2009.03.13 13:00 - Tags, Boxes, and "my time"

The Guardian for this meeting was Solobill Laville. The comments are by Solobill Laville. Again, friends, RL
craziness is shortcircuiting any chance for comments as of yet...But here is the chat!

    Solobill Laville: Good day, Wol! Wester! :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi wol, solo
    Wol Euler: oh, sorry, I was geeking :)
    Wol Euler: hello adams, solo, wester
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Adams!
    Wester Kiranov: hi adams
    Adams Rubble: Hello Bill, Woll and Wester :)
    Wol Euler: nice tag, adams :)
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Adams Rubble: Thanks Wol; it says the same thing as yours does with different words :)
    Solobill Laville: I think most people would think it means you are in a hurry.. ;)
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Solobill Laville: Might mean the same as mine too...
    Adams Rubble was thinking about that Bill :)
    Adams Rubble: Couldn't fit anything about timelessness in the small space
    Wol Euler nods. Group titles are too short :(
    Adams Rubble: It serves to keep people from botheiing me too :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wester Kiranov: I think solos tag (and mine) are things you have to do to realize the truth of wols and adams' tag
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Solobill Laville: Interesting...
    Solobill Laville: Wol's I believe is perhaps the most fundamental of all
    Wol Euler smiles. Mine is meant quite literally, a friend made it for me as a reminder or a mantra, at a time when I needed to hear it.
    Wol Euler: I'm not sure whether it actually helps or not, but I wear it in the hope that it encourage myself.
    Solobill Laville: Heya, Fef
    Wol Euler: hello fefonz
    Adams Rubble: Hello fefonz :)
    Fefonz Quan: :) Hi Wol, Wester, Solo, Adams
    Wester Kiranov: hi fefonz
    Wester Kiranov: wol: isn't that the way it's supposed to work? by encouraging yourself?
    Wol Euler: I think that is what she had in mind, yes :)
    Solobill Laville: Has it helped as a reminder, Wol?
    Wol Euler: some days yes...
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Solobill Laville: Interesting topic came up at yesterday's meeting at this time...
    Solobill Laville: About what "stepping back" (or however it can be worded)
    Solobill Laville: allows you to "see" within yourself; how "you work", so to speak
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Adams Rubble is listening
    Solobill Laville: As an example...
    Solobill Laville: I realized of late that I was applying "my doubts" onto my wife, in public no less
    Solobill Laville: my doubts about my expertise, but anything could apply
    Solobill Laville: Point is, contemplative practice cleared the airwaves to realize that :)
    Solobill Laville: There are other examples as well...but not not being deserving, would imply something along those lines perhaps...
    Solobill Laville: Adams has shared quite a few revelations in her blog...does anyone have anything else along those lines?
    Adams Rubble nods
    Adams Rubble: Hello fael :)
    Solobill Laville: Heya, Fael :)
    Wol Euler: hello fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
    Fefonz Quan: hi Fael :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi fael
    Solobill Laville: In a very real way, I look at it as cultivating the garden of "me"...which ultimately contributes
    Solobill Laville: to diminishing the barrier between "me" and "all the rest" ;)
    Fael Illyar: it might be more comfortable to have the barrier up some though.
    Fefonz Quan: yes, comfort is a seductive agent though
    Solobill Laville: I think we're hard-wired to reinforce it all the time, yes
    Fael Illyar: Well, it's a matter of balance ... well, like everything :)
    Fael Illyar: too little, uncomfortable, too much, uncomfortable
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Adams Rubble thinking out loud...expertise is something we have, not what we are
    Fefonz Quan: but maybe - too little, uncomfortable today, then comfort tomorrow
    Solobill Laville: I speaking more in terms of the "me-ego" as the barrier between my see and Being Seeing through me
    Adams Rubble: Yes Bill
    Fefonz Quan: So Solo you mean the seeing as being help you observe your behavior n more objuective way?
    Solobill Laville: not really, Fef
    Solobill Laville: More so that contemplative practice helps to separate out the things the we "have"
    Solobill Laville: which we think we "are"
    Solobill Laville: but are not :)
    Adams Rubble: yes!
    Fefonz Quan: i see, yes
    Fael Illyar: objective ... I'm suddenly realizing that I'm not quite sure what that means ... even having used that word for ages.
    Fefonz Quan: yeah, i knew i should be careful aith that one :)
    Fefonz Quan: i meant more for another point ov view rather than the ego-wise
    Fefonz Quan: with*
    Fael Illyar: as in, seeing what is instead of attempting to decide what is?
    Fefonz Quan: maybe "neutral" is more appropriate
    Fefonz Quan: yes, that too fael
    Fael Illyar: I've been noticing lately that expression "I can't believe my eyes" is kind of indicating tendency to want to decide what is instead of looking and accept what you see.
