2009.02.16 13:00 - Continuity of Awareness

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.

    {The session’s discussion quickly centered on the implications of recent research in neuroscience, especially as these bear on the nature of consciousness and the important role played by pre-conscious processing.}

    Pila Mulligan: aloha Stim

    Stim Morane: Hi Pila!

    Pila Mulligan: how are you?

    Pila Mulligan: hi Adelene

    Stim Morane: Hi Adelene

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ Hi, guys.

    Pila Mulligan: hello Scath

    Stim Morane: I haven't seen that avatar before, Adelene

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm, it's fairly new.

    Stim Morane: I'm OK, Pila ... and you?

    Pila Mulligan: I'm fine thanks

    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim, Adelene, Pila:)

    Pila Mulligan: hi Adams

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Adams

    Adams Rubble: Hello Scath, Pila, Stim, Adelene and Vertigo :)

    Stim Morane: Hi Adams

    Vertigo Ethaniel: hi guys, hi adalene

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Vertigo

    Stim Morane: Hi Vertigo

    Stim Morane: Well, what shall we discuss today?

    Pila Mulligan: a few sessions ago, Stim, you mentioned that precognitive dreams usually relate to one's mother, as I recall

    Stim Morane: I said that somewhat as a joke ... but it's a joke with considerable truth in it.

    Pila Mulligan: this is an interesting observation

    Pila Mulligan: can you elaborate, please

    Stim Morane: I doubt that anyone really understands this in any detail.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: some freudian view on dreams?

    Stim Morane: But it's an historically-supported observation ... precognitive dreams about one's mother tend to be more common, and more accurate, than others.

    Stim Morane: I wasn't thinking about the Freudian angle.

    Stim Morane: I suppose one could say it has to do with some sort of special karmic connection.

    Stim Morane: But that doesn't really explain much.

    Pila Mulligan: is this the result of an academic study, or does it have a non-academic souorce

    Pila Mulligan: thinking of university stuff :)

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Stim Morane: No, you can see this popping up in Buddhist literature, biographies of masters.

    Pila Mulligan: intersting even more :)

    Stim Morane: It would not be unusual for a contemplative to never have any dream about her/his mother, except for one that predicts her impending death.

    Stim Morane: This is common, in fact.

    Pila Mulligan: wasn't the book (or a book) on dream yoga your work?

    Stim Morane: I haven't published a book on that subject ... I started to write one a decade ago, but injuries postponed its publication.

    Pila Mulligan: ahh, I read one about a decade ago

    Pila Mulligan: about the idea of retaining a continuity of consciousness between waking and dreaming

    Vertigo Ethaniel: thats very interesting

    Stim Morane: Well, I do teach things about that, but I can't say what you might have read.

    Pila Mulligan: all my books are still packed so I cannot look for it :)

    Stim Morane: I know the feeling.

    Stim Morane: I still have books packed up from the last time I thought I was moving.

    Adams Rubble still has books packed from a move 30 years ago :)

    Pila Mulligan: now there's continuity :)

    Stim Morane: Continuity of awareness is really only a kind of intermediate training. The main point is to appreciate the basis for continuity.

    Adams Rubble: Hello Threedee :)

    Pila Mulligan: hello Threedee

    Stim Morane: Hi Threedee.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Threedee

    Threedee Shepherd: Hi folks

    Pila Mulligan: would you elaborate on the basis for continuity of awareness, please, Stim?

    Stim Morane: The basis is something beyond what a "watcher" or "expert observer" could ever manage.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: im sorry, interesting discussion, but i need to figure out why my linux client is so slow

    Stim Morane: Also, it's more spiritually relevant.

    Stim Morane: Oh, sure, Vertigo

    Pila Mulligan: bye Verti

    Vertigo Ethaniel: see ya everyone

    Adams Rubble: bye

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Vertigo

    Adams Rubble: When you are talking about precognitive dreams, you are talking about dreaming about something that hasn;t happened yet?

    Stim Morane: Yes, or events at a distance that came to be known first to the dreamer

    Adams Rubble: hmmm

    Stim Morane: The topic just popped up ...

