2009.05.01 19:00 - Tribalism and the Yin brain

The Guardian for this meeting was Dakini Rhode. The comments are by Dakini Rhode.

Adams briefs me on guardianship technology and tax increases...

Dakini Rhode: hi :-)
Adams Rubble: Hello Dakini :)
Dakini Rhode: haha we both changed
Adams Rubble: yes. You look fabulous :)
Dakini Rhode: aw
Dakini Rhode: i pictured us sitting here in our red & blue gowns :-)
Dakini Rhode: hi Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Dakini, hi Adams
Eliza Madrigal: Evening Dakini, Adams, Pila :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza, hi Eos
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos
Dakini Rhode: not sure what i need to do technologically for this session :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Hello, friends
Dakini Rhode: hi Eos
Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, beautiful Blue Dakini
Dakini Rhode: hello eliza
Adams Rubble: You just need to left touch the little thing at the bottom of the fountain
Dakini Rhode: ty :-)
Adams Rubble: and then claim the session
Dakini Rhode: the listener master?
Adams Rubble: yes
Dakini Rhode: cool
Adams Rubble: It will send you a url when the session is done
Adams Rubble: and it will be formatted for the Wiki
Dakini Rhode: wonderful
Adams Rubble: just add a title and some comments and it is good to go
Dakini Rhode: perfect
Adams Rubble: If you click the fountain at the end of the session you can stop it and get an instant url
Adams Rubble: or if i goes on, you can go to bed and it will email it to you :)
Dakini Rhode: haha sounds easy enough
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't know that about getting the log instantly, good tip :)
Adams Rubble: they have added a 90 second stop every fifteen minutes
Adams Rubble: a 10% increase in our tax :)
Dakini Rhode: i was going to say...
Dakini Rhode: tax has gone up since i was involved
Adams Rubble: hehe
Adams Rubble: Hello Eos, I misssed you coming in
Eos Amaterasu: HI Adams.... I was just behind Eliza
Dakini Rhode: so you went from 9 sec to 90 sec?
Adams Rubble: just during the sessions
Dakini Rhode: ah
Dakini Rhode: it's 10:10
Eliza Madrigal: Not at the hour during session times though..for greetings
Dakini Rhode: where i am
Pila Mulligan: it seems to have a nice balancing effect
Adams Rubble: yes
Dakini Rhode: 10:10 is a significant number for me
Dakini Rhode: so many times when i look at the clock it's exactly 10:10
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-0
Eos Amaterasu: tax time
Dakini Rhode: i worked with a fellow from the deep south, and we loved asking him the time when it was 10:10
Dakini Rhode: because of the accent
Dakini Rhode: tin-tin
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Pila Mulligan: y'all got nuthin gns't sutheners, I see :)
Dakini Rhode: luvin' the diffrunces
Pila Mulligan: :)
Dakini Rhode: :)
Pila Mulligan: ah'm from the shallow south -- Kentucky
Pila Mulligan: way back when
Dakini Rhode: i should have asked you what time it was
Pila Mulligan: in anothe rlifetime :) (it seems)
Dakini Rhode: :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Pila Mulligan: tayyen tayyen
Dakini Rhode: haha that's it!!!
Pila Mulligan: now shuusssh fer a while
Pila Mulligan: there :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Pila Mulligan: now we kin rezuume
Adams Rubble: Funny how often it is quiet after he 9i0 seconds
Pila Mulligan: yep, inertia maybe
Dakini Rhode: reminded me how nice it felt to be quiet
Eliza Madrigal nods...like you have to get back to the top of the water
Pila Mulligan: :)
Adams Rubble: :)

Eos' Real Life brush fire situation...

