2009.03.14 01:00 - "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"

The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

Wol and Bertrum arrived at the pavilion to find no GOC.......(I had slept late!)

The PaB auto-logger, and Wol's group titles kicked off the discussion...........

Wol Euler: morning bertrum
Bertrum Quan: Hi Wol.
Bertrum Quan: How are you this evening/morning?
Wol Euler: morning for me :) Pretty well, not yet breakfasted. And you?
Bertrum Quan: It's quite late. Breakfast is quite a ways off...
Wol Euler smiles
Wol Euler: the roundness of the world is a constant delight and puzzlement here
Bertrum Quan: and it's smallness...
Bertrum Quan: its
Wol Euler: mmhmm - until you try to move from SL to RL
Wol Euler: then suddenly it's huge again
Bertrum Quan: still, communications have brought people together in good ways.
Wol Euler nods
Bertrum Quan: this system you helped design here to record the conversations is impressive. Fael said you did most of thw work.
Bertrum Quan: the
Wol Euler: well ...
Wol Euler: it was a joint effort. Ade had the idea for getting the listeners to work. Fael did the external bits of getting a webserver to listen to us. I did hte grunt work here in-world
Bertrum Quan: well congratulations for your part of it!
Wol Euler smiles. Thank you
Bertrum Quan: Why do you have a tag above your name that says "I deserve happiness?"
Wol Euler chuckles. It's a reminder or a mantra.
Wol Euler: A friend made it for me, at a time when I needed encouragement.
Wol Euler: (it's a group title, just for me)
Bertrum Quan: It can be read as a protest...
Bertrum Quan: of one who has been denied...
Wol Euler: o.O
Wol Euler: only denying it to myself ...
Bertrum Quan: I hadn't noticed before...
Wol Euler: well, I don't always wear it. I have several that I rotate
Bertrum Quan: Do you a subject that you'd like to discuss?
Wol Euler: to be honest, no :) This is Scath#s spot and she often sits alone, so I came along to keep her company.
Wol Euler: do you have a subject?
Bertrum Quan: Nothing pressing.
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: well, we could sit and count breaths, doing Stim's exercises :)
Bertrum Quan: It's up to you.
Bertrum Quan: You've rotated your banner!
Wol Euler: :)
Bertrum Quan: Is that an automatic function?
Wol Euler: no, I chose it from the group list.
Wol Euler: you can have as many group titles as there are "roles" in the group assigned to you
Bertrum Quan: It's an interesting feature--a kind of billboard...
Wol Euler: mmhmm. Many people use them as a kind of mini-profile
Wol Euler: like an ultra-short visiting card
Bertrum Quan: so what does this new banner mean?
Wol Euler laughs. Apart from the boasting, it's the title of a song by Right Said Fred, from many years ago
Wol Euler: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/onehit...exylyrics.html
Bertrum Quan: Don't know the song. Is it very famous?
Wol Euler: it was at the time, this is ... ten years ago now? maybe more?
Bertrum Quan: Didn't know it then either...
Wol Euler: oh wow, 1991. seventeen years.
Wol Euler sighs.
Wol Euler: I won't ask how old you were 17 years ago ... :)

I arrived at last, made my apologies and the discussion continues on the subject of age..............

