2009.05.05 13:00 - The Purpose of Life

    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard. The comments are by Mickorod Renard.

    so,what are we here for?

    Mickorod Renard: do you think we all originated from one source,maybe africa?
    Rish Bleriot: thast what the news says
    Vendy Walpole: or from universe?
    Mickorod Renard: well, I guess you cant go wwrong with sayin we are from the same universe

    Vendy Walpole: what if we are controled by beings from universe and invented for their experiments?
    aurel Miles: Hello Fefonz
    Vendy Walpole: just one of possibilites...
    Mickorod Renard: well, anything is posible
    Fefonz Quan: which universe? (sorry)
    Vendy Walpole: thera are many others..
    Mickorod Renard: I sometimes wonder what our purpose is,,like perhaps for collecting raw information
    Vendy Walpole: this with galaxies, milky way etc...:)
    Vendy Walpole: good question...I wonder too Mick
    Fefonz Quan: ah, thia univers.
    Fefonz Quan: this*
    Mickorod Renard: maybe we are all connected to a central collection point of information gathering
    Vendy Walpole: sort of server, hug one...grins
    Mickorod Renard: for some higher purpose
    Vendy Walpole: which we are not avbe to understand even
    Vendy Walpole: able
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Fefonz Quan: some Scifi writers were entertaining this ideas
    Scathach Rhiadra: evidence anyone?
    aurel Miles looks around for a couple of white mice...
    Fefonz Quan: or a good joke :)
    aurel Miles giggles to herself
    aurel Miles: 42
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    Fefonz Quan: yep

    morphogenetic fields ?

    Rish Bleriot: are u familiar with the concept of morphogenetic fields ... propounded by Rupert Sheldrake ?
    Mickorod Renard: or maybe we are a secret weopon sent to distroy all life here,,we are doing a good job
    aurel Miles: i'm not
    aurel Miles: sounds like science
    Vendy Walpole: neither I
    aurel Miles: i think we are just part of the big picture
    Mickorod Renard: no,,sounds interesting
    aurel Miles: but we like to give ourselves airs
    Fefonz Quan: Rish, elaboratin?
    Mickorod Renard: fill us in Rish
    Fefonz Quan: +o
    Rish Bleriot: its the same theory ... that there is a central "server" absorbing info thru satellite terminals .... (us)
    Rish Bleriot: Sheldrake is a british scientist who did some experiments which even "prove" the existence of this network
    Fefonz Quan: as information sensors, we produce a huge amount of internal noise :)
    Rish Bleriot: its a lot to type .... but he put it all in a book called "the presence of the past"
    Vendy Walpole: prove Rish?
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Rish Bleriot: yep prove
    Mickorod Renard: another book to read
    aurel Miles: it's called God, I think.
    Rish Bleriot: he observed that once smthn has been learnt by a group of ppl ... it becomes easier for a larger group to learn it
    Fefonz Quan: well Rish we really like short summaries (fefonz thinks of the 10 books he is in the middle of)
    Rish Bleriot: so he devised some experiments to prove this point
    Vendy Walpole: like...example?
    Vendy Walpole: with the group
    Fefonz Quan: (since there are more teachers around?)
    aurel Miles: the theory of critical mass
    Rish Bleriot: and he beleives its a side -effect of leakage of knowledge from our "morphogenetic fields" which store all our experiences
    aurel Miles: proved with monkeys in japan

    aurel Miles: about 20 years ago
    aurel Miles: i remember

    aurel Miles: also - references Jung's theory of the collective unconscious
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, the monkeys on an island, learnt to use tools, then monkeys on mainland could use them too?
    aurel Miles: how, except semantically, is this different from the work that has gone before it?

    Rish Bleriot: smthn like that scath
    Mickorod Renard: cool
    Mickorod Renard: just checked,,that book is £15 second hand on amazon
    Fefonz Quan: and there is no communication that transfers that information?
    Mickorod Renard: will have to save up