Pila Mulligan: yesterday at this time Eos was in the moddle of a rea llife brush fire situation -- did it end yet Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, it's now contained, with the help of some rain today (tho combined with high winds)
Pila Mulligan: gald for the rain
Eos Amaterasu: 8 houses destroyed, about 1200 people had to overnight it elsewhere...
Pila Mulligan: ouch
Adams Rubble: wow
Adams Rubble: good that it is contained
Pila Mulligan: that's a disaster
Eliza Madrigal: Glad that it is contained, certainly. You said that your neighborhood was close-knit and helpful to one another?
Eos Amaterasu: Shakes up the city
Dakini Rhode: yeah it does
Dakini Rhode: Red Cross helping?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, there were all kinds of offers to help
Eos Amaterasu: People at community centers
Eos Amaterasu: Most are back to their homes now
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to hear
Eos Amaterasu: Losing your home is losing your "stuff".... back to scratch
Pila Mulligan: yep, trauma indeed
Eliza Madrigal nods .... Life can change in a blink
Eos Amaterasu: People were talking about losing their photos, memorabilia
Dakini Rhode: Red cross wll provide a little spending money - to get a new set of clothes, etc
Pila Mulligan: I think the photos and meorabilia may be the worst things to lose
Dakini Rhode: yes
Pila Mulligan: considering, of coure, no one was njured
Pila Mulligan: injured*
Pila Mulligan: konnichi ha Pema-san
Eos Amaterasu: Some pets didn't make it
Pila Mulligan: that's sad
Dakini Rhode: hi Pema
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
Dakini Rhode: that's sad
Pema Pera: Hi Dakini!
Eliza Madrigal: Aw, Eos
Adams Rubble: Hello Pema :)
Pema Pera: Hi Pila, Adams, Eliza, Eos!
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pema!
Pila Mulligan: last nite
Dakini Rhode: when my apartment went up in flames i couldn't find my cat for 3 days -- but, I found her alive and that made all the difference
Pila Mulligan: Eos ahd a fire
Pila Mulligan: in his neighborhood
Pema Pera: ah!
Pema Pera: must have been a shocking experience!
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, so you've been through this situation Dakini...wow. Glad that you found your cat :)
Dakini Rhode: me too :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: It must have been glad to find you too
Dakini Rhode: :-)
Pila Mulligan: is the brush still burning
Eos Amaterasu: It's contained, but there's still some hot spots - ground was very dry
Eos Amaterasu: Red flames were widely visible all night - quite an experience
Pila Mulligan: primal fear kind of thing
Dakini Rhode: shall i omit that from the log?
Pila Mulligan: the location?
Dakini Rhode: yes
Eos Amaterasu: I don't mind having it included... (?)
Eos Amaterasu: RL vs SL issue?
Dakini Rhode: i'm a bit rusty at this, i seem to recall some guidelines around mentioning RL identifying info
(note:  RL location omitted by Dakini)

Relating the brush fires to global climate change...

Pila Mulligan: some enws articles refer to rotting debirs from a last season hurricane as having provided fuel
Eos Amaterasu: That was "Hurricane Juan" from a number of years ago....
Pila Mulligan: ahh
Pila Mulligan: anothe rcommnet: "while we can't say positively that either the Porters Lake or the Spryfield fires were the direct result of climate change, we can say with much certainty that the frequency of warmer and drier springs is increasing because of climate change"
Eos Amaterasu: fundamental uncertainty increasing
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm
Pila Mulligan: there are many optimistic reports of measues that can be taken by humans to ameliorate climate change -- I hope they come to pass
Eliza Madrigal: :) brb...my tea is far too weak
Pila Mulligan: I just learned about this recently: "the so-called Great Pacific Garbage Patch - a heap of debris floating in the Pacific that's twice the size of Texas, according to marine biologists. The enormous stew of trash - which consists of 80 percent plastics and weighs some 3.5 million tons, say oceanographers - floats where few people ever travel, in a no-man's land between San Francisco and Hawaii. "
Adams Rubble: I have read about that too
Adams Rubble: Many people are denying that too
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch
Eliza Madrigal: That I'd never heard
Pila Mulligan: ahh, denial
Eliza Madrigal: 'out of sight out of mind'
Pila Mulligan: hi Scath
Adams Rubble: Hello Scath :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi there Scath
Dakini Rhode: wondering why the sea between SF and Hawaii is "no man's land"?
Eos Amaterasu: Something similar in Carribean as well
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello all:)
Dakini Rhode: hi Schath
Eos Amaterasu: (tremendous lag, my being is highly asynch :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Eos
Adams Rubble: I must go. Good night all and good morning Pema :)
Dakini Rhode: Pila made me google
Eliza Madrigal: Night Adams :)
Pema Pera: bye Adams!
Eos Amaterasu: 'night Adams
Dakini Rhode: night Adams :->
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams
Eliza Madrigal: heheh...Pila does that
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: http://science.howstuffworks.com/great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm -- this may expain the 'no man's land'
Pila Mulligan: explain*
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: Google is my favorite toy

Pema introduces the big question of the 21st century -- moving from tribalism to globalization...

