2009.02.21 19:00 - Initiations and Trajectories of Journeys to PaB

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Myna Maven.  The comments are Myna's.


    Scathach Rhiadra soon followed my arrival.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Myna:)
    Myna Maven: Hi, Scath.
    Myna Maven: How are you tonight?
    Scathach Rhiadra: good, and you?
    Myna Maven: Good. Was enjoying a movie before I logged in.
    Scathach Rhiadra: will you miss the ending?
    Myna Maven: No. I have a DVD of it.
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah:)
    Myna Maven: Hi, Adelene.
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Adelene:)

    In my background, off in another room, Fellini's search for expressing himself as the director continued on the television.

    We were soon joined by Adelene Dawner and  briefly continued a discussion from the 07:00 PaB.  Pema Perma arrived during this time.

    Adelene Dawner: Hi, guys ^.^
    Myna Maven: I hope you got a good nap in earlier. :)
    Adelene Dawner: I did, eventually.
    Adelene Dawner: 'bout 5.5 hours.
    Adelene Dawner is approacing sane again ^.^
    Myna Maven: Ah, good. More than a nap.
    Myna Maven: :)
    Myna Maven: You were talking about the study of brain waves, this morning, Adelene.
    Adelene Dawner: It's not something I know a *whole* lot about, but was there something you wanted to know?
    Myna Maven: I had mentioned that I heard an interesting story about Hans Berger.
    Adelene Dawner: Oh, yeah. We never did get back to that. (sorry)
    Myna Maven: What initiated his study.
    Pema Pera: Hi Adelene, Scathach, Myna!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema
    Myna Maven: Oh...no reason to be sorry.
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Pem ^.^
    Myna Maven: Hi, Pema.
    Myna Maven: Anyway, I thought I'd relate that little bit of a story now.
    Myna Maven: Just the little I'd heard, and then read.
    Myna Maven: He'd had an accident on a horse. His sister, who was elsewhere, sensed he was in danger. And it was this that prompted his interest.
    Myna Maven: He had become convinced in telepathy which led to his research.
    Adelene Dawner listens attentively ^.^
    Myna Maven: I just thought it was an interesting story.
    Myna Maven: That this was what led to the EEG.
    Adelene Dawner: Neat ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: I hadn't known that.
    Myna Maven: I hadn't either until a couple days ago.
    Pema Pera reading up on Hans Berger on wikipedia :)
    Pema Pera: how interesting indeed!
    Pema now introduced what was to be the recurring, primary discussion point of the session: what initiated the journeys of different individuals which eventually found them at PaB?  Adelene and Pema offered their stories.
    Pema Pera wondering what kind of experiences brought all of us onto the kind of trajectories that then led us to meet here in PaB . . . .
    Myna Maven: Hmmm :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: "what horse did you fall off?" kind of question
    Adelene Dawner: I think you know what got me here, Pem - Three mentioning how close my natural philosophy is to Buddhism, and me stumbling on it in my research on that.
    Pema Pera: For me it was an early fascination with science, and really tinkering and exploring, from model railroads to rockets to motorcycles -- and then hearing at age 17 that you could explore and tinker/play with your mind as well . . . .
    Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
    Myna Maven: Hi Eliza.
    While I was busy imagining a teenage Pema having fun with model railroads (insert choo-choo sounds) and rockets (blast off, whirrr) and motorcycles (roarrr), Eliza Madrigal arrived, followed by Buddha Nirvana and Stim Morane.  I botched trying to IM copies of the chat thus far to the fresh arrivals and the meeting survived and continued on as to the trajectories that led individuals to PaB.  Scathach and Buddha next recounted their initial spurs.
    Eliza Madrigal: Evening all :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Eliza
    Myna Maven: How do I copy the text and send it to Eliza so she can see the discussion thus far?
    Pema Pera: Good to see you again!
    Pema Pera: cut and paste from the "local chat" window into an IM
    Pema Pera: (if that makes sense, Myna; does it?)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you, you as well.
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Myna
    Myna Maven: Hmmm... I can highlight but I'm not finding where to copy.
    Adelene Dawner: ctrl-c
    Adelene Dawner: ctrlv- to paste.
    Adelene Dawner: ctrl-v
    Pema Pera: or command-c on a Mac
    Pema Pera: etc
    Myna Maven: OK, thanks. I got it.
    buddha Nirvana: Hi all :))
    Eliza Madrigal: buddha...been ages! Ha :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello buddha
    Myna Maven: Hi, Buddha, Stim.
    buddha Nirvana: :o!
    Scathach Rhiadra: hello Stim
    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach and all!
    Adelene Dawner: Bit of a non sequitor, I guess, but it's funny how clear that 'it's always now' thing is, in my current state. I keep looking at the clock, but even that isn't sticking well as far as 'what time it is'.
    Thanks to Adelene, for a while I delighted in picturing a clock on my monitor coming unstuck and falling away. 
    Pema Pera: Hi Stim!
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Myna...
    Pema Pera: hi Buddha!
    buddha Nirvana: halo! :)
    Stim Morane: Pema
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Buddha, Stim.
    Stim Morane: Hi Adelene
    Myna Maven: Oh, darn. I see that I've been IMing the chat to people but I don't think it was the full chat. I'm sorry. I thought I had copied everything.
    Myna Maven: And I hadn't.
    Pema Pera: We were talking about what kind of experiences started us off on the trajectories that eventually led to meeting here in PaB; Adelene and I volunteered to say something, and now we're still waiting for the others :-)
    Pema Pera: (if they feel like, that is, of course)
    Scathach Rhiadra: well, how far back do you go:
    Pema Pera: as many lives as you like, Scat :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Myna Maven: I remember watching the light and shadow from my bed as a toddler and I think that was where I started. :)
    buddha Nirvana: long journey
    Scathach Rhiadra: I've always been interested in the difference between believing and knowing
    Scathach Rhiadra: and never felt that what we see is all that there is, so to speak
    Myna Maven: Indeed.
    Scathach Rhiadra: my Grandmother spent most of her life in India, so my earliest memories are the Buddha statues and Indian furniture she had in her house, got me interested in Buddhism at an rearly age