    Rish Bleriot: word of caution mick .... its like reading atlas shrugged ...only 10 times more boring
    aurel Miles: it's an interesting phenomenon and it has been proven many ways - many times
    Scathach Rhiadra: :))
    aurel Miles: i'm not sure that means we are a comptuer network
    Rish Bleriot: no
    Mickorod Renard: lol,,maybe I will give it a miss
    aurel Miles: i'm sure we are connected
    Rish Bleriot: better than a simple network :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: didn't think anthing could be more boring than atlas Shrugged:)
    Fefonz Quan: So the ability to write non-boring stuff didn't pass the critical point :)
    Mickorod Renard: I think we are connected too,,but thats just my thoughts
    Vendy Walpole: I just got an idea...what if we are moved by thoughts as Honda managed to move ASIMO?
    arabella Ella: which book are you talking about?
    Vendy Walpole: the humanoid robot
    Rish Bleriot: of course we are Vendy ....
    Vendy Walpole: :)
    Rish Bleriot: the govt thinks for us :))

    Vendy Walpole: others thought
    aurel Miles: i have a copy of the journalist's legal guide if you're looking for something dull...
    arabella Ella: ok ty
    Fefonz Quan: how do you think you move your hand vendy?
    Vendy Walpole: you do not get my point
    sophia Placebo: hi alone
    Vendy Walpole: know about Asimo?
    Vendy Walpole: he is moved by other's thought
    Fefonz Quan: only the asimo.v version :)
    Vendy Walpole: as we can be by some higher intelligence

    Mickorod Renard: any more ide's on connectedness?
    Fefonz Quan: (only i can't see Gen?)
    Fefonz Quan: ok, clouding up...

    Vendy Walpole: of course, we are all just a part of oneness whateve rit can be called

    The phenomenon with the flying locus

    Fefonz Quan: There is some phenomenon with the flying locus i think
    Mickorod Renard: maybe of being too
    Fefonz Quan: where one locus (is it the right word?) has two modes of operation, alone and in the group
    Mickorod Renard: mm?
    Mickorod Renard: carry on Fef
    Vendy Walpole: can you explain it ?
    Fefonz Quan: dict. delay...
    Fefonz Quan: locust is teh right word.
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,the creepy flying things
    aurel Miles: the locust has a locus
    aurel Miles: ;)
    Fefonz Quan: at least i heard from one scientist, that by switching something on the back of it's leg, a single locust can go to the 'group mode', so teh whole group when it flies seems like one correlated big organism
    aurel Miles: (he does, though)
    Rish Bleriot: i think we lost our locus standii ...
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Rish Bleriot: but why just locusts fef ? the same wld apply to pigeons ...geese ...
    Fefonz Quan: and you can see a group of thousand of locusts turn together
    Rish Bleriot: herd mentality ...
    Rish Bleriot: it even applies to football fans
    aurel Miles: starlings
    aurel Miles: they even poop together
    Mickorod Renard: lemmings
    Fefonz Quan: geese, as i know (holgerson wise), fly in a big V, each one follow the one in front of him, this is different
    Rish Bleriot: lol
    aurel Miles: i have had to clean up my car after it
    aurel Miles: starlings are really fond of blackberries - did you know that?
    Rish Bleriot: what abt football fans ? one goes crazy .... they all go crazy ...
    aurel Miles: geese flock in vs
    Fefonz Quan: aurel, that is the influence of teh ether they are all surrounded by :)
    aurel Miles: but starlings fly in clouds
    Scathach Rhiadra: mob mentality
    aurel Miles: and so do pigeons
    Rish Bleriot: fish ...
    Mickorod Renard: and moths
    aurel Miles: big wheeling, synchronized clouds
    Mickorod Renard: bats
    arabella Ella: collective intelligence perhaps?
    aurel Miles: searching for blackberies and a pale colored car to poop on...
    Mickorod Renard: that was what we were thinking Ara
    Mickorod Renard: whether we are connected to a central ,,,thing
    arabella Ella nods
    Fefonz Quan: at least what i heard about the locust, is that you can see his mind 'switch' to a total different mode of action when in the group.
    aurel Miles: jung says humans share it
    Rish Bleriot: jung went to football matches im sure
    aurel Miles: big tottspurs fan.
    aurel Miles: hotspurs
    aurel Miles: no doubt.
    arabella Ella: collective intelligence is attributed to humans when they follow the crowd to adopt for example new technology as a crowd after the early adopter stage and after the technology has gone beyone the tipping point
    Fefonz Quan: this reminds me also about the explanation of why we sometimes 'jump' to catch teh bed just after falling asleep
    Mickorod Renard: so,,I wonder why,,if we are the same?
    Scathach Rhiadra: what about groups who seem to share or feed off each others religious, um, escasty
    Fefonz Quan: In india they say Mick: 'same same but different'
    Rish Bleriot: u wonder mick ? but if u did a DNA analyses .... theres a fleetingly small difeerence between ppl ....
    Rish Bleriot: even between species
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I read that
    Mickorod Renard: I have the science journal
    Mickorod Renard: incredible
    Mickorod Renard: one would think,,from what we discussed,,that we are programable?
    Fefonz Quan: but difference is not only genes. I can have _exactly_ the same PC like you Rish, but they have very different softwares and memory on them
    Rish Bleriot: yeah but the tech limitations of both wld be the same
    Fefonz Quan: sure we are mick. didn't you learn to read at school?