Wol Euler: morning scath!
Bertrum Quan: Hi Scath.
Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Wol, Bertrum
Scathach Rhiadra: so sorry, I am late
Wol Euler smiles. Not to worry
Scathach Rhiadra: never woke up
Wol Euler: are you at least rested and refreshed?
Bertrum Quan: Awakeneing...
Scathach Rhiadra: sort of, not fully awake yet:)
Bertrum Quan: true for me too...
Bertrum Quan: as a general statement!
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: heheh
Scathach Rhiadra: is there a topic?
Wol Euler: group titles? 17 year old pop songs?
Wol Euler: (you remember Right Said Fred and "I'm too sexy for my shirt", Scath?)
Scathach Rhiadra: oh yes, I remember that
Wol Euler smiles. It was pretty hard to avoid in the UK that year
Bertrum Quan: Was it widely played in the US too?
Wol Euler: apparently, yes. wikipedia says it was #4 on the Billboard 100
Wol Euler <3 wikipedia and google
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertrum Quan: More evidence of my up-hipness.
Wol Euler: or of your extreme youth :)
Bertrum Quan: un-hipness
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertrum Quan: extreme youth would not be supported by conventional measuring of the sand falling through the hourglass.
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Bertrum Quan: Of course in SL anything is possible.
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler nods. I suspect that the average RL age in SL is _far_ higher than one might first think
Wol Euler: at least in places like this. Maybe the shoot-em-up and big-sex crowds are different
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Bertrum Quan: Yikes, perhaps I have to get an SL walker as I don't really know much about them. ANd they don't really interest me either in this context...
Scathach Rhiadra: ha:)
Wol Euler: no reason to force an interest :) Not my scene either.
Wol Euler: but it's a big enough world. We can stay out of each other's way
Scathach Rhiadra: nor mine
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it is amazing, at least to me, how so many radically different lifestyles co-exist in SL, without relatively few problems
Scathach Rhiadra: with*
Wol Euler: agreed
Wol Euler: perhaps it will herald a new era of tolerance and respect in RL?
Wol Euler: and experimentation too maybe
Wol Euler: I think my life would have been differnt if SL had existed 30 years ago, I would have felt that tehre were far more options open to me
Wol Euler: whereas I felt the world as very much binary, either/or, then
Scathach Rhiadra nods

Adams joins us, and bertrum poses the question which was to occupy us for the rest of the session.....

Bertrum Quan: So I pose a question to you both. I know you've had some conversations about timelessness. Have you had discussions about aging?
Wol Euler: heh. Not that I know of. Scath?
Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, no that I think of it, not a subject that seemsto cro up in SL in general
Bertrum Quan: Is it not of interest?
Wol Euler: an interesting omission, now that you mention it.
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Adams
Wol Euler: hello adams
Adams Rubble yawns. Hewllo everyone :)
Bertrum Quan: hi Adams.
Wol Euler: this is early for you, very late
Adams Rubble: very early
Scathach Rhiadra: yes Bertrum, it is of interest and should be so
Wol Euler: insomnia?
Adams Rubble: Just woke up and thought "Let's see what the Europeans are up to this morning" :)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertrum Quan: And the night-owl American.
Adams Rubble: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: I'll give you a notecard, just a mo
Scathach Rhiadra: when you talk about aging, is it the person getting old, or other people's reaction to age you mean?
Adams Rubble: ty Wol..that is thoughtful :)
Bertrum Quan: Those are both important topics.
Bertrum Quan: I was thinking more of the former...
Wol Euler: that is two topics in itself, I think: what my body does, and what I think about it
Scathach Rhiadra: ah
Wol Euler: I feel mid-twenties on my good days :)
Adams Rubble: hehe. Agi is so much not an issue in SL. We are all equalized :)
Wol Euler: I certainly don't feel the way that Wol-as-a-child imagined 50 yr olds would feel
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I remember reading somewhere that we all seem to have an image of ourselves about mid-twenties (internal age)
Adams Rubble: we can all play together
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Adams Rubble: There is a part of us that is not affected by age

aging, mindfullness and Being.............