Eliza Madrigal: Often it seems that situations like that remain because it would require a certain state taking responsibility and spending money to recover the situation...lack of cooperation/shared responsibility?
Pila Mulligan: so it seems, Eliza -- some denial, some lack of money, some lack of interest
Eliza Madrigal: So the garbage floats out there until it inconveniences someone enough
Pema Pera: the world is still far too compartmentalized
Pema Pera: there is no country that controls the sea
Pila Mulligan: a neighbor was speculating that a recylcing vessel could make a fortune there
Pema Pera: so nobody takes responsibility
Eliza Madrigal: it does seem that way, yes
Pema Pera: tribalism . . . .
Pema Pera: the big question of the 21th century is whether we can respect the good aspects of tribal culture and at the same time overcome the parochial limitations of tribal thinking
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: even the local stuff gets controlled remotely, so inconvenient effects get ignored
Pema Pera: yes, we have a schizophrenic relation with respect to globalization
Pila Mulligan: Wilhelm Reich wrote some about how modern hierarchy retains all the negative aspects of tribal power structres
Pema Pera: well, I think there are positive aspects too . . . .
Pila Mulligan: everything relates to getting close to the chief for favors
Pema Pera: in my own small way: I'm in Japan, studying the universe with Japanese colleagues . . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Corvi :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Corvi
Pema Pera: talking of which, I have to get going to a RL meeting
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all
Dakini Rhode: here's a quote that may be of interest, from a brain science researcher who just became 100 yrs old
Pema Pera: Hi Corvi, and goodbye :(
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, pema
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye Pema

The contribution of human brain function...

