2009.04.11 19:00 - Calm Purpose

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gen:)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Scathach :)
Pema Pera: Hi Scathach and Genesis!
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Pema!
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema
Pema Pera: it must be late for you, no, Schathach?
Pema Pera: 3 am?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it is, but I was up late anyway, so decided to stay up for the session:)
Pema Pera: well, we are honored with your midnight presence!
Scathach Rhiadra: 3 am:)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Steve!
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Steve
genesis Zhangsun: sometimes I love staying up that late and doing something like this
genesis Zhangsun: very cozy :)
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it is nice now and then to do that:)
Pema Pera: I was cozy for a whole week that way, but glad to get more sleep after that :-)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes every now and then
genesis Zhangsun: Like the body art Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: same bod, Fael's tattoos
stevenaia Michinaga: oh yes, thanks
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: must be spring time!
genesis Zhangsun: why because the males start displaying brilliant colors :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, he has a man's and woman's version of it
genesis Zhangsun: sorry I guess no one got it :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I did
Scathach Rhiadra: I didGen:)
Pema Pera: I think I did but now I begin to wonder
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Pema Pera: whether there was an even more sublte layer of meaning . . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: but I was equally colorful late winter as well
Pema Pera: migratory bird?
genesis Zhangsun: well you know what they say about early bird :)
Pema Pera: like worms, Steve?
Pema Pera: Hi Pila!
Pila Mulligan: hi everyone
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Pila!
stevenaia Michinaga: dinner takes on a whole new meaning tonight
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila
Pema Pera: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pila

Pema Pera: Pila, I read in a recent chat log how you talked about the pros and cons of SL sharing of group's energy
Pema Pera: that was a fascinating conversation
Pila Mulligan: yep, isn;t it an interesting subject
Pema Pera: how there may be factors making it easier and other factors making it harder
Pila Mulligan: I'm intriguied by what might be a quasi-gestalt potential here
Pema Pera: yes, nice term that
Pila Mulligan: usually only available with phyiscal presence
Scathach Rhiadra: um, what does it mean?
Pila Mulligan: gestalt is a term used by Fritz Perls
Pema Pera: oh, it was only six hours ago :-)
Pila Mulligan: it refers to an situation where the enregy in a group exceeds the sum of its parts
Scathach Rhiadra: ty:)
Pila Mulligan: Perls said it usually arises in a group where there is divesitym and the gestalt is a kind of energy breaktrhough
Pila Mulligan: to a common ground, with a multiplied energu effect
Pila Mulligan: it is not uncomon in group meditationl, you've probably felt it without the name :)
Scathach Rhiadra nods
stevenaia Michinaga: also called synergy
Pila Mulligan: yep, similar
Pema Pera: so what we are missing is the physical presence, that is clear, but what could it be that we are gaining?
Pila Mulligan: gestalt is actually more often compared to an argasm
Pila Mulligan: orgasm
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Pila Mulligan: we are gaiing akind of insulation Pema :)
Pema Pera: a kind of distillation of essence of some sort?
Pila Mulligan: a freedom of expression behind a chosen image
Pema Pera: and leaving out distracting bits?
Pila Mulligan: :) sometimes
stevenaia Michinaga: the diference between text-only chat would also be worth considering
Pila Mulligan: yes indeed
Pema Pera: a kind of poetic distillation, I sometimes feel
stevenaia Michinaga: this being somewhere in between
Pila Mulligan: my starting point in this has been the energy you feel arounda guru or good teacher
Pema Pera: can't blabber on as much as in voice
Pila Mulligan: maybe here, too, we have the familiarity that grows with a sense of community, frequent interaction
Pema Pera: yes, there is definitely a kind of energy aspect, sometimes quite palpable, but "energy" is a tricky term to use . . .
Pila Mulligan: yep
genesis Zhangsun: shared co presence
Pila Mulligan: but you can't miss the meaning aroound a guru -- yoou just feel it
Pema Pera: yes
Pila Mulligan: the high energy
Pila Mulligan: hi fericious
Ferocious Melody: Hello :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ferosious
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Ferocious
Pema Pera: Hi Ferocious!
Pila Mulligan: o*
Pema Pera: Have you been here before, Ferocious?