Bertrum Quan: But onthe the other hand PaB is in part about expanding awareness
Bertrum Quan: SL is timeless. Aspects of RL are finite.
Adams Rubble: The part of me that I am becoming aware of is the part that is not affected by age
Wol Euler smiles
Adams Rubble: It is the part I left as a teenager and only now am getting back to
Adams Rubble: kind of ignored during the busy times
Bertrum Quan: And at the other end of the spectrum you are prepared for the time RL will cease to be for you?
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, is anyone ever really prepared?
Adams Rubble: When one focuses on each day and that it is enough to just be alive then one can not worry so much about whether I will be here tomorrow
Wol Euler: actually I worry more about what would happen if I lived to be 98, than about my death
Scathach Rhiadra: or conversely, some say contemplating death, frees us more to live today
Adams Rubble: hehe Wol...I hear ya
Wol Euler: both my grandmothers were very long-lived, I saw from them that it is not without disadvantages and problems
Adams Rubble: It is not a pleasant thought of being a burden to others
Wol Euler nods
Scathach Rhiadra: true
Adams Rubble: But maybe we will be 98 year olds running around SL having a grand time of it
Wol Euler smiles
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Adams Rubble: just typing a little slower
Bertrum Quan: A book I read a while ago--Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind I personally have found useful to me on this topic.
Wol Euler: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, I remember that book from the seventies:)
Bertrum Quan: Yes. But as we discussed last night there is that sense of practice...
Bertrum Quan: That's something the get you in tune with the nature ...
Bertrum Quan: that can help one get in tune with nature...
Bertrum Quan: It does related to intention as you described to me last night...
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Bertrum Quan: I would like to get the place of what I remeber was termed the unfolding of Big Mind. I see that by the way as another way to say Being (with a capital "B.").
Bertrum Quan: Sorry for the typos
Wol Euler: :)
Bertrum Quan: So aging in RL is certainly a prompt for me...
Adams Rubble: it was for me
Adams Rubble: worrying about aging is something that can be droipped along with everything else
Adams Rubble: dropped
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, it tends to focus the mind on what is important, as thought we suddenly realise what we really need to do and how little time may be left to do it in
Wol Euler nods
Adams Rubble: yes Scath :)
Wol Euler: brb
Bertrum Quan: That is what I meant by the prompt,,, not worry about it...
Adams Rubble: There is something about starting all anew that makes one feel younger
Adams Rubble: ah Bertrum :)
Adams Rubble: I will finnd out well I am doing on my next birthday. hehe
Bertrum Quan: In my perspecive, awareness of aging is a gift of sorts...
Adams Rubble: There is a more difficult part to the death issue and that is the death of one's loved ones...but that is another topic
Bertrum Quan: and a prompt as Scath noted as well...
Wol Euler: back
Scathach Rhiadra: wb:)
Wol Euler: ty
Bertrum Quan: Death is natural as is sufferinjg (pain) as well as joy. But again, that sense of attachments... to lose loved ones... well that is very hard.
Wol Euler: me nods
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Adams Rubble: It can get pretty lonely if one lives to 98
Wol Euler: that was my grandmothers' experience.
Adams Rubble nods
Wol Euler: my maternal grandmother lived long enough to see one of her great-grandchildren die :(
Bertrum Quan: And Adamas your losses are building from day 1... You don't have to be 98.
Adams Rubble nods
Adams Rubble: There is a difference between being aware of the aging process and lamenting it :)
Wol Euler: oh yes
Adams Rubble: there is joy in aging too
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Bertrum Quan: Lamenting does no one any good in my view!
Adams Rubble: right!
Scathach Rhiadra: and ageing brings a certain freedom, or maybe being aware of it and appreciating it?
Adams Rubble: We do learn from our stupidist mistakes...nice not to be making them anymore :)
Adams Rubble: yes Scath...a freedom
Wol Euler: yes, scath, in many ways it has been liberating.
Wol Euler: being able to give up on things, to say "I don't have to do X any more"
Bertrum Quan: I agree about that sense of freedom.
Bertrum Quan: But still there is work to be done... to work as getting in tune. That's what I'm attracted to in the PaB ... one has to work at being...
Adams Rubble nods
Scathach Rhiadra: yes
Wol Euler: :)
Bertrum Quan: If one is unmindful you cannot see,
Bertrum Quan: and you waste what is given to you through life itself.
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Adams Rubble: Hello Tarmel :)
Wol Euler: morning tarmel
Bertrum Quan: There are very expeirence practicioners in PaB. But they had tried to fund entry points for us beginners...

We are joined by Tarmel, closely followed by Pema....

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel
Bertrum Quan: experienced
Bertrum Quan: find (not fund) entry points...
Tarmel Udimo: hi folks, what are you doing still in PaB:-)
Wol Euler smiels
Adams Rubble: yes, it is wonderful how much they have stuck with us too
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Tarmel Udimo: so have we solved all the problems of the world yet:-)
Scathach Rhiadra: heh:)
Wol Euler: getting there :)
Bertrum Quan: It is a shame how small minded the politics of the world are... but as individuals, each person can effect a change...
Bertrum Quan: hopefully for Big Mind,,,
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Adams Rubble: Good morning Pema :)
Wol Euler: hello pema
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema
Pema Pera: well, good morning!
Tarmel Udimo: hey pema:-)
Bertrum Quan: hi Pema.
Pema Pera: Fancy to meet so many people here at this late/early hour!
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Tarmel Udimo: what are you doing up so early;-)
Wol Euler smiles. The Saturday 1am sessions often go far past teh hour.
Pema Pera: I'm wondering about that myself, Tarmel
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Pema Pera: Good seeing you again, Bertrum!
Bertrum Quan: Yes. It has been a while.
Adams Rubble stumbled into a good discussion this morning
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Adams Rubble: about aging and mindfulness
Tarmel Udimo: favourite subjects:-)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Adams Rubble: we all seem to be worried much less about aging :)
Adams Rubble wonders who are all these people spamming me at 5:30 in the morning
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, yes and more appreciative of its freedoms
Adams Rubble nods

