2009.03.13 13:00 - Tags, Boxes, and "my time"

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Solobill Laville. The comments are by Solobill Laville. Again, friends, RL
    craziness is shortcircuiting any chance for comments as of yet...But here is the chat!

        Solobill Laville: Good day, Wol! Wester! :)
        Wester Kiranov: hi wol, solo
        Wol Euler: oh, sorry, I was geeking :)
        Wol Euler: hello adams, solo, wester
        Solobill Laville: Hi, Adams!
        Wester Kiranov: hi adams
        Adams Rubble: Hello Bill, Woll and Wester :)
        Wol Euler: nice tag, adams :)
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Adams Rubble: Thanks Wol; it says the same thing as yours does with different words :)
        Solobill Laville: I think most people would think it means you are in a hurry.. ;)
        Wol Euler: heheheheh
        Adams Rubble: :)
        Solobill Laville: Might mean the same as mine too...
        Adams Rubble was thinking about that Bill :)
        Adams Rubble: Couldn't fit anything about timelessness in the small space
        Wol Euler nods. Group titles are too short :(
        Adams Rubble: It serves to keep people from botheiing me too :)
        Adams Rubble: hehe
        Wol Euler: :)
        Wester Kiranov: I think solos tag (and mine) are things you have to do to realize the truth of wols and adams' tag
        Adams Rubble: :)
        Solobill Laville: Interesting...
        Solobill Laville: Wol's I believe is perhaps the most fundamental of all
        Wol Euler smiles. Mine is meant quite literally, a friend made it for me as a reminder or a mantra, at a time when I needed to hear it.
        Wol Euler: I'm not sure whether it actually helps or not, but I wear it in the hope that it encourage myself.
        Solobill Laville: Heya, Fef
        Wol Euler: hello fefonz
        Adams Rubble: Hello fefonz :)
        Fefonz Quan: :) Hi Wol, Wester, Solo, Adams
        Wester Kiranov: hi fefonz
        Wester Kiranov: wol: isn't that the way it's supposed to work? by encouraging yourself?
        Wol Euler: I think that is what she had in mind, yes :)
        Solobill Laville: Has it helped as a reminder, Wol?
        Wol Euler: some days yes...
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Solobill Laville: Interesting topic came up at yesterday's meeting at this time...
        Solobill Laville: About what "stepping back" (or however it can be worded)
        Solobill Laville: allows you to "see" within yourself; how "you work", so to speak
        Fefonz Quan nods
        Adams Rubble is listening
        Solobill Laville: As an example...
        Solobill Laville: I realized of late that I was applying "my doubts" onto my wife, in public no less
        Solobill Laville: my doubts about my expertise, but anything could apply
        Solobill Laville: Point is, contemplative practice cleared the airwaves to realize that :)
        Solobill Laville: There are other examples as well...but not not being deserving, would imply something along those lines perhaps...
        Solobill Laville: Adams has shared quite a few revelations in her blog...does anyone have anything else along those lines?
        Adams Rubble nods
        Adams Rubble: Hello fael :)
        Solobill Laville: Heya, Fael :)
        Wol Euler: hello fael
        Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
        Fefonz Quan: hi Fael :)
        Wester Kiranov: hi fael
        Solobill Laville: In a very real way, I look at it as cultivating the garden of "me"...which ultimately contributes
        Solobill Laville: to diminishing the barrier between "me" and "all the rest" ;)
        Fael Illyar: it might be more comfortable to have the barrier up some though.
        Fefonz Quan: yes, comfort is a seductive agent though
        Solobill Laville: I think we're hard-wired to reinforce it all the time, yes
        Fael Illyar: Well, it's a matter of balance ... well, like everything :)
        Fael Illyar: too little, uncomfortable, too much, uncomfortable
        Fefonz Quan: :)
        Adams Rubble thinking out loud...expertise is something we have, not what we are
        Fefonz Quan: but maybe - too little, uncomfortable today, then comfort tomorrow
        Solobill Laville: I speaking more in terms of the "me-ego" as the barrier between my see and Being Seeing through me
        Adams Rubble: Yes Bill
        Fefonz Quan: So Solo you mean the seeing as being help you observe your behavior n more objuective way?
