2009.03.08 07:00 - Time and the Bottle and Wildflowers

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

    I sat for a little while before being joined by Wol. I sat thinking of the past few days and how some tings have been falling in place for me. Then Wol arrived:
    Adams Rubble: Hello Wol :)
    Wol Euler: hello adams
    Adams Rubble: Happy American daylight savings time
    Wol Euler: nice outfit! matches your hair.
    Wol Euler: oh yes. heh.
    Adams Rubble: thanks :)
    Adams Rubble: You look very nice this morning :)
    Wol Euler: thank you :) a favourite outfit and some new hair.
    Adams Rubble: Old hair, different color, old outfit too, a bit stripped down :)
    Adams Rubble: less is better
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Wol Euler grins
    Wol Euler: Write that down.
    Adams Rubble: dropped some of the frills
    Adams Rubble: I am going through one of those agitated times again
    Wol Euler: oh dear. Can you talk OR about what's happening?
    As often happens I chat away before reading Wol's question
    Adams Rubble: Are they swords on your arms?
    Wol Euler: yep :)
    Adams Rubble: Oh yes. Please don't stab me
    Wol Euler: naah
    Wol Euler: gentle as a lamb, I am.
    Adams Rubble: Yes, I know :)
    Wol Euler: unless you are a noob who needs to be expelled and banned
    Now I get around to trying to answer. I start with what my identities are doing which is a bit like stalling except it has been a part of the story this week. I have learned to isolate them but I still usually rein them in when they start to get too needy.
    Adams Rubble: How to start :)
    Adams Rubble: You know I get an edge when I stay with this avatar
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Adams Rubble: but I start to get a bit silly too
    Adams Rubble: in the past I have looked for some balance
    Adams Rubble: but for various reasons I stayed with it this week and seem to be getting some payoff
    Adams Rubble: but it is hard to put in words
    From needy identities to the big stuff
    Adams Rubble: I almost think I had a sense of what Being is yesterday
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Adams Rubble: but I can't say it
    Adams Rubble: but it connects one with everything
    Wol Euler nods. that sounds about right.
    Wol Euler: and not being able to express it in words also seems to fit.
    Adams Rubble: I drew a diagram that I haven't digitized yet
    Later Pema was to make my diagram obsolete. Still I hope to post it as my understanding of things yesterday
    Adams Rubble: in it I had a present man and woman holding hands with past and future people
    Adams Rubble: human beings
    Adams Rubble: that is the timelessness
    Adams Rubble: in open space...no boundaries
    Wol Euler nods
    Adams Rubble: For me it is a big step
    Adams Rubble: Stim's comment about presence being ion the context of timelessness has been the key for me
    Stim made this comment at the dialog last Monday, March 2 at 13:00 (not posted when I wroe this)
    Adams Rubble talks alot :)
    Wol Euler listens and ponders
    Adams Rubble: I have been applying timlessness to everything I can :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Adams Rubble: even my avatar :)
    Wol Euler: indeed? How does that work?
    Adams Rubble: Well it says things about ones RL avatar for one
    Adams Rubble: But something else
    Adams Rubble: for me it is a bit like astronomers looking at stars
    Scath joins us
    Adams Rubble: Hi Scath
    Wol Euler: hello scath
    Adams Rubble: The astronomers look at the star from two different places on earth
    Adams Rubble: triangulation
    Adams Rubble: In a way, I am looking at the world a bit like that
    Adams Rubble: from two different perspectives
    Adams Rubble: very loose analogy
    Adams Rubble: but it comes from thhinking in the context of timelessness
    Adams Rubble: Scath, sorry to keep talking
    Scathach Rhiadra: np:)
    Adams Rubble: I was explaining to Wol some of the things that have been happening to me the past few days
    Wol Euler thwaps Adams with a cushion. Stop apologising.
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Wol Euler: :)
    Adams Rubble: I inherited that from my mohter :)
    Adams Rubble: mother
    Wol Euler: so it's an heirloom to be treasured and enjoyed.
    Wol Euler: go with it.
