2009.04.16 13:00 - The Spike

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    The guardian for the session was Storm Nordwind. The comments are Storm's.

    This week the series of dialogues between Fefonz and Pema was interrupted, with Fefonz not getting away from a real life family commitment in time - although we only found that out as time went on! And although our conversation flitted between subjects, we had a ready-made theme that we could come back to, as Pema had just published a wonderful email on the Illusion of illusion (which he had finished with the question, "When Being invites us to play, how can we refuse?").

    aurel Miles: la la la
    aurel Miles: oops
    Storm Nordwind smiles
    aurel Miles: Hi Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi aurel
    Storm Nordwind: Welcome Pema!
    aurel Miles: Hi Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Storm and Aurel!
    Pema Pera: And hi Wester!
    aurel Miles: Hello Wester
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Wester
    aurel Miles: I don't see you
    aurel Miles: but i will take Storm and Pema's word for it that you're here
    Pema Pera: (approaching)
    Wester Kiranov: hi pema, storm, aurel
    Storm Nordwind: incoming!
    Storm Nordwind: Are we expecting Fefonz again today, maintaining the series of dialogues?
    Pema Pera: presumably
    Pema Pera: hi Mick!
    Storm Nordwind: Welcome Mick!
    Pema Pera: at least that was my understanding :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi mick
    Mickorod Renard: hiya Pema, Webs ,Storm, aurel
    aurel Miles: Hi Mick!

    Mick brings up an email that Pema sent to the Play as Being mailing list.

    Mickorod Renard: nice bit of mail today Pema
    Pema Pera: Thank you, Mick!
    Storm Nordwind seems to have a laggy connection... no groups and no about land title :-/
    Wester Kiranov: i thought so too
    Wester Kiranov: (about the mail)
    Pema Pera: thanks Wester!
    Mickorod Renard: I pasted it to my RL guru and am going out walking the dogs together tommorow with him
    Mickorod Renard: hopefully i will become enlightened
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Storm Nordwind: Are we talking about illusion of illusion here?
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Scath
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello all:)
    Pema Pera: hi Scathach!
    Wester Kiranov: hi scat
    Storm Nordwind is now down to single figures of unread emails, but that's one of them
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: yeah, it was a bit lengthy . . . .
    Wester Kiranov: i just read it right before i cam here

    Mick began to tell us about a kind of peaceful preparation process for creative activity.

    Mickorod Renard: I was just watching a program tonite on tele,,and this artist reminded me of how when u sit and make sketches etc you make time to be still and observe
    Pema Pera: stopping . . . .
    Storm Nordwind wonders what this "tele" is of which Mick speaks ;)
    Mickorod Renard: television
    Storm Nordwind has heard reports of such a device but has not witnessed one in person
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Wester Kiranov: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I had nearly forgoten about them,,but thios week I am alone,,and on holiday
    Mickorod Renard: so rediscovered it
    Storm Nordwind: You are welcome to visit me in Glasgow if you get fed up of walking with your guru! ;)
    Mickorod Renard: lol,,maybe next hols
    Mickorod Renard: tommorow its over this time
    Storm Nordwind: Next hols you'll have a 4000 mile flight not a 400 mile one!
    Mickorod Renard: well,,you never know
    Mickorod Renard: are you about sorted then,,for your move?
    Storm Nordwind: My future congresswoman has delivered :)
    Mickorod Renard: yeaaaaaa
    Pema Pera: As for Fefonz, I remember now that he has family visiting him, but that he thought that he would be free for this session -- I guess the family visit took unexpected turns

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    Pema Pera: yes, great news, Storm!!!
    Storm Nordwind: Then let us extemporise without him
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you Pema!

    Mick continues his ruminations.

    Mickorod Renard: I feel that the idea of the artist ,,purging away the usual busy thoughts of life in exchange for that peace whilst drawing is a good way of feeling being?
    Mickorod Renard: maybe I am wrong?
    Wester Kiranov: I guess it's a good start
    Storm Nordwind: I wonder if it's really being an artist though, or rather whether what this person did to "get in the mood"
    Storm Nordwind: If the latter, then anyone can do it, not just artists
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I was meaning the latter
    Mickorod Renard: just another way of relating to the feeling
    Storm Nordwind nods
    Storm Nordwind: Can you describe what this person did?
    Mickorod Renard: not really,,more reminded me of what it feels like to draw or paint,,something I stopped doing some years ago
    Mickorod Renard: I have too much noise in the head at the mom

    aurel shares with us an experience she had.

