The Guardian for this meeting was Adelene Dawner. The comments are by Adelene Dawner.
Adelene Dawner: Hello :)
Rish Bleriot: hello :)
Adelene Dawner: Here for the meeting?
Rish Bleriot: yep
Adelene Dawner: :)
Adelene Dawner: Have you been here before?
Rish Bleriot: yep ...once ...yesterday
Adelene Dawner: ah, cool :)
Adelene Dawner hasn't been coming very much recently.
Rish Bleriot: and ur an ...officer ... here ?
Rish Bleriot: sec
Adelene Dawner: We don't have officers as such, but I'm a member, and I'm Guardian on Call for this session, which is about as close to 'in charge' as we get. :)
Adelene Dawner: Hiya Pila! ^.^
Pila Mulligan: greetings
Pila Mulligan: how are you Ade?
Adelene Dawner: Good. :) I've been busy the last few weeks.
Pila Mulligan: that was an interesting gesutre by your avi
Pila Mulligan: maknig a circle with your hands
Pila Mulligan: typing?
Adelene Dawner: My new AO program tends to override the typing animation, so I added this, yeah. :)
Pila Mulligan: cool
Pila Mulligan: hi Rish
Rish Bleriot: hi Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Scath
Rish Bleriot: sorry was afk ... just came
Pila Mulligan: hi Vendy
Vendy Walpole: hello
Vendy Walpole: everyone
Rish Bleriot: hi vendy
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ade, Pila, Rish
Rish Bleriot: hello scath
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Vendy
Pila Mulligan: Rish, have you been here (SL Play as Being) before?
Rish Bleriot: once ..yesterday Pila
Pila Mulligan: ah, nice to meet you
Rish Bleriot: nice to meet u too :)
Adelene Dawner: So how is everyone? It's been a while since I've really been here.
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, we missed you Ade:)
Adelene Dawner: :)
Adelene Dawner has been busy, working on some neat projects.
Pila Mulligan: including making a SL university sim as I recall
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, how is the exhibition going, haven't gotten to see it yet?
Adelene Dawner: Yep, that starts beta testing sometime next week :)
Pila Mulligan: I love how your avi types Ade :)
Adelene Dawner: The exhibition seems to be going well - I need to go by and check with Nicolo, though :)
Adelene Dawner grins ta Pila :D
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: looks like a mystic conjuring up light
Adelene Dawner: hehe
Adelene Dawner: So what have you been up to here?
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pila Mulligan: me - same old chats and workshops
Pila Mulligan: Maxine's and Stim's workshops
Scathach Rhiadra: oh lots of sessions, as usual:)
Pila Mulligan: and usually this or the 1700 chat
Adelene Dawner: Any interesting topics?
Pila Mulligan: Maxine's dream workshop has kind of drifted into the Sunday session at this time
Adelene Dawner: Cool
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: for the past couple of weeks anyway
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, let me see, ..Dreams, Time, Illusions....
Pila Mulligan: Stims ethics workshops on Thursday are quit einteresting
Pila Mulligan: at Kira
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Vendy Walpole: but they are late for Europeans
Vendy Walpole: I am sad for that
Pila Mulligan: yes, SL timing can be tough Vendy
Vendy Walpole: can't it be changed, so we all could come?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes I am probably the 'earliest' European, and I find it hard going to stay so late
Pila Mulligan: late morning SL time seems to work okay for most time zones -- maybe tought for Japan and Australia
Pila Mulligan: :) (Squee)
Adelene Dawner: No matter what time an event is, it's always going to be in the wee hours for someone - and that's only going to get worse as more countries get more online.
Adelene Dawner: ([13:17] Squee: Had a life. Traded it for broadband.)
