2009.04.11 19:00 - Calm Purpose

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gen:)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Scathach :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Scathach and Genesis!
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Pema!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema
    Pema Pera: it must be late for you, no, Schathach?
    Pema Pera: 3 am?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it is, but I was up late anyway, so decided to stay up for the session:)
    Pema Pera: well, we are honored with your midnight presence!
    Scathach Rhiadra: 3 am:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Pema Pera: hi Steve!
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Steve!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Steve
    genesis Zhangsun: sometimes I love staying up that late and doing something like this
    genesis Zhangsun: very cozy :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it is nice now and then to do that:)
    Pema Pera: I was cozy for a whole week that way, but glad to get more sleep after that :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes every now and then
    genesis Zhangsun: Like the body art Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: same bod, Fael's tattoos
    stevenaia Michinaga: oh yes, thanks
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: must be spring time!
    genesis Zhangsun: why because the males start displaying brilliant colors :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, he has a man's and woman's version of it
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry I guess no one got it :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I did
    Scathach Rhiadra: I didGen:)
    Pema Pera: I think I did but now I begin to wonder
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Pema Pera: whether there was an even more sublte layer of meaning . . . .
    stevenaia Michinaga: but I was equally colorful late winter as well
    Pema Pera: migratory bird?
    genesis Zhangsun: well you know what they say about early bird :)
    Pema Pera: like worms, Steve?
    Pema Pera: Hi Pila!
    Pila Mulligan: hi everyone
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Pila!
    stevenaia Michinaga: dinner takes on a whole new meaning tonight
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila
    Pema Pera: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila
    I asked Pila about a recent conversation of him that I had read
    Pema Pera: Pila, I read in a recent chat log how you talked about the pros and cons of SL sharing of group's energy
    Pema Pera: that was a fascinating conversation
    Pila Mulligan: yep, isn;t it an interesting subject
    Pema Pera: how there may be factors making it easier and other factors making it harder
    Pila Mulligan: I'm intriguied by what might be a quasi-gestalt potential here
    Pema Pera: yes, nice term that
    Pila Mulligan: usually only available with phyiscal presence
    Scathach Rhiadra: um, what does it mean?
    Pila Mulligan: gestalt is a term used by Fritz Perls
    Pema Pera: oh, it was only six hours ago :-)
    Pila Mulligan: it refers to an situation where the enregy in a group exceeds the sum of its parts
    Scathach Rhiadra: ty:)
    Pila Mulligan: Perls said it usually arises in a group where there is divesitym and the gestalt is a kind of energy breaktrhough
    Pila Mulligan: to a common ground, with a multiplied energu effect
    Pila Mulligan: it is not uncomon in group meditationl, you've probably felt it without the name :)
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: also called synergy
    Pila Mulligan: yep, similar
    Pema Pera: so what we are missing is the physical presence, that is clear, but what could it be that we are gaining?
    Pila Mulligan: gestalt is actually more often compared to an argasm
    Pila Mulligan: orgasm
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Pila Mulligan: we are gaiing akind of insulation Pema :)
    Pema Pera: a kind of distillation of essence of some sort?
    Pila Mulligan: a freedom of expression behind a chosen image
    Pema Pera: and leaving out distracting bits?
    Pila Mulligan: :) sometimes
    stevenaia Michinaga: the diference between text-only chat would also be worth considering
    Pila Mulligan: yes indeed
    Pema Pera: a kind of poetic distillation, I sometimes feel
    stevenaia Michinaga: this being somewhere in between
    Pila Mulligan: my starting point in this has been the energy you feel arounda guru or good teacher
    Pema Pera: can't blabber on as much as in voice
    Pila Mulligan: maybe here, too, we have the familiarity that grows with a sense of community, frequent interaction
    Pema Pera: yes, there is definitely a kind of energy aspect, sometimes quite palpable, but "energy" is a tricky term to use . . .
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    genesis Zhangsun: shared co presence
    Pila Mulligan: but you can't miss the meaning aroound a guru -- yoou just feel it
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pila Mulligan: the high energy
    Pila Mulligan: hi fericious
    Ferocious Melody: Hello :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ferosious
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Ferocious
    Pema Pera: Hi Ferocious!