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/..._am_made_of%22 (Saturday Morning Discussion)
    Wol Euler: scath, I read the log from saturday morning, when you were talking with Udge about timelessness.
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm
    Adams Rubble: Scath. I have been thinking much about Stim's comment about presence being seen in the context of timelessness
    Adams Rubble: Oh my
    Adams Rubble listens
    Wol Euler: could you expand on that a little, please?
    Wol Euler: (adams about Stim)
    I missed Wol's question. It might be best to read Monday's log
    Adams Rubble: Sorry I haven;t read that
    Adams Rubble: (hehe)
    Adams Rubble: but I will
    Adams Rubble: I should further explain I have been applying timelessness to everyting
    Wol Euler: you started by saying that you were going through agitated times. Is that related to applying timelessness?
    Adams Rubble: Scath or me?
    Wol Euler: adams
    Scathach Rhiadra listens
    Adams Rubble: No that is related to other things
    Wol Euler: ah, ok.
    Adams Rubble: There is more there. I did take notice that my ddreams have been very agitated the past few nights
    Adams Rubble: but I haven't remembered any dreams yet
    Adams Rubble: No, the agitation is giving some drive, some energy
    Adams Rubble: Words do get very hard here :)
    Wol Euler nods
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Wol Euler: Narrow it down perhaps, say what it isn't.
    Adams Rubble: One problem is I am not sure we are talking about agitation or my thinking about Being :)
    Wol Euler: whichever is most helpful :)
    Adams Rubble: Let's forget the agitation :)
    Wol Euler: ok
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Adams Rubble: Unless I start babbling silliness
    Adams Rubble: which may happen
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Wol Euler holds a cushion ready.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Looking at things in the context of timelessness
    Wol Euler: I'm thinking about "applying timelessness to everything", Adams, and wondering how that works.
    Adams Rubble: I am looking back. I should send Scath what I erarlier said about Being
    Adams Rubble: Ooooh. It's quite interwoven
    Wol Euler: let me send her a notecard then, while you continue to explain.
    Adams Rubble: I have had a hard time with Being because I equated it too much with God I think
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)
    Pema Pera: Hi Wol, Adams, Scathach
    Adams Rubble: Hi Pema :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello pema
    Adams Rubble fumbling for words again
    Adams Rubble: Oh thanks Wol
    Wol Euler: hello pema
    Adams Rubble takes a breather :)
    Pema arrives and helps frame the conversation
    Pema Pera: I just read your blog, Adams, yesterday morning's entry -- so glad to see these things becoming clearer to you! It really is a kind of organic growth, isn't it
    Adams Rubble: yes, hard to explain though
    Pema Pera: Being as not a thing, keeping identities but not overly identifying, so easy to say the words but it takes time to "see" what that all means . . . .
    Scathach Rhiadra: ty Wol
    Adams Rubble: yes, I realized that I have been thinking thingness by equating Being with my idea of God
    Pema Pera: but you the more glimpses you get, the easier it is to recognize how someone else is fumbling for words :)
    Adams Rubble: abstract thingness
    Pema Pera: and communication then becomes possible
    Adams Rubble: but I am seeing Being more as a connection...more than a connection...but a connection nevertheless
    Pema Pera: yes, all is Being
    Pema Pera: we can say that every day to ourselves
    Pema Pera: and everyday it becomes a bit more clear
    Pema Pera: we grow up
    Pema Pera: a child cannot comprehend the care and love of a parent
    Pema Pera: but the more we grow up the more we comprehend
    Pema Pera: we are all growing up together in comprehending Being
    Pema Pera: our Parent
    Pema Pera: but the odd thing is, at the same time we also *are* Being
    Pema Pera: like a Moebius strip or Klein bottle, to use a few metaphors
    Adams Rubble doesn;t know what they are
    Pema Pera: depending on what we identify with, we are both parent and child
    Pema Pera: we have that freedom
    Pema Pera: what we really *are* is Being
    Adams Rubble: yes our child and parent identities
    Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%...bius_strip.jpg
    Playing Roles
    Pema Pera: what we can play as roles (roles that we have) is limitless
    Wol Euler: http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/spc/ugA...ein_bottle.jpg
    Adams Rubble: The role playing is so helpful
    Adams Rubble: see from different points...like triangulation
    Wol Euler nods
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: changing clothes prevents you from identifying one set as a kind of skin
    Pema Pera should be changing clothes in SL more often . . . if he only had time to go shopping . . . one day!