Vendy Walpole: but I have noticed that most of the schedules are according tio USA time, in SL
Pila Mulligan: probably in part due to SL time being a US time zone
Vendy Walpole: in different groups
Scathach Rhiadra: well, I think over 50% of residents are American
Vendy Walpole: probably, yet they know that whole world comes here and the goal is to keep people I guess
Pila Mulligan: but, as Ade noted, that propoprtion may decrease
Vendy Walpole: not only Americans
Pila Mulligan: another barrier is language -- it would be nice if SL had a good translator
Vendy Walpole: yes and ABC spell check :))
Pila Mulligan: :)
Vendy Walpole: the second even more needed
Vendy Walpole: haha
Pila Mulligan: then we would have to abandon our SL Typo Group :)
Vendy Walpole: I missed it, must join it
Pila Mulligan: its an imaginary group -- but 95% of SL avis are fictional members
Vendy Walpole: :)
Adelene Dawner: hehe
Pila Mulligan: any ideas for a chat topic?
Adelene Dawner: I got nothin' - Peer an I have beel talking a lot about some really deep stuff recently, so I may be chatted out. :)
Adelene Dawner: *been
Pila Mulligan: :)
Rish Bleriot: so ....
Rish Bleriot: do u think Pila ...
Rish Bleriot: that we might just be complicated computer programs running on organic robots ?
Pila Mulligan: wasn't that a movie? :)
Rish Bleriot: well .... its an intriguing idea
Rish Bleriot: even a possibility ..... even if it was a movie
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Pila Mulligan: I think it is an intriguing allegory to many people -- but personally it is not my opnion :)
Rish Bleriot: i mean ...
Rish Bleriot: think og it this way ...
Rish Bleriot: we make robots
Rish Bleriot: and we try to make puter programs that are intelligent
Rish Bleriot: not yet ...
Rish Bleriot: but we try
Rish Bleriot: so eventually ....
Rish Bleriot: we will get there
Rish Bleriot: and those robots will improve too
Rish Bleriot: become self replicating ...
Rish Bleriot: with real brains ...
Rish Bleriot: wont we set them on mars ? or some other planet ?
Rish Bleriot: which is hostile to us .... but ok for them
Rish Bleriot: and maybe ... mine it or smthn
Rish Bleriot: maybe we will mine them for experience
Rish Bleriot: the robots themselves
Rish Bleriot: its a possibility
Rish Bleriot: maybe we are like that .... to someone elsePila Mulligan: my guess is that while possibility exists, by the time it may be realized the context will be different from our present capacity to speculate
Vendy Walpole: I believe its possible
Pila Mulligan: as for us, I just do not see the possiiblity
Vendy Walpole: as some other theories
Rish Bleriot: so maybe we wld prefer to have a more contextually relevant topic .....
Rish Bleriot: ideas ?
Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, we all seem to be 'talked out', so to speak:)
Pila Mulligan: it is an interesting topic
Pila Mulligan: John Lily was the first person I know to offer a similar theory
Pila Mulligan: 35 years ago or so
Rish Bleriot: the theory has been around for a while ...
Scathach Rhiadra: but how woule e find evidence for it one way or the other?
Rish Bleriot: nuthn new abt it
Rish Bleriot: how indeed ...
Vendy Walpole: I must apologise...have to leave, sorry
Rish Bleriot: i guess we wld be programmed not to
Pila Mulligan: bye Vendy
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Vendy
Vendy Walpole: see you soon, bye
Adelene Dawner: See you :)
Rish Bleriot: bye vendy
Pila Mulligan: to me it reflects a common habit of people to extend metaphors into a contempoary cultural theme
Pila Mulligan: computer technology dominates our culutre
Pila Mulligan: so we speculate in that context
Pila Mulligan: but the speculation is not necessarily that related to the culutral image
Rish Bleriot: 35 yrs ago ... computers didnt dominate us so much
Pila Mulligan: Lily was ahead of his time :)
Rish Bleriot: and i suppose the idea is even older than that
Rish Bleriot: maybe not expressed ... but it may have existed ....unnoticed
Pila Mulligan: I tihnk people have always lloked for an underlying explanation of things
Rish Bleriot: yeah ...
Rish Bleriot: this idea tends to give god another name ...
Pila Mulligan: have you ever noticed how literature in the early 20th Century is packed full of train related metaphors?