Ferocious Melody: :) evening (is Eliza for those of you who don't know)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pema Pera: ah!
Pila Mulligan: Alt Dog
Pema Pera: wb :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: stikes me that a simple word or question can ignite an evening from quiet to an energetic conversation
Ferocious Melody: Thank you :) I meant to go large, but not quite this large
Pila Mulligan: yep, Steve
Pila Mulligan: just goes to show you even giants can be modest
Pema Pera: :)
Ferocious Melody: :) Ferociousy
Ferocious Melody: *ly
stevenaia Michinaga: I need a sence of scale
stevenaia Michinaga: pet pet
Pema Pera: ahhahaha
Pila Mulligan: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: haha:)
genesis Zhangsun: It is interesting to compare this group's presence with the presence of a guru
Pema Pera: watch out now, Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: big god doggie
stevenaia Michinaga: good
Pila Mulligan: yes, genesis, that is exactly what intrigues me
Pila Mulligan: how close can this environment get to that type of teaching?
genesis Zhangsun: because with someone like a guru you assume in a way it is something they are "doing" or because of "who" they are
genesis Zhangsun: are perhaps better more like what they are able to "see"
genesis Zhangsun: collective seeing
genesis Zhangsun: that is an intersting phenomenon
Scathach Rhiadra: if it is real
Pila Mulligan: a guru imparts energy direclty
genesis Zhangsun: that it would have a presence of its on that it carries over to the next meeting
Pila Mulligan: then explains it sometimes
Pila Mulligan: or, Sai Baba, imparts watches :)
genesis Zhangsun: but Pila "imparting energy" is a bit vague is there anyway we can define that further/

Pila Mulligan: well, Muktanada used to call it shakti, the given energy
Pila Mulligan: I think there are different energies fo different gurus
Pila Mulligan: the first timeI ever felt it was upon meeting Martin Luther king, actually
Pila Mulligan: 1966, during a civil rights demonstration, where people were throeing rocks at us
Pila Mulligan: and it was very tense
Pila Mulligan: but he was not far away so I walked over to say hi
Pila Mulligan: and within ten feet around him the entire sense of tension just disappeard
Pila Mulligan: it went form turbulent to calm at that threshold
Pila Mulligan: and since I've seen similar energy in gurus and teachers
Pila Mulligan: so to me it is energy
Pila Mulligan: but it probably needs more detail :)
Ferocious Melody: ! Pila, thanks for sharing that :)
stevenaia Michinaga: calm energy?
Pila Mulligan: very :)
Pila Mulligan: quiet beyond ordinary
genesis Zhangsun: completely confident too I would guess
Pila Mulligan: yep, in the sense of calm purpose
Pema Pera: calm purpose is a great expression
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps the greatest
genesis Zhangsun: it makes other feel as though the truth is beyond that one person it is just an inevitable conclusion
Pila Mulligan: but you need to be personally present together to sense whatever it is, and that is the starting distinction with SL -- how close we can approach it with what we have here I don't know, but it is interesting for sure
genesis Zhangsun: well I must get going
Pila Mulligan: bye genesis
Pema Pera: bye Gen!
Ferocious Melody: Bye genesis
genesis Zhangsun: sorry but RL calls would like to stay
Pila Mulligan: happy Easter
Pila Mulligan: happy Passover
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Gen
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pila Mulligan: and happy everything else it may be
genesis Zhangsun: bye everyone!
Scathach Rhiadra: may I ask Pila, why do you think that the 'energy' is not just in the mind of the deciple, a kind of endorphin effect?
stevenaia Michinaga: just Happy
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Gen:)
Pila Mulligan: I've never thought about it Scathach, I'm not sure
Pila Mulligan: maybe because it is evidently palpabale among the group
Pila Mulligan: so it is at least a group endorphin effect
Pema Pera: I'm sure the energy, whatever it is, has side effects on the brain too, and on our whole body and mind
Pila Mulligan: and it is memorable, as was mentioned before
Pila Mulligan: the meory may be the best part
Pila Mulligan: like finding your way back to someplace
Pema Pera: sorry, I'll have to leave soon too. Thank you for yet another great conversation!
Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
Ferocious Melody: Bye Pema
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema

Ferocious Melody: With many people stressful situations are what bring out that deep calm that is there..sometimes they only experience it while working, etc.
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema
Pila Mulligan: happy everyhting
Pema Pera: bye Schathach, Ferocious Eliza, Steve, Pila!
Ferocious Melody: :)
Ferocious Melody: :))
Pema Pera: see you soon!
Pila Mulligan: well, we mentioned earlier today how a disaster can bring people together, also
Ferocious Melody: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if such individuals rise to such positions of leadership , through calm energy and clear minded vision to galvanize a group
Pila Mulligan: some do, some retire to caves :)
stevenaia Michinaga: caves?
Pila Mulligan: the hermit
Pila Mulligan: or monk
stevenaia Michinaga: they do not become teachers
Pila Mulligan: for indiviudals to whom the sharing with a group is less important
stevenaia Michinaga: except to themselves and those who vist
Pila Mulligan: yep
Ferocious Melody: And sometimes people are startled when such "leaders" are frail in other ways, which ties into something I heard earlier :)
Scathach Rhiadra: can you say more?
Ferocious Melody: I'm thinking of a few weeks ago, someone in a conversation said that if people read John Lennon's biography, maybe they wouldn't like his music anymore...
Ferocious Melody: and I thought "How absurd." I don't need the man to be perfect to recognize and appreciate the gift
Pila Mulligan: :)
Ferocious Melody: And so I'm thinking that sometimes energy is rather uneven sometimes....that with great figures we often expect so much.
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, though I don't think John lennon was ever portrayed, or portrayed himself as perfect:)
Pila Mulligan needs to deal with a real life concern ... see you all next time
Ferocious Melody: yes exactly. that also.
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pila
Ferocious Melody: Bye Pila
Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
stevenaia Michinaga: bye
Ferocious Melody: But there is this pattern in public life, of raising people up so high...
Ferocious Melody: Hi Corvi :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Corvi
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, all.
Ferocious Melody: So, it just seems to come up in a few places...and thinking about Pila's meeting Martin Luther King.
Scathach Rhiadra: even more so in spiritual or religious cases, the guru can become very eleveated above their deciples
stevenaia Michinaga: I often wonder about people's expectations not being met, as in the John Lennon book, seems so many are quick to judge
Ferocious Melody: yes, absolutely
Scathach Rhiadra nods
stevenaia Michinaga: seems pointlesss to me, but must serve those who judge
stevenaia Michinaga: they tend to judge their expectaions not being met, not the person
Ferocious Melody: Hm, yes
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire wonders if that is a judgement?
Ferocious Melody: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
Ferocious Melody: And it applies to everyone, not just leaders. We expect our neighbor to be the person they were yesterday, etc. :)
stevenaia Michinaga: jsut pondering expectations
Scathach Rhiadra: and sometimes their expectations are that they can hand control of their 'journey' or 'path' over to someone else, and don't have to do anything themselves
Ferocious Melody: ahh, yes.
Ferocious Melody: So tell me, do you hear me different from this view? haha
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Ferocious Melody: I feel like I'm overly large for this sort of discussion :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Ferocious Melody: "Does a giant dog have buddha nature?"
Scathach Rhiadra: well I saw the largest dragon the other day, have to get one:)
Ferocious Melody: Korii?
Scathach Rhiadra: no, bigger than hers
Ferocious Melody: you're kidding!
Scathach Rhiadra: no, it was huge and very colourful
Ferocious Melody: wow...the first time I saw korri she dropped in at evening meditation at zen retreat and I couldn't take my eyes off of her
Ferocious Melody: I'd love to see that
Ferocious Melody: I need to go. I'm happy to have signed on tonight. Normally weekends are tough for that :)
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Ferocious
Corvuscorva Nightfire: G'night, Ferocious.
Ferocious Melody: Thanks. :) **hugs all around** Nite
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Glad to have met you.
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Ferocious Melody: : )
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Fero
Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, good night Steve, Corvi, Namasté
stevenaia Michinaga: night
stevenaia Michinaga: nice to see you again Corvi