    Stim Morane: I'm not sure it's very important for PaB, although I appreciate Pila's mentioning it.

    Stim Morane: It depends on what we do with it, as always.

    Pila Mulligan: Maxine's dream workshop has been interesting

    Adams Rubble: Hello fefonz :)

    Pila Mulligan: hi Fefonz

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz:)

    Stim Morane: Hi Fefonz

    Adams Rubble: yes, I am sorry I miss all the workshops

    Fefonz Quan: Hello everyone :)

    Pila Mulligan: in her workshop Maxine has said there is a continuous element of dreaming going on, even when one is awake

    Stim Morane: Ah, I see.

    Stim Morane: That's yet another matter, and an interesting one.

    Adams Rubble waiting patiently for someone to say something about continuous dreaming :)

    Stim Morane: You first :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Pila Mulligan: well, okay

    Fefonz Quan: we are still dreaming ...'

    Stim Morane: sure

    Pila Mulligan: yes, after you Adams

    Adams Rubble knows notbing except that suddenly today i felt a tremndous surge of stress that is unexplained

    Stim Morane: Oh, sorry to hear that.

    Adams Rubble: Could that be related?

    Stim Morane: It's still affecting you?

    Adams Rubble: Yes

    Adams Rubble: Of course, I could be getting sick

    Stim Morane: Try taking a very full breath, all the way into every part of the lungs, then letting it out. Repeat a couple of times.

    Adams Rubble: It takes a little of the edge off but it is still there

    Stim Morane: Sorry

    Adams Rubble: ...but wondering about the continuous dreaming :)

    Pila Mulligan: and the basis for continuity of awareness

    Stim Morane: Well, that's Maxine's point ... we should get her comments when we can.

    Threedee Shepherd: The following may be a way to approach this topic. There is excellent evidence that only a tiny fraction of what the brain-body is doing that actually reaches consciousness. (A percentage 0.00..1, with many zeros). so most of what is going-on is pre-conscious or non-conscious. This is true when awake. Dreaming seems to involve a different way of accessing the pre-conscious/non-conscious that probably has some components that are identical to waking. so overlap of the experiences is liklely.

    Stim Morane: Yes.

    Pila Mulligan: wow, manhy zeroes

    Pila Mulligan: many*

    Pila Mulligan: I would have expected at least arounf 50%

    Pila Mulligan: d*

    Fefonz Quan: i wonder how they measure it

    Pila Mulligan: as a percentage of neurological activity?

    Fefonz Quan: the frontal lobes, mostly in charge of cognitive thought, is quite big

    Threedee Shepherd: Well, short-term memory is a good surrogatge for estimating conscious awareness. Shortterm memory typically contains 5+-2 "bytes" of information, and refreshes about 4 times per second.

    Threedee Shepherd: surrogate

    Pila Mulligan: thisis meataphorical, I hope :)

    Fefonz Quan: yes, but we don't remember all we aware off

    Fefonz Quan: any image we see is composed of some mega pixels,

    Threedee Shepherd: No, it is real. On a conscious level we don't know much about what is going on. One reason that is useful is that consciousness is delayed by about 0.25-0.5 seconds. If we relied on it to act, we would get eaten.

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must go now...will look forward to reading the rest. bye all :)

    Pila Mulligan: bye Adams

    Fefonz Quan: bye adams, hope you feel better :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams

    Threedee Shepherd: We only see the pixels in the 1/2 degree of solid angle that inpinges on our fovea bery clearly, the rest is exceptionally blurry

    Stim Morane: bye Adams

    Fefonz Quan: yes, that's why it's only few mega and not the `20 million pixels in the whole field of view

    Pila Mulligan: now is pixels beiung used metaphorically here or is that liteal also?

    Fefonz Quan: not metaphorically, the eye has basic image elements

    Pila Mulligan: what would be a layman's explanation of a pixel of the eye, please

    Fefonz Quan: it's a small raound area, that gives, for example, the ratio green/red on that area

    Pila Mulligan: hmmm

    Pila Mulligan: and this is a physical portion of the ey?