    Fascinated by Scathach's history, I spent a good while trying to imagine why her grandmother was in India, visualizing her house and its rooms and its furnishings and the effect this may have had on Scathach as child...and would have had on me.  And I recollected one of my early childhood friends who was from India and how marvelous to me was a necklace of ivory elephants her parents gave my mother.  I wished I knew more about Scathach's story, just as I'd wished I knew more about Pema's, my imagination having taken the liberty to fabricate his childhood room just as I was now fabricating Scathach's grandmother's house.

    Then with Buddha's remarks (following), I was now juggling imagining Pema's childhood room, Scathach's grandmother's house, and Buddha awakening, as a child, from his dreams that were populated by strange beings. No excuse of Buddha's, Maurice Sendak's creatures were now, in my mind, circulating the pavillion.  I, of course, have no idea how Buddha's dream beings may have appeared.

    buddha Nirvana: i use to have dreams when i was around 4, strange beings, since then ive always been interested in the 'differnt'
    Eliza Madrigal: (I read something about that today...dream yoga book)
    Pema Pera: do you remember which book, Eliza?
    buddha Nirvana: (sound v interesting)
    Eliza Madrigal: That is what it was called, I think
    Eliza Madrigal: A part of it had to do with teachers and sleep
    Scathach Rhiadra: is that like sleep yoga?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes
    buddha Nirvana: Is it similar to TM?
    Pema Pera: By Namkhai Norbu perhaps?
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think so...
    Eliza Madrigal: I read it in Barnes and Noble....spent 2 hrs there. Apologies. Let me see if I can find the title.
    Now we were searching on our browsers for the dream book Eliza had been reading.  She soon found the title.
    Eliza Madrigal: The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and Mark Dahlby
    Pema Pera: ah, thank you!
    Eliza Madrigal: Was interesting...a little part about parallels between sleep and the Tibetan bardo
    buddha Nirvana: does it mention anything about the Bardos in it?
    Myna Maven: Looking at it on Amazon.
    buddha Nirvana: ah lol
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Bon I think
    buddha Nirvana: you may want to read 'the tibetan book of the dead' eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes...one of the things I'm about :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks :) Didn't mean to sidetrac
    Buddha and Pema settled into an involved discussion on Buddha's Theravadan discipline. 
    Pema Pera: Buddha, you sometimes give talks on Zen here in SL?
    buddha Nirvana: yes, sorrt
    buddha Nirvana: sorry
    buddha Nirvana: Not zen, no. Theravadan
    buddha Nirvana: i know very little of zen
    Pema Pera: Group Notice From: Delani Gabardini Please join Buddha Nirvana at 2 PM SLT at the Buddha Center today for a zen talk and meditation namaste This notice has an attachment.
    Pema Pera: is a note I recently got :)
    buddha Nirvana: yes, that was an error :/
    Pema Pera: ah, okay!
    buddha Nirvana: i had a few questions i couldnt answer :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    buddha Nirvana: i recite passages of dhamma for the purposes of 'right understanding'
    Pema Pera: from the Dhammapada?
    buddha Nirvana: that is my favoured passage :)
    Pema Pera: the one in your profile, you mean?
    buddha Nirvana: yes, sorry
    Pema Pera: a very succint summary indeed!
    buddha Nirvana: yes, it encapsulates the teaching well
    Pema Pera: perhaps for the readers of the log, later, here is the text:
    Pema Pera: He who has gone for refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha, sees with right knowledge the Four Noble Truths - Sorrow, the Cause of Sorrow, the Transcending of Sorrow and the Noble Eightfold Path which leads to the Cessation of Sorrow. Dhammapada - verse 190
    Pema Pera: (from Buddha Nirvana's profile)
    Myna Maven: Yes, good idea.
    Pema Pera: Do you teach Vipassana here in SL, Buddha?
    buddha Nirvana: no, im encouraged not to teach it but refer those interested to a retreat so they can learn the technique properly
    Pema Pera: Yes, I can see pros and cons to trying to teach that in SL . . . .