    aurel Miles: I remember one week
    aurel Miles: right before i changed my whole life, left victoria moved to ottawa, started university
    aurel Miles: i felt compelled to make art
    aurel Miles: so i just did
    Storm Nordwind: I know that feeling, yes
    aurel Miles: and it was the right thing to do - even though i did keep stopping myself and saying, this is dumb
    aurel Miles: what am i doing?
    Storm Nordwind: Sometimes it comes with music composing or songwriting too
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    aurel Miles: probably
    aurel Miles: it happens when you're singing a lot
    aurel Miles: that the top of your head just feels opened up
    aurel Miles: and this column of stuff - i think of it as sparks
    aurel Miles: flows down through your head
    aurel Miles: and out your mouth
    aurel Miles: and you couldn't stop it
    aurel Miles: even if you wanted to
    Mickorod Renard: never experienced that
    aurel Miles: really?
    Mickorod Renard: fraid not
    aurel Miles: join a choir - sooner or later it will happen
    Mickorod Renard: once when I was drunk maybe

    I thought perhaps this was similar to something I had experienced. But apparently not.

    Storm Nordwind: I have felt there comes a point of clarity...
    Storm Nordwind: totally unforced...
    Storm Nordwind: a flow from one place to another...
    Storm Nordwind: and you don't even think but you're the agent for expressing all this flow
    aurel Miles: i can't say but this feeling, for me, is one that is subtly different from that kind of opening to the flow
    Storm Nordwind: And then you look back and say "Did I do all that? Wow! How?!"
    aurel Miles: it requires you to break something in yourself
    aurel Miles: some kind of shell - and when you're in it yuo know for sure nothing could ever push you off course
    aurel Miles: the first time it happened for me, i was singing in a concert and i had been asked to stand underneath this iron crown of thorns
    Storm Nordwind: A shell? Some kind of resistance? Or protection?
    aurel Miles: the crown was a good 8 feet in diameter
    Mickorod Renard: or conditioning

    aurel explains a scenario almost like the "Sword of Damocles".

    aurel Miles: it was art in a cathedral
    aurel Miles: and i was underneath a spike
    aurel Miles: for the first part of the performance i was terrified
    aurel Miles: what would happen if one of the chains broke
    aurel Miles: that spike was taller than me
    Scathach Rhiadra leaves quitely, got something to do before Stim's workshop
    aurel Miles: it would have gone right through the top of my head
    Mickorod Renard: bye scath
    aurel Miles: bye scath
    Storm Nordwind: And all the ions off the sword tip were directed at the top of your head!
    aurel Miles: but i had to stay there, it was a performance
    aurel Miles: so i had to get comfortable with the fear
    aurel Miles: and then something broke
    aurel Miles: and instead of the fear and that intense feeling of vulnerability
    aurel Miles: i felt this column of light pour through the top of my head
    aurel Miles: anbd out to the audience

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    aurel Miles: and it changed everything

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    Mickorod Renard: I did sing once at a wedding,,kareoki...and i did a huge solo ,,just went for it,,everyone started joining in full time and I got a huge ,,whats the word,,well lots of cheers and claps
    Pema Pera: that must have been quite an experience, Aurel !
    aurel Miles: applause
    Pema Pera: hi Ari!
    Arisia Vita: Hi all....
    aurel Miles: it was - it changed things
    Storm Nordwind: Come join us Ari!
    Arisia Vita: thanks
    aurel Miles: Hello Ari!
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Ari
    Wester Kiranov: hi ari
    Arisia Vita: great to see you all
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,not seen you for a while
    Arisia Vita: I was probably hiding in the bushes... :)
    Mickorod Renard: not seen kori either

    Mick returns to the subject of Pema's thought provoking email on illusion.

    Mickorod Renard: so where do we go with the illusion of the illusion?
    Pema Pera: well, Wester read it most recently
    Pema Pera: do you have some comments, Wester ?
    Wester Kiranov: :)
    Wester Kiranov: (thinking)
    Wester Kiranov: it did sound a bit like ""hey you guys, I have found the answer to everything" at first, but you clariified that later.
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Wester Kiranov: And it did help me see better waht you mean with the movie metaphor
    Pema Pera: :)
    Mickorod Renard: sometimes when its in a relevent context it helps
    Wester Kiranov: the importance of engaging in the illusion, not just saying "it's all an illusion (so nothig matters, so I won't care)"
    Pema Pera: YES!
    Pema Pera: really going into it totally, that's so important
    Pema Pera: I'm learning that more and more, day by day
    Pema Pera: yes, without identifying
    Pema Pera: without getting glued to it, buying into it
    Wester Kiranov: you certainly express it more than you did a few years ago :)
    Pema Pera: (it = the usual interpretations)
    Pema Pera: hahaha

    Is it better to  be removed from a situation to get a sense of perspective? Or involved in it to get a sense of empathy? Or is that an illusory difference?

    Mickorod Renard: I am sure most of us here are well capable people in RL,,yet i find that because of this people put on me their problems,,which leads to my frustration,,,however,,if I can see that as an amusing illusion then it looks heaps better]
    Pema Pera: appreciation is key, and appreciation can have many sides, from amusing to deeply sympatico
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,its so much easier to cope with stuff when viewed from the outside
    Mickorod Renard: or above
    Pema Pera: how so, Mick?
    Pema Pera: as opposed to from the inside?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,its like stuff can be focussed on better from a lil distance,,rather than when you are suffocated by it
    Storm Nordwind: What is "outside"? Is there such a place? :)
    Pema Pera: but you can also get underneath somebody's skin, so to speak
    Pema Pera: really stepping in somebody's shoes
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure I do that
    Pema Pera: :) -> Storm
    aurel Miles: i think when you know it is not going to kill you
    aurel Miles: that yuo can go in
    aurel Miles: and come out
    aurel Miles: and still be whole
    Pema Pera: yes
    Mickorod Renard: but on your terms
    aurel Miles: that makes it possible to appreciate and engage
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Pema Pera: well . . . . . what are your terms Mick :-) ?
    aurel Miles: without being overwhelmed
    Mickorod Renard: that it doesnt upset my peace of mind
    Pema Pera: hmm . . .. .
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Pema Pera: what if it does?
    aurel Miles: but that is kind of what i mean

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    Mickorod Renard: then I go mad
    Mickorod Renard: joking,,sort of
    aurel Miles: i do not try to preserve my peace of mind
    Mickorod Renard: but it raises an interesting point
    aurel Miles: but i do remind myself that i will come back to me
    aurel Miles: and i won't die from experiencing that kind of engagement
    Mickorod Renard: I like to think i am compassionate and whatever
    Mickorod Renard: and to some degree have worried about loosing that emotional contact through becoming more ,,erm seeing through new eyes
    Mickorod Renard: I am a sensitive person,,and its said I have good instinct
    Mickorod Renard: I dont want to loose that
    Pema Pera: in some sense the point is to lose yourself . . . .
    Pema Pera: . . . . and then true intimacy can arise
    Storm Nordwind nods

    Meandering further into madness...

    Pema Pera: Sufi actually describe that as "mad"
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,seems a bit paradoxical
    Pema Pera: in poems about love and wine and all that
    aurel Miles: but you do come back
    Mickorod Renard: I have been described as mad too
    aurel Miles: we all come back from madness - it is not an absolute state
    Pema Pera: of course everything is always a matter of balance -- even loosing balance :)
    aurel Miles: not something you are or are not
    aurel Miles: yeah
    aurel Miles: when i forget that
    aurel Miles: fear takes the reins and i lose my way
    Pema Pera: motivation and intention are the best safety devices . . . probably the *only* ones
    aurel Miles: you can go crazy because you can and will come back
    Wester Kiranov: if the illusion of you and the other fades you can more easily see what is really there where you thought you and the other were
    aurel Miles: or go beyond - or whatever
    Pema Pera: yes, that's what I tried to point at with "Being Seeing"
    Mickorod Renard: howd u mean Webster?
    Pema Pera: letting go of your own seeing
    aurel Miles: it seems to me i am always trying to remember that whatever i am is not static
    aurel Miles: i am not stuck with one way of being forever
    Mickorod Renard: fluid?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Wester Kiranov: The idea of who you are gets in the way of seeing what this part of reaity you call "me" really is
    Mickorod Renard: I have managed to drop much of myself over last couple of years
    Wester Kiranov: I don't have nearly enough quote marks in the previous sentence
    Mickorod Renard: its dificult for some people to cope with the openness I now show
    Wester Kiranov: how is that?
    Mickorod Renard: I think so many people live behind viels
    Mickorod Renard: veils

    Such a true statement, but one that would have to wait for further discussion as the hour approaches fast.

    Wester Kiranov: (I will leave for Stims in about 5 mins, and I think some others might too)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,me too
    Storm Nordwind was just going to politely remind people that Stim's "Ways of Knowing" workshop will be starting in the Kira Cafe in a few short minutes!
    aurel Miles: can i wear my bunny suit?
    Storm Nordwind: You can ask Stim. I doubt he will mind!
    Wester Kiranov: maybe he has some monks outfit you could borrow ;)
    aurel Miles: i have another new outfit - maybe i will take a moment and change. Excuse me
    Pema Pera: isn't it interesting, Mick, to surprise people :)
    Pema Pera: can be a gauge of what you've learned
    Mickorod Renard: it is,,but I find that many have a deep set idea that anyone that is honest must be lying
    Storm Nordwind: So if we have come to a hiatus, I suggest all those who are going high tail it to the Kira Cafe
    Pema Pera: yup, see you there!
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,c u soon
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