        Solobill Laville: not really, Fef
        Solobill Laville: More so that contemplative practice helps to separate out the things the we "have"
        Solobill Laville: which we think we "are"
        Solobill Laville: but are not :)
        Adams Rubble: yes!
        Fefonz Quan: i see, yes
        Fael Illyar: objective ... I'm suddenly realizing that I'm not quite sure what that means ... even having used that word for ages.
        Fefonz Quan: yeah, i knew i should be careful aith that one :)
        Fefonz Quan: i meant more for another point ov view rather than the ego-wise
        Fefonz Quan: with*
        Fael Illyar: as in, seeing what is instead of attempting to decide what is?
        Fefonz Quan: maybe "neutral" is more appropriate
        Fefonz Quan: yes, that too fael
        Fael Illyar: I've been noticing lately that expression "I can't believe my eyes" is kind of indicating tendency to want to decide what is instead of looking and accept what you see.
        Adams Rubble has no more time...must run.... bye everyone :)
        Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)(
        Solobill Laville: BYe, Adams
        Fefonz Quan: Bye adams :)
        Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.
        Wester Kiranov: bye adams
        Solobill Laville: Yes, Fael
        Fefonz Quan: sometimes fael it is said when something new and surprising appear
        Fael Illyar: Hi Tarmel :)
        Wol Euler: hello tarmel
        Fefonz Quan: and it expersses the hardness of shiftnig position to the new reality
        Solobill Laville: That reminds to of what Chiaiu said last week to, that all those comparisons are a comparison of someting past to something present
        Solobill Laville: Hi, Tarmel :)
        Fefonz Quan: Hi Tarmel :)
        Tarmel Udimo: Hey gang
        Fael Illyar: Fefonz, not new, just unveiled.
        Wester Kiranov: hi tarmel
        Fefonz Quan: unveiled - new for your perception
        Fael Illyar: yes
        Fefonz Quan: interesting Solo, like we see through the filter of memory
        Fefonz Quan: i believe it happens all the time
        Fael Illyar: filter of memory wouldn't be so bad but it often tends to be through filter of guesses made based on the memory.
        Solobill Laville: yes, so it's framed in conceptualizations
        Fefonz Quan: yes. we don't hear this song, we hear this song *again*, which is a total different experience. (and the same with people - like we discussed in Pheno)
        Solobill Laville: Like I experience me experiencing you?
        Fefonz Quan: i meant in a more direct way
        Fefonz Quan: like we meet someone through expectations built on the past, (and other assumptions) rather then seeing him freshly
        Fefonz Quan: or maybe rather than seeing him at all
        Fael Illyar: yes, you could call it seeing the memory, not him.
        Fefonz Quan: exactly
        Solobill Laville: That can be a tough one
        Fael Illyar: Yes, it's curious, why trust your memory over what you see?
        Fefonz Quan: need less information processing that way
        Solobill Laville: Sometimes, I think it is just in the practicality of day-to-day life
        Fefonz Quan: takes out the effort of figuring it out again
        Fael Illyar: there's an effort?
        Fefonz Quan: i find it is for people
        Solobill Laville: "this neighbor has been an arse to me the last 6 times I've seen him/her, I'll ignore them..." that kind of thing perhaps
        Fefonz Quan: it's easiest to put you in a defined box (professor/artist/teacher etc.) then dealing with the complexity of reality
        Solobill Laville: Right, those are some of the conceptualizations I was talking about
        Solobill Laville: Boxes are easy!
        Fefonz Quan: yep, a few bits for each person and we are done with him.
        Solobill Laville: Stepping back can help to realize what are boxes actually are, in fact that we even have them at all can be a surprise
        Solobill Laville: *our
        Fefonz Quan: yes. men/women even is a nice box
        Fael Illyar has been having trouble losing awareness for several hours partially or completely putting something in a box "this needs to be done fast"
        Solobill Laville nods
        Solobill Laville: practical day-to-day life!