    Pila Mulligan: e*

    Threedee Shepherd: I was just looking that up. There are two ways to approach it. One is to determine the resolution of the fovea, another is to consider the number of cone receptors in the fovea, give me a sec to get the former, which I think is the better way

    Fefonz Quan: yes, on the rear of the eye wheel

    Scathach Rhiadra: I have to leave early too, see you all again soon, namasté:)

    Fefonz Quan: namaste :)

    Pila Mulligan: bye Scath

    Stim Morane: Bye Scathach

    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, the Fovea is the central region of the retina used for fine vision

    Fefonz Quan: yes, there are cones (for high resolution and color ) and

    Fefonz Quan: rodes for peripheral vission and night vision

    Fefonz Quan: (are we a little off topic?)

    Pila Mulligan: not for me :)

    Pila Mulligan: this is educational

    Pila Mulligan: Stim?

    Pila Mulligan: ok?

    Fefonz Quan: ok, since threedee when to the internet, i can just say what i remember

    Fefonz Quan: went*

    Fefonz Quan: in some sense, the back of te eye is like the ccd detector in your digital camera

    Pila Mulligan: when the time is ripe, after the eye physiology part here, I'm curious about how the neurological componets get made into a conscious picture, and whether the waking picture is simliar to the dreaming picture

    Wol Euler: hello invisibles :)

    Pila Mulligan: hi Wol

    Fefonz Quan: Hey Wol :)

    Stim Morane: Hi Wol

    Wol Euler: hello stim, 3d, ade, pila, fefonz.

    Adelene Dawner: Hiya Wol.

    Fefonz Quan: the information from the eye goes through the (ganglion) nerve-band to the brain, where there are a few regions that process visual images

    Fefonz Quan: (a considerable part of the brain)

    Fefonz Quan: the "output" of all those regions creates the image sense in the cognitive parts

    Fefonz Quan: (not totally expert here)

    Pila Mulligan: do you know if the sceince says the transmission to the cognitvie part is also in pixels?

    Fefonz Quan: if i recall, when we dream, the image is created not in the eye, but somehwere along the road

    Fefonz Quan: no, surely not

    Pila Mulligan: so it is a whole recognition of an image

    Fefonz Quan: yes, there is information of movements, lines, changes, edges and more sophisticated data

    Pila Mulligan: it is reported that dreamimages maye sometimes be more vivid that ordinary waking images -- hence my curiosity about whether recognition of the waking picture is simliar to the dreaming picture

    Wol Euler: I saw a docu on mathematical ability once that showed people who could use an abacus to calculate when it wasn't physically present.

    Pila Mulligan: wow, that's dexterity

    Wol Euler: they moved their fingers around where the beads wuodl have been had there been a physicl abacus, and came up with the right answer

    Fefonz Quan: for i'm not sure about more vivid, pila

    Threedee Shepherd: I don't think pixels are meaningful except as an analog of how the image is porocessed (BTW: I did research on the visual system for 40 years and it is too many lectures to summarize easily :)

    Wol Euler: there are apparently enough people who can do this that they hold championships in Invisible Abacus Maths

    Pila Mulligan: did oyur research approach the subject of the composiiton of a dream image, threedee?

    Fefonz Quan: well, when i was in high school, i solved 3-d geometry exercises without drawing...

    Pila Mulligan: I wonder if there could be invisible chess :)

    Fefonz Quan: there is invisible chess, surely, there are competitions even

    Stim Morane: Yes

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Fefonz Quan: (tried it once, takes a lot of effort:))

    Wol Euler: Koestler in the concentration camps wrote about invisile chess, and a few Russians inthe gulags did too

    Threedee Shepherd: at first approximation 20/20 acuity is one minute of arc and the fovea is about 1 degrss of arc, but that seems to yield too small a number so give me a bit longer. BUT, the key point is that the fovea "sees" only a tiny part of the visual scene, and that is the onoly part seen clearly. We "build up" the imager we are *aware* of by eye movements

    Fefonz Quan: and we do see the rest of the scene, but with less resolution

    Threedee Shepherd: If you are about 6 feet from another person, the region the fovea sees is about the size of their eyesocket

    Wol Euler: O.O is that all? wow

    Pila Mulligan: you should have seen the earlier statisic WOl ...