    Adams Rubble has no more time...must run.... bye everyone :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)(
    Solobill Laville: BYe, Adams
    Fefonz Quan: Bye adams :)
    Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.
    Wester Kiranov: bye adams
    Solobill Laville: Yes, Fael
    Fefonz Quan: sometimes fael it is said when something new and surprising appear
    Fael Illyar: Hi Tarmel :)
    Wol Euler: hello tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: and it expersses the hardness of shiftnig position to the new reality
    Solobill Laville: That reminds to of what Chiaiu said last week to, that all those comparisons are a comparison of someting past to something present
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Tarmel :)
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Tarmel :)
    Tarmel Udimo: Hey gang
    Fael Illyar: Fefonz, not new, just unveiled.
    Wester Kiranov: hi tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: unveiled - new for your perception
    Fael Illyar: yes
    Fefonz Quan: interesting Solo, like we see through the filter of memory
    Fefonz Quan: i believe it happens all the time
    Fael Illyar: filter of memory wouldn't be so bad but it often tends to be through filter of guesses made based on the memory.
    Solobill Laville: yes, so it's framed in conceptualizations
    Fefonz Quan: yes. we don't hear this song, we hear this song *again*, which is a total different experience. (and the same with people - like we discussed in Pheno)
    Solobill Laville: Like I experience me experiencing you?
    Fefonz Quan: i meant in a more direct way
    Fefonz Quan: like we meet someone through expectations built on the past, (and other assumptions) rather then seeing him freshly
    Fefonz Quan: or maybe rather than seeing him at all
    Fael Illyar: yes, you could call it seeing the memory, not him.
    Fefonz Quan: exactly
    Solobill Laville: That can be a tough one
    Fael Illyar: Yes, it's curious, why trust your memory over what you see?
    Fefonz Quan: need less information processing that way
    Solobill Laville: Sometimes, I think it is just in the practicality of day-to-day life
    Fefonz Quan: takes out the effort of figuring it out again
    Fael Illyar: there's an effort?
    Fefonz Quan: i find it is for people
    Solobill Laville: "this neighbor has been an arse to me the last 6 times I've seen him/her, I'll ignore them..." that kind of thing perhaps
    Fefonz Quan: it's easiest to put you in a defined box (professor/artist/teacher etc.) then dealing with the complexity of reality
    Solobill Laville: Right, those are some of the conceptualizations I was talking about
    Solobill Laville: Boxes are easy!
    Fefonz Quan: yep, a few bits for each person and we are done with him.
    Solobill Laville: Stepping back can help to realize what are boxes actually are, in fact that we even have them at all can be a surprise
    Solobill Laville: *our
    Fefonz Quan: yes. men/women even is a nice box
    Fael Illyar has been having trouble losing awareness for several hours partially or completely putting something in a box "this needs to be done fast"
    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville: practical day-to-day life!
    Fael Illyar: Well, yes, but having things in that box has me ignoring other needs which ends up actually slowing things down :)
    Fael Illyar: as it will then cause me to avoid the thing that needs doing fast since it's so exhausting to concentrate on it :) .. well, that's why I'm trying to figure out how to avoid putting things in the box.
    Wester Kiranov: being in a hurry is one of the most effective ways to lose awareness
    Solobill Laville: heh, yup
    Fefonz Quan: or focus sometimes
    Fael Illyar: It is ... and rather painful one too.
    Solobill Laville: Often being in a hurry also presupposes multi-tasking, another anti-awareness demon
    Fael Illyar: ah, yes, that's going on too :)
    Wester Kiranov: i was thinking of some study where they had people write a speech about the Good Samaritan, or something neutral. And when they had to give them they either told them they had plenty of time or that they were in a big hurry. And then they put someone clearly in need of help on their way. Guess who helped, and who did not?
    Fefonz Quan: i found multitasking can also increase awareness
    Fefonz Quan would anyhow postpone the task to the last minutes, equating the two options :)
    Solobill Laville is listening
    Fefonz Quan: i guess teh ones in a hurry didn't help, but that is a technical issue
    Fael Illyar: Heh, I tend to equate the two options too :)
    Wester Kiranov: I do think it is weird that thinking about the Good Samaritan did not help much
    Fefonz Quan: so who did help?
    Wester Kiranov: The ones who thought they had time, regardless of the subject of the talk.
    Fefonz Quan: so you see, people are good ebven when not writing moral stories :)
    Wester Kiranov: as long as they do not think they are in a hurry
    Fefonz Quan: well, you can't escape priorities
    Fael Illyar: Hi Shufei :)
    Wester Kiranov: So, giving a talk on how important it is to help persons in need is more important than actually helping a person in need?