    Corvuscorva Nightfire arrived and there were some friendly shufflings in seating.  The discussion between Pema and Buddha continued, and Buddha described a process of refinement of the self through purification of impurity.
    Pema Pera: Hi Corvi!
    Adelene Dawner: Hi, Luv ^.^
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the readings...gives time to reflect after each. "Se Lah" :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Luv..Hi all.
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Corvi:)
    Myna Maven: Hi Corvi.
    buddha Nirvana: yeah, plus my sangha prohibits it
    Pema Pera: in general, in RL also, Buddha?
    Pema Pera: or only in SL?
    buddha Nirvana: yes
    Stim Morane: Hi Corvi
    buddha Nirvana: its a complex technique and students dont have the facility to communicate it effectively
    Pema Pera: yes, I understand, that makes sense
    buddha Nirvana: if you are interested perhaps visit the web site
    buddha Nirvana: they have course centers world wide
    Pema Pera: which web site?
    buddha Nirvana: www.dhamma.org
    Pema Pera: thanks!
    buddha Nirvana: :)) let me know how it goes if you attend :)
    buddha Nirvana: 10 days of silence 14 hours of meditation
    buddha Nirvana: every day
    Pema Pera: yes, I have heard of those, and know various people who attended such retreats -- pretty intense :)
    buddha Nirvana: very much so yes
    Pema Pera: We'll have our own little Play as Being retreat in August, a bit less intense I think
    Pema Pera: and shorter too
    buddha Nirvana: akin to performing surgery on the mind
    Pema Pera: I had suggested a week and a bit, but it became a week minus a bit :)
    buddha Nirvana: ah nice :)
    buddha Nirvana: lol
    Pema Pera: does the mind need surgery, you think?
    Adelene Dawner grins at Pem.
    buddha Nirvana: i think there are alot of impurities in the mind, yes
    buddha Nirvana: in my mind anyways :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but...
    Pema Pera: the appearance of impurities yes . . .
    buddha Nirvana: yeah, appearences are decieving
    Pema Pera: sometimes . . .
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pema Pera: it is interesting to work with appearance directly, independent of our judgment of them
    Pema Pera: but I think vipassana is effectively doing something like that, right?
    buddha Nirvana: enturely right yes
    Pema Pera: just paying attention to what appears, without judging
    buddha Nirvana: Observing
    Pema Pera: so pure or impure, does that matter while doing vipassana?
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting line of thinking though..."nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so"
    buddha Nirvana: not pemma, not atall, every sensation is to be treated equally - with detchmant and non-reaction
    Pema Pera: so how does that compare with surgery, if I may ask?
    Pema Pera: not trying to argue, just curious
    buddha Nirvana: beacause you peel back the layers of the mind, probe the depths of the mind
    buddha Nirvana: akin to layers of the skin perhaps
    Pema Pera: ah, yes, you learn to see more clearly
    buddha Nirvana: every layer is the same consisting of various sensation
    buddha Nirvana: as you remain detached - an observer the sensations cease
    buddha Nirvana: and then you come to another layer of sensation
    buddha Nirvana: again remain an observeer and they too cease, so you are purifying the mind
    buddha Nirvana: ridding of accumulated sensations or kalapas
    Myna Maven: By detached you mean entirely dispassionate?
    buddha Nirvana: yes
    Pema Pera: may I offer an alternative view, again, not to argue, but perhaps a complementary way of looking at the same thing?
    Eliza and Adelene offered questions and comment.  And Pema presented an alternative PaB manner of thinking upon the subject, also allowing that the different approaches needn't conflict.
    Eliza Madrigal: Detached can mean full joy though? Clearly coming "anew" to each experience?
    Adelene Dawner questions the accuracy of 'purifying' in that context - implies the sensations are impure.
    buddha Nirvana: purify in the context that we are unpure beacuse we are full of sensations, not empty
    Pema Pera: If we mistakenly view a tree in the dark for a person, and then we realize we are wrong, are we purifying or are we perhaps just learning to see better? What looks like purifying in one direction, may not look that way when looking back afterwards