    Wol Euler grins. I'd be glad to take you out, Pema
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: Wol, if you find a shop with good T shirts, I'm game!
    Pema Pera: no big lettering, only images
    Wol Euler: we can get Solo to come along, he's one of the best-dressed males in SL
    Pema Pera: like the one I'm wearing
    Wol Euler: bound to have some good tips
    Pema Pera: let's do that!
    Adams Rubble was thinking of more radical changes :)
    Wol Euler: shhhhh :)
    Pema Pera: much as I like my scarab, it's time to descarab
    Pema Pera: hehehe, Adams
    Wol Euler: we'll sneak up on him with a new look
    Scathach Rhiadra: ha:)
    Pema Pera: anticipation rises . .. .
    Pema Pera quickly saving his current avatar look, just to be on the safe side
    Wol Euler grins
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Over the summer Pema talked about fourth time and I could not comprehend that at all then, so I ask....
    Adams Rubble: Is timlessness the same as fourth time?
    Wol Euler: I think of 1,2,3 as a line with now inthe middle, and timelessness as the page on which that line is drawn
    Scathach Rhiadra never heard of fourth time
    Wol Euler: in other words, a second dimension crossing but including hte line
    Pema Pera: yes, Adams, close enough at least!
    Pema Pera: I also like to call it zeroth time
    Pema Pera: or the eternal now
    Adams Rubble: Scath, Pema has talked of fourth time
    Pema Pera: yes, Wol, nice picture too
    Adams Rubble: thank you Pema
    Adams Rubble: and Wol
    Scathach asks about the fourth dimension as Moon arrives
    Scathach Rhiadra: the fourth dimension?
    Pema Pera: not necessarily that
    Pema Pera: in physics we sometimes think about space as having three dimensions with time the fourth dimension
    Adams Rubble: Hello Moon :)
    Moon Fargis: greetings
    Wol Euler: hello moon
    Pema Pera: but that makes a spatial presentation of time
    Pema Pera: that is still linear PPF time
    Pema Pera: past present future
    Pema Pera: Hi Moon!
    Moon Fargis: (just wear pema)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, PPF and 'now'?
    Wol Euler: as I understood it, rather PPF and the timeless all-of-it
    Pema Pera: the now is the middle P of PPf in a narrow sense, the second of the three times we normally deal with
    Pema Pera: the "eternal now" is different, a kind of now but more open
    Pema Pera: so I like to call it zeroth time
    Wol Euler: God's time, if you will, where our distinctions of present and future are as inconsequential as a single atom in the handle of a teacup to us
    Pema Pera: the time that presents itself before you start divvying it up in PPF
    Pema Pera: hence zero seems better than fourth
    Adams Rubble thinks of the things that do not change in time that relate to all time
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Pema Pera: yes, Wol !
    Adams Rubble: yes Wol
    Something new for me...beyond change and constancy
    Pema Pera: the zeroth time is beyond change and constancy
    Pema Pera: it is not changeless
    Pema Pera: not stiff or frozen or static by any means
    Adams Rubble nods
    Pema Pera: the notion of "change" is based on something that is normally constant and that then changes -- now that kind of base is already totally absent in ZT (Zeroth Time)
    Pema Pera: in ZT there are no things and they certainly cannot even change
    Adams Rubble's head explodes
    Wol Euler grins
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Wol Euler: actually I find this much easier today than last week when you were talking with Stim about it
    Adams Rubble nods
    Scathach Rhiadra: like I think of the timeless'now' not as the P in PPF, maybe different words...
