2009.03.14 13:00 - A little ambiguity

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging databse. The guardian was Aurora Kitaj.




    Adams Rubble: Hello Zen :)

    Adams Rubble: Hello Scath :)

    Zen Arado: HI Adams, Scath :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Zen

    Adams Rubble: Zen, did you come into PaB from one of the Kira groups or did you just find us?

    Adams Rubble: Hello Michorod :)

    Adams Rubble: Hello Arabella :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Micko, Ara

    Mickorod Renard: hiya

    Adams Rubble: Hello Pema :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema

    Mickorod Renard: hiya Pema

    Pema Pera: hi everybody!

    arabella Ella: hiya everyone!

    Zen Arado: hi Mick, Aea, Pema

    Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara

    Mickorod Renard: Zen Scath Adams

    Adams Rubble whispers Shhhhhhh, it's OK

    Pema Pera: :-)

    Pema Pera: it has been another wild week for you, Adams, right?

    Adams Rubble: Yes but ending very quietly

    Mickorod Renard: yeh,,she sat on my knee lastnight

    Adams Rubble: hehe

    Mickorod Renard: or was it thursday

    Pema Pera waiting for more details :)

    Adams Rubble forgot to wait for people to rezz when there is a big crowd

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Pema Pera: ah!

    Mickorod Renard: any excuse

    arabella Ella: i am sure micko is not complaining... smile

    Mickorod Renard: he he

    Pema Pera: Any further thoughts about your dreams, Adams?

    Adams Rubble: No, since it has not repeated it didn't seem to be something I should worry about..just take lightly as you suggested

    Adams Rubble: I haven't done any mass murders anyway

    Mickorod Renard: can I ask about the dreams?

    Pema Pera: I was sitting in PaB with friends with one major difference. Instead of a small group at the pavilion in Bieup, we were on a hillside with a great number of avatars of many sizes, shapes and sizes. It almost looked as if all the animals had escaped Grendel's. I do remember a giraffe sticking up and birds of many shapes and colors in addition to the many regular humanoid avatars.

    Adams Rubble: ?)

    Pema Pera: was one of the dreams that Adams recorded recently :)

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Adams Rubble forgot about that

    Pema Pera: nice to have SL dreams, isn't it?

    Mickorod Renard: ok,,cool

    Pema Pera: happens to me quite often too, these days

    Zen Arado: can dreams throw any light on RL do you think?

    Mickorod Renard: I only ever recall one

    Mickorod Renard: of sl

    Adams Rubble dreams regularly of SL

    Pema Pera: Hi Yowl!

    Yowl Coleslaw: hello

    Adams Rubble: Hello Yowl

    Zen Arado: hi Yowl

    Yowl Coleslaw: whats this?

    Pema Pera: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?

    Pema Pera: And feel free to join us, any time

    Yowl Coleslaw: sounds nice

    Mickorod Renard: I met some italians in renaisance costume in a dream..so as I couldnt understand them i switched on babbler and typed my talk to them

    Adams Rubble: :)

    Pema Pera: hahaha

    Zen Arado: good idea :)

    Pema Pera: how convenient!

    Adams Rubble: Sounds like a nice dream :)

    Pema Pera wishes for an unbabbler

    Mickorod Renard: he he

    Pema Pera: when people in a restaurant talk too loudly in a language he happens to know

    Mickorod Renard: Hi yowl

    Yowl Coleslaw: hello

    Yowl Coleslaw: well i better go nice talking to you all

    Yowl Coleslaw: bye

    Pema Pera: bye Yowl!

    Zen Arado: bye

    Adams Rubble: bye Yowl

    Pema Pera: Hi Aurora!

    Mickorod Renard: bye

    Mickorod Renard: Hi aurora

    Zen Arado: HI Aurora :)

    Adams Rubble: Yowl's profile said she gets bored easily

    Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, what is the minimum age for the main grid, is it not 18?

    Aurora Kitaj: so sorry I'm late everyone!

    Adams Rubble: Hi Aurora :)

    Aurora Kitaj: Putting kids to bed

    Pema Pera: yes, Scath

    Pema Pera: good to see you, Aurora!