    Pema Pera: (sorry please go ahead with the other threads first)
    buddha Nirvana: sure pema
    buddha Nirvana: if we develop detachment, observe, welearn to observe reality as it is
    Pema Pera: I very much appreciate and deeply respect the way of purification, but I am also interested in alternatives
    buddha Nirvana: me too
    Pema Pera: and Play as Being takes a somewhat different approach
    Adelene Dawner hmms.
    Adelene Dawner: An analogy presents itself.
    What is it?! (I wondered, waiting.)
    Pema Pera: in which impurities are not seen as impurities
    Pema Pera: but pure and impure is seen as equally part of Being
    Pema Pera: and no need to remove anything
    buddha Nirvana: personaly i dont like the term impure
    Pema Pera: -- but the two approaches don't need to conflict
    Myna Maven: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it is that the terminology seems to imply judgement, in a negative sense. Yes , terms.
    Pema Pera: there is room for both, and it depends on temperament and many other factors
    Pema Pera: and the can even be combined
    Pema Pera: *they
    Adelene Dawner: It seems to me like what you're talking about is roughly equivalent to clearing your web browser cache, so you make sure to get the most updated versions of web pages... useful, very useful in certain contexts - but there's a reason for that cache, too. It's just that using it or not using it are useful in different ways.
    Ah! There's the analogy!  And many thought it was inventive (including myself) and voiced approval.
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, good.
    Myna Maven: Interesting, Adelene.
    buddha Nirvana: nice analogy
    Pema Pera: combing hair instead of surgery?
    buddha Nirvana: :) perhaps surgery wasnt the bext comparison
    buddha Nirvana: although that is how they refered to it at the retreat
    buddha Nirvana: it felt pretty painful after though
    Pema Pera: well, I think there is a context in which it is a good expression, Buddha, but there are various valid ways of looking at these explorations
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Pema Pera: oh yes, I can see that!
    Pema Pera: so a good phenomenological description :)
    buddha Nirvana: not that i reacted to the pain :
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    buddha Nirvana: i'd say so
    Pema Pera: Play as Being is more playful . . . and it will be very interesting to see how far we can get without much pain . . . the jury is still out, as Stim would say :>)
    buddha Nirvana: I must go , i would stay but i dont have any eyes left
    We were now long, long into the meeting.  Buddha needing to leave, all bid goodbye.  And Stevenaia Michinaga came on the scene.
    Adelene Dawner: I think the description can be useful, even though it's not accurate. Surgery implies that it's a big deal, and it *is* important to be prepared for that reality - 'clearing your cache' doesn't capture the magnitude.
    Eliza Madrigal: Night, Budda. Sleep well
    buddha Nirvana: Ty, nite all :)
    Myna Maven: Bye, Buddha. Thanks for the discussion.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: g
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Buddha :)
    Pema Pera: /bye Buddha, thanks for joining us!
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night buddha
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: g'night, Buddha
    Stim Morane: Bye, Buddha!
    buddha Nirvana: its been good, as alywas, sleep well all
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd share my trajectory, but I'm not very linear...maybe another time. :)
    Pema Pera: any time, Eliza!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Heya Steve
    Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves
    Myna Maven: Hi Steve.
    Stim Morane: Hi Stevenaia
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Stim
    stevenaia Michinaga: Eliza
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Steve ^.^
    Stim left.  And Steve related his "pinball" manner of having arrived at PaB. 
    Stim Morane: I'm getting tired, so it's time to go. Thanks, everyone!
    Myna Maven: steve, one of the primary points of discussion has been this: "[19:22] Pema Pera:Bye, Stim.