    Shufei Zenith: Hewwo
    Shufei Zenith quietly sits down.
    Solobill Laville: Hiya, Shufei :)
    Fefonz Quan: well, if this is a job talk.... that starts to depend on the fine details of the experiment
    Wol Euler: hello shufei, welcome
    Fefonz Quan: hello shufei
    Solobill Laville: Try not to feel like you are at a Board interview sitting over all by yourself! :)
    Shufei Zenith blinks away the greys slowly.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: we don't bite.
    Shufei Zenith: Thank you Ms. Euler. :> I'm very slow moving today, so can only just barely see you.
    Shufei Zenith: Please don't let me interrupt you, but mind if I sit here?
    Solobill Laville: Shufei, you are a friend of Dakini's right?
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh, Dakini's my nice neighbour. :>
    Wol Euler: ah, ok, so you know about the group, and our website?
    Wol Euler: and that we publish the logs of these conversations. May we include your name and comments in the published record?
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh, I do, ma'am. I was here once before and have heard of your ongoing experiment.
    Shufei Zenith: No worries.
    Wol Euler: ty :)
    Shufei Zenith: (Hello, record!)
    Shufei Zenith waves at the pool recorder.
    Solobill Laville: We only have a few more minutes...but here's a question that may be germane to the topic at hand...
    Fefonz Quan: germane? (wol?)
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Solobill Laville: Does anyone here think of "my time", "my spouse's time", "my son/daughter" time, "work time", etc.?
    Solobill Laville: (germane = pertinent / applicable)
    Fael Illyar: ... my first thought is "what a strange way to deal with time."
    Wol Euler: only if I feel the need to defend myself against encroachment :)
    Fefonz Quan: in what sense Solo?
    Fefonz Quan: (the time)
    Tarmel Udimo: I do divide time into time for my projects and everything else time
    Tarmel Udimo: but then I live a very previlidge life this life time to do as I please
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Solobill Laville: Well, my the point to the question is that a lot of people do do that I think
    Solobill Laville: (I was one of them)
    Fefonz Quan: do you mean "my time with my spouse" etc. or their time?
    Solobill Laville: as in me saying, "this is Fefonz time" for when we go bowling
    Solobill Laville: or whatever
    Fefonz Quan: yes i see.
    Fefonz Quan: not so much
    Fefonz Quan: work tend to have it though, when defined for certain hours a day
    Tarmel Udimo: no don't really think like that, but I will make an effort to see friends and make sure they are okay
    Tarmel Udimo: and how do you think now Solo?
    Solobill Laville: In his book on mindfulness Thich Nhat Hanh had told a story of a man who used to do that, but switched to the
    Solobill Laville: perspective that "all time" is "my time"
    Solobill Laville: - which I incorporated a few year back for myself
    Fefonz Quan: yes, sounds like the right way
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I think that's how I think:-)
    Solobill Laville: and it helps to keep you "present" within that feeling of ownership, I think
    Fefonz Quan: (for some people all time is work time)
    Solobill Laville: right
    Tarmel Udimo: well it depends on how you define 'work'
    Fefonz Quan: helps you also to watch your time frmo other trying to gt hold of it
    Tarmel Udimo: working on oneself to stay awake and aware is this work?
    Fefonz Quan: not at all tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: it sure feels like it sometimes:-)
    Fefonz Quan: professional work
    Solobill Laville: It does require effort ;)
    Shufei Zenith: Play. :>
    Tarmel Udimo: I know I was throwing in curved ball
    Tarmel Udimo: and Play yes Shufei
    Fefonz Quan: maybe when it feels like it is the time to rest and let go
    Solobill Laville: yes, play is a good one to have "time ownership" of!
    Solobill Laville: Everything is...
    Fefonz Quan: and - working can be fun too :)
    Shufei Zenith nods.
    Tarmel Udimo: so do you even use the word ownership anymore in relationship to time solo?
    Solobill Laville: It is great when it is!
    Solobill Laville: no, Tarmel, just that it is all my time...
    Fael Illyar: even work can be play :)
    Fefonz Quan feels a little hard with ownership
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh, Fael, just add a song or whistle!
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Fefonz Quan: always look at the bright side of time :)
    Tarmel Udimo: opps sorry folks, off to pheono
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Tarmel
    Wol Euler: bye tarmel, take care
    Wester Kiranov: bye tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: nice talking see you later aligators
    Shufei Zenith: gby, Tarmel. :>
    Solobill Laville: Bye,Fef, may you be non-objective/subjective (in Pheno)!