    Zen Arado: this hour early is awkward for us

    Scathach Rhiadra: his profile said 17, if Lindens catch him:)

    Pema Pera: Do you remember how to claim the log from the listener in the middle of the fountain?

    arabella Ella: yes

    arabella Ella: early hour i mean

    Aurora Kitaj: yes, thank you

    Mickorod Renard: I struggled knowing how to attach snapshots

    Adams Rubble: You have to put them into the bottom of the page first and then can attach them above

    Adams Rubble: Hello Tarmel

    Mickorod Renard: hi Tarmel

    Zen Arado: Hi Tarmel

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel

    Pema Pera: hi there Tarmel!

    Pema Pera wondering whether Adams has no time, or is interested in "no time" . . . .

    Adams Rubble: hehe

    Adams Rubble: a little ambiguity

    arabella Ella: hiya Tarmel

    Mickorod Renard: I will have to practice with the snapshots

    Aurora Kitaj: hello Tarmel, arabella Scath, adams, Zen Pema and Mickorod:)

    Adams Rubble: Feel free to ask if you have problems Michorod

    arabella Ella: Pema ... about time ... besides zeroth time ... do you think it is possible to 'stretch' time cos the passage of time is so weird

    Mickorod Renard: thankyou

    Pema Pera: well, I don't know whether I can stretch time, but yes. time shows up in many ways

    arabella Ella: yes but

    arabella Ella: what i mean is

    Adams Rubble: Time can pass very slowly at work or on jury duty

    arabella Ella: if we are waiting and bored time takes ages

    arabella Ella: if you have deadlines or are busy time seems to go by so fast

    Pema Pera: :)

    Adams Rubble: yep

    Zen Arado: at a zen retreat time seems to disappear

    arabella Ella: and when asleep sometimes one tends to wake up always at same time like body as an alarm clock

    Zen Arado: when you meditate all day

    arabella Ella: hey Zen I need a retreat ... but ... not easy where i am

    Zen Arado: something happens to it

    arabella Ella: yes i think it is weird

    arabella Ella: the passage of time ... fast ... slow ... or suspended

    Mickorod Renard: is it not relative

    arabella Ella: i dunno

    Zen Arado: it would be very difficult to sit silently for so long otherwise

    arabella Ella: yes

    Adams Rubble nods

    arabella Ella: but Zen does it take time to get into that 'mode of time'?

    arabella Ella: or is it immediate?

    Pema Pera: Hi Maggie!

    Zen Arado: but it is simply a construction we put on reality?

    Adams Rubble: Hello Maggie

    Mickorod Renard: hi Maggie

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Maggie

    Zen Arado: Hi Maggie

    Aurora Kitaj: Hi Maggie, nice to see you. Please take a seat:)

    Adams Rubble: Do you feel you drop time Zen?

    Zen Arado: takes me a day or 2

    Pema Pera: Have you been here before, Maggie?

    Zen Arado: second day is the worst

    arabella Ella: ok even on vacation it takes a day or two to get into vacation mood where concept of time changes too

    Pema Pera: sorry, was tring to remember, Maggie :)

    arabella Ella: may i ask Zen why second day is more difficult as i would av thought it would be progressive?

    Zen Arado: dont know

    arabella Ella: just asking how it feels ... if u wish ...

    Zen Arado: maybe because I dont sleep too well first night

    arabella Ella: ok i see

    Mickorod Renard: perhaps the expectation it will be worse than the first

    Zen Arado: just my experience

    arabella Ella: restlessness?

    arabella Ella: or not?

    Zen Arado: yes restlessness

    arabella Ella: ok i see

    Mickorod Renard: is the fountain supposed to be a box?

    arabella Ella: different mode of experience i guess

    Zen Arado: a 'slowing down'

    arabella Ella: yes

    Zen Arado: and when people return from a long retreat they have to readjust again

    arabella Ella: yes i can imagine that is not easy either

    Zen Arado: everything seems too fast and hectic

    arabella Ella: but how long is a long retreat if i may ask?

    Mickorod Renard: is there an aprehension when you get older that if you do not rush along then you will run out of lifespan too soon?

    Zen Arado: though I only do 5 day retreats

    arabella Ella: ok

    Pema Pera: hmm, it is very difficult to claim the chat log from the listener today . . . perhaps because the fountain is low?

    Zen Arado: it is happening to me I think Mick :)

    arabella Ella: and may i ask is it silence all the way through Zen?

    Adams Rubble: Interesting question Mickerod

    Pema Pera: sorry, I was trying to help Aurora, but can't claim now myself . . .

