye becka!
    Fael Illyar: no left click for this one
    Myna Maven: You're right Fael, sorry.
    Myna Maven: The claim card comes up on your screen.
    Becka Finesmith: does nothing for me :( THis is the recorder in the pond?
    Fael Illyar: yes
    Becka Finesmith: left clicking does nothing
    Fael Illyar: you might be hitting the fountain nozzle
    Becka Finesmith: I clicked on where it says "Recording"
    Fael Illyar: ah, below that :)
    Fael Illyar: the grey pyramid in the fountain
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Fael Illyar: now you can see it better
    Fael Illyar: no, don't click my wings :)
    Myna Maven: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire is relieved the sound is gone, too.
    Becka Finesmith: ahh - maybe that's what I'm doing!
    Becka Finesmith: wooot
    Fael Illyar: Ah, there :)
    Myna Maven: Yeah!
    Fael Illyar: Now you can logout :)
    Becka Finesmith: Sorry - I couldn't see I was clicking on your wings!
    Fael Illyar: See you later Becka :)
    Becka Finesmith: thanks a million. See ya later,.
    Becka Finesmith: namaste
    Myna Maven: Well, I need to go as well, Fael, Corvi.
    Fael Illyar: See you later Myna :) Welcome to PaB :)
    Myna Maven: Thanks Fael.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye Myna
    Myna Maven: I'll see you guys later.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Fael Illyar: So, how are you today Corvi? :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm awright, you?

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