    Pema Pera: We are all learning to find new words, Wol, together -- and also while chewing on the same words, the taste penetrates more
    Adams Rubble: applying timelessness even without fully graasping it seems helpful
    Adams Rubble: the context of timelessness
    Pema Pera: like the more you sip different wines, the more you become a connesseur :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Wol Euler: mhmm
    Present and "normal present" (sounding a bit like Latin grammar lesson)
    Pema Pera: yes, Scathach, you can use the word "present" as the "timeless now" but then you have to find another word for the "normal present" that most people consider themselves to live in
    Pema Pera: as part of the past - normal present - future time line that they imagine to live in . . .
    Pema Pera: P-NP-F ?
    Pema Pera: and P=TN for timeless now
    Pema Pera: quick proliferation of terms :)
    Moon Fargis: P-TNT
    Wol Euler: an explosive concept
    We had been surrounded by beautiful tall wildflowers for much of the session and now found out why
    Pema Pera: btw, Moon, I am wearing your portable garden, as you asked me to do, but for me it is still just a grey donut around us . . . .
    Pema Pera: hahaha, Wol !
    Pema Pera: and Moon!
    Moon Fargis: oh then itsn ot rezzed yet
    Moon Fargis: slow network ?
    Pema Pera: what does it look like to you?
    Adams Rubble enjoying the grassy field behind us
    Wol Euler: flowers, weeds
    Moon Fargis: a grass field :)
    Adams Rubble: with wild flowers
    Wol Euler: heh
    Pema Pera: from wild Moon
    Adams Rubble: weeds?
    Wol Euler thinks of blind men and elephants
    Moon Fargis: ˙·•| miaaauuuu |•·˙
    Adams Rubble: Storm will be busy mowing for aa long time
    Doug arrived
    Adams Rubble: Hello Doug :)
    Pema Pera: haha
    Pema Pera: Hi Doug!
    Moon Fargis: ../../../@api/deki/files/94/=Snapshot_002.png
    Wol Euler: I thought of them as wildflowers growing in a planted field, Adams, going back to my childhood. In that context they would be weeds, yes.
    Adams Rubble: weeds by any other name would be just as prolific
    Pema Pera: Thanks for the notecard of the earlier conversation, Adams! I'm intrigued by [7:35] Wol Euler: I'm thinking about "applying timelessness to everything", Adams, and wondering how that works.
    Wol Euler: :)
    doug Sosa: morning.
    Wol Euler: hello doug
    Moon Fargis: hi doug
    Pema Pera: good seeing you again, Doug

    doug Sosa: been a while. time has been segmented.
    Pema Pera: welcome to this segment, Doug :)
    Pema Pera: how do you do that, Adams, "applying timelessness to everything"?
    doug Sosa: I find the wild floweres beautiful.
    Pema Pera: Moon can give them to you, Doug!
    Adams Rubble: It is just a matter of the way of looking at things for me...the context
    Pema Pera: what happens when you do, can you try to describe?
    Adams Rubble: It makes me see it differently
    Pema Pera: in what way?
    Adams Rubble: Well I describe the ocean in my blog
    Adams Rubble: Mainly it lifts me out of my self or identities
    Pema Pera: yes, that is a very nice connection with great space
    Adams Rubble: see the connections
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: yes, connection probably is the word
    Watching Change and a New Suggestion for me
    Pema Pera: may I suggest you to watch "change" for a few days, Adams?
    Pema Pera: using "change" as a handle to try and see the world, all that presents itself, as being beyond both change and constancy?
    Pema Pera: the world is not static, for sure
    Pema Pera: but to say the world changes implies that there are little mostly-static things that then start changing a little here and there
    Pema Pera: can you look at the world in a more radical way
    Pema Pera: without even the possibility for "change"
    Pema Pera: taking the bottom out
    Pema Pera: the ground or the carpet, pulling the carpet out from under "change"
    Pema Pera: staying only with the arising of what appears
    Pema Pera: in the eternal now?
    Pema Pera impersonating Adams: sorry, I talk too much :-)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    doug Sosa: a change!
    Pema Pera: three days, okay?
    Adams Rubble looking for a more radical avatar for help
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: no need to "change" avatar, Adams, hehe
    Pema Pera: just drop "change"
    Wol Euler: all your future avs are already present in you, unexpressed.