    Wol Euler: I'll read the log, presumably one letter at a time :)

    Pila Mulligan: "There is excellent evidence that only a tiny fraction of what the brain-body is doing that actually reaches consciousness. (A percentage 0.00..1, with many zeros). so most of what is going-on is pre-conscious or non-conscious"

    Threedee Shepherd: Yes we do Fefonz, with acuity falling off rapidly as distance from the fovea increases. There are literally hundreds of published papers that report the parameters

    Wol Euler: indeeed

    Pila Mulligan: Threedee, you also said dreaming seems to involve a different way of accessing the pre-conscious/non-conscious that probably has some components that are identical to waking -- is this an area where there has been much scientific research?

    Threedee Shepherd: Slowly, over the past 5-years, yes.

    Pila Mulligan: if you can give me a starting place, I'd love to google some of it, if possible

    Fefonz Quan: according to wikipedia - 120 milion rode cells and 6 million cone cells over the eye

    Threedee Shepherd: OK, by the most optimistic estimates, the fovea would equal only about 200,000 pixels

    Fefonz Quan: ok, much more than 2-5 bits a second

    Threedee Shepherd: The issue is the density of cones in the fovea and the limitations of the optics of the eye

    Fefonz Quan don't really sure what that means, i think we can go on

    Threedee Shepherd: no, I think that is mixing "metaphors". If I ask you what you are aware of consciouslyu, using quantitative measures, that's 5 x 4 = 20 bytes second. The information going to the brain that does not reach conscious awareness IS extremely greater than that. That is my point.

    Fefonz Quan: i thought i am aware of many details in the image i see

    Adelene Dawner: There's a lot of processing between the 200k pixels seen by the fovea and what reaches consciousness. The bulk of it is about sorting what's useful from what's not and only passing what's useful forward.

    Fefonz Quan: if i am at a dark room, and you flash an image for 1/5 a second on my eye, i would be able to describe hundreds of facts about it

    Threedee Shepherd: Exactly, Fefonz, the fact that we "build uP' a "memory imager" of what we are seeing, filling in most of it based on expectations, has been called "the grand illusion"

    Fefonz Quan: (and that's after processing)

    Threedee Shepherd: No you would not, based on real experiments

    Fefonz Quan: well, i guess most of the data i will describe will be correct

    Adelene Dawner: If it's a picture of something you're familiar with, yes, because it'll map to stored data which assists the processing. Even with that, you'd maybe at best be able to say 'that was a line drawing of a rabbit'.

    Threedee Shepherd: If I show you a modest forest, you may be able to teell me one of two tree types, you will have no idea how many trees you saw, other than many. I could have ten animals in plain view and you might notice one--such experiments have been long done.

    Fefonz Quan: well, that is a lot of information (just saying that took you 20 bytes)

    Fefonz Quan: not bits

    Wol Euler: I find that my impression of my memories is far more vivid than they actually are. I believe that I remember the Tenniel illustrations to "Alice" in great detail, but when I try to recall one I quickly run out of data.

    Fefonz Quan: i surely agree a lot will be missing

    Stim Morane: Sorry to interrupt, but I must go now. I forgot to click on the fountain when I entered … did one of you accept the log?

    Wol Euler: you can still do it now, stim

    Adelene Dawner: You can claim it now, Stim.

    Threedee Shepherd: The line drawing of the rabbit is actually close to one byte of information. The size of the byrte in bits depends on the context

    Wol Euler: timing is not significant

    Fefonz Quan: you don't need to click, just claim it now

    Stim Morane: OK, thanks! See you another time!

    Pila Mulligan: bye Stim

    Wol Euler: bye stim, take care

    Stim Morane: Bye everyone!

    Fefonz Quan: well, if rabbit is one byte, than we should redefine information

    Threedee Shepherd: Wol, I am hazy on this. When I am GoC how do I claim the log? Can I get 0opne from days ago?

    Adelene Dawner: If you know what a rabbit is already, pointing to that information takes one byte.

    Wol Euler: um, not by clicking on it.

    Threedee Shepherd: thank you ade

    Fefonz Quan: do you know the thought experiment where i can give you a billion bytes by just one line?