    Zen Arado: yes apart fro functional talk

    arabella Ella: ok cool

    Scathach Rhiadra: neither can I

    Zen Arado: asking someone to pass the salt etc

    arabella Ella: yes so no small talk then

    Zen Arado: no it would defeat the purpose

    arabella Ella: yes i can see that

    Zen Arado: you would bring the world with you

    arabella Ella: so do you see you can attain Pema's concept of zeroth time via meditation in a retreat?

    Zen Arado: it isnt an escape from life

    arabella Ella: no of course not

    Zen Arado: just seeing into yourself more deeply

    arabella Ella: it is re-gaining equilibrium

    Zen Arado: which is what we do here too I guess

    arabella Ella: yes

    arabella Ella: i guess so

    Pema Pera: sorry, can anyone detect the PaB listener?

    Pema Pera: sorry to interrupt, but we seem to have technical problems

    Scathach Rhiadra: no, it does not seem to be recording

    Zen Arado: I am a philosopher too Ara - I get too caught up in conceptes and thoughts

    Adams Rubble: It said it started when I came in

    arabella Ella: yes Zen i know exactly what you mean

    Aurora Kitaj: I hope that I haven't done any permanent damage to the recorder :(

    arabella Ella: i just hope you dont mind my questions as i am a very curious person

    Aurora Kitaj: ok

    Zen Arado: now I try to realie that they are useful but not 'real'

    arabella Ella: you mean questions or curiousity are not real?

    Zen Arado: good servants but bad masters

    Pema Pera: yes, Maggie, but I can't seem to find a way to click on it

    Pema Pera: I'll put in a service call to Wol Euler :)

    Adams Rubble: I am talking to her now

    Zen Arado: yes but the labels we pin on things are not real

    arabella Ella: yes

    Zen Arado: and we often think they are

    arabella Ella: they are all our constructs i think

    arabella Ella: like our concepts or our perceptions too

    Zen Arado: yes but we seem to get trapped in them

    arabella Ella: yes we do

    Zen Arado: we look at a rose and define it

    Zen Arado: but it is a very complicated thing

    Zen Arado: and interconnected with everything else

    arabella Ella: u can say that again

    Adams Rubble: It IS recording

    Adams Rubble: It seems the messages/error status os wrong

    Zen Arado: you know the zen example of a sheet of paper?

    arabella Ella: no i dont

    arabella Ella: could you elaborate pls?

    Zen Arado: it needs so many things before it can exist

    Adams Rubble: The log will be sent to Aurora when we are done

    arabella Ella: yes

    Mickorod Renard: yes,,i am intrigued too Zen

    Zen Arado: tsthe trees needed rain sun

    arabella Ella: true

    Aurora Kitaj: thank you so much Adams :)

    Zen Arado: invention of printing

    arabella Ella: yes

    Zen Arado: of papermaking technology

    arabella Ella: also

    Zen Arado: etc

    arabella Ella: and ink if the paper is to be used for communication

    arabella Ella: plus the skill of writing alphabet etc

    Zen Arado: yes it goes on for ever

    Pema Pera: sorry, Adams, the log will not be sent to Aurora if the log cannot be claimed by her

    Mickorod Renard: so we dont say the paper isnt rel,,but its reality is a sum of its past etc?

    arabella Ella: yes Zen and it shows the interconnectedness of everything that exists and how we attribute meaning to objects?

    Zen Arado: but we tend to stick labels on things that separate them from the rest of reality

    Adams Rubble: Pema, it is being sent manually :)

    Pema Pera: ah, okay! Thank you

    arabella Ella: argh Zen so many philosophy classes i attended come to mind ... smile

    Zen Arado: it is useful to reductively analyse things but we must remember what we have done

    arabella Ella: yes

    Mickorod Renard: is it a case of having to live with the labels,,except for moments like this or zen retreat time?

    Zen Arado: I think Hegel said something along those lines

    arabella Ella: i think we can learn as we do here to see different levels of significance

    Zen Arado: in Phenomenology of spirit

    Zen Arado: or was it \\heidegger?

    arabella Ella: not sure about Hegel ... Wittgenstein and Davidson come to mind ... but i think we should avoid theory here ... smile

    Mickorod Renard: hi medium

    Zen Arado: yes

    Zen Arado: or quoting philosophers :)

    Pema Pera: That was Hegel, Zen

    arabella Ella: cool

    Pema Pera: Hi Medium!