    Pila Mulligan: o*
    Pema Pera: Have you been here before, Ferocious?
    Yes, but in a different guise :-)
    Ferocious Melody: :) evening (is Eliza for those of you who don't know)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Pila Mulligan: Alt Dog
    Pema Pera: wb :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: stikes me that a simple word or question can ignite an evening from quiet to an energetic conversation
    Ferocious Melody: Thank you :) I meant to go large, but not quite this large
    Pila Mulligan: yep, Steve
    Pila Mulligan: just goes to show you even giants can be modest
    Pema Pera: :)
    Ferocious Melody: :) Ferociousy
    Ferocious Melody: *ly
    stevenaia Michinaga: I need a sence of scale
    stevenaia Michinaga: pet pet
    Pema Pera: ahhahaha
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: haha:)
    genesis Zhangsun: It is interesting to compare this group's presence with the presence of a guru
    Pema Pera: watch out now, Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: big god doggie
    stevenaia Michinaga: good
    Pila Mulligan: yes, genesis, that is exactly what intrigues me
    Pila Mulligan: how close can this environment get to that type of teaching?
    genesis Zhangsun: because with someone like a guru you assume in a way it is something they are "doing" or because of "who" they are
    genesis Zhangsun: are perhaps better more like what they are able to "see"
    genesis Zhangsun: collective seeing
    genesis Zhangsun: that is an intersting phenomenon
    Scathach Rhiadra: if it is real
    Pila Mulligan: a guru imparts energy direclty
    genesis Zhangsun: that it would have a presence of its on that it carries over to the next meeting
    Pila Mulligan: then explains it sometimes
    Pila Mulligan: or, Sai Baba, imparts watches :)
    genesis Zhangsun: but Pila "imparting energy" is a bit vague is there anyway we can define that further/
    Pila then shared a deep experience he had, decades ago.
    Pila Mulligan: well, Muktanada used to call it shakti, the given energy
    Pila Mulligan: I think there are different energies fo different gurus
    Pila Mulligan: the first timeI ever felt it was upon meeting Martin Luther king, actually
    Pila Mulligan: 1966, during a civil rights demonstration, where people were throeing rocks at us
    Pila Mulligan: and it was very tense
    Pila Mulligan: but he was not far away so I walked over to say hi
    Pila Mulligan: and within ten feet around him the entire sense of tension just disappeard
    Pila Mulligan: it went form turbulent to calm at that threshold
    Pila Mulligan: and since I've seen similar energy in gurus and teachers
    Pila Mulligan: so to me it is energy
    Pila Mulligan: but it probably needs more detail :)
    Ferocious Melody: ! Pila, thanks for sharing that :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: calm energy?
    Pila Mulligan: very :)
    Pila Mulligan: quiet beyond ordinary
    genesis Zhangsun: completely confident too I would guess
    Pila Mulligan: yep, in the sense of calm purpose
    Pema Pera: calm purpose is a great expression
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps the greatest
    genesis Zhangsun: it makes other feel as though the truth is beyond that one person it is just an inevitable conclusion
    Pila Mulligan: but you need to be personally present together to sense whatever it is, and that is the starting distinction with SL -- how close we can approach it with what we have here I don't know, but it is interesting for sure
    genesis Zhangsun: well I must get going
    Pila Mulligan: bye genesis
    Pema Pera: bye Gen!
    Ferocious Melody: Bye genesis
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry but RL calls would like to stay
    Pila Mulligan: happy Easter
    Pila Mulligan: happy Passover
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Gen
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pila Mulligan: and happy everything else it may be
    genesis Zhangsun: bye everyone!
    Scathach Rhiadra: may I ask Pila, why do you think that the 'energy' is not just in the mind of the deciple, a kind of endorphin effect?
    stevenaia Michinaga: just Happy
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Gen:)
    Pila Mulligan: I've never thought about it Scathach, I'm not sure
    Pila Mulligan: maybe because it is evidently palpabale among the group
    Pila Mulligan: so it is at least a group endorphin effect
    Pema Pera: I'm sure the energy, whatever it is, has side effects on the brain too, and on our whole body and mind
    Pila Mulligan: and it is memorable, as was mentioned before
    Pila Mulligan: the meory may be the best part
    Pila Mulligan: like finding your way back to someplace
    Pema Pera: sorry, I'll have to leave soon too. Thank you for yet another great conversation!
    Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
    Ferocious Melody: Bye Pema
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema
    It was time for me to go, so I will leave the rest of the session to speak for itself.
    Ferocious Melody: With many people stressful situations are what bring out that deep calm that is there..sometimes they only experience it while working, etc.
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema
    Pila Mulligan: happy everyhting
    Pema Pera: bye Schathach, Ferocious Eliza, Steve, Pila!
    Ferocious Melody: :)
    Ferocious Melody: :))
    Pema Pera: see you soon!
    Pila Mulligan: well, we mentioned earlier today how a disaster can bring people together, also
    Ferocious Melody: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if such individuals rise to such positions of leadership , through calm energy and clear minded vision to galvanize a group
    Pila Mulligan: some do, some retire to caves :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: caves?
    Pila Mulligan: the hermit
    Pila Mulligan: or monk
    stevenaia Michinaga: they do not become teachers
    Pila Mulligan: for indiviudals to whom the sharing with a group is less important
    stevenaia Michinaga: except to themselves and those who vist
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Ferocious Melody: And sometimes people are startled when such "leaders" are frail in other ways, which ties into something I heard earlier :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: can you say more?
    Ferocious Melody: I'm thinking of a few weeks ago, someone in a conversation said that if people read John Lennon's biography, maybe they wouldn't like his music anymore...
    Ferocious Melody: and I thought "How absurd." I don't need the man to be perfect to recognize and appreciate the gift
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Ferocious Melody: And so I'm thinking that sometimes energy is rather uneven sometimes....that with great figures we often expect so much.
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, though I don't think John lennon was ever portrayed, or portrayed himself as perfect:)
    Pila Mulligan needs to deal with a real life concern ... see you all next time
    Ferocious Melody: yes exactly. that also.
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pila
    Ferocious Melody: Bye Pila
    Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye
    Ferocious Melody: But there is this pattern in public life, of raising people up so high...
    Ferocious Melody: Hi Corvi :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Corvi
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, all.
    Ferocious Melody: So, it just seems to come up in a few places...and thinking about Pila's meeting Martin Luther King.
    Scathach Rhiadra: even more so in spiritual or religious cases, the guru can become very eleveated above their deciples
    stevenaia Michinaga: I often wonder about people's expectations not being met, as in the John Lennon book, seems so many are quick to judge
    Ferocious Melody: yes, absolutely
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems pointlesss to me, but must serve those who judge
    stevenaia Michinaga: they tend to judge their expectaions not being met, not the person
    Ferocious Melody: Hm, yes
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire wonders if that is a judgement?
    Ferocious Melody: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
    Ferocious Melody: And it applies to everyone, not just leaders. We expect our neighbor to be the person they were yesterday, etc. :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: jsut pondering expectations
    Scathach Rhiadra: and sometimes their expectations are that they can hand control of their 'journey' or 'path' over to someone else, and don't have to do anything themselves
    Ferocious Melody: ahh, yes.
    Ferocious Melody: So tell me, do you hear me different from this view? haha
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Ferocious Melody: I feel like I'm overly large for this sort of discussion :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
    Ferocious Melody: "Does a giant dog have buddha nature?"
    Scathach Rhiadra: well I saw the largest dragon the other day, have to get one:)
    Ferocious Melody: Korii?
    Scathach Rhiadra: no, bigger than hers
    Ferocious Melody: you're kidding!
    Scathach Rhiadra: no, it was huge and very colourful
    Ferocious Melody: wow...the first time I saw korri she dropped in at evening meditation at zen retreat and I couldn't take my eyes off of her
    Ferocious Melody: I'd love to see that
    Ferocious Melody: I need to go. I'm happy to have signed on tonight. Normally weekends are tough for that :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Ferocious
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: G'night, Ferocious.
    Ferocious Melody: Thanks. :) **hugs all around** Nite
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Glad to have met you.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Ferocious Melody: : )
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Fero
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, good night Steve, Corvi, Namasté
    stevenaia Michinaga: night
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice to see you again Corvi
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