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Stim
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Stim. ^.^
    Eliza Madrigal: Night, Stim
    Stim Morane: Bye, everyone!
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim
    Myna Maven: [19:22] Pema Pera: We were talking about what kind of experiences started us off on the trajectories that eventually led to meeting here in PaB; Adelene and I volunteered to say something, and now we're still waiting for the others :-)
    Pema Pera: Bye Stim!
    Pema Pera: lol, Myna "Bye Stim" as one of the primary points!
    stevenaia Michinaga: trajectories?... hmm
    Myna Maven: Yes. :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Myna Maven: Yeah, well...
    stevenaia Michinaga: relationship trajectory
    stevenaia Michinaga: I meet Pema, via a friend, pema met friend, pema met me , Pema invited me here, series of personal connections
    stevenaia Michinaga: the pin ball metaphor
    Raybrad Bury arrived.  He was new and Corvi remembered to ask him if it was all right to record him, which I'd completely forgotten to inquire, because I forgot to inquire and because I was involved in thinking what a quick wit that was to come up with "Raybrad" for a first name companion to SL's supplied last name option of "Bury".  Ray asked for a succinct description of what PaB was about and was supplied that by Pema.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Ray
    Pema Pera: Hi Ray
    Raybrad Bury: Hello everybody
    Myna Maven: Hello, Ray.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi
    Raybrad Bury: and sorry Adelene for stepping on your head
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Ray's a friend of mine..i'll share the details.
    Pema Pera: Hi friend of friend!
    Myna Maven: Ray, do you need a PaB notecard?
    Adelene Dawner chuckles. "No worries."
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Ray the stuff we say here is posted to a public wiki..do you mind if we post what you say there?
    Pema Pera seeing Steve's pinball in action while we speak :)
    Raybrad Bury: no I don't. I'll remember not to say compromising things
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Myna Maven: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Raybrad Bury: an I have no idea what PaB informations are
    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure if there is ever a direct way to get anywhere
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I got it..don't worry.
    Raybrad Bury: noway I read all that - too long
    Raybrad Bury: can you sumarize in one sentence ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Comforting...that's what I was thinking when looking for a timeline of some sort, Stevenaia
    Adelene Dawner: '42' ^.-
    Eliza Madrigal: Ha
    Raybrad Bury: ok, that I understand :)
    Adelene Dawner giggles.
    Reference to "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"?  I should have asked!
    Pema Pera: I one sentence: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- We record our conversations there
    Myna Maven: (I'm sorry. I'm distracted here. My son is calling me. brb)
    Raybrad Bury: thank you Pema
    Pema Pera: another sentence: we try to drop what we have to see what we are
    Pema Pera: shorter: don't do, just be
    stevenaia Michinaga: so I view a path as touching as much along to the way to get what you need to get to the next place
    Scathach Rhiadra: I like that one:)
    Pema Pera: or do-be-do-be-do, if you like to have your cake and eat it
    Myna Maven: (Back.)
    Raybrad Bury: (Welcome back..)
    Eliza Madrigal now related what had been happening in her life when she came to PaB.  This opened the floor to a discussion of PaB's alternative to philosophical argument and its various attractions.
    Eliza Madrigal: Now that I think of it, this place seemed to open up to me right as I was enjoying a bit of philosophy discussions elsewhere , but feeling that often just arguments for the sake of arguing...not with any intention
    Pema Pera: yes, we try to focus on what we can actually experience . . . .
    stevenaia Michinaga: is there much learning in arguments?
    Pema Pera: and appreciate
    Eliza Madrigal: Appreciating is key for me...try to value time and people
    Pema Pera: once sentence we sometimes work with here in Play as Being is: "appreciate the presence of appearance"