    Fael Illyar: Oh, she went already
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Fef :)
    Fefonz Quan find it hard to leave in the middle, but well, bye all :)
    Wol Euler: bye fefonz, take care
    Wester Kiranov: i'm leaving too. bye all
    Solobill Laville: It's all your time, Fef
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Wester
    Wol Euler: bye wester
    Wol Euler: well that was quite abrupt :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Wester :)
    Wol Euler: short of time I guess.
    Solobill Laville: She had a workshop to get to!
    Shufei Zenith: Time keeps on slipping. Into the future. And so do our friends. :>
    Wol Euler: sure, I know :)
    Solobill Laville: Tick, tock, do, do, do, do, dooooooo
    Wol Euler: who was that?
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Solobill Laville: Steve Miller band - Fly like an Eagle
    Wol Euler: mmmm, right.
    Wol Euler: ty
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh. :D
    Solobill Laville: Loved that album...
    Wol Euler: I think that's the only SMB song I know...
    Shufei Zenith: Time. Flowin' like a river. To the sea.
    Solobill Laville: I bet there's more!
    Wol Euler: only one that comes to mind anysway
    Shufei Zenith: To the sea.
    Wol Euler opens iTunes on the other computer...
    Solobill Laville: Rats...I think Shuf stumped me on that one
    Shufei Zenith: Allan Parsons Project. :D
    Solobill Laville: Ah!
    Shufei Zenith: A good one for party to say goodbye.
    Shufei Zenith: Kind of sad.
    Solobill Laville: Fael, is your tag japanese?
    Fael Illyar: Yes :)
    Solobill Laville: i can see the font for the first time! Must be Word 2007
    Shufei Zenith: 紅蓮花呢？
    Solobill Laville: I'll guess- - "Hostess"
    Fael Illyar: installing asian language support should be neough
    Solobill Laville: ?
    Fael Illyar: no, it's meaning is red lotus
    Shufei Zenith: Red lotus something.
    Solobill Laville: Rats...0 for 2...
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh. :>
    Fael Illyar: the last part is a japanese suffix for names.
    Shufei Zenith: Oh, like "san"?
    Fael Illyar: yes
    Shufei Zenith: Ok, thanks. :>
    Fael Illyar: but the way you wrote it is not quite how it shows on my screen
    Solobill Laville: Mine either
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh, I can only write the kanji.
    Wol Euler: oh, yeah, I know some of these. The Joker, Rockin' Me, Take the Money and Run
    Wol Euler: huh
    Solobill Laville: hehe, you've been listening all right!
    Wol Euler: somehow never bothered to find out who was singing them.
    Shufei Zenith giggles softly.
    Solobill Laville: Good middle North Americana music
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Wol Euler: though in the case of TtMaR it may have been deliberate, that song really annoys me
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Shufei Zenith: Not good karma maybe. :> You ought give the money wisely.
    Solobill Laville: indeed
    Wol Euler: murder is also pretty uncool in my (admittedly oldfashioned) view...
    Solobill Laville: You are a karma policewoman, Ms. Euler...
    Shufei Zenith agrees with Ms. Euler.
    Shufei Zenith: What is the murder song?
    Solobill Laville: "shot a man down in Texas".... TtMaR, SMB
    Shufei Zenith: Oh, haha :D
    Solobill Laville: how's that for acronyms
    Wol Euler: vg
    Solobill Laville: ty
    Wol Euler: yw
    Solobill Laville: omg
    Wol Euler: lol
    Shufei Zenith: nbaa
    Wol Euler: nkabtysireu
    Solobill Laville: What??
    Shufei Zenith: ? :>
    Wol Euler giggles and waits
    Shufei Zenith heard a chime.
    Wol Euler: "never kiss a baby till you're sure it's right end up"
    Shufei Zenith giggles softly.
    Solobill Laville: yes, counting (or breathing) time
    Solobill Laville: roygbiv
    Wol Euler: egbdf
    Shufei Zenith: Oh, the PaB challenge. :>
    Solobill Laville: yes, they do ;)
    Wol Euler: the game for newbies that we were talking about!
    Solobill Laville: Ah....
    Shufei Zenith: Oh, I go now. :> Thank you for letting me sit with you.
    Shufei Zenith: It's wonderful to see your group has grown.
    Wol Euler: welcome, shufei. come by any time
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Shufei, come back anytime
    Wol Euler: well, there are four specific times :)
    Shufei Zenith: I willl try to, do so.
    Solobill Laville: 1, 7, 1, 7
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh, 1 and 7, right?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Shufei Zenith: Yesh.
    Fael Illyar smiles 'See you later, perhaps, Shufei.'
    Shufei Zenith: TTFN :>
    Wol Euler: bfn
    Solobill Laville: G'night, kiddo!