    Wol Euler: tell Fael or I which one you need and we can get the URL for you.

    Wol Euler: it must be claimed while the session is still running.

    Fefonz Quan: i dont agree adelene

    Fefonz Quan: (try to implement it in softwae

    Threedee Shepherd: Monday, February 2, Friday Feb 13

    Adelene Dawner pokes Three. "This is more your territory than mine; help?"

    Fefonz Quan: this is one access maybe, to a very long hash table

    Wol Euler: which times, Threedee?

    Threedee Shepherd: A bit is defined as a single piece of information. It takes one bit (of value 0 or 1) to determine whether a light switch is on or off. For me to say to you typing; The lightswitch that is in my room in ON" obviously takes lots of bits. Frame of reference is critical.

    Threedee Shepherd: 1700 hours

    Wol Euler: feb 02 is [this URL]

    Wol Euler: feb 13 is [that URL]

    Fefonz Quan: if you point me to the word rabbit in a book, but there are million word in that book, so the information you gave me is the position,

    Fefonz Quan: so you need 20 bits (or six decimal numbers) to do that

    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, but all of them do not need to reach your consciousness to know which picture I am pointing at

    Threedee Shepherd: Thaniks Wol. How do I claim the log when I am GoC at a session

    Fefonz Quan: well, when i see an image, i need a lot of information before i can recognize it's a rabbit

    Adelene Dawner: yes, that's the 200k bytes part.

    Adelene Dawner: er

    Adelene Dawner: pixels

    Wol Euler: by clicking onthe stony base of the fountain. The dialog that appars has several optoins, among them is "claim". Stopping the session will also claim it if it wasn't previously done

    Pila Mulligan: This is probably old stuff to you guys, but I just recently saw it and enjoyed it -- it relates to the idea of making image in part from expectations (or non-expectations, as the case may be):

    Pila Mulligan: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=basketball%20ape%20video&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#q=perception+basketball+ape&hl=en&emb=0

    Wol Euler: yes, I remember taht. I missed it completely!

    Adelene Dawner nods at Pila. "Probably not new, but I'll look later" :D

    Threedee Shepherd: Only if you have never before seen a rabbit. You have a statistical rabbit in your memory. Your brain compares what you saw with lots of those images (in parallel) and reports to consciousness the single bit of information rabbit, as the most likely thing you saw

    Pila Mulligan: me too wol

    Pila Mulligan: :) Ade

    Wol Euler: I was thinking of locating "rabbit" as being like pushing a dozen kniting needles into a huge cube of jello and seeing where they interset

    Pila Mulligan: don't give it away, just in case it is new for Ade :)

    Fefonz Quan: yes, it's a nice one pila :)

    Wol Euler: :)

    Adelene Dawner: Fine, I'll go look now :)

    Threedee Shepherd: How does the GoC "stop the session" (I'm sorry if I missed all this before)

    Wol Euler: also by clicking on the base, and choosing "stop". Though it also stops by itself as soon as the last person leaves

    Threedee Shepherd: Well locating rabbit is still a different issue.

    Fefonz Quan: when i see a rabbit, i am aware of it's color, shape, etc.

    Threedee Shepherd: Thank you wol

    Wol Euler: yw

    Pila Mulligan: for some reason the basketball video i snot showing on the lnik now --it iisnot the obscene one

    Wol Euler: heheheheh

    Fefonz Quan: so i still have also some more basic data than just the output (rabbit)

    Wol Euler: I think seeing a rabbit is very different from hearing someone say the word "rabbit"

    Fefonz Quan: exactly, thank you Wol :0

    Threedee Shepherd: If I show you the rabbit either quickly or slowly enough I can fool you as to its color easily. What we "think" we are aware of vs. what we actually are aware of, is based on prior experience that generates expectations

    Fefonz Quan: and patting it different also

    Threedee Shepherd: to some degree seeing, touching, hearing the name are the different. In fact, much current research is trying to see whether all refer to a single common "base" "lexicon" as a source

    Adelene Dawner: I've seen that before, Pila, but I found it too challenging to keep track of the passes and had given up before the bunny-or-whatever-it-is comes onto the scene.