    Pema Pera: no need to judge what appears, just appreciate the presence of it
    Pema Pera: no need to analyze, worry, hope
    Pema Pera: just focus on the fact that what appears is present
    Pema Pera: quite a powerful kind of practice
    Pema Pera: (and fun too :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: better than arguing
    Myna Maven: It is a quite powerful kind of practice, I agree.
    Eliza Madrigal: Approaching moment to moment, if I'm understanding
    Myna Maven: Like, Eliza, I appreciated the tenor and approach here.
    Pema Pera: with appearance I mean simply all that pops up in awareness, from sense impressions to thoughts, feelings, memories, fantasies, anything
    Pema Pera: yes, Eliza
    Myna Maven: Right.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: Here is a favorite and very radical way of doing this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilopa#...ords_of_Advice
    Pema Pera: one of my favorite ones, I mean
    stevenaia Michinaga: I enjoy that there is appreciation and learning from other's words here
    Pema Pera: quite the opposite of working with impurities :)
    Pema Pera: yes, that too, Steve
    Myna Maven: Balance.
    Eliza Madrigal: Terms can get in the way...but I do appreciate the concept of being very disciplined and precise in practices at certain times
    Adelene Dawner: There's an interesting point in there, but it's maybe getting kind of late...
    Adelene Dawner: But...
    Adelene Dawner: We're so quick to jump on labeling things as 'bad' as not being useful, but what about labeling things as 'good'?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes...is a judgement too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for the site Pema...
    Pema Pera: Yes, Eliza, discipline can be wornderful, and I would never want to argue against that, but play can also be very healing and opening
    Eliza Madrigal: Absolutely :)
    Pema Pera: so both have their role and play -- balance, yes!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and attract some of us who would never stand for work.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Myna Maven: And attract some of us who have a tendency to get too serious.
    Myna Maven: Like me. :)
    Pema Pera: ultimately there may be no good or bad, but in practice we do seem to live in a world in which these terms at least have some practical value
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) It is actually work for me to play sometimes, ye s Myna
    Pema Pera: lol, Corvi!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Myna.
    Pema Pera: lol, Myna!
    Now was time for Pema to leave.
    Pema Pera: well, time to get some sleep for me
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Pem ^.^
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been through so many paradigm shifts in my life, that it is easy to find v alue in most outlooks :)
    Myna Maven: Good night, Pema, thanks.
    Pema Pera: another meeting with great conversations, thank you all !
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Thanks Pema. night
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Pema:)
    Myna Maven: Smiles at Eliza.
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Pema
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: 'night Pema.
    Pema Pera: see you all soon again!
    Myna Maven: Persistence of vision.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Now time for Scathach to leave.
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, good night all:0
    Myna Maven: (I mean that Perma was offline but his avatar remaining so long.)
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Sca :)
    Myna Maven: G'night Scath.
    Eliza Madrigal: Night.
    stevenaia Michinaga: Night Scathach
    Eliza Madrigal: I should be tired...think the conversation woke me
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: g'night scath
    stevenaia Michinaga: Pema is such a good facilitator
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm ^.^
    Myna Maven: He is, really.
    Eliza Madrigal: PaB is another language
    Eliza Madrigal: I start to say something but then I think "what does that mean in PaB context?" Just an observation-normal I'm sure
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^