    Contagion, Virus, Communication or Survival or all

    arabella Ella: i think there must be some sort of contagion going on amongst human brains when something like a new technology or mobile phones are adopted on a massive scale ... or religions ... or popular tunes
    Mickorod Renard: well,,only just
    Mickorod Renard: how u mean Ara?
    aurel Miles: the zeitgeist, you mean?
    arabella Ella: more to do with diffusion of innovation ... oh ... shhh
    aurel Miles: you know - something that is fairly well known in communications theory etc etc
    aurel Miles: might be helpful here
    aurel Miles: you pick up a lot more than you realize you do
    aurel Miles: through overhearing stuff
    aurel Miles: seeing ads
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    aurel Miles: being exposed to cultural references
    aurel Miles: so by the time even the slowest of us
    aurel Miles: picks up a co puter
    Mickorod Renard: subliminal sugestion?
    aurel Miles: for example
    Fefonz Quan: co puter?
    aurel Miles: we already have a good idea of what to expect fro it
    aurel Miles: not anything sinister like that
    arabella Ella: yes and diffusion of innovation is used a lot for marketing
    aurel Miles: just the fact of being in the flow of life
    aurel Miles: it is not in the least
    arabella Ella: yes
    aurel Miles: mysterious
    aurel Miles: it would be weird if we didn't
    arabella Ella: it is not mysterious at all IMHO
    arabella Ella: it is part of what they call take up of new technology
    arabella Ella: or new products
    Mickorod Renard: but is it a freak of nature,,or by creation???
    arabella Ella: or services
    arabella Ella: no it is a natural reaction for humans mick
    aurel Miles: soooo
    aurel Miles: what's the point?
    Mickorod Renard: exactly
    arabella Ella: the point is ... contagion
    Mickorod Renard: now we are back to question one
    arabella Ella: influence from human brain to human brain
    aurel Miles: that's not a point
    aurel Miles: it's a condition
    arabella Ella: up to u what u wish to call it
    arabella Ella: for me a point is
    aurel Miles: no
    arabella Ella: this
    arabella Ella: .
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    aurel Miles: i'm not being judgemental
    aurel Miles: i am being factual
    arabella Ella: of course
    aurel Miles: saying the point is contagion
    aurel Miles: doesn't tell me anythiong
    aurel Miles: abuot what you are trying to say
    aurel Miles: it's like sticking your tongue out
    aurel Miles: so please elaborate
    arabella Ella: i was reacting to what Fefonz said about locusts and said it also applies to humans in some contexts
    arabella Ella: plain and simple
    Mickorod Renard: so,,,are we thinking that our ability to pick up information is like a virus,,or because we have a cause to do so?
    Vendy Walpole: must be a cuse, I believe
    Fefonz Quan: well isn't it primarily a tool for survival Mick?
    arabella Ella: i think there comes a stage when we do pick up info like a virus
    Mickorod Renard: maybe a curse
    arabella Ella agrees with Fefonz it is part of our survival kit
    Mickorod Renard: but we seem to be so sponge like it goes beyond the need for survival
    Fefonz Quan: our inability to sort out the irrelevant information, and our thinking that more is always better, i tend to agree is a kind of desease
    Mickorod Renard: more like something we were disigned to do,,collect information
    Fefonz Quan: maybe like with sugars, we were evolutionary planned for very different environment, and applied in our comfort abundant life this is the effect