        Fael Illyar: Well, yes, but having things in that box has me ignoring other needs which ends up actually slowing things down :)
        Fael Illyar: as it will then cause me to avoid the thing that needs doing fast since it's so exhausting to concentrate on it :) .. well, that's why I'm trying to figure out how to avoid putting things in the box.
        Wester Kiranov: being in a hurry is one of the most effective ways to lose awareness
        Solobill Laville: heh, yup
        Fefonz Quan: or focus sometimes
        Fael Illyar: It is ... and rather painful one too.
        Solobill Laville: Often being in a hurry also presupposes multi-tasking, another anti-awareness demon
        Fael Illyar: ah, yes, that's going on too :)
        Wester Kiranov: i was thinking of some study where they had people write a speech about the Good Samaritan, or something neutral. And when they had to give them they either told them they had plenty of time or that they were in a big hurry. And then they put someone clearly in need of help on their way. Guess who helped, and who did not?
        Fefonz Quan: i found multitasking can also increase awareness
        Fefonz Quan would anyhow postpone the task to the last minutes, equating the two options :)
        Solobill Laville is listening
        Fefonz Quan: i guess teh ones in a hurry didn't help, but that is a technical issue
        Fael Illyar: Heh, I tend to equate the two options too :)
        Wester Kiranov: I do think it is weird that thinking about the Good Samaritan did not help much
        Fefonz Quan: so who did help?
        Wester Kiranov: The ones who thought they had time, regardless of the subject of the talk.
        Fefonz Quan: so you see, people are good ebven when not writing moral stories :)
        Wester Kiranov: as long as they do not think they are in a hurry
        Fefonz Quan: well, you can't escape priorities
        Fael Illyar: Hi Shufei :)
        Wester Kiranov: So, giving a talk on how important it is to help persons in need is more important than actually helping a person in need?
        Shufei Zenith: Hewwo
        Shufei Zenith quietly sits down.
        Solobill Laville: Hiya, Shufei :)
        Fefonz Quan: well, if this is a job talk.... that starts to depend on the fine details of the experiment
        Wol Euler: hello shufei, welcome
        Fefonz Quan: hello shufei
        Solobill Laville: Try not to feel like you are at a Board interview sitting over all by yourself! :)
        Shufei Zenith blinks away the greys slowly.
        Wol Euler: :)
        Wol Euler: we don't bite.
        Shufei Zenith: Thank you Ms. Euler. :> I'm very slow moving today, so can only just barely see you.
        Shufei Zenith: Please don't let me interrupt you, but mind if I sit here?
        Solobill Laville: Shufei, you are a friend of Dakini's right?
        Shufei Zenith: Yesh, Dakini's my nice neighbour. :>
        Wol Euler: ah, ok, so you know about the group, and our website?
        Wol Euler: and that we publish the logs of these conversations. May we include your name and comments in the published record?
        Shufei Zenith: Yesh, I do, ma'am. I was here once before and have heard of your ongoing experiment.
        Shufei Zenith: No worries.
        Wol Euler: ty :)
        Shufei Zenith: (Hello, record!)
        Shufei Zenith waves at the pool recorder.
        Solobill Laville: We only have a few more minutes...but here's a question that may be germane to the topic at hand...
        Fefonz Quan: germane? (wol?)
        Wol Euler chuckles
        Solobill Laville: Does anyone here think of "my time", "my spouse's time", "my son/daughter" time, "work time", etc.?
        Solobill Laville: (germane = pertinent / applicable)
        Fael Illyar: ... my first thought is "what a strange way to deal with time."
        Wol Euler: only if I feel the need to defend myself against encroachment :)
        Fefonz Quan: in what sense Solo?