Dakini Rhode: The brain has two hemispheres” she says, “one ancient or archaic, which governs our emotions and instincts, the other younger, which governs our capacity to reason. Today the archaic brain tends to dominate. It is the cause of all the tragedies that happen
Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
Eos Amaterasu: bye Pema, hi Corvi
Pema Pera: bye everybody!
Dakini Rhode: bye pema
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema
Dakini Rhode: hi corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Dakini.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hi
Eos Amaterasu: Raven!
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Corvus corvax
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Dakini..i don't believe it about the archaic brain being the problem
Dakini Rhode: this was Rita Levi-Montalcini a global expert on the brain
Dakini Rhode: but do go on
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i think tht crazy new brain...telling us not to pay attention to all the rest...causes the tragedies.
Pila Mulligan: maybe each contributes good and part elements :)
Pila Mulligan: part good and part bad*
Pila Mulligan: one of them is surely a typo center :)
Pila Mulligan: 100 yrs old and still publishing -- that's respectable
Eliza Madrigal: Alas, this tea is not kicking in. My eyes are closing :) Nice to be here for your session though Dakini :)
Dakini Rhode: http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article6163496.ece
Pila Mulligan: sweet dreams Eliza
Dakini Rhode: nite Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Pila, everyone. Night. :)
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Eliza
Corvuscorva Nightfire: night eliza
Eos Amaterasu: :-) Eliza
Scathach Rhiadra: night all, Namaste
Corvuscorva Nightfire: night, Scath
Dakini Rhode: morning, Scath
Pila Mulligan: bye Scath
Eos Amaterasu: Good night!
Pila Mulligan: from the arcile, Dakini, this sounds like something Stim was saying yesterday:"“All the things that camouflage themselves as 'intelligence' and reasoning are in reality instinct - and low-level instinct at that.”
Pila Mulligan: Stim was referring to opniions in a smiilar manner
Eos Amaterasu: Financial greed is good example
Dakini Rhode: a couple of the things in the article got me thinking about the potential of meditation to change our brains, or at least how we use our brains
Pila Mulligan: yes, there is a close relation between what she wrote and some theories behind Chinese mediation -- but they are quite complex and not exaclty in line with her opnion
Dakini Rhode: it would be interesting to get a brain researcher and a meditation master in the same room
Pila Mulligan: essanetially, the idea is that meditation purifies the yin side and thereby relieves the yang sid eof compulasion
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Pila Mulligan: true
Corvuscorva Nightfire: like say..three and stim?
Pila Mulligan: indeed
Dakini Rhode: :-}
Pila Mulligan: but Threedee is a closet metaphysicist
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahah
Pila Mulligan: in my almost humble opinion
Corvuscorva Nightfire: shhhhh
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: He admitted as much, confidentially the other day
Pila Mulligan: aha
Pila Mulligan: well, there's a surprise :)
Pila Mulligan: so could he and Stim have a dalogue then?
Pila Mulligan: dialogue
Pila Mulligan: whatever
Pila Mulligan: actually, this may be where Stim's workshop is headed, sinsofar as he has science included in the later parts
Eos Amaterasu: Francisco Varela tutored Mingyur Rinpoche (one of Tulku Ugyen's sons): brain researcher + master meditator
Pila Mulligan: did they ever write together on this idea of meditation and brain function?
Eos Amaterasu: Well, Varela attended some of those dialogues, science + buddhism
Eos Amaterasu: Varela is dead, but Mingyur R is quite young, bright, interested in all this
Eos Amaterasu: I think they have to be the same person (brain scientist + meditator)
Eos Amaterasu: But also even "money" needs to get closer to Being - it's not just "numbers"
Eos Amaterasu: (unless you're a pythagorean)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Dakini Rhode: what do you mean by money getting closer to being, eos?
Eos Amaterasu: Well...
Eos Amaterasu: money tends to be "bottom line", just a number, which needs to be maxed
Eos Amaterasu: but money could also be measure of well-being
Pila Mulligan: money as a symbol of wealth, as Alan Watts said
Eos Amaterasu: money has been divorced from true value, and gone into accelerating abstractions
Eos Amaterasu: reason gone wild, and divorced from the earth
Dakini Rhode: isn't money symbolic of the resources at our disposal
Pila Mulligan: thanks for the link to the article about Rita Levi-Montalcini, Dakini -- it was an interesting read :)
Dakini Rhode: pleased :-)
Eos Amaterasu: It ought to be, but financial systems today build money from debt
Pila Mulligan: and from thin air too, it seems
Dakini Rhode: it's fake money
Pila Mulligan: yep, an illusion of wealth
Eos Amaterasu: there are alternatives, complementary currencies, such as the Terra, which would be based on a basket of commodities
Eos Amaterasu: cornucopia, where true wealth comes from: actual resources, and potential for same
Eos Amaterasu: that has the same feeling as "Being" as a kind of plenum of potential
Pila Mulligan: I suspect that almost any system of currency, incuding wampum, would work well enough if the policies governing it were not corrupt
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the rest, the other systems.."appearance?"
Corvuscorva Nightfire: no..our stories based on appearance.
Eos Amaterasu: perhaps, Corvu, appearances trying to outrace reality/Being
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Pila Mulligan: the anceint Chinese also saw the right brain situation Rita Levi-Montalcini referred to, but they described the problem differently
Corvuscorva Nightfire: in what way?
Pila Mulligan: to them everything was yin and yang, and the right brain was the yin brain
Dakini Rhode: her solution to the problem surprised me
Pila Mulligan: well, she was close, but not exactly on the same point as the old Chinse
Pila Mulligan: meditation would solve the problem, in their view
Pila Mulligan: easier, maybe
Dakini Rhode: how is that?
Pila Mulligan: well, she relies on the the reasoning, rational part of the brain ...
Pila Mulligan: the yang part to the Chinese
Dakini Rhode: yes, that's what suprised me
Pila Mulligan: but it is not a separate realm, it is conected to the yin part
Dakini Rhode: rather than balance
Pila Mulligan: and so by meditation, by urifying the yin part, the the reasoning, rational part becomes more lucid
Pila Mulligan: and works better
Pila Mulligan: and eventually transcends the duality by integration or unity
Pila Mulligan: in Being :) so to speak
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i like that solution better.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: for myself, anyway.
Pila Mulligan: simpler :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..the other..feels like stuffing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that feels like paying attention
Pila Mulligan: it may be a false hope that the rational alone can solve everyhting
Pila Mulligan: oops, pardon
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what seems to me true is that waiting around for my rational mind to figure anything out would take a loooong time.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and if i allow more information...i can use it to make better decisions.
Dakini Rhode: wondering whether the article portrays her theories well
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mm
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or if i am reading something into the article i've been thinking about today.
Pila Mulligan: yes, it was just one interviewer's report
Dakini Rhode: not a science mag, either
Dakini Rhode: i'm thinking this may be a night when i need to excuse myself and allow the Listener to run
Pila Mulligan: ok Dakini, nice to chat with you
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Dakini. I'm glad you will be here at this session regularly.
Eos Amaterasu: Bye, Dakini!
Pila Mulligan: have a nice evening
Pila Mulligan: it will turn itsel foff when we finish
Dakini Rhode: i've enjoyed our chat - thank you all and i'll be interested to read what else you all have to say :-)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Dakini Rhode: nite
Pila Mulligan: bye

Expanding the field of attention...