    Intelligent design?  mmmm need to ask someone intelligent about that, not me

    aurel Miles: do you believe in intelligent design, then Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: I think I do
    aurel Miles: that's a radical thought
    Fefonz Quan nods
    aurel Miles: popular in the bible belt
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I bet its 50/50 in world thought
    arabella Ella: it is definitely one possibility
    Fefonz Quan: well 50% never read a book, at least
    Fefonz Quan: (just saying 50/50 is meaningless in that context)
    genesis Zhangsun: so you believe god fills in the holes where science cannot?
    Mickorod Renard: grin,,Fef, is that the side u think I belong to?
    genesis Zhangsun: this is my understanding of intelligent design
    aurel Miles: strikes me as interesting how we can get so close to the edge of fundementalism - can we be there without losing the ability to discern things sicentifically?
    Fefonz Quan: surely not Mick. (though if you'll continue with that kind of conclution deduction... ;-))
    Mickorod Renard: Well, I am not sure i have defined God yet in my own head
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Mickorod Renard: maybe he is a crazy scientist
    genesis Zhangsun: I think intelligent design sees god as a sort of master architect
    Vendy Walpole: has anyone defined God?
    aurel Miles: well - baptists in the u.s. see it as literalism
    Mickorod Renard: maybe in thier own heads
    aurel Miles: and defend it as such
    aurel Miles: legally
    Fefonz Quan agrees with Gen
    aurel Miles: in opposition to the theory of evolution
    aurel Miles: and my question is - can we play on the edge of that belief without choosing up sides?
    arabella Ella: quite a few religions today have no objection to evolution
    aurel Miles: i am aware
    Mickorod Renard: well,,what better wy to design something,,one that evolves when nesesary
    aurel Miles: i am talking about intelligent design
    arabella Ella: science does not explain everything
    arabella Ella: and another alternative would be a soup of chaos
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure , sensibly, that both sides can work together
    genesis Zhangsun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
    aurel Miles: maybe they can but historicall they don't - i draw your attention to the battles currently being waged in the schools of the central united states - where parents who believe in intelligent design are removing their children from sicence class.
    genesis Zhangsun: I suggest people read this before signing on to intelligent design :)
    aurel Miles: thanks gen
    genesis Zhangsun: yes the problem aurel
    Mickorod Renard: ok cool,,thanks
    aurel Miles: that's the point i am trying to make
    genesis Zhangsun: is that intelligent design proponents
    genesis Zhangsun: are claiming that their theory
    genesis Zhangsun: is on par with science
    Mickorod Renard: but that is extremism,,in my opinion
    genesis Zhangsun: and should be taught in schools
    genesis Zhangsun: but of course no one can prove intelligent design
    arabella Ella: exactly ... fundamentalism of whatever sort is always wrong and bigoted
    genesis Zhangsun: therefore it cannot be "scientific" as proponents claim
    genesis Zhangsun: as a belief system, why not
    genesis Zhangsun: as good of an explanation as any I suppose
    arabella Ella: i dont think everyone who believes in intelligent design would take such a stance genesis and auriel
    genesis Zhangsun: though seems quite simplistic to me
    Mickorod Renard: well, i had basic religious study at school,,nd it never determined which way one chose to follow,,,cience or design
    genesis Zhangsun: uh in fact arabella that is the whole history behind intelligent design it was stimulated out of a court case
    arabella Ella: i disagree gen
    arabella Ella: it may be so in some parts of the USA
    arabella Ella: but most european christians think otherwise
    genesis Zhangsun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_v._Aguillard
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps you are talking about something else arabella
    Mickorod Renard: In europe,,well the Uk,,we dont take anything serious
    arabella Ella: Gen i cannot open any other browsers while on SL but ...
    arabella Ella: dont forget wikipedia is not scientific information either
    arabella Ella: and it is user generated content ... users may have their own agendas
    aurel Miles: maybe we can take this opportunity to think about communication
    genesis Zhangsun: uh sure
    Mickorod Renard: how u mean Aurel?
    aurel Miles: we don't seem to have the basis for meaningful discussion on this issue
    genesis Zhangsun: but really I think most people would agree that "intelligent design" was something created by what is called the Discovery Institute in 1994
    genesis Zhangsun: it isn't an old phenomenon
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry got to go
    Mickorod Renard: thats true Aurel,,I think we have diversified

    Mickorod Renard: well,,that was a quick hour
    aurel Miles: yes - i should be off as well
    aurel Miles: dinner won't cook itself...


    Phew, that was a lively meeting

    Mickorod Renard: ok,,I have to go now Rish
    Rish Bleriot: bye Mick ...
    Rish Bleriot: was nice talking to u
    Mickorod Renard: thanks for commin tonite
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,likewise

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