Pila Mulligan: on the right track
Pila Mulligan: etc
Rish Bleriot: so maybe thats why it didnt see the light of day sooner
Pila Mulligan: that was the dominant cultural technology then
Rish Bleriot: hm
Rish Bleriot: well ...Pila ...dont think we willg et anywhere with this idea soon :))
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Rish Bleriot: so how abt we get more contextually relevant and discuss .... global warming ? :)
Pila Mulligan: personally I do not subscribe to it, but it is an interesting idea
Rish Bleriot: it is ...surely
Pila Mulligan: well, maybe stay with the same topic but shift it a little toward the tendancy to give god a name
Rish Bleriot: i mean ... in a few hudred years time ... we might be surprised to find that god is actually a programmer ....
Pila Mulligan: or a conductor :)
Rish Bleriot: possible
Pila Mulligan: ticket please :)
Rish Bleriot: i think he likes music :)
Rish Bleriot: oh ???
Rish Bleriot: lol
Pila Mulligan: I was still with trains :)
Scathach Rhiadra: or some of us might just be surprised to find a God
Rish Bleriot: heheh
Rish Bleriot: i was with mozart ...
Pila Mulligan: but music may be closer
Rish Bleriot: composer ...conductor ...and ... a programmer
Pila Mulligan: but we are of course perpetuating the idea of god as an entity
Pila Mulligan: an inddiviual so to speak
Rish Bleriot: yeah
Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, not me:)
Rish Bleriot: maybe he is a club ...
Pila Mulligan: in that case we probably have to deal with a lot of them
Pila Mulligan: yep :)
Rish Bleriot: comittee ?perhaps
Pila Mulligan: his arabella
Rish Bleriot: by the way we lapse into imperfections .... it cld be a committee
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone
Rish Bleriot: hi ara
Scathach Rhiadra: design by committee?
Rish Bleriot: yep
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara
Scathach Rhiadra: seems like they were not all on the same page
arabella Ella: Hiya Scath Rish Pila Adeline
Rish Bleriot: hi ara ... again :)
Adelene Dawner: hi :)
Pila Mulligan: for the sake of discussion I could be a polytheistic humanist
Pila Mulligan: in other words, there are lots of gods, but none of them exceed human nature
Rish Bleriot: but see ... the growing silence implies that some of us see this line of thinking as blasphemy :)
Pila Mulligan: yes, it is inviting of bitterness form some
Scathach Rhiadra: or the other way round, we are wondering, what God?
Adelene Dawner: pfffft
arabella Ella: may i ask what the topic u r discussing is?
Adelene Dawner: (@ Rish, that was)
arabella Ella: ooops shhhh apologies
Rish Bleriot: to be or not to be ara
Rish Bleriot: silence ...but why ?
Pila Mulligan: we are still kind of negotiating or dancing around a topic idea, arabella :)
arabella Ella: ok ty
Pila Mulligan: when there is a large crowd here and diverse chat lines the pause can help baalnce thiings :)
Scathach Rhiadra: 90 second timeout, micro-meditation to stop ...
Rish Bleriot: we were discussing if we really are ...or are we just a figment of god's imagination ...
Pila Mulligan: or something
arabella Ella: mmmmmmm
arabella Ella: intruiging topic
Rish Bleriot: or smthn else
Pila Mulligan: and Scath suggests the obverse
Scathach Rhiadra: Rish, you are not cynical by aany chance, are you?
Rish Bleriot: no
Rish Bleriot: just philosophical :)
Scathach Rhiadra: ah:)
Rish Bleriot: without scotch even ...
Pila Mulligan: cynicism is a vlaid element of philosophy :)
Scathach Rhiadra: trueAdelene Dawner: I just found something interestingly relevant, from MetaQuotes: I think MY metaphysical ideology is like a daycare where the floor is a little slanty. Some of the kids are kind of sad that it's crooked and they just want to whine for their mom or dad to come and get them, and some kids have decided that their parents probably don't exist because they haven't seen them lately and seriously guys the floor is slanted. But some kids don't know or whine or CARE when or if their mom or dad will come to get them ever BECAUSE HEY SLANTY FLOOR WHEEEEE
Rish Bleriot: yep pila
arabella Ella: if u r being philosophical you know that there are always two contrasting arguments for each position ... and no definite answers
Rish Bleriot: yeah ...thats why philosophers kept getting paid
Scathach Rhiadra: nice Ade:)
arabella Ella: and ... what's wrong with that Rish?