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Pema Pera: :)
    Adams Rubble: Your assignments get harder and harder Pema :)
    Pema Pera: you're asking for it, Adams :)
    Pema Pera: (actually they're getting beyond easy or hard, they are now impossible :-)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    doug Sosa: so, i get up in the orning, eat breakfast do a little tai chi.. etc. to see this as "no change".
    doug Sosa: ?
    Pema Pera: anything you do or see, Doug -- and not constancy either -- beyond both change and no change
    doug Sosa: ah.
    Pema Pera: not "no change" and not "change" something more radical than "change" -- something totally new and complete in each moment
    Adams Rubble: What part of Winter into Spring is beyond change or conastancy?
    Pema Pera: "change" is too static still
    Pema Pera: As Dogen said: winter does not change into spring
    Pema Pera: winter is winter and spring is spring
    Adams Rubble notices it makes it easier of one mispells one of the words
    Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogen
    doug Sosa: "constantly changing while being the same.. Notice that at no moment is it either just spring or just winter."?
    doug Sosa: either should be neither..
    Pema Pera: not the same, not changing, but freshly arising in each moment
    Pema Pera: completely dropping the constant-change dichotomy language
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Pema Pera: hence complete freedom
    Adams Rubble: so....
    Adams Rubble: I look at change while dropping the language to describe it
    As I think about my assignment, Wol presses onward...
    Wol Euler: I have difficulty applying this concept of timelessness to "real life" though.
    Wol Euler: because real change in the state of real objects seems to surround me.
    Pema Pera: seems to
    Pema Pera: that is key
    Wol Euler: I can grant you that the bush with flowers today is the same one that had none yesterday
    Pema Pera: how to look through that?
    Wol Euler: but this seems to apply badly to non-natural objects.
    Pema Pera: not the same, Wol
    Pema Pera: nothing is ever the same . . . .
    Pema Pera: that's our laziness
    Pema Pera: our tendency for "bleeding on" from moment to moment, as Stim puts it
    Moon Fargis: hmm there are no flowers
    Wol Euler: that seems to me a useful tendency though.
    Pema Pera: useful once we realize how to do it for practical purposes, very very bad if it becomes an addiction, and we don't know any other way
    Wol Euler nods. Udge was saying something similar to Scath yesterday morning, about being attached to the "applicability" of concepts
    Moon Fargis: pema du you see the flowers now ?
    Pema Pera: still now, sad to say . . .
    Adams Rubble: Like many of the expercises we have had, even doing them badly is sueful
    Adams Rubble: useful not sueful
    Pema Pera: yes, very much so
    Moon Fargis: so you dont see them as wol see them so
    Moon Fargis: but still youre looking at the same object
    Pema Pera: sue your self, Adams, and see whether you become selfless :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Moon Fargis: and it is different for you both then
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Adams Rubble: Does PaB have insureance?
    Pema Pera: not the same object, Moon :)
    Pema Pera: but we can both point to it, yes
    Pema Pera: insureance . . . .
    Pema Pera: surveillance . . .
    Adams Rubble: insurance
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Moon Fargis: well thats what i wanted to point to ^^ we all look at basicly the same object but really we are looking at 6 other objects
    Wol Euler: I disagree about them being different objects.
    Moon Fargis: becasue we create the description of those object in our mind
    Moon Fargis: see other colours other shapes
    Pema Pera: in normal parlance we can call them "the same object", sure
    Wol Euler: but there _is_ an object
    Pema Pera: that is then an abstraction
    Pema Pera: what we experience *concretely* is different
    Wol Euler: if the "your car" object that I see is not the same object as the "my car" object that you see,
    Pema Pera: but yes, we can share an abstraction
    Adams Rubble: but there is no object, just an appearance
    Wol Euler: then why do you think "my car" is missing when I steal "your car"?
    Pema Pera: hahaha, Wol
    Pema Pera: the abstractions help here
    Pema Pera: there is a category of experiences that I label as "my car" and not "your car"
    Pema Pera: but the category is abstract
    Pema Pera: only what arises in each moment is really concrete
    Pema Pera: and this is not trying to play with words
    Pema Pera: it can help you to focus on recognizing "arising" as the *only* concrete thing ever in your life!