    I sat there thinking on what Eliza had said and how language molds the mind and vice versa but wasn't sure it could be fruitfully woven into the conversation so said nothing.  

    Then it was time for Eliza to leave.  And we weren't quite done yet but were almost.

    Eliza Madrigal: Very nice to have spent the evening with you. Thanks
    Myna Maven: Eliza, thanks.
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sleep well all :)
    Myna Maven: You too.
    stevenaia Michinaga: night eliza
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: leaving, Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, just ooking for a closer seat
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Adelene Dawner: Steve!
    Myna Maven: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: loke in the movie, Ghost
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yet another person to sit on my lap.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you're the heaviest.
    Adelene Dawner giggles.
    Adelene Dawner: Quad-lion-me probably beats him, actually.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: even the lions don't usually put all their weight on the lap.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: naw..I only get part of the lion.
    Adelene Dawner: *giggle*

    Then someone appeared who hadn't been to PaB before, but things were now totally wound out and that person was welcomed to join but it was mentioned how it was all wound down and the individual didn't respond and didn't seem likely to respond.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello ____.
    Adelene Dawner: Hi there, ____.
    Myna Maven: Oh, I see.
    Myna Maven: Hello, _____.
    Myna Maven: Have you been by PaB before?
    Myna Maven: We are recording discussion here. You are welcome to join us.
    Adelene Dawner: We do seem to be winding down, tho.
    Myna Maven: That's true.
    Myna Maven: I know I need to be getting.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire sighs..me too.
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Myna
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It's really well past bedtime for me.
    Adelene Dawner: I should go code.
    stevenaia Michinaga: and COrvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: g'night all.
    Myna Maven: G'night Corvi.
    Adelene Dawner: (probably won't, if there are still people here, but should ^.^)
    Myna Maven: G'night Steve.
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, tho, CorviCorvi and Myna.
    Myna Maven: G'night Adelene.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: G'night Adelene.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: see ya monday.
    Adelene Dawner: Yep. ^.^
    Myna Maven: I've claimed the chat. I was going to go ahead and cut off the recording but I don't see where to do that.
    Raybrad Bury: you mean... that will record and publish all the conversations over the week end ? :)
    Adelene Dawner: it's in the menu, lower left, 'Stop' - but it'll also do it automatically.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no..it stops between.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and...we have to publish them.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but..it makes 'clean' recordings.
    Raybrad Bury: does it have a spell checker ?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nope
    Myna Maven: Right. That's why I was trying to go ahead and stop it. So I could go publish it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: just doesn't get all the 'messages' that we get

    And that was that.  At least for me.  We talked about what a great job the programmers had done with the pavillion and its workings and then I left. 

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