        Fefonz Quan: (the time)
        Tarmel Udimo: I do divide time into time for my projects and everything else time
        Tarmel Udimo: but then I live a very previlidge life this life time to do as I please
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Solobill Laville: Well, my the point to the question is that a lot of people do do that I think
        Solobill Laville: (I was one of them)
        Fefonz Quan: do you mean "my time with my spouse" etc. or their time?
        Solobill Laville: as in me saying, "this is Fefonz time" for when we go bowling
        Solobill Laville: or whatever
        Fefonz Quan: yes i see.
        Fefonz Quan: not so much
        Fefonz Quan: work tend to have it though, when defined for certain hours a day
        Tarmel Udimo: no don't really think like that, but I will make an effort to see friends and make sure they are okay
        Tarmel Udimo: and how do you think now Solo?
        Solobill Laville: In his book on mindfulness Thich Nhat Hanh had told a story of a man who used to do that, but switched to the
        Solobill Laville: perspective that "all time" is "my time"
        Solobill Laville: - which I incorporated a few year back for myself
        Fefonz Quan: yes, sounds like the right way
        Tarmel Udimo: yes I think that's how I think:-)
        Solobill Laville: and it helps to keep you "present" within that feeling of ownership, I think
        Fefonz Quan: (for some people all time is work time)
        Solobill Laville: right
        Tarmel Udimo: well it depends on how you define 'work'
        Fefonz Quan: helps you also to watch your time frmo other trying to gt hold of it
        Tarmel Udimo: working on oneself to stay awake and aware is this work?
        Fefonz Quan: not at all tarmel
        Tarmel Udimo: it sure feels like it sometimes:-)
        Fefonz Quan: professional work
        Solobill Laville: It does require effort ;)
        Shufei Zenith: Play. :>
        Tarmel Udimo: I know I was throwing in curved ball
        Tarmel Udimo: and Play yes Shufei
        Fefonz Quan: maybe when it feels like it is the time to rest and let go
        Solobill Laville: yes, play is a good one to have "time ownership" of!
        Solobill Laville: Everything is...
        Fefonz Quan: and - working can be fun too :)
        Shufei Zenith nods.
        Tarmel Udimo: so do you even use the word ownership anymore in relationship to time solo?
        Solobill Laville: It is great when it is!
        Solobill Laville: no, Tarmel, just that it is all my time...
        Fael Illyar: even work can be play :)
        Fefonz Quan feels a little hard with ownership
        Shufei Zenith: Yesh, Fael, just add a song or whistle!
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Fefonz Quan: always look at the bright side of time :)
        Tarmel Udimo: opps sorry folks, off to pheono
        Solobill Laville: Bye, Tarmel
        Wol Euler: bye tarmel, take care
        Wester Kiranov: bye tarmel
        Tarmel Udimo: nice talking see you later aligators
        Shufei Zenith: gby, Tarmel. :>
        Solobill Laville: Bye,Fef, may you be non-objective/subjective (in Pheno)!
        Fael Illyar: Oh, she went already
        Wol Euler: :)
        Fael Illyar: See you later Fef :)
        Fefonz Quan find it hard to leave in the middle, but well, bye all :)
        Wol Euler: bye fefonz, take care
        Wester Kiranov: i'm leaving too. bye all
        Solobill Laville: It's all your time, Fef
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Solobill Laville: Bye, Wester
        Wol Euler: bye wester
        Wol Euler: well that was quite abrupt :)
        Fael Illyar: See you later Wester :)
        Wol Euler: short of time I guess.
        Solobill Laville: She had a workshop to get to!
        Shufei Zenith: Time keeps on slipping. Into the future. And so do our friends. :>
        Wol Euler: sure, I know :)
        Solobill Laville: Tick, tock, do, do, do, do, dooooooo
        Wol Euler: who was that?
        Fael Illyar smiles.
        Solobill Laville: Steve Miller band - Fly like an Eagle
        Wol Euler: mmmm, right.
        Wol Euler: ty
        Shufei Zenith: Yesh. :D
        Solobill Laville: Loved that album...
        Wol Euler: I think that's the only SMB song I know...