    Pema Pera: I hope I didn't steal your thunder while you were busy stealing my car, Wol :)
    Wol Euler laughs
    Pema Pera: we live an impoverished life, we live in a world of abstractions . . . upside down, confusing what is abstract and concrete . . . we got it all wrong!
    Pema Pera: that's why we're so hungry, thirsthy, needy . . . abstractions don't fill us, don't fulfill
    Moon Fargis: the problem is.. aslong we are searching for the right we get it wrong
    Corvi teleports in and then makes her way through the tall flowers
    Adams Rubble: Hi Corvi :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Corvi
    Moon Fargis: hi corvi :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Corvi
    Wol Euler: right, which says to me that things do exist and the time in which they exist also exists.
    Wol Euler: hello corvi
    Adams Rubble: Fun seeing Corvi come through the flowers
    Pema Pera: yes, Moon, we have to see, but searching seems to be a way to learn to see . . . not searching doesn't seem to work either
    Pema Pera: existence is an abstraction Wol !!!!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi. *sings* There's a bad moon rising on the left.....
    Pema Pera: an addition
    Moon Fargis: haha
    Pema Pera: like leaded gasoline
    Pema Pera: very unhealthy
    Moon Fargis: nooo whyyy
    Moon Fargis: not bad
    Moon Fargis: nono
    Pema Pera: (to Wol)
    The Milk Bottle Affair
    Wol Euler: if I drop a milk bottle and it shatters, can you pour milk fro it into your coffee?
    Adams Rubble: ?
    Moon Fargis: wol, sure
    Pema Pera: no, Wol, but why?
    Wol Euler: (I'm not channeling Sam, I really am trying to understand)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: if I see a movie with a bottle breaking, dus that mean the bottle really exists?
    Pema Pera: yes, Wol, thank you, this is fun!
    Wol Euler: no but I don't think that it does.
    Pema Pera: and helpful, at least for me
    Wol Euler: I do think htat the bottle that used to be in my fridge, used to contain milk
    Pema Pera: that's the problem, nothing exists . . . .
    Pema Pera: there is the arising of the appearance of fridge and bottle and Wol all together . . . .
    Pema Pera: that's all
    Pema Pera: the rest is addition
    Pema Pera: and addiction
    Pema Pera: very unhealthy
    Wol Euler: that suggests to me that it is only arising for me, in my perception
    Pema Pera: your sense of you is *also* arising
    Wol Euler: why then can you not pour milk from the bottle that I broke?
    Pema Pera: part of the package!
    Pema Pera: there is no you, no milk, no bottle
    Wol Euler: surely in your perception it need not have broken
    Pema Pera: no past in which you broke it
    Pema Pera: but there IS the presence of the appearance of all that
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: i think the point is here that the package includes all ofus.
    Pema Pera: yes!!!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that we are one pattern.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and one arising of appearance.
    Pema Pera: yes, more than unified -- already one whole
    Pema Pera: arising is unitary
    Wol Euler struggles valiantly to grasp this.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so Pema...Wol...me...there is one "reality" and a few "realities" within it...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but then...again...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: there is reality?
    Scathach Rhiadra: is the question Wol, not rather whether you can perceive Pema pouring milk from the bottle which you remember breaking?
    Pema Pera: perhaps Adams' challenge may help, Wol, three days without change :-)
    Pema Pera: there is only the presence of appearance, Corvi
    Pema Pera: everything else are abstractions built on top of that
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: well it appears to me the bottle is roken
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it appears to Wol the bottle is broken
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it appears to me i'm eating my cereal dry.
    Pema Pera: (meta remark: I feel we are really getting deeper into things now, this is all very encouraging, and I'm learning to see all this more clearly while we speak)
    Moon Fargis: hehe
    Scathach Rhiadra: but the memory of it breaking is in the 'now'
    Pema Pera: yes it all appears, Corvi :)
    Moon Fargis: so now just think:
    Wol Euler: in which time is the "fact" (call it that) that I have no bottle and no milk?