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello Medium, please come and take a seat, you would be most welcome to join us:)

    Zen Arado: he criticised sciens quite a bit if I remember correctly

    Zen Arado: science

    arabella Ella: i suppose w3e could ask ... not just whether we need labels ... but also whether we need language ... and whether we can think beyond the concepts we have in our language

    Mickorod Renard: hello medium

    Zen Arado: they are useful but we have to see throught them

    Zen Arado: we get trapped by them

    arabella Ella: yes but do you think that seeing through concepts still keeps us within the trap of our language and therefore is circular as language is still concepts?

    Mickorod Renard: the us military are experimenting with mind sent messages in the battlefield scenario,,to negate the neeed for radio

    arabella Ella: and does anyone here have experience of thinking 'outside' concepts and language?

    Aurora Kitaj: welcome back Medium :)

    Zen Arado: but when we start to think like that we are getting trapped again I think Ara

    Zen Arado: you do that when you meditate Ara

    Adams Rubble: Everybody, please look in your objects folder in your inventory and see if there is a "PaB listener there"

    arabella Ella: ok i see

    Mickorod Renard: ok

    Pema Pera: ah

    Pema Pera: Aurora clicked "take"

    Pema Pera: instead of claim

    Pema Pera: Aurora, you probably "took" the whole listener!!

    arabella Ella: i dont have it

    Zen Arado: nope

    Mickorod Renard: nope,,not me

    Pema Pera: do you know, Aurora, how to look into your inventory?

    Scathach Rhiadra: don't have it:)

    Tarmel Udimo: no I don't have it:-)

    Adams Rubble: ah there it is

    Maggie Rae: Adams, I have an object detector - the listener is below the pool marble

    Aurora Kitaj: yes, you are right! So sorry

    Adams Rubble: try claiming now

    Pema Pera: no, not your fault

    Pema Pera: "take" is similar to "claim" -- we should make the words more clear

    Adams Rubble: left click insteaad of right

    Pema Pera: very understandable mistake

    Pema Pera: YEAH !!!

    Adams Rubble: yay

    Aurora Kitaj: Just claimed it!!!!

    Scathach Rhiadra: yay:)

    Mediumflow Difference: :)

    Aurora Kitaj: THanks for your patience everyone:)

    Zen Arado: I am reading an interesting book about how emotions work with reason in decision making

    Tarmel Udimo: yeah!

    Pema Pera: np. Aurora, one problem less in the world !

    Zen Arado: 'The Decicive Moment'

    arabella Ella: which book is that Zen?

    arabella Ella: oh ok ty

    Zen Arado: Jonah Lehrer

    arabella Ella: sounds intruiging

    Zen Arado: there are many things we do that have to be done from our emotional instinctive brain

    arabella Ella: could you give some examples please?

    Zen Arado: like a quarterback making his decision who to pass to

    Zen Arado: he could never work that out logically

    arabella Ella: yes intuitive but based on prior experience

    Zen Arado: yes

    Mickorod Renard: would that be included in cybernetics?

    arabella Ella: or like a dog catching a ball in its mouth in mid air

    Maggie Rae: Human psychology is biased away from an accurate appreciation of probability and risk - an example is the 'Monty Hall' problem

    Zen Arado: our bain is very good at working things out based on previous experience

    Zen Arado: but it can fool us too

    Zen Arado: like people gambling

    arabella Ella: yes i strpongly believe that we do things intuitively but our intuition is shaped by our experience and knowledge

    Zen Arado: on slot machines

    arabella Ella: yes

    Maggie Rae: gambling whenthere is a business that depends on people gambling is a very odd human behaviour

    Zen Arado: thats as far as I have got

    Zen Arado: :)

    arabella Ella: fantastic stuff Zen thanks

    Zen Arado: there is a famous example of a man who lost the emotional area of his brain

    arabella Ella: yes?

    Zen Arado: could not make decisions about anything

    Mickorod Renard: but in respect to the brain being fooled,,well its only natural,,like as in pain

    Aurora Kitaj: that's very interesting

    Mickorod Renard: yes

    Zen Arado: would spend hours analysing all the pros and cons of everything

    arabella Ella: wow

    Zen Arado: lost his job, wife, everything

    Aurora Kitaj: but, I'm bound to wonder how this must effect autistic people

    Aurora Kitaj: who are often considered to be less empathetic than most

    Zen Arado: yes maybe that is pat of their problem too?