Pila Mulligan: you've been thinking about paying attention Corvi?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes, Pila, i have.
Pila Mulligan: care to say more?
Pila Mulligan: s'il vous plait
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles and thinks about what to say.
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, plz
Corvuscorva Nightfire: there is alot of information being collected and processed by our minds.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: very little of it reaching what i think of as rational, conscious, or verbal
Pila Mulligan: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: if i just use the information that i have there...i miss alot of important facts.
Eos Amaterasu: We can learn to be more open to access that (which doesn't rech the rational)
Eos Amaterasu: & if we don't see it (because the rational does n ot have the eyes with which to see it)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: right!
Eos Amaterasu: it becomes a shadow driving us without our kknowledge
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Eos Amaterasu: Nazis were very rational, organized, systematic, reasoning.....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that is a very well put way of saying what i decided to believe today.
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Eos Amaterasu: I like that: what you decided to believe :-)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: heheh
Pila Mulligan: this also relates to the theory of wu wei, if we can gather from that information (even or especially the pre-rational part) an accurate observation of the natural flow of things, and if we can harmoniously go with that flow, things get smoother in our lives
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Pila Mulligan: sometimes almost counter-rationally
Corvuscorva Nightfire: eventually, anyway.
Pila Mulligan: this is what i dislinke about the terms efficeint and effective
Pila Mulligan: they are such weak values, yet so parroted
Pila Mulligan: it they were truly referential to trhift and simplicty it wold be better, but they are buzz words for a culutre
Pila Mulligan: and it is a wasteful culutre using terms that are oxymoronic ni that conitext
Pila Mulligan: Pila's evneing rant :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Pila Mulligan: Hitler was *very* efficient
Eos Amaterasu: It's funny that at the peak of the rational we find thinkgs like the quantum. which somewhat defies straight-line rationality
Pila Mulligan: :) isn't ti
Pila Mulligan: it*
Eos Amaterasu: Re the wu wei following the natureal flow of things, lack of that results in garbage dead zones in ocean
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mm
Eos Amaterasu: we cease to pay attention eventually
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ook
Pila Mulligan: so it seems
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks..i think we do that in ourselves, too.
Eos Amaterasu: until we get hit on the head: for example, running out of unagi sushi :-)
Pila Mulligan: I don't really understand quantum stuff, but from my limited understanding of what I read, it reminds me some of the yin aspect of old Chinese thought
Pila Mulligan: so in that sense reaons led back to plain observation
Pila Mulligan: reason*
Pila Mulligan: for sceince that is
Corvuscorva Nightfire: i think..ya gotta see what is if you're gonna have much in the way of reason going on.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: doesn't do to play the game with stacked cards.
Eos Amaterasu: unexamined reason - is that what you mean?
Pila Mulligan: an interesting connection there with
Pila Mulligan: Pema's reference to tribal thgouht
Pila Mulligan: and the brain scintist article
Pila Mulligan: the shadow driving us without rational balance
Pila Mulligan: or corrupt yin, in the Chinese context

(Dakini thanking Pila for the session title...)

Eos Amaterasu: dionysus needs apollo
Pila Mulligan: well, at the risk of offending someone, did Jesus need Yahweh?
Pila Mulligan: Corvi, I hope your attention paying yields sweet fruit, and Eos, I hope your neighborhood recovers well and soon
Pila Mulligan needs to fix dinner :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at the goodbye
Corvuscorva Nightfire: enjoy
Pila Mulligan: thanks, aloha
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Pila
Eos Amaterasu: Reallly late here, so will also leave
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Thanks, Corvu!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: a delight to finally meet you.
Eos Amaterasu: quoth the raven, :-)
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.