    Moon Fargis: yu learned you have the do this to get the milk out of the bottle all your life
    Pema Pera: yes, Scathach, the memory is part of the package
    Moon Fargis: then the bottle is not brken
    Moon Fargis: its open
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it appears to me there is a story...bottle broke...before....i eat my cereal now....dry.
    Pema Pera: Wol, the problem is one of context: a bottle in a movie is made of glass (within the story of the movie, an abstraction on top of the light) or light (when you look more concretely) -- both are true
    Pema Pera: but "light" is the more fundamental one
    Scathach Rhiadra: and the relatedness otf the memory and the current perception of the broken bottle, so to speak, give us a sense of 'time'
    Pema Pera: the other is an interesting illusion
    Wol Euler: granted, both are OK so far.
    Pema Pera: yes, Scathach
    Wol Euler nods. I am definitely hung up on "applicability".
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: i wish you hadn't broken that bottle, Wol.
    Scathach Rhiadra nods:)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'd like some milk on my cereal.
    Moon starts playing with the metaphor
    Moon Fargis: i wish you hadn't opend it that way :)
    Adams Rubble agrees with Corvi
    Wol Euler: My experience and memory and perceptionand belief tell me that a broken cup remains broken
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
    Adams Rubble: and Moon
    Wol Euler: and that I cannot drink from it before I buy it, either.
    Moon Fargis: hmm cats would drink of it
    Wol Euler: but not before it breaks, moon.
    Pema Pera: when you change, Wol, the name "Wol" does not change, does not get "wollier" (or "woolier") . . . . so Wol is draped on top of you as an abstraction, a lable, a handle -- in that way, ALL OBJECTS AND THINGS in terms we think are abstractions layered on top of what arises -- and the big joke is that we call a stone "concrete" -- how preposterous!!
    Moon Fargis: or you try to catch up that milk with something and fix the bottle pices with glue
    Moon Fargis: then you can refill the catched milk again :)
    Pema Pera wouldn't drink from Moon's bottles . . .
    Wol Euler: nor I :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Moon Fargis: meep
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Wol Euler: thinks of cut lips ...
    Pema Pera: but would be willing to try moonshine, though
    Moon Fargis: hmmm this drug?
    Moon Fargis: well
    Pema Pera: for Moon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshine
    Adams Rubble hasn't understood anything since Wol broke the milk bottle
    Wol Euler: ((I really do empathise with Sam right now, by the way, I am struggling with this and getting so frustrated by it - by myself))
    Adams Rubble: Struggle is good Wol :)
    Pema Pera: that's good, Wol: the challenge is to radically jump outside the categories that we have been educated in, all our life, doesn't come easy!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
    Wol Euler: I believe that, that is why I stay with it - unlike Sam.
    Pema Pera: and you actually would be happy to have your believes tuned up :-)
    Pema Pera: beliefs
    Scathach Rhiadra nods:)
    Adams Rubble: and you don't want to change us :)
    Pema Pera: unlike Sam, as Wester pointed out so clearly
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Pema Pera: (I used "tuned up" to avoid change, you noticed it, Adams :-)
    Adams Rubble: no :)
    Pema Pera: (words are so contradictory . . . )
    Adams Rubble: I do now
    Pema Pera: (oops, gave myself away)
    Wol Euler: aha!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: i want to change us
    Pema Pera: more accurately, the point is to *drop* all beliefs
    Pema Pera: not change
    Pema Pera: not tune up
    Pema Pera: that was just an approximation
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: all the time.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: i want to dance with us till we are something different
    Adams Rubble suggests Wol be more careful pouring milk :)
    Pema Pera: Corvi, if there is no "us" your work is done already
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and something different the next day
    Pema Pera: yes, Corvi
    Adams Rubble: :) Corvi
    Pema Pera: and we are already -- just a matter of noticing it :)

     Pema Gets Ready to Leave

    Pema Pera: Well, I have to go . . .
    Pema Pera: what a great discussion!
    Pema Pera: thank you all so much
    Adams Rubble: bye Pema...we've gone a long time :)
    Moon Fargis: ok ^^ see you soon pema :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema:)
    Pema Pera: and I'm afraid I'll have to take my moonshine flowers with me . . . .