    Tarmel Udimo: how so aurora?

    Tarmel Udimo: can you tell us more

    Aurora Kitaj: perhaps empathy is separate from emotion?

    Zen Arado: they get lost in chains of reason don't they?

    Aurora Kitaj: well, I'm not aware that autistic ppl have problems in decision making mor than the rest of us

    Zen Arado: I dont know much about it Aurora

    Tarmel Udimo: I'm curious about [13:52] Aurora Kitaj: perhaps empathy is separate from emotion?

    Aurora Kitaj: There's no reason to suppose that this is true, its just

    Mickorod Renard: empathy: the power to put ones personality into the object of contemplation

    Aurora Kitaj: a question, given the example just given

    arabella Ella: perhaps emotion is involved in most of our decision making unless we build i skill to take decisions apart from emotion, while empathy is a different skill which one can attain?

    arabella Ella: and skills are gained with practice not with knowledge

    Zen Arado: i tend to think empathy is a natural faculty we lose when we separate ourselves from others

    arabella Ella: like the skills we attempt to build here

    Mediumflow Difference: But can we make reasonable decisions without any empathy with others (beings, animals, plants, things) around us?

    Aurora Kitaj: thank you ara, that's so true

    Mickorod Renard: maybe a natural faculty that becomes anethetised with repetition?

    arabella Ella: but it is difficult i find to put our emotions aside when we take decisions and not everyone is capable to doing so

    Aurora Kitaj: yes medium:)

    arabella Ella: capable of

    Zen Arado: yes or fear Mick

    arabella Ella: but ... i think ... empathy becomes anestitised only if we allow it to be

    Aurora Kitaj: so emotional intelligence might be the ability to use the power of empathy to decide on the best course of action

    Zen Arado: meditation helps us see through th fear and anger that separates us from loving others

    arabella Ella: or to harness our empathy as a skill perhaps?

    Zen Arado: I think

    Mickorod Renard: I think empathy can be more prevelent over a broader aspect of our lives if we had time

    Zen Arado: when we realise out interconnectedness we will naturally feel empathy

    arabella Ella: yes

    Aurora Kitaj: Can you give us an example Mickorod?

    Mediumflow Difference: Anthropologists speak of a natural 'mimesis' with the beings around us. Which we tend to lose.

    Mickorod Renard: I think the advances over the last hundred years have outstripped our evolution on a mindful basis

    arabella Ella: but although meditation is one route towards empathy i think there are others such as being compassionate for example

    Pema Pera is quietly taking off and saying goodbye

    Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)

    Mickorod Renard: bye Pema

    Tarmel Udimo: bye Pema

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema:)

    Aurora Kitaj: Bye Pema, and thanks

    Pema Pera: (not so quietly :)

    arabella Ella: bye Pema

    Mediumflow Difference: Bye Pema!

    Pema Pera: bye everybody!

    Zen Arado: technology has distanced us from our environment maybe

    Aurora Kitaj: thanks for everything

    Zen Arado: bye Pema

    Mediumflow Difference: Or, the other way round:

    Mediumflow Difference: we are still learning how to keep empathy via technology.

    Tarmel Udimo: yes I agree medium

    Mickorod Renard: most of human existance on the planet had been more sedatory,,not less work,,but less complicated

    arabella Ella: but are we here not using technology which enables empathy via SL?

    Zen Arado: in what way Ara?

    Tarmel Udimo: I agree arabella

    arabella Ella: i would not point fingers at technology

    Mediumflow Difference: I agree arabella!

    Zen Arado: yes maybe

    arabella Ella: there are other 'evils' which alienate us in my opinion

    Zen Arado: it can be ennabling too

    arabella Ella: yes

    Mickorod Renard: not at technology,,but the way we use it

    Zen Arado: I was thinking of the way it enabled western man to plunder the earth

    arabella Ella: every technology has advantages and disadvantages

    arabella Ella: everything is life has pros and cons

    Mickorod Renard: the more time we have to contemplate,,the more likely empathy shows through

    Zen Arado: instead of living harmoniously like the native Americans

    Adams Rubble: goodbye everyone. take good care :)

    Tarmel Udimo: bye adams

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams

    arabella Ella: bye Adams

    Zen Arado: bye Adams

    Aurora Kitaj: Bye adams

    Mickorod Renard: bye Adams

    Mediumflow Difference: bye adams

    Aurora Kitaj: thanks for coming

    arabella Ella: it would be great to be able to go back to a 'simple' life but how realistic or feasible is that?