    Fefonz Quan: as i said, even a choce from pre-expected set of results is a lot of information

    Pila Mulligan: an ape

    Pila Mulligan: an ape i did ont notice, by the way

    Adelene Dawner: *nods*

    Threedee Shepherd: yes it IS alot of information, the only point I was trying to make is that only a tiny end result amount of that information reaches conscious awareness.

    Wol Euler: when someone says "rabbit" I think of Tenniel's Alice, and of dinner. When I see one, neither of those comes up. The nodes are differently linked.

    Adelene Dawner: (That's actually a very good example of an experience I have on an almost constantly difficult to manage basis.)

    Fefonz Quan: yes, and when i ear it it is always white ;)

    Adelene Dawner: (@ Pila)

    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, they are differently linked, whether they have a common base is still an experimental question.

    Pila Mulligan: (from what I am hearing, it is proably so for most everyone, it in fact we are only seeing a small percentage of what is happening @ Ade)

    Threedee Shepherd: absolutely true, Pila--I say emphatically

    Adelene Dawner: (Yes, but most people don't seem to have to choose between processing heard words, processsing body language, and thinking of words to speak)

    Fefonz Quan: Three, i totally agree that there is a hugh compression of the information before reaching our consciousness

    Adelene Dawner: Moon!

    Threedee Shepherd: yes, the fact they don't have to choose IS because the non-conscious processes take caare of that by default

    Wol Euler: um, do we though? I had an interesting experience lately. In a hotel in England, I smelled smoke during hte night, and knew instantly where the fire extinguisher and the exit were. But I did not "know" that, I had not registered seeing either of those and could not have told you had you asked me while we were in the restaurant.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Moon

    Moon Fargis: greetings :)

    Wol Euler: hello moon

    Fefonz Quan: high moon :)

    Moon Fargis purrzzzzzzzzz

    Threedee Shepherd: the fact that such info was non-conscious, Wol, does not necessarily imply it was not stored in some form of memory.

    Threedee Shepherd: hello Moon

    Moon Fargis: ^^/

    Wol Euler: exactly my point :) I registerd but did not "know"

    Wol Euler: I found that fascinating.

    Fefonz Quan: yes

    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm

    Adelene Dawner: Your processing system found those things important enough to store in memory but not important enough to report to your conscious mind. Not too-too surprising, to me.

    Adelene Dawner giggles at Moon.

    Wol Euler nods

    Threedee Shepherd: Pila, Fefonz, Wol, the points I am making about "degree of conscious awareness" are very important and basic, in the study of cognition. Many people have trouble accepting them when the ideas are first presented. I hope I have provided enough background to make my pooints clear.

    Wol Euler nods. No disagreement here.

    Pila Mulligan: yes, thanks Threedee

    Fefonz Quan: yes, thanks threedee

    Pila Mulligan: it was s startling statisitc, all those zeroes :)

    Wol Euler: um, yes, and thank you:)

    Threedee Shepherd: You are welcome. I taught this stuff and just tried to distill about 2-weeks worth of class sessions ^.^

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^

    Wol Euler chuckles

    Fefonz Quan: though, surely we would like our concsoiusness to deal with only very high level data

    Pila Mulligan: how about dream image recongiiotn, can you give me a google search idea?

    Pila Mulligan: the nuerologicl part

    Threedee Shepherd: Dream image recognition. Try dreams or dreaming and tetris and that may bring up one of the more recent studies

    Pila Mulligan: ok, thanks

    Fefonz Quan: i'll have to go, good bye all :)

    Pila Mulligan: bye Fefonz

    Wol Euler: bey fefonz, take care

    Adelene Dawner: cya, Fefonz.

    Moon Fargis: bye ^^

    Threedee Shepherd: Basically, experimenters took complex measures of EEG data while a novice was learning to play tetris. During sleep, that persons brain played back those same EEG patterns many times, as if practicing.

    Wol Euler: huh

    Threedee Shepherd: was that a huh of surprise, Wol, or a Huh that I did not make any sense?

    Wol Euler: great surprise, you made sense :)

    Threedee Shepherd: It surprised everyone!!