Rish Bleriot: if they had found us a solution ...we wld have fired them long back :)
arabella Ella: so you are a non philosopher yet tackling hard philosophical questions?
Rish Bleriot: good qn
Rish Bleriot: sort of ... i think
arabella Ella: :)
Rish Bleriot: so Pila ...whats the locus standii ?
arabella Ella: nothing wrong in thinking in terms of possibilities IMHO ... maybe this ... or perhaps that ... etc
arabella Ella: even science does not come up with definite answers to questions
Pila Mulligan: well, as a topic .... maybe what is real?
Rish Bleriot: sure ...good one
Pila Mulligan: gravity is real
Rish Bleriot: senses are limited ..... so what is real ?
Rish Bleriot: coz our perceptions and subsequent logic is based upon them
arabella Ella: that is a lovely philosophical way of putting it Rish :)
Rish Bleriot: if we take a look at pam andersen ....we cld debate otherwise
Pila Mulligan: last nite this lead to the idea of synthesizing neurology and meditation
Rish Bleriot: abt gravity i mean
Rish Bleriot: thx ara
Pila Mulligan: to me it is interesting that gravity is one of the most pervasive epxereinces least understood by scinece
Rish Bleriot: oh but the concept is well understood ...pila
Pila Mulligan: we not only sense gravity, we have to live with it
arabella Ella: really Pila ... could you go on please?
arabella Ella: do you mean cos wind or hurricanes or earthquakes or sea defy gravity so it is dependent on particular conditions?
arabella Ella: (or outer space too)
Pila Mulligan: I was reaidng somewhere that gravity is believed to hold space-time in a non-expanding state
Rish Bleriot: no ...
Scathach Rhiadra: universe is expanding
Pila Mulligan: frm wiki: "Modern physics describes gravitation using the general theory of relativity, in which gravitation is a consequence of the curvature of spacetime which governs the motion of inertial objects."
Rish Bleriot: yep
Rish Bleriot: but its a concept thats difficult to discuss here in the absence of writing/drawing materials
Rish Bleriot: gravity is the fabric on which stellar objects sit .... and the heavier the object is ...the more the fabric gets deformed
Pila Mulligan: but then gravity has a slightly different role and characteristics in the quantum field, as I understand it
Rish Bleriot: imagine a balloon ...
Rish Bleriot: thats the fabric
Rish Bleriot: curving in space and time
Rish Bleriot: and objects sit on it ....
Rish Bleriot: they deform it ...by their mass
Rish Bleriot: the deformation ....is gravity
Rish Bleriot: thats how its understood in relativistic terms
Pila Mulligan: so gravity is real ...
Rish Bleriot: and time warps can be understood too ...
Pila Mulligan: is not entirely understood
Rish Bleriot: thru that image
Pila Mulligan: if*
Pila Mulligan: what else is real?
Rish Bleriot: the more an object defrms it ....the more it tries to touch the other side of the balloon ...
arabella Ella: but then ... why do objects float in water?
arabella Ella: why is there no gravity in outer space?
Rish Bleriot: so instead of having to walk around the balloon ... which wld take a certain time ....
Scathach Rhiadra: low density
Rish Bleriot: u cld take a short cut ... right thru ...provided u had enuff gravity ...
Rish Bleriot: oh sorry ... i was lookng down :) and typing away
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: interestnig
Pila Mulligan: so time travel may be real
Rish Bleriot: it is
Rish Bleriot: try googling "wormholes" ...u will see
Rish Bleriot: its on wikipedia too
Rish Bleriot: based upon what i just told u ...
Rish Bleriot: problem is ... we just smart enuff yet ... to tap it :)
Rish Bleriot: *we are not
Pila Mulligan: are we smart enought to understand the ideas that created an image of god among our ancestors?
Rish Bleriot: fear ?
Pila Mulligan: perhaps
Rish Bleriot: lack of understanding ... we still dont have it
Pila Mulligan needs to meet a rl appointment soon
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pila
arabella Ella: supernatural events?