    Tarmel Udimo: I was also curious about this [13:42] Mickorod Renard: the us military are experimenting with mind sent messages in the battlefield scenario,,to negate the neeed for radio

    arabella Ella: and technology enables so much good stuff too

    Tarmel Udimo: this is not technology and yet is it?

    arabella Ella: like medicine

    arabella Ella: innoculations

    Mickorod Renard: I am too tarmel

    Zen Arado: yes its the way we use it that is the problem I guess

    arabella Ella: yes ... like the way ppl use SL too ... may be good may be bad ... but who am i to judge?

    Tarmel Udimo: they have been trying for decades i think Mick?

    Mickorod Renard: I will try and find the information for you tarmel

    Zen Arado: yes Ara

    Tarmel Udimo: and wonder whether due its use they fail or are they successful?

    Tarmel Udimo: ty

    Mickorod Renard: yes,,but its diferent this time

    Tarmel Udimo: in what way?

    Mickorod Renard: ouch,,i will find the info,,but its not like remotes etc

    Tarmel Udimo: sorry folks didn't mean to stop the flow

    Aurora Kitaj: Tarmel, np

    Mickorod Renard: oh noo,,Ara has crashed

    Zen Arado: what is the difference between empathy ad compassion?

    Mickorod Renard: good question

    Aurora Kitaj: very good question

    Zen Arado: empathy is just feeling what someone else feels

    Zen Arado: compassion wants to do something about it?

    Aurora Kitaj: compassion perhaps is the one to go for when trying to consider the needs of someone who is going through something that you've never gone through before?

    Mediumflow Difference: It seems to me that empathy is on a more intuitive level; whereas compassions seems to need a certain decisiveness to act compassionately.

    Mickorod Renard: comp:-pity inclining one to spare

    Zen Arado: pity is compassion without empathy

    Mickorod Renard: perhasp

    Mediumflow Difference: Great, Zen Arado.

    Mickorod Renard: perhaps

    Aurora Kitaj: can you empathise with a snail?

    Zen Arado: looking down on someone and feeling sorry for them?

    Mediumflow Difference: With a snail? why not...#

    Aurora Kitaj: or can you have compassion for a snail

    Mickorod Renard: yea,,well put

    Aurora Kitaj: how can I know what a snail thinks or feels?

    Mediumflow Difference: I think I cannot feel compassion with a snail. Or do you?

    Mickorod Renard: I can

    Zen Arado: yes

    Zen Arado: or any insect

    Mickorod Renard: sometimes when I tread on one by accident

    Zen Arado: i would find it hardto kill a spider

    Scathach Rhiadra nods

    Mediumflow Difference: But this is all empathy, right?

    Aurora Kitaj: and yet I eat meat?

    Mickorod Renard: but I avoid treading on snails,,thus am compassionate

    Aurora Kitaj: Wb ara!

    arabella Ella: hiya apologies i crashed and had to re boot

    Zen Arado: so you can still feel empathy for little creatures scurrying about enjoying their lives

    Scathach Rhiadra: wb:)

    Mickorod Renard: hiya

    Zen Arado: wb Ara

    arabella Ella: technology and its effects ... smile

    Zen Arado: it is about interconnectedness again I think

    Mickorod Renard: zen,,what sort of things do you meditate on that swallows up the passage of time during your retreats?

    Mickorod Renard: do you loose your feeling of self?

    Mickorod Renard: and enter dream world?

    Zen Arado: well either just keep coming back to my breathing every time my mind drifts off

    Zen Arado: or practice a kind of open awareness

    Mickorod Renard: ok,,so more a focus?

    arabella Ella: interesting

    Zen Arado: just noticing everything going on around me

    Mickorod Renard: mmm,,that has been a quiz 4 me,,how to be open and free,,yet more focussed

    Tarmel Udimo: I have to go folks, need to do some building;-) nice talking to you all

    arabella Ella: bye Tarmel

    Zen Arado: it is more about coming back from the way the mind carries yo away

    Mickorod Renard: bye Tarmel

    Aurora Kitaj: THanks for coming along Tarmel

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye, Tarmel, see you soon:)

    Aurora Kitaj: :)

    Zen Arado: Bye Tarmel

    Zen Arado: the mind wants to be busy all the time

    Mediumflow Difference: Bye Tamel

    Zen Arado: it doesn't like to be still

    Mickorod Renard: yea

    arabella Ella: i think it is not easy ... yet not impossible ... to get our thinking to 'slow down' and get focussed on meditation

    Mickorod Renard: so its a refocus?