    Pila Mulligan: The Tetris effect is the ability of an activity to which people devote sufficient time and attention to begin overshadowing their thoughts, mental images, and dreams. -- Wiki

    Threedee Shepherd: Good ole Wiki

    Wol Euler nods. I dream of programming sometimes, I see myself amid _entities_ that represent data being modified and stored

    Pila Mulligan: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=tetris-dreams

    Pila Mulligan: what type of entities Wol?

    Threedee Shepherd: The tetris effect is probably why when you can't solve a problem and "sleep on it" you find you know the answer as soon as you awken.

    Wol Euler: hard to say :) three-dimensional, concepts rather than numbers or objects. If you can imagine a concept taking 3d form...

    Pila Mulligan: does this suggest we may expereince a PaB effect :)

    Pila Mulligan: it is not somehitng I have expereinced, but I can imagine it :)

    Adelene Dawner: Not everyone can do that. ^.^

    Adelene Dawner: Three can't. I can.

    Wol Euler: it relates to my vision of the cube of jello and knitting needles, I htink

    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm

    Wol Euler: I do deal with concepts as volumetric objects, somehow

    Adelene Dawner nods.

    Adelene Dawner: Probably pretty common, but as far as I know there's not much in the way of studies yet.

    Threedee Shepherd IS working on trying to access the three-dimensional mental imagery ^.^

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ @ Moon

    Wol Euler: aah :)

    Adelene Dawner: cooool, Three.

    Wol Euler: I'll be a guinea pig if you can get me to the lab :)

    Adelene Dawner: In the personal sense, Wol. He's already made some kind of progress on getting synesthesia going ^.^

    Wol Euler: ah, sorry :) but hte offer does stand...

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^

    Pila Mulligan: well, Pila needs to turn to some rl tuff, this has been a most interssting session

    Pila Mulligan: thanks for all the ideas :)

    Adelene Dawner: cya, Pila ^.^

    Moon Fargis: ^^/

    Threedee Shepherd: indeed, thanks for putting up with my "data dumps"

    Wol Euler: and I have a bed with my name on it :)

    Moon Fargis: see you pila

    Pila Mulligan: aloha everyone

    Adelene Dawner: 'putting up with'? ^.^

    Threedee Shepherd: bye, wol, thanks for the logs

    Wol Euler: not "putting up" at all, threedee. I am delighted to have heard you "live" as it were

    Threedee Shepherd: ^.^

    Wol Euler: I am saddened that I am never awake for the 7pm sessions, those are fascinting

    Moon Fargis: well sure but sleepping is also facinating dont you think ?:)

    Wol Euler: oh yes, one of my favourite activities.

    Wol Euler: I look forward to going to bed, to dreaming again.

    Moon Fargis: hmhm :)

    Wol Euler resists the urge to tug gently on Moons tongue.

    Moon Fargis pokes adelene "watcha looking at ?:)"

    Wol Euler: goodnight all, take care. and thank you for a great discussion.

    Moon Fargis: eep

    Moon Fargis: gute nacht wol :)

    Wol Euler: schlaf gut, liebster.

    Adelene Dawner pokes Moon back. "Somethin' silly." ^.^

    Moon Fargis: *grinz*

    Moon Fargis: where?

    Moon Fargis: i dont see such thing

    Moon Fargis: haha

    Adelene Dawner stands up, then stands on tiptoe to boop Moon's nose. "Riiiight... there!"

    Moon Fargis: eep

    Threedee Shepherd: Well, Moon and Ade, if we agre going to make progress ono the MiamiDade build, I need to go finish the Millennium Sensor stuff, so I will see you again later

    Adelene Dawner: ok, Luv. *hug* ^.^

    Moon Fargis: okay

    Moon Fargis: sure ^^

    Moon Fargis whispers to adelene "press my nose"

    Adelene Dawner: ^.^

    Moon Fargis: ill better save this av :)

    Adelene Dawner giggles.



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    Originally written on 07:47, 19 Feb 2009
    I took out the URLs to forestall some cleverclogs hacking into our autologging DB.
    Posted 06:48, 9 Apr 2010
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