    Wol Euler: yes, thank you pema, and adams moon scath and corvi too
    Pema Pera: bfn!
    Wol Euler: wow
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Adams Rubble: wow
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Wol Euler: the meadow flashed through my camera blocking the rest of the world
    Pema Pera: I am beginning to see some flowers sticking out from the fog now
    Pema Pera: like little insights arising . . . .
    Moon Fargis: *smiles*
    Moon Fargis: i wonder how the people look where he teleportet too now
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Moon Fargis: Pema arising with a meadowfield around him in a classroom
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Wol Euler: but there is no change, so the flowers were always there.
    Moon Fargis: no i wear them :)
    Wol Euler: Nobody noticed them before, that's all.
    Wol Euler is being contentious.
    Moon delights us with more portable garden plans and he gives us each the wildflowers that we recently experienced. Some of us wear them and the plot flowers gets thicker around us
    Moon Fargis: actually i am building portable meadows and gardens
    Adams Rubble: what a neat idea
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: i really love them.
    Wol Euler: what a great idea.
    Moon Fargis: so you just sit somewhere, wear it and youre surrounded by a great garden or meadow
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, we will all want one:)
    Adams Rubble: Would be great for cities
    Wol Euler: absolutely.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: they're a little laggy though
    Moon Fargis: here is the first one :)
    Moon Fargis: well not more laggy than a good detailed bracelet attachment
    Moon Fargis: i think around 180 prims
    Wol Euler: put it back on, please?
    Moon Fargis: this one is specially for pab
    Moon Fargis: without trees ofcourse :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe. TY Moon
    Scathach Rhiadra: ty Moon:)
    Wol Euler: ty moon!
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Moon's picture.jpg
    Moon then rezzes the other meadow he is working on and we are lost for a bit
    Moon Fargis: hmm i shall try the other one here ^^
    Wol Euler: wow, 5070 points of rendering cost.
    Adams Rubble: where'd everyone go?
    Wol Euler: heh
    Adams Rubble: just name tags sticking up
    Wol Euler: good god, rocks and stones too.
    Scathach Rhiadra: heh:)
    Moon Fargis: haha jungle pab
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe then it's just laggy for me...heh...not laggy anymore!
    Wol Euler: this needs a photo for the log
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: gah..that's beautiful!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ohhhhhhhh
    Adams Rubble: I can't find us for a photo
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: i'm not moveing from here ever.
    Moon Fargis: haha
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Moooooon....this is tooo pretty.
    Moon Fargis: ^^ thanks
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it has an appearance of comfort.
    Adams Rubble brushes away a tick
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
    Moon Fargis: btw who is the guardian ?
    Adams Rubble raises hand
    Adams Rubble: ty Moon
    Wol leaves and I follow closely behind (I planned to do the log which I finally finish hours later)
    Wol Euler: sorry, my dears, I must go back to RL for a while.
    Adams Rubble: nice picture
    Moon Fargis: ah ok see you soon wol ^^
    Adams Rubble: yes, me too. It has been a fun session
    Adams Rubble: bye Wol
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Wol, see you later:)
    Wol Euler: I perceive myself to be hungry, and imagine that I can remedy this by cooking lunch
    Scathach Rhiadra: :))
    Adams Rubble: bye everyone :)
    Wol Euler: enjoy your Sundays.
    Wol Euler: bye for now
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams:)
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Adams Rubble: thanks, you too
    Moon Fargis: ^^/
    and then Scath goes...
    Scathach Rhiadra: and I must go too, bye Corvi, Moon, thank you:)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!
    Moon Fargis: bye ^^/

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    Viewing 1 of 1 comments: view all
    Originally written on 23:13, 08 Mar 2009
    Beautiful! I'm tempted to ask for the meadow to be a permanent feature - or at least a permanent temporarily rezzable feature. A lovely effect and fabulous photography! Thank you. :)
    Posted 07:13, 9 Apr 2010
    Viewing 1 of 1 comments: view all
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core