        Shufei Zenith: Time. Flowin' like a river. To the sea.
        Solobill Laville: I bet there's more!
        Wol Euler: only one that comes to mind anysway
        Shufei Zenith: To the sea.
        Wol Euler opens iTunes on the other computer...
        Solobill Laville: Rats...I think Shuf stumped me on that one
        Shufei Zenith: Allan Parsons Project. :D
        Solobill Laville: Ah!
        Shufei Zenith: A good one for party to say goodbye.
        Shufei Zenith: Kind of sad.
        Solobill Laville: Fael, is your tag japanese?
        Fael Illyar: Yes :)
        Solobill Laville: i can see the font for the first time! Must be Word 2007
        Shufei Zenith: 紅蓮花呢?
        Solobill Laville: I'll guess- - "Hostess"
        Fael Illyar: installing asian language support should be neough
        Solobill Laville: ?
        Fael Illyar: no, it's meaning is red lotus
        Shufei Zenith: Red lotus something.
        Solobill Laville: Rats...0 for 2...
        Shufei Zenith: Yesh. :>
        Fael Illyar: the last part is a japanese suffix for names.
        Shufei Zenith: Oh, like "san"?
        Fael Illyar: yes
        Shufei Zenith: Ok, thanks. :>
        Fael Illyar: but the way you wrote it is not quite how it shows on my screen
        Solobill Laville: Mine either
        Shufei Zenith: Yesh, I can only write the kanji.
        Wol Euler: oh, yeah, I know some of these. The Joker, Rockin' Me, Take the Money and Run
        Wol Euler: huh
        Solobill Laville: hehe, you've been listening all right!
        Wol Euler: somehow never bothered to find out who was singing them.
        Shufei Zenith giggles softly.
        Solobill Laville: Good middle North Americana music
        Fael Illyar smiles.
        Wol Euler: though in the case of TtMaR it may have been deliberate, that song really annoys me
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Shufei Zenith: Not good karma maybe. :> You ought give the money wisely.
        Solobill Laville: indeed
        Wol Euler: murder is also pretty uncool in my (admittedly oldfashioned) view...
        Solobill Laville: You are a karma policewoman, Ms. Euler...
        Shufei Zenith agrees with Ms. Euler.
        Shufei Zenith: What is the murder song?
        Solobill Laville: "shot a man down in Texas".... TtMaR, SMB
        Shufei Zenith: Oh, haha :D
        Solobill Laville: how's that for acronyms
        Wol Euler: vg
        Solobill Laville: ty
        Wol Euler: yw
        Solobill Laville: omg
        Wol Euler: lol
        Shufei Zenith: nbaa
        Wol Euler: nkabtysireu
        Solobill Laville: What??
        Shufei Zenith: ? :>
        Wol Euler giggles and waits
        Shufei Zenith heard a chime.
        Wol Euler: "never kiss a baby till you're sure it's right end up"
        Shufei Zenith giggles softly.
        Solobill Laville: yes, counting (or breathing) time
        Solobill Laville: roygbiv
        Wol Euler: egbdf
        Shufei Zenith: Oh, the PaB challenge. :>
        Solobill Laville: yes, they do ;)
        Wol Euler: the game for newbies that we were talking about!
        Solobill Laville: Ah....
        Shufei Zenith: Oh, I go now. :> Thank you for letting me sit with you.
        Shufei Zenith: It's wonderful to see your group has grown.
        Wol Euler: welcome, shufei. come by any time
        Solobill Laville: Bye, Shufei, come back anytime
        Wol Euler: well, there are four specific times :)
        Shufei Zenith: I willl try to, do so.
        Solobill Laville: 1, 7, 1, 7
        Shufei Zenith: Yesh, 1 and 7, right?
        Wol Euler: mmhmm
        Shufei Zenith: Yesh.
        Fael Illyar smiles 'See you later, perhaps, Shufei.'
        Shufei Zenith: TTFN :>
        Wol Euler: bfn
        Solobill Laville: G'night, kiddo!

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