Pila Mulligan: thanks for the interesting chat everyone
arabella Ella: leap of faith?
Rish Bleriot: bye pila ...hope to see u again :)
arabella Ella: bye Pila
Pila Mulligan: aloha
Rish Bleriot: nuthn is supernatural ara ...
Rish Bleriot: is it ?
arabella Ella: maybe yes ... maybe no
Rish Bleriot: if it exists within nature ... cld it be supernatural ?
arabella Ella: depends on your beliefs and perspective
Rish Bleriot: its simply not understood
Rish Bleriot: for instance ....
Rish Bleriot: if we cld go back in time .... and show TV to a caveman ....
Rish Bleriot: he wld think its voodoo :)
arabella Ella: yes?
Rish Bleriot: ppl in a box !!!
Rish Bleriot: that talk !!
arabella Ella: but there you give an example with a product, an object
arabella Ella: the caveman has not got the concept of TV
Adelene Dawner: Interesting as this is, I need to get back to work. See you all later :)
Rish Bleriot: the concept applies to things that are not well understood
arabella Ella: just as we do not have concepts which ppl in prehistoric times had
Rish Bleriot: cya adelene
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Ade, great seeing you:)
arabella Ella: bye Adelene
Rish Bleriot: exactly ara ... and we have not got the concept of ghosts
Rish Bleriot: so they appear supernatural to us
Rish Bleriot: but maybe one day we will know how it works ?
arabella Ella: perhaps I do ... speak for yourself ... many ppl do
Rish Bleriot: so where do u think they come from ??
arabella Ella: when i speak of supernatural events i am referring to events such as what are considered to be miracles in the new testament
Rish Bleriot: like ?
arabella Ella: oh come on you know what i mean
arabella Ella: people with terminal illnesses with no hope being suddenly cured
Rish Bleriot: well .... im a thoroughly unreligious creature ara :)
arabella Ella: with no rational explanation
Rish Bleriot: not rational in the present context perhaps
Rish Bleriot: or the context of those times
arabella Ella: even medics often ceretify that there is no rational explanation ... or scientific either
Rish Bleriot: but maybe ... we will have the answers some day ...
arabella Ella: where are you Rish?
Rish Bleriot: but medics dont know everything ...do they ?
Rish Bleriot: where on earth u mean ?
arabella Ella: no one knows everything ... i doubt we ever will
arabella Ella: yes :)
Rish Bleriot: new delhi ...india
Rish Bleriot: and u ?
arabella Ella: malta
Rish Bleriot: well ... the frontiers of knowledge extend ... slowly ...
Rish Bleriot: we know more than we used to
Rish Bleriot: so extrapolating from that ... we will know more than we know now in future ?
arabella Ella: yes but there are some topics which the human brain may never be up to understanding ... like infinity for example
Rish Bleriot: or it might :)
Rish Bleriot: can we say we never will ???
arabella Ella: no ... never say never ... I used the word 'may'
Rish Bleriot: yep agree there .... neve say never
arabella Ella: but we do know that our brains have limitations ... as u said earlier
arabella Ella: mainly as Kant showed us
Rish Bleriot: but kant didnt know everything either
arabella Ella: that our brains cannot conceive of anything outside space and time
Rish Bleriot: no ... i wdnt agree
arabella Ella: i did not say Kant knew everything
arabella Ella: why not?
Rish Bleriot: he might be proven wrong ... some new abilities may surface .... the brain evolves too ...
Rish Bleriot: and then it is said we use just 10% of our brains
arabella Ella: yes
Rish Bleriot: so maybe some day we will use ...80-90%
arabella Ella: and we have more than 10 billion neurons in our brains :)
Rish Bleriot: and know more
arabella Ella: maybe
Scathach Rhiadra: good night, see yoy again
Rish Bleriot: nite scath
arabella Ella: bye Scath
arabella Ella: i must go too
Rish Bleriot: ciao ..
arabella Ella: nite Rish thanks for the chat
arabella Ella: ciao
Rish Bleriot: nite ara
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