    Scathach Rhiadra: I have to leave too, great discussion, see you all soon:)

    Zen Arado: no the focus is ust a device to bring you back to here and now

    arabella Ella: bye Scath

    Mickorod Renard: bye scath

    Zen Arado: bye Scath

    Aurora Kitaj: Bye Scath

    Aurora Kitaj: thanks for coming along :)

    Mickorod Renard: wow,,is that the time

    Mediumflow Difference: bye scath

    Mickorod Renard: grin,,time vanishes

    Aurora Kitaj: :)

    Zen Arado: yep:)

    arabella Ella: may i ask one last question Zen please?

    Aurora Kitaj: listens

    Zen Arado: we feel so uncomfortable wit silence :)

    Mickorod Renard: yes

    arabella Ella: oh noooo .... silence .... yea silence is not easy

    arabella Ella: ok

    arabella Ella: what do you do Zen if you are getting some vegtables washed and a little insect crawls on to your kitchen top?

    arabella Ella: cos it happened to me today and i did nto know what to do and it was all so painful

    Zen Arado: I usually try to get them onto a piece of paper and throw them outside

    Mickorod Renard: I suppose vegitables were living once

    Zen Arado: big spiders are a problem though :)

    arabella Ella: ok thanks that is what i do with spiders generally

    Aurora Kitaj: lol

    Zen Arado: they move so fast :)

    arabella Ella: i dont mind spiders at all

    Wol Euler: afternoon all

    arabella Ella: but today's insect shocked me ... it looked like a baby cockroach

    Mickorod Renard: hi Wol

    arabella Ella: Hiya Wol

    Aurora Kitaj: Hello Wol

    Zen Arado: I make a funnel with a newspPERAND TRY TO GET THEN TO CRAWL UP IT

    Aurora Kitaj: nice to see you

    Mediumflow Difference: Hi Wol!

    Wol Euler: hello medium, nice to see you again

    arabella Ella: yes good idea ... thanks

    Mediumflow Difference: Nice to see you again.

    Zen Arado: oops caps sorry

    arabella Ella: no worries

    Zen Arado: Hi Wol

    Mickorod Renard: I had some spiders that jumped into your eye and bit it

    Zen Arado: don't like them running over my face when in bed :)

    arabella Ella: you mean you were breeding them Micko in a bath ... like a friend of mind was breeding crickets in his bath

    Wol Euler: intentionally?

    arabella Ella: )only joking)

    Wol Euler: whew

    arabella Ella: but yes my friend was really breeding cricklets in his bath ... true story

    Mickorod Renard: I have a friend,,who when we were kids fed spiders meat,,they got huge,,even though normally they wouldnt have

    arabella Ella: crickets

    Aurora Kitaj: to feed something?

    Mickorod Renard: well,,I guess i had best be getting on home

    arabella Ella: bye Mick

    Wol Euler: bye mick, enjoy your saturday

    Zen Arado: yes me too

    Wol Euler: and bye zen, take care

    Mickorod Renard: did u hear about the new meeting on sin and karma,,asturday

    Zen Arado: bye everyone:)

    arabella Ella: bye zen and thanks for all

    Mickorod Renard: thanks Wol

    arabella Ella: i must go too bye all

    Aurora Kitaj: bye ara:)

    Aurora Kitaj: bye Zen

    Mickorod Renard: thanks zen aurora medium

    Mediumflow Difference: bye ara, by Zen

    Mediumflow Difference: bye mickorod!

    Aurora Kitaj: Bye Mick

    Mediumflow Difference: :)

    Aurora Kitaj: Bye wol and Medium,

    Wol Euler: ok, I think we're done here.

    Aurora Kitaj: Nice seeing you

    Mediumflow Difference: bye Aurora, bye Wol

    Wol Euler: bye aurora, take care.

    Wol Euler: and you :)

    Aurora Kitaj: waves

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