Tarmel reminds us to really appreciate the life we have..............

Tarmel Udimo: yes one feels like this a very charmed life
Tarmel Udimo: but its only been lately that I have been able to accept that:-)
Tarmel Udimo: *is
Wol Euler nods
Pema Pera: it's an ageless and timeless time of the day at 5:30, Adams
Pema Pera: yes, Tarmel
Pema Pera: seeing that each moment is charmed is such a revelation -- yet also a kind of very mundane revelation, so hard to put into words . . . .
Tarmel Udimo: well its also acceptance
Pema Pera: yes
Tarmel Udimo: I have been looking at my 'life thread' alot lately and have always longed for all the great truths to unfold:-)
Pema Pera: but they are, Tarmel, while we speak :-)
Tarmel Udimo: yes always, and gradually I have realised my truth, is that I am living a charmed life
Tarmel Udimo: that perhaps I may have even paid dearly in a past one for the one I have now
Tarmel Udimo: seen from the outside most people wouldn't agree
Tarmel Udimo: I have no children, no partner (at the moment) not a lot of money...
Tarmel Udimo: i am a failure from a lot of people's persepectives:-)
Wol Euler nods. I could say "snap"
Tarmel Udimo: and yet I feel incredibly blessed:-)
Pema Pera: we certainly feel blessed with your presence, Tarmel! Both here in PaB and in the phenomenology workshp and at other activities!
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler smiles
Tarmel Udimo: thanks pema you're Being very sweet:-)
Pema Pera: (and may I add, with the sweet notes to your mother, which you so kindly shared with us?)
Tarmel Udimo: hahahahahah blushes
Wol Euler looks around. Yes, where is she?
Pema Pera was wondering that too
Pema Pera: probably sleeping . . .
Tarmel Udimo: slowly my friends the plot is thickening
Wol Euler: :)
Tarmel Udimo: and yes asleep
Tarmel Udimo: and so pema did you sleep well?
Pema Pera: (Tarmel, is Wol now going to reveal that she is an alt for your mother)
Tarmel Udimo: hahahahahahaha
Pema Pera: Oops, wrong window! Dang
Adams Rubble: hehe
Wol Euler: ha, the secret is out.
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: yes, it'S true.
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: (this may lead to very complex strands of future conversations . . .)
Tarmel Udimo: yes:-)
Wol Euler laughs
Pema Pera: (we may never hear the end of this one!)
Pema Pera: (the start of a running joke . . . .)
Tarmel Udimo: well you do always emphaize an open circle at all times;-)
Wol Euler speaks directly to readers of the wiki: That was a joke. Note the smiles and chuckling all round.
Adams Rubble: yeah right :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Tarmel Udimo: I think Wol and I share a slightly different relationship:-)
Pema Pera getting very curious now
Tarmel Udimo: Friends - got you:-)
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow
Wol Euler: and fellow ex-Canadians
Pema Pera: !
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Pema Pera: So Wol is raising fellow ex-Canadians?
Pema Pera: how many?
Wol Euler laughs. well done Pema, that was very sharp.
Tarmel Udimo: you are in good form this morning Pema:ma Pera: :)
Pema Pera thinks Wol is slipping into the mother role

and Pema welcomes Bertrum back........

Pema Pera: And let us all welcome back Bertrum, as our returned guardian!
Tarmel Udimo: ahhhh
Wol Euler cheers
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pema Pera: Bertrum was one of the PaB guardians early on
Pema Pera: but then was too busy in RL for several months
Pema Pera: great to have you back, Bertrum!
Bertrum Quan: Thank you all.

   

We finished the session with a discussion on Chinese horoscopes, which